• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Forums > Social Chat > The Delusions Fire Peeps Keep

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:So, I have been talking to some friends lately and am very disappointed in fire people's attitudes on the whole lately.

First of all, the people who are getting involved are getting younger and younger, which is cool. That I don't have a problem with. But I do have a problem when the kids tell the parents, "Oh this is safe. I can even do it at school for the talent show." Yeah...ummm..right.

Then there are those who have been doing this awhile, friends whom I love dearly, who think that because they spin in their backyard that they don't need safety. This pisses me off to no end. They would rather suffer burns, or burn down a property, rather than spending $20 on a fire extinguisher and a wool army blanket. It's positively insulting.

And my least favorite comes from the idiots who burned 5 people in a bar recently because they saw a fire breather and thought they could figure it out, because "It's so easy."

A. With all the talk of insurance lately I need to say, if you are safe and careful, you won't need to use the liability insurance (the kind that covers everyone else) you should have if performing. Make sure your health insurance is in order. Insurance will not save your arses if something does burn down, it will only HELP cover it if it does.
Use a fire blanket and extinguisher every time you spin with fire! Try to have someone nearby, who knows how to use them, to make sure everything is safe.

B. Just because someone else can do it, doesn't mean it is easy or that you should. Take the time to research and figure things out. If it is worth doing, then it is worth the time.

C. And this one is the most important in my book:

NOTHING WE DO IS FOOLPROOF!!!! We play with fuels and fire, fire is not safe and combined with fuel it is just damn stupid! There are ways to make it safER, certainly. Do not delude yourself into thinking that spinning is accident-proof. Do not relax yourself into the "It'll never happen to me" mentality because the minute you do this, you lose your edge on what is safe and what is not.
We are not clever because we figured out how to do this stuff. We are not the coolest people on the planet because we can do something that makes other people go "OOOOOHHHHH". We risk our health, the well being of those around us and the property we are on everytime we light up. We are stupid. But we don't have to prove it by being unsafe and thoughtless.

*Previous message is the viewpoint of Pele only, and does not reflect the views of Malcolm, Charles, Flash Fire or Home of Poi. Previous message is intended only in regards to FIRE use and not any other form of twirling (though maybe beeming balls could come under this warning! ).*

[ 27 October 2002, 18:53: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete Topic

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Thx Pele, I think that needed to be said. I wish there was a way to reach all the newbies who've
never been here too!


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Celeste


member
Location: Birmingham, Ala USA

Total posts: 48
Posted:Amen sister! Say it loud!

Life is serious, but art is fun!

Delete

FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Pele:
my least favorite comes from the idiots who burned 5 people in a bar recently because they saw a fire breather and thought they could figure it out, because "It's so easy."yo Lynne,

got a news article on this i can have? or tell us about it, please?

thanx for the mention, hadn't heard of this case,

~ Mikie


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

Delete

Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Hey Pele, thanks for saying so succintly what I have wanted to say for a long time. We can make firearts safer, but we will never make them safe.

I'm gonna gross people out here. Have you ever gone out to a big gathering, done some twirling, and then when you got home blown your nose? Look in the hanky/tissue, I can guarantee there will be black bits. Just like smokers, we have to accept that we are inhaling dangerous substances. We have chosen to take the risk, and we should do it armed with all the facts and accepting of it. I love firetwirling, but I know it is affecting my lungs, even if I can't tell just now.

And firebreathing. You can take safety precautions that make it safer, that protect you and those around you from certain types of injury. But you are holding chemicals in your mouth, even if you don't swallow any, you will absorb it through the tissue in your mouth. And taking a mouthful of milk beforehand may make it taste better, but it ain't gonna stop it.

I am not saying don't do it. Just do it in full knowledge without deluding yourself.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Delete

Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Begins stapling Pele's words to everyone's forheads.

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

Delete

Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Amen again, Pele.

That post re-iterated a number of things I've said in various threads. It's not about how safe it is, its about how to MINIMIZE the risks.

Sometimes people forget that fire is something that can get out of ocntrol and kill thousands of people if given the chance. Never feel complacent about using fire, always stay wary.

Yay, Pele!


