Forums > Social Discussion > footage contradicts london police on brazilian killing

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:did y'all see the footage released, showing the "terrorist suspect" calmly wlaking along and the police sneak up behind him and waste him?

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/london_bombings
br>
Looks like the police lied, but video surveilence tells no lies.

I hope they punish those responcible. Really, I know y'all are freaked out right now (for good reason), but giving police authority to waste anybody, without fear of repercusions, is a very dangerous precident.


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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:you think we gave them that authority?

Also the 'mistake' (and i use this lightly) has already been admitted. Not that it makes it any better, just that we are aware of what happened, yes.


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:as far as i know that footage hasn't been released - do you have a link dan?

the incident has been reported on by itv news who received leaked reports from the ongoing investigation.

this is why i'm glad police don't have guns all the time frown


cole. x


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Yep, it's pretty shocking but almost expected. The Evening Standard is already calling for police blood. Although funnily enough they were forgiving the police back when it happened!

Most politicians here are understandably waiting for the official Independent Police Complaints Commision findings. If they find that the shooting was in error the officer in question will be charged with manslaughter or murder.

I remember when I first heard about the shooting my gut instinct was that they shot the wrong man. The witness accounts all seemed somewhat different to each other; people tend to be rather open to suggestion about what they've seen. I still feel more intimidated by the police with guns than backpack wearing Muslims. Maybe that's because I go through Stockwell every day. On the 21st I saw some pretty nervous looking police with big guns and that's not good!

I'm going to wait for the IPCC report to hear what all the stories are. Any which way, I feel really sorry for him and his family.


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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:The main question i keep wondering, Mr Menezes was shot 8 times, SEVEN of those time in the head, how and why can you shoot someone 7 times in the head!!!



CONSPIRACY ALL THE WAY!!! mad


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Not a conspiracy, Will. Just overzealous police.

And they need to be tried and convicted of murder and locked up for life.

Because whether it's a terrorist bomb or police bullets to the head, you're just as dead. And THIS is why sacrificing liberty for safety gets you neither.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:there was a certain founding father who said that, mike.



I believe the rest of the quote involved surrender of firearms to the government and police and military.



"those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither" or somehting like that.



Man, I really do hope The UK gets this worked out. Y'all are some good people, and don't deserve this. Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along". And I really do think that officer did what he thought was the right thing, at the time...a little over kill, yea...But, to his credit (stupidity). Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed. So mistaking a brazilian for an arab is quite possible, I guess.... IT is sad. And the government saying it is ok, (or lieing about it, covering it up) is no good.



Here in the USA, the arabs have been sneaking across the Mexican boarder to the USA for quite some time now. About one in ten illegals who get caught are OTM (Other Than Mexican) which includes all others, but a significan't number now are arab males 18-35 sometimes in large groups, the arabs cut their hair and have a mustache, and dress in the same cloths as mexicans, and try and sneak across the boarder, possing as mexicans. scary stuff huh? That's why USA citizens vollunteeered to help stop it. The higher ups in the boarder patrol flipped out LOL... whining and moaning...





we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: dantana


And I really do think that officer did what he thought was the right thing, at the time...a little over kill, yea...But, to his credit (stupidity). Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed. So mistaking a brazilian for an arab is quite possible, I guess.... IT is sad.







How can you form an opinion on that?



You don't know the officer, you don't know anything about him- even in the UK no one really knows what happened, the initial govt statements have been shown to be false (apparently it's now been established that he wasn't even guilty of the 'crime' of running from armed men, latest video footage shows that he did not run).



From the start it was obvious that an innocent man had been killed by UK police- now it's looking more like murder.



This innocent person who was shot in the head multiple times could have been anyone- he could have been the cousin of anyone reading this. Though I will grant possibly not a relative of yours, due to his 'browness', but a lot of us in these enlightened times do have brown relatives, and yes, they can be mistaken for arabs, nevertheless, execution is execution, regardless of ones skin colour.







"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Written by: DJ Dantana

Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along".

Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed.




Actually, most people are saying "We'd just like to get along with our lives, please leave us be. Have you finished with that paper?" We've been bombed before, we'll be bombed again. People get pretty much used to it.

Also the browness comment might apply to a very sheltered community and police officer. But this is London. The guy got a bus from from Tulse Hill to Stockwell, via Brixton. That's where I live and on those street white English folk are a minority.
There was no decent picture of the suspect available at the time so there was nobody to mistake him for. The reason he was followed was that he left the same block of flats as was connected to a gym membership card found at one of the attempted bomb sites.

I don't see the connection here between this and sacrificing liberty for safety. Liberties and human rights are being set aside wherever the government feels like. But this isn't a result of that. This is the result of a mistake. It's a globally common tale: Somebody had a gun and used it when they shouldn't have. Just this time it was somebody who was meant to be protecting the public.

