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Page: 123
the happy man
the happy man

member
Location: Essex
Member Since: 17th Jun 2005
Total posts: 37
Posted:hey, can anyone help me?

what is an anti spin weave?

any tips on doing it?

thanks

chris


"were all in uniforms here and dont you forget it" Mr Zappa

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:interesting... those are different shapes from the ones i generally go for.

i generally try to take my antispin to star shapes (eg extremely thin petals)

taking that to an extreme, i'm very often aiming to accentuate linear isolations with [one big rotation:one small rotation] antispin
where ideally the poi head moves only in left + right axis, hand moves only in up + down axis, or vice versa. Like the stuff nix was chatting about ages ago.

at which point you could make a case for that not being "antispin" anymore, cos neither the head or your hand are going in a circle at all (though the poi is still clearly rotating, and it's centre of rotation moving contra)

Rev: what would you call an "isolated" antispin? What point are you isolating round? Where is the centre of rotation? How does it move? and other similar questions?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: Rev
more like pulling between stalls


That's how i teach antispin smile
Stall up, down, left or right, then come out spinning in the same direction that you started.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, there are two prizes up for grabs, the 5 beat anti spin and the clean turning atom weave.

first person to post a vid will get the prize


the turning atom prize has been going for 2 years + now!

my decision will be final.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: simian

Written by: Rev
more like pulling between stalls


That's how i teach antispin smile
Stall up, down, left or right, then come out spinning in the same direction that you started.



yep, i stole that method and have used it lots smile
it works a treat - nice one monkey hug

moving the pivot points of pendula is my other preferred way of explaining the motions required for antispin.

as for explaining how the weave works, i'm still looking for easy ways to teach that monster - i guess it'll be easier to explain after i've got what the hell is going on solidified in my own head... wink

oi tom!
how come you get the final decision on my prize suggestion?
your prizes were for a turning atom weave and the "first person to cleanly make a backwards butterfly go from front to btb to bth".
and now you wanna claim judging rights on the antispin one? umm
prize hogger tongue
its especially unfair seeing as you are favourite to win most of them anyway! wink hug


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:ha!

ok, your right, im glad, I didnt want to have to fork out for three prizes anyway....

Id forgotten about the butterfly one, I might have to put the provision on it that your hand positions must be thoes of normal reels, cos with skewed hand positions I taught about twenty peaple that move at the EJC. :P

as for winning, I cant claim my own prizes, otherwise the competition would be over by now! (yes, I have a solid, clean, true weave atom turning, woo hoo!)

I expected to come back to find a post of the vid and a claim, common guys!

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Anna-pananna
Anna-pananna

Thinking...
Location: Oxford
Member Since: 13th Sep 2003
Total posts: 179
Posted:I THINK I might've got the turning atom weave today....but I have many questions which I can't articulate here on the board due to my lack of terminology. And I would post a vid...but I don't know how yet (only just got my vid cam...still trying to understand how it works!). Is there a common mistake which I might be making which would make me think I've got it when actually I haven't? Whoops, SUCH a vague question.... And not much to do with antispin weave offtopic

Practice as if your hair was on fire...

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:lol,

yeah anna your pretty close, you got the planes, but not quite figured out the weave bit yet, once you get the vid up there will be a nice supreise in the post,

unless someone else gets there first....

(its the old technique, tell someone something you cant do and let them develope it for you)

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: simian


Rev: what would you call an "isolated" antispin? What point are you isolating round? Where is the centre of rotation? How does it move? and other similar questions?



the more petals you go for the more of a flower you are making and less weaving.. since the petals form by haivng higher poi circle to move circle ratios.. if you do it clean it should come out like the second diagram.. or the second diagram turned at some angle.. because essentially it will take those two beats to get around.. thus making a 9bt 5bt antispin and a 5 bt 3 bt antispin.. (though the 9bt 5btantispin can be cut down I think.. because I think you can lose some of the beats in the twist.. but I dont play with it enough to know.. )

isoalted antispin is what I'm doing.. why is it an isolation? because it uses a point isolatin and spins about a particular point whihc acts as a nonexistent center of spin..

[brief interlude for others- isolations take concentric spinning and put once circle inside another circle.. to act against each other.. reducing the whole motion to a single circle that appears to be centered on say the middle of the string.. thus giving it a nonexistant center of spin.. point isolations are isoaltions that reovlve around one of these nonexistant centers of spin called the point.. whihc can be anything or anywhere..

a nice example to help illustrate the point is how a full isolation is not a poi head sittign in the center of a circle.. but the hand spinning a giant circle -in the same timing- as a poi spinning its normal circle.. thus the poi is at the top of its circle when the hand is at the bottom of its circle.. and vice versus.. like spinning a flower in one poi beat.. whihc gives the illusion that the poi head doesnt move..]

why did I go into all of this? because I wanted to show that isolations were nothing more than flower petals.. to isolate around a point is to put a petal at that point.. granted yeah there's more nitpicky details.. but I'm trying to convey an idea here not rewrite physics or anything..

since when you look at an antispin weave it makes the cateye like diagram number 2, you can see that to isolate this move about the same point, you have to exagerrate the petals to both engross the same point.. and exagerrating betals isnt hard.. the more slack you give to thepoi, the further itwill spin in that direction.. thei tighter you pull the sharper it will spin..