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Delete

VAMPIRO


member
Location: leicester

Total posts: 7
Posted:had to be said well put pele
i started twirlin about a month ago only recently lit up had all the safty gear but about 2 weeks after i started (got my staff) i caught my litle cousin with it when i got in from work although he had no fuel he was trying 2 light it up(boy did i give him a tellin off) cuz hed seen me practicing he said he reconed he could do it better even though he knew id bee workin my arse off practicing and still hadnt lit up. he thought he coukld just pick it up lit it up and he be fine hes 16 and at that age i would of thought he would hav known better...(i thank god that my fuel was behind a locked door otherwise i would have never forgiven myself)...a bit 2much of a close call for me but he wont be playin with fire for a while beleave me.


Though a pretty face is all they seeA tortured sould you are to meJust touch the darkness deep insideWhere all the hidden demons hide

Delete

Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:You know what i found out the other day??

A half hours twirling is equivalent to sticking your head next to a car exhaust for the same amount of time.

Food for thought....

I'll be spinning with a face mask on from now on methinks. No such thing as too safe.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Word Pele.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:quote: A half hours twirling is equivalent to sticking your head next to a car exhaust for the same amount of time. woah????

where did you hear this?


Delete

Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:from someone who had done a lot of research into it! (juggleart actually, and considering they supply fire gear and fuel, its a pretty big thing for them to say....)

Think about it tho, we spin burning petroleum fuel around our heads. Thats carbon monoxide and all the other lovely chems that burning fuel produces... We increase our heart rates, and air intakes because its excercising, so we are sucking more of the stuff in. It deprives the brain of oxygen, and you dont notice it.... thats part of the reason its such a rush! just like petrol sniffing.... and its addictive.... not just because of the fact that spinning is fun either....

Ever woke up the morning after a great burn, feeling like you've smoked a carton of ciggies and drank a slab of beer??? now you know why.....

[ 28 October 2002, 13:10: Message edited by: Flynt ]


Currently on the right side up of the world.

Delete

bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:so what do juggle art say about firewater then?

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Delete

Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:same thing bender, that it is a petroleum fuel, and it will do the same thing to you

Whats that chick at juggleart, the really nice one? we must have talked to her for like, an hour on sat, and some of the stuff she said just blew me away.....


Currently on the right side up of the world.

Delete

Distorted Silence


member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 217
Posted:Yeah around the second time i went to juggleart (back in the day, now its like where I waste my time all the time)

and I mentioned me firebreathing, I got THE LECTURE.

Not only do the fuels kill brain cells, but they kill liver cells and a whole bunch of other cells, which have been linked up to cancer and a whole bunch of other nasty stuff...

I firebreathe on rare occasions now, maybe once every three months... And its still bad for us...


You've got to move fast to beat the Devil - Your arm's too short to box with God.

Delete

Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:you got the lecture too huh Olga? hehehehe, so did i, but i also got a juggling lesson, so it evens out......

dont think i;ll ever be firebreathing now tho...


Currently on the right side up of the world.

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Flynt's been so lovely to me lately that I'd hate to disagree with her BUT...

I can't see how someone could possibly say that about it being equal to being next to an exhaust for a given length of time with any certainty.

Among my reasoning:
-Different cars give off radically different exhaust fumes, depending on the age of the car and fuel used.
-Different twilring fuels have different byproducts and different purity.
-Cars have catalytic converters which chemically destroy much of the harmful byproducts of combustion which poi don't.

Not to bash anyone but I've never heard of anyone in the fire industry actually doing much scientific research. Anyone who suggests that sticking your head next to the combustion of gasoline which has been filtered through a catalytic converter is equivilant to twirling combusting kerosine is comparing apples and oranges. And by putting a time frame next to it, it (30 minutes/30-minutes) suggests accuracy which is irresponsable. Unless they've got their own underground animal research facility and have done some serious LD-50 tests on the two with large numbers of rats, rabbits or mice, I can't see how they could come to that conclusion.

It's certainly a good thought to realize and respect that we are breathing in toxic fumes. But for a nonscientific institution to make an impossible to prove claim like that makes us science kids weary. No two toxins in the body would be equivelant. They both affect different organs differently.

Any scientific statement that is one sentence long is wrong because nothing in science is that simple.