As for vigilante border controls in Texas - I'm happy the border patrol reacted! But we're not talking about why the kkk border patrol incorporated is a bad/good idea. Or gun control!


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Written by: Dom


I still feel more intimidated by the police with guns than backpack wearing Muslims.







Yep, Dom, I feel the same way. After living in UK for 15 years, it took me quite a while to get used to Aussie police walking around with guns on their hips all the time. I was so surprised when I heard about this incident.. do UK police wear guns now, then? And I agree.. I like many of you I lived through years of the IRA bombs, and was in a number of 'incidents'. Here our Govt tries constantly to hype and 'terrorise' us by filling our head with propaganda about terrorists. But I never have even the slightest winkle of fear at any time about 'terrorists'.

But a cop with a gun... *shudder*

and when I was in the US I was freaked out all the time. Everyone I looked at I would think. Do you have a gun, do you? Realising that most shops I went into had guns... ugh, I couldn't stand it.

eek

I could feel mny shoulders relax the second i went over into Canada... so I could certainly relate when I saw Bowling for Columbine.... So I do think to some extent this thread is about gun control. The only function of a gun is to kill or maim... the more guns there are around the less safe we are/feel. No matter who has them.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Dom

Written by: DJ Dantana

Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along".

Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed.




Actually, most people are saying "We'd just like to get along with our lives, please leave us be. Have you finished with that paper?" We've been bombed before, we'll be bombed again. People get pretty much used to it.




Totally true. I was pretty surprised at how mellow most were about the bombings. Most of the older crowd has grown up with countless IRA bombings in the news and the younger crowd has been desensitived by videogames anyway. wink

Police lies, shootings and brutality? Just another example of the UK trying to be like the US and coming up short. wink wink wink


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Went to a show in the Edinburgh Festival called the Newsrevue, they (predictably) make fun of news with sketches, songs and silly jokes in between. We were wondering if they would have something to say about the bombings and the shooting of de Menezes.

They did, and even though some in the audience were a bit surprised about it being quite politically incorrect, most laughed and noone made any bad comments. I'm glad people deal with it this way - to laugh about scary things is much better than to get aggressive about them!


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: NYC

Police lies, shootings and brutality? Just another example of the UK trying to be like the US and coming up short. wink wink wink



Yeah, we haven't learned not to do it in front of cameras yet... biggrin


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:don't sell yourself short - American's are dumb enough for actually film it themselves (as per the iraqi jail torture stuff)

-v-

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Yah but do you remember the (name escapes me) case in LA where there was video footage of the police bashing a man to death. In court they 'analysed' it frame by frame and decided that as no particular 'frame' had killed him, it hadn't happened! Now that was so dumb it was smart.. or was it the other way round?

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Written by: DJ Dantana


I know y'all are freaked out right now (for good reason),





Hey Dantana, I'm not sure you've spent much time in London....

or UK... as generally it is a point of honour amongst the Limeys NOT to freak out.( stiff upper lip, keeping up standards, it's not cricket, don't let the bastards grind you down etc)



I'd say Londoners are not nearly so concerned about random strangers planting bombs on public transport (happened before, will happen again, we survived the Blitz etc) as they are about random strangers TALKING to them on public transport! wink


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:or in the case of your son giving them a smile and wink ubblol that made riding the tubes sooooo much more fun

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: newgabe


Yah but do you remember the (name escapes me) case in LA where there was video footage of the police bashing a man to death. In court they 'analysed' it frame by frame and decided that as no particular 'frame' had killed him, it hadn't happened! Now that was so dumb it was smart.. or was it the other way round?





You're not referring to Rodney King are you?


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Yes thanks it is that exactly. Thanks

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Er, newgabe, they have guns in canada too... less laws about them really... I think its who has the guns, not the guns, and how guns are seen.

I'm terrified of the scared police in london with guns too (and yes, I saw some of them, I was in London from the 7th-13th and again on the 27th of July...)
I mean, when I found out about the bombings, I was ok with it once I determined that it was not internation war... (Dom has a dramatic way of waking one up ^_^) But after I heard about the police shooting the guy I started to get a little scared of the tube...

So glad to be in a country that was taking it all calmly tho, god do I want to move there!

But I'm much more scared of London police with guns than American police with guns, and even less so of, say, Michigan police with guns, because the really respect the guns a lot more here- its just a different attitude. Not that I'm trying to defend americans and all their problems here (really more canadians!) but just saying...

And, my favourite bit of logic recently:
security + militia = freedom
[[But if anyone wants to argue specifically that on its merits, please take it to another thread, i'll follow, thx.]]


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