[GRRR I cant really describe what I want as an example here.. so Iyou'll have to wait on a clip.. but the point I'm trying to make here is that you can alternate the tension on a tring so that as you spin a large circle to go into say a stall, you can stop the hand early whihc will cause the poi to start spinning a tight orbit rather than sort of freefalling.. and as soon as it does the bottom arc in that circle you cna again release the tension on the string .. and the poi will make a petal.. depnding on how you alternate the tensions and what not.. depends on the size and speed of the petal.. ]

well what I'm doing is exagerrating the poi petal orbits.. to try and condense them like in the drawing.. this is somethng I noticed a was a lot easier to folloow with head poi and not body poi.. body poi does give the look and feel of an isolated weave.. but head poi make the clear distinct ovals.. like in diagram 4...

All of this is why I said the term isolating the antispin weave could be misleading.. because we typicaly think of islotaltions in such a way that the poi and the hands follow the same circle.. but that only works with a half iso.. and anyone who has tried to play with near full isolations has most certainly gotten into the wobble of speeding up and slowing down or adding/removing tension to the string to match the orbits up.. its all crazy timing drills if you ask me.. kinda like hybrid spinning only on one poi if that makes sense..

now that that has been discussed.. yes I feel you on the perpendicualr movements.. it feels liek you bob your hands up and down and the poi left and right.. whihc is why for a while I jsut wondered if antispin was just the result of perpendicualr spin (whihc is why it crosses at top and bottom).. but then I found that trying to convey that concept was more hassle than it was worth..

but think of it like this... when you weave, you dont really move in circles.. you can weave just my moving your hand left and right. and I know that here we are talking about something slightyl different.. this is just one side of the eeave not the whoel weave motion.. but I think the same thing applies.. you have to make an oval.. your hands moving up and down are really moving in a slight ellipse( is that the right word?) and its kinda like the butterfly being the smae plane.. no matter how much it looks like it is, it isnt spinning the smae plane.. just some really close aprpoximation.. (trying to avoid using calculus here). this is the same thing I think.. whihc is why you can have your hand at 12:00 and the poi at 9:00 and then your hand at 6:00 and the poi at 3:00.. and the poi patheth from 9->3->9 is a slight ellipse and so is the hand going from 12->6->12
all the moving of the hands though masks the ellispe a little since you dont have to dodger an arm that is always sitting in the center.. but until you get to the poi of a straight whip motion.. your still going to be antispinning.. wink

nix- video will come eventually.. someoone will probably beat me to it since I have tons of thesis work.. but all the answers one needs to perform the 5bt antispin are in the inversions thread.. I think.. or is that just the 5bt inversions?? damn.. now I dont remember.. but I know you and I have talked about the 5bt and where it passes in another thread too.. but I have no idea where that was.. lost to time I suppose..

even if I did make a video it would be horribly sloppy.. the timing on the crossover kills me.. maybe I should just make one of those slow step by step clips and let someone else do it wink

and as far as a clean turning atomic weave.. what's the stipulations? is an atom an atom or do I have to do it with all those proper planes? because I can do an atomic weave using wall and wheel planes.. but that's not the 45 to everything that arashi talks about..

and am I even eligible for this since you and I have talked about this all before.. some of it a year ago or more no? perhaps this one should go to another..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:read and understood (i think) smile

i like your "point isolation" term. i never got that before.

but my antispin weave doesn't make a catseye shape at all.

and my hands aren't describing even a slight ellipse when i try to do linear isolations. If anything, they're describing a diamond with the sides curving in as opposed to out.

You can make a little loop at each point, or you can make it exactly that: a point.

The different ways of accentuating the movement of either centre of rotation seems to create wildly different shapes using the same basic pattern.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:just a quick post, was trying to do 5bt antispin earlier, and i reckon i can have it nailed by the end of bristol, dosnt seem as crazy hard as i thought...

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo rev, I mean any atom type, its just got to be a full turning weave without breaking the planes, I do the vertical atom, but thats cos its easier that way (for me)

maybe with horisontal planes it might work diffrent, like a weave corkscrew hybrid, but you should be able to run it both direction continiously without breaking the atom or bringing it inside.

oli- if anyone can do it you can, lets have ya!!! (cough up cole!!!)

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:I can cleanly turn atomic weaves... I cant, however, get a video of it. Suppose I shall go prizeless. Meanwhile, since we're talking about unmet challenges, mine still stands.. Ill even add a prize. Goes to anyone who gets a video of a tangle with point isolations.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:HAHAHAHAHAHA.. I'm retarded..