"Oversimplification Kills"


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:NYC thank you so much for your input!!! xoxoxo

im actually doing more research into it myself, it just seems a little weird that its not something thats mentioned often.... I had honestly never thought about what i was inhaling while spinning, i always assumed because i was in an open space, and only doing it for short bursts of time, than it wouldnt really be that detrimental to my health.....

more research needed!


Currently on the right side up of the world.

Delete

Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:*giggle*

the lecture has even reached Sydney. I got it when calling in to order my club swinging book. I did really appreciate it cos it gave me a lot of food for thought.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Delete

Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:Ditto on Rozi's club swining book story.

Delete

Fire_Emanator


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 96
Posted:Well said Pele, I am truly against encouraging newcomers,....I have seen one too many idiots in my time.

On top of that, whenever I do firebreathing, I usually get a slight ache in my Kidneys, I would guess from a bit of absorption. That is why I only ever firebreathe if someone is paying to see it.....I don't practice, only perform for $$$...Might as well be able to afford a casket eh?


Free your mind and your ass will follow!

Delete

Kat
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London

Total posts: 2211
Posted:Firebreathing - scary! I don't care how cool it looks nothing could induce me to try! Think its very important that people do realise that if you play with fire chances are you will get burned. Biggest worry for me is inhaling all that kero though, rather than the fear of getting burned.

I have to admit I have become very relaxed with using firepoi. However I always wear non-flammable clothing and I always spin with someone around to make sure I don't catch flame.

But as of this morning I am convinced that ironing is far dangerous

The iron fell on my leg this morning. It only touched it for a second but I now have an angry red burn! Ouch The most damage with poi I have had is singed arm hair!

I think we should start a thread warning about the dangers of ironing. Have you heard about all those 'extreme ironers' - the nutters who iron in unusual places (ironing while surfing, on top of mountains etc!) Think they need to be warned about dangers of ironing!


Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Delete

Kat
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London

Total posts: 2211
Posted:BTW - Think it should DEFINITELY be mandatory that all fire toys are sold with a safety guide or given a lecture of some sorts.

I get a rush just boarding a plane

Smell of fuel = fire poi

Is it the fire or the fuel fumes that give us the high?? Scary!


Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I had that thought too Kat! Twice!
Once on a recent plane trip when getting off the plane and the fumes seep through the chute they make you walk.
And we went through this Haunted Garden walk and they had tiki torches, ahhh the smell of burning lamp oil.
I swear I am like a Pavlovian dog, trained to get the itch to spin when the odour of burning fuel wafts my way!

I like the idea of the safety manual with the toys, alot. I would even be willing to write one.
However, do you really think it will get read?
I mean, some 14 year old who told his/her parents that it's all safe so pleeeeeze buy me a set is most likely not going to take the time to read a pamphlet after weeks of anticipation.

FireMike, I couldn't find the article online but the jist of it is this....Bartender went to Carribean on vacation where he saw the bartenders down there play with fire. He came back up here, took a mouthful of high-proof alcohol (don't know what it was) and a candle. He burned himself, another bartender and 3 innocent patrons who were sitting at the bar. The bar was fined heavily, people were hospitalized, it wasn't pretty.
Fyrestorm has a couple more articles like this. Several months ago he sent one out about 2 Bartenders who went down on spring break and tried to not only fire breathe but also set the bar area on fire (pour alcohol on top of bar and light to watch it spread). They didn't warn anyone to move their arms so people got very burned. You might want to ask him for the article.
There was also a teenage kid in Cali somewhere who decided to try poi. He put on two layers of clothes, dry over wet. Somehow he caught the dry ones on fire and essentially the wet ones baked him like a lobster. 3rd degree burns over a good portion of his body. My friend was waiting in the emergency room (for his mother) when the kid was brought in and he was able to tell the Dr.'s it was poi because the friends of the kid just kept telling the Dr. it was the fire spinning things.
That scares me!
It's sh!t like this that reflects poorly on everyone who does fire.

Thanks for the support though everyone. I truly expected to get a bit of crap from someone, I don't know who, but....


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

N8


member
Location: NY, USA

Total posts: 336
Posted:(hands Pele a small piece of manure)

I know I know, 'Ever the non-conformist'
You love me.


Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Delete

Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:you know what i find disturbing tho?? a LOT is said about the danger of inhaling fuel.... however, hardly nothing that i've read here, has been said about ingesting it through your cheek linings...

