Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
Written by: jeff(fake)Written by: UraniumChipOxidationFacility
"It is an evolutionary lie that white people are more "evolved" than others"
When was it suggested that white people are more evolved?
If anything, black people are not so much more evolved, rather differently evolved than white people?
Indeed. It was only a few hundred years ago that people were argueing that Africans were the descendants of Cain and thus deserved enslavement.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Written by: Patriarch917
Not so with the theory of evolution. Social Darwinism is the foundation for modern eugenics, and provides a moral framework to support the idea that "superior races" have a right to eliminate "inferior" ones... like Hitler tried to do.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Written by: spiralxWritten by: Patriarch917
Not so with the theory of evolution. Social Darwinism is the foundation for modern eugenics, and provides a moral framework to support the idea that "superior races" have a right to eliminate "inferior" ones... like Hitler tried to do.
No it doesn't. Evolution makes no claims that any creature is superior to any other - the only criteria you can go by is fitness for the environment it is in. By that definition all humans are approximately equal - we all have far, far more in common than the small differences between different people. Now you might be able to argue that evolutionarily speaking cockroaches are superior to humans, after all they're much better survivors than we are. And sharks and crocodiles have been around for millions of years practically unchanged!
Social Darwinism is a perversion of evolution based upon two faulty premises - firstly that any group of people is significantly genetically distinct from any other, and secondly that "survival of the fittest" is a moral doctrine and not a fairly obvious fact about nature. It is in no way a logical or inevitable consequence of the theory of evolution.
Written by: Birgit
Hi Patriarch!
Since you're quite good at explaining your points, can I ask you a question, too?
What is the reason for the existence of homosexuality? I'm asking cause, according to science and genetics, gay men have "more female" (= more fertile) sisters, and the logical consequence would be lesbians having "more male" (= successful in fights and of course breeding) brothers.
I'm not quite sure if there's any reason given for it in the bible, all I know is that it's not approved...
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: Patriarch917
I dispute that those premises are faulty. While I suggest that there is no significant genetic difference between people, others posts have tried to claim that some differences (such as skin color) ARE significant in allowing people to be more “fit to survive” an environment. The implication is that if these small differences are significant, over time larger significant differences will manifest. The human race will split, and the different “races” will compete. The winner be whoever is more fit for the environment.
Written by: Patriarch917
This is a logical and inevitable consequence of evolution, unless the “superior” humans decide for some arbitrary reason to keep the “inferior” humans around. (Perhaps for food, as was done in “The Time Machine”). If a mutant portion of humanity that is better suited to rule earth evolves, it will be in direct competition with the older version of humanity. Evolution teaches that this has happened in the far past, history confirms (in Hitler) that people have attempted it in the recent past, and there is no moral basis for condemning humans that may try to do it in the future. Either we fight them and win, or we lose. We cannot call them “evil” for wanting to evolve.
Written by: Patriarch917
Survival of the fittest is the only relevant moral basis that evolution provides by which an action can be judged. In evaluating anything such as murder, homosexuality, or being Jewish, evolution demands only that we ask whether these things contribute to the fitness of our species in our environment.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Written by: Patriarch917
Survival of the fittest is the only relevant moral basis that evolution provides...
Written by: Patriarch917
@Birgit: The reason for homosexuality, according to the Bible, is the same reason that causes people to be murderers, theives, adulterers, and every other evil thing.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
Written by: spiralx
Then those posters are wrong Modern genetics has shown that the classical idea of race doesn't exist - groups of people sharing similar characteristics should be considered to be nothing more than a (very) extended family, much as families share physical traits. Isolated groups of people of any kind who breed together often end up physically similar, it's just this on a larger scale.
Written by: spiralx
Plus you're still talking about superior and inferior humans. This is a value judgement (and a bad one IMO) that does not follow from evolution.
Written by: spiralx
You seem to be stuck in the naturalistic fallacy - the idea that because something is natural it is therefore "good". Even if evolution said that there were better and worse people (and it doesn't) then that in way no means that we're forced to assume this is how we should act - we are moral creatures and decide our own morality. The natural world is full of animals killing, raping and cannibalising each other, it does not therefore follow that we must accept these things as good!