My diagrams are wrong.... that's a forward petal made less bubbly.. I'm glad you followed.. but wow.. that was off.. yes I see your diamind.. but mine is just the cateye ellipse.. the stall is at the top and bottom.. imagine the right side of the ellipse being like this ) even though the poi is spinning like this ( in its arc relative my hand..

I think..



I dunno.. I've confused myself... all I know is that I'm making ovals.. for all I know that could be the overlap of the poi arcs.. left side ( and right side )..



people need to call me on this crap.. I gotta go do yard work.. frown.. I'll fix the picutre later..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1126741939)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:icon, both points?

just one wouldnt be too bad, but both??? hummmm

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:both would only be possible if both were the same point i think, which probably ends up being easier and uglier with respect to getting into and out of it.

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:nah I believe icon brought this up before.. it would be INCREDIBLY hard, but possible none the less..

theory pt1- the buzzsaw flower.. you can take a buzzsaw and move its center of spin in a direction (as seen in te picutre nix posted) and make a flower.. why is this cool? because it makes petals.. why are petals cool ? because they make point isolations..

theory pt2- the tangled buzzsaw flower.. take a tangle.. move the nexus in circular in a direction.. and voila tangled buzzsaw flowers.. so now we have tangles making petals.. thus we have the oppertunity for the the tangles to make point isolations..

challenge- (if I remember right), do a point isolation on the head of one poi.. whihc in effect means that the nexus has to move around the taret poi head in the same amount of time as it takes the other poi head to complete one normal tanlge revolution..


now maybe mikey has gone soft and let that drop to a simply any point isolation with a tangle.. but I mean.. if your going to go for it.. why sell yourself short wink


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: [Nx?
]
yeah, there are two prizes up for grabs, the 5 beat anti spin and the clean turning atom weave.

first person to post a vid will get the prize


the turning atom prize has been going for 2 years + now!

my decision will be final.

T wave



well someone has all the tools they will need to claim your prize... my helpful hint, complete with goof ups, is roughly as follows: (right cick save as.. you know the drill)
5bt antispin motions
I go through the hand motions really slowly.. using lots of extra beats..
5bt antispin weave it is what it is..
some 5bt atomic weaveage yeah its not clean.. but icon can do it now.. so let him clean it up.. I've got thesis work to do..
some slow 5bt atomic weavage here's it nice and slowly.. you can see my wobbly wheel plane at the beginning.. and some normal spin stuff before I go the other direction..


oh and while I'm uploading little tidbits.. here's an offtopic bonus..
4bt btb corkscrew


sorry icon.. still no help on your challenge.. wink


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

Delete

MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yeah, nice work on those two Rev. I think Im coming close to getting the point isos on the tangled buzzsaw. Im gonna have to try it with some other sets of poi cuz I think my current setup is whats screwing me... Too much friction, not enough weight.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Wow, super, I checked it soon and tell you.



PS:The Atomic thingie is nice. smile



:R

EDITED_BY: Richee (1127229327)


POI THEO(R)IST

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:so my antispin weave has four beats not three frown

its basically a condensed 4-petal antispin flower that weaves umm

its definitely not a weave properly antispun nor can i get it to to look like ed's or rev's ultratight versions frown

request for a private session on antispin weaves at play please ed hug


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:are all weaves not like flowers condensed down? my antispin weave is definetly like a condensed down 3 petal flower.. and i reckon you could argue a normal 3 bt weave is like a flower with a turn with three (or no petals..??) petals... that was how the theory was working in my mind anyway...

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:"are all weaves not like flowers condensed down?"

they are indeed - as you just showed, the idea is less intuitive when applied to 'normal' spinning but it still holds.

i just can't for the life of me work out how to reduce the antispin weave i can do down to 3bts... frown


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:all the beats happen in the same place as they would do with a normal weave, keep your hands constantly moving like when you do a weave, dont do lock outs like a flower.. and im geussing you extra beat is when the poi is on its own side.. practise spinning forewards moving from your arms crossed (on your right side) right over left.. bring your right arm all the way around your left arm (keep it still, dosnt even need to be spinning a poi) so it ends up on the other side of your body(crossed underneath your left arm, all in one beat. .. eeek sketchy description :o hope it helps anyway, good luck. shall be much spinning sometime soon i reckon ubbrollsmile

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:much appreciated oli - the extra beat is exactly where you thought it would be smile

that description is great and i reckon practicing the 1bt transition without a poi in the other hand is exactly what i need to do...

look forward to playing again soon hug


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:having trouble d/l'ing your vids rev?

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:would love to see these, or in fact any other anti spin vids. links are dead..

Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:saw garthy yesterday and he says my anti-spin weave has 3 beats smile



turns out, i just can't count.



i think i've said that somewhere before, but its even more true now tongue





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Yakumo, you could try this vid where Ed LTC does some lovely tight antiweaving in a lift.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Page: 123

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