The flesh on the inside of the mouth isnt that tough, in essense its pretty absorbant. So if you are holding fuel in your mouth, even for a few seconds, or scarily, while spinning to finish your performance off with a blast..... all that time the fuel is getting straight into your blood system!

Ring the chick at juggle art...... she'll tell you how traditional circuses used to teach their mentally handicapped children to fire breathe, because it wasnt expected that they were going to live long anyway, and they were "expendable" ......

Is your life expendable??? think about it...


Currently on the right side up of the world.

Delete

FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Pele, thanx, if ya ever hear a name-date ref to that Cali kid, i want it. on our site we note that ( * hallelujah, bless the trees! * ) so far in a place full of wildfires and town fires and scared to death of them, none are attributed to kids lighting up poi. so far. we can't have that much influence, but SoCalFire wants to prevent that happening if we can get some safety influence out, especially to the hundreds of kids who try it for the first time who fuel most of pyro practice growth, soloists and small bands of friends outta any other pyros' sight including ours.

funny, those bar stories, i'm gonna be in the low-class Bacardi crowd my next blow, when i'm ready, and only wonder right now how expensive that stuff is gonna be to play with. anything which works but petrochems, uh?

hey, have you come to any next feeling, Pele, yourself? when you're gonna take a lil breath & let it out wet over a torch again? WITH a spotter, course, you old pro, damn i'm impressed you had charcoal pills in reach, ya wily old goddess!

with all my warm and even my drunken love when it comes to ya,

~ Mikie


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

Delete

FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Flyntie, you've just added category 4 to my list of pathways for petrochem poisoning!

(1) digestion (2) yours: absorption through lips and mouth (pre-digestion beginning of the alimentary canal, but mouth is not only alimentary, it's speech, breath, etc., too!) (3) central nervous system (CNS) including major nerve pathways throughout the body from any point of entry, and up into brain which influences not only thought, memory, emotion, perception, but also dreams (4) respiration -- inhalation into sinuses of head and down through windpipe into lungs wow, it's way more complete now, thanx
with all my love,

~ Mikie

[ 29 October 2002, 13:25: Message edited by: FreMke ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

Delete

theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:hell ya pele!

i understand compleeeetly what you're saying about people not using safety the way it should be. i was at the texas rennesiance faire(TRF) last weekend and saw alota shit that should NOT have been goin on. there is a fire troupe trying to get their start out there which is a noble idea except that they were stupid about it. they were mixing breathing fuels( everything from unpure paraffin to bio-desial to citronella, yeah..liquid bug killer), they were all nearly compleatly wasted off alcohol and i dont know what else, and they only had one saftey for all 6 performers and even then the saftey only had a dry towel, no fire extingusher or anything, and one of the performers walked over to their friend who had never blown fire before or even practiced with water, handed her a bottle of bio/paraffin mix and a torch and then told her to blow, and on a final note they had people holding torches and smoking with the fuel open right under them. damn....

but after alot a chewing out from my troupe who knows what they are doing, they started to do things right. even then..its insane how much they weren't using common sense. so thanks for sayin what you did pele..we all needed to hear it, from newbie to old pro..it STILL applies to us all


its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

Delete

Magnus


member
Location: Bath, UK

Total posts: 279
Posted:Blowing yourself up or burning yourself to death is a choice anyone is allowed to make.

Two chappies turned up at the fire meet in Bath, having witnessed our 3-way breathe last night, wanted to know "can anyone do it? is it easy to learn?"

I told them it was easy, and I'd love to teach them, and even though it was easy for it to go wrong they'd probably be fine, and even though professionals hospitalise themselves not to worry, and how even the tiniest drop of inhaled paraffin could give you chemical pneumonia.

At that point they decided maybe they'd give it a miss.

I then tried doing wraps round my leg with my skipping rope, which was fun but a bit scary.


Magnus... pay it forward

Delete

Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:I'll credit Ade for this story. She was talking about a group who were organised to teach people how to firebreath. On the first night they made them take a mouthful of water and hold it in their mouth. They had to jog around the field, play games, all with this mouthful of water. At the end of the session, anyone who could honestly say they swallowed some of the water was asked to put up their hand. It is an excellent way of showing ust how easy it is in the excitement of a performance to swallow fuel.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Delete

Page: 12