Written by: spiralxWritten by: Patriarch917
Survival of the fittest is the only relevant moral basis that evolution provides by which an action can be judged. In evaluating anything such as murder, homosexuality, or being Jewish, evolution demands only that we ask whether these things contribute to the fitness of our species in our environment.
Again the naturalistic fallacy. We decide our own morality. Evolution may help us understand the causes of our behaviour, but we are in no way obliged to accept those causes as being "good" or something we can't change.
Written by: Patriarch917
Evolution teaches that mutations will occur that will make an organism better suited to an environment. It follows that the new type of organism is “superior” to the previous one at surviving in it’s environment.
Written by: Patriarch917
You seem to be suggesting that a form of humanism should replace naturalism. That we are able to “decide” our own morality. If that is true, it still leaves to us the option to choose “survival of the fittest” as the basis for our morality. If one group of people chooses “might makes right” while another group chooses to “turn the other cheek,” natural selection would tend to favor one group over the other in the long run. Thus, some would say that a rational option is to choose the lowest common utilitarian denominator: fitness of the species.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
Patriarch917, evolution is a fact of life, and has been proved beyond doubt. Creatism is a story from the Bible that mainly American fundamentalist Christians have interpreted literally, and incorrectly. I would suggest that ideas of race superiority also come from said fundamentalists. If you don’t believe me then take another look; read what the Prophet Mohammed says in the Koran.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: Patriarch917
@Birgit: The reason for homosexuality, according to the Bible, is the same reason that causes people to be murderers, theives, adulterers, and every other evil thing.
Evil decisions, genetic problems, and suffering in general are the direct result of man's rebellion against God.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Written by:
At that time, when men of learning were convinced that there were only about 3,000 stars, Jeremiah wrote that nobody would be able to count the stars. Let us consider an imaginary dialogue between Jeremiah (J) and a well known astronomer (A) of that day, about 600 years before Christ:
A: Jeremiah, you write about the number of stars as if you knew what you were saying. My colleagues and I have studied astronomy for a long time and daily concern ourselves with the stars. Our researches have made astronomy the most advanced science. Even kings appreciate and respect our findings.
J: You may have discovered many things, but you are mistaken about the number of stars.
A: How do you know that? You have not studied astronomy, not even for a single semester. So do not speak about matters which you do not understand!
J: Yes, of course my studies were in a totally different field. But I still maintain that nobody is able to count the stars, because they total such a large number, similar to the number of grains of sand on the beach.
A: We have recently completed a survey of the number of stars in the sky, employing our younger colleagues whose vision is sharp and unimpaired. They did not miss any stars, and their count was 3,000. Revise your biblical text; it has been disproved by our scientific findings.
J: I still maintain that I have written the truth. I am no expert, but I know Him Who created the stars. He has told me and I believe Him.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by: Stone
Patriarch 917, I think you must have missed the bit about Mendelian genetics. When I said evolution has been accepted by the scientific community for way over 100 years. It means we have been using modern evolutionary synthesis for that time.
Written by: Stone
So how does Creatism produce food? The story of the “loaves and the fishes” probably has significance, but it doesn’t put bread on the table. The bread you eat is a product of evolution, and the bread wheat grown now is a far cry from the wild relatives from which it originated. We would starve if not for modern evolutionary synthesis.
Written by: Stone
If you claim the Bible says that we are all one family and that racism is wrong. Then why don’t you accept Mohammed and the Koran?
Written by: Stone
So how does life develop if not through the evolutionary process?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
When you say “God created the original kinds of plants, animals, and people. Everything living now descended from them.” This is the evolutionary process.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by: Patriarch917
The theory of relativity, and subsequent discoveries, are making that neat little problem obsolete. We now know that time is not a constant, and can run at different speeds at different points in the universe depending on speed and gravity. If, during creation, the mass of the universe was concentrated in a small area and then blasted outward at incredible speed (as some evidence seems to suggest), the earth would have at some point passed through an "event horizon" where time (from the point of an observer on earth) would have slowed nearly to a pause. The claim that billions of years of stellar development could have taken place in a single day (as measured from earth) doesn't seem quite as ridiculous now as it would have a hundred years ago.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...