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Forums > Social Discussion > Intelligent Design vs Evolution

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:ok so first read this http://www.venganza.org/
i mean really!!!! wtf?!?!?!?! i just cant get over how censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored this is.

*deep cleansing breath*

ok so how is it that any educated person (as one would assume the Kansas School Board would be required to have some level of education?) or even a mildly retarded chimp for that matter would even consider adding something like ID to a science curriculum?

Now if the ID group where to be taking a page or two from Cellular Automata (which evolution essentially is just in a much more complex environment with more complex survival/interaction rules) and add that the resulting now is possibly the result of design by choosing the rules such that it would evolve in such a way to have created the given now, or that the soul's link to the real world might be the apparently random quantum tunnelling effects that take place in the microtubules (yet another CA) in the brain then i wouldnt have such a big problem with their proposal. both of which are horribly speculative and cant be proven but both allow for the concept of "god" to be introduced to highlight that science doesnt have all the answers

i suppose next we will be using the fox network for our history classes? confused
/end vent


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Patriarch

They were either fossilized, eaten by scavengers, or rotted away.



Showing a complete lack of understanding for the question asked.

Why did several species of OCEAN DWELLING creatures DIE OUT ENTIRELY when suddenly their NATIVE ENVIRONMENT became the most prominant one in the entire world? There is no logical explanation for their deaths, in the same way there would be no logical explanation for parrots to die out if the entire world became covered in rainforest. Bear in mind that most of the old sea going dinosaurs were close to the top of their food chains.

ALSO if the entire world was covered in water, where did that water go? And why wasn't every species of land dwelling plant wiped out? Unless you plan to tell me Noah repopulated the globe with plant seeds that he had taken with him on the Ark. Literal interpretations of the Bible can only lead to embarassment and pain.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Total posts: 607
Posted:Written by: Sethis

Written by: Patriarch

They were either fossilized, eaten by scavengers, or rotted away.



Showing a complete lack of understanding for the question asked.

Why did several species of OCEAN DWELLING creatures DIE OUT ENTIRELY when suddenly their NATIVE ENVIRONMENT became the most prominant one in the entire world? There is no logical explanation for their deaths, in the same way there would be no logical explanation for parrots to die out if the entire world became covered in rainforest. Bear in mind that most of the old sea going dinosaurs were close to the top of their food chains.

ALSO if the entire world was covered in water, where did that water go? And why wasn't every species of land dwelling plant wiped out? Unless you plan to tell me Noah repopulated the globe with plant seeds that he had taken with him on the Ark. Literal interpretations of the Bible can only lead to embarassment and pain.



Many ocean dwelling animals would have gone extinct due to the catastrophic global change in the environment. Additionally, many forms that had been on the ark would have gone extinct shortly after the flood, since it was probably followed by an ice age.

I dont know why people keep asking about the water. The water didnt go anywhere except into the oceans. While it is theoretically possible for Noah to have brought seeds with him, there is no reason to think that seeds could not survive a flood. There would have been entire uprooted floating forests, and many seeds can survive a dunking. However, the evidence does indicate that many species of plant were also wiped out (again, the ice age could have played a role in this). For more answers, I recommend you look at this link.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/444.asp
br>


Written by: UraniumChipOxidationFacility

Written by: UraniumChipOxidationFacility

Patriarch: What would it take, or what proof would you require that showed beyond all possible doubt that evolution does happen and will continue to happen, and it was, has and never will be God that is designing everything?

umm

If that is the case....



So....umm...what proof for the existance of evolution would you not be able to argue with? umm



Thats a difficult question, since it is technically impossible to prove a theory about something that happened in the past. Of course, I can imagine a few scenarios, but no feasible ones.

For example, if we could somehow travel faster than light we could go to a point far, far away with a very powerful telescope, then look back at the earth and see light that had come from it long ago. We could actually watch historical events with reasonable accuracy.

Aside from the fact that I am assuming a Newtonian universe (which has been disproven), this is also impractical.

Initially, one would think that if life were created from nonliving materials in a laboratory this would lend a lot of weight to the idea of abiogenesis (spontaneous generation of life from inorganic material). However, if you think about it for a moment it would actually prove the opposite. If humans created life in a lab, that life would only be the product of intelligent design.

Finding life on another planet seems, on its face, to suggest that perhaps abiogenesis is a possibility. However, if you really think about it, life appearing by chance on earth would have defied odds (by some estimates) greater than the number of electrons in the known universe. Other estimates place the odds at greater than the number of electrons that could fill the volume of the known universe. Either way, it was an unlikely event.

To have it happen twice, close enough in time and space so that one form of life could find the other, is even more unlikely (if we can imagine that). Even the oldest estimates of the universe dont allow enough time for it. It would be as solid a proof for the miraculous origin of life as you could ask for, short of God actually coming down and writing it in a book for us.

As you can see, it is difficult to invent an experiment that can be done by humans that would not simultaneously lend strength to both arguments. This is due in part because both theories agree on the sort of world we should find: the one that exists.

In the end, neither theory makes predictions that can be readily disproved by the methods we have currently available. For this reason, they both must ultimately be accepted on faith.

The question of whether a school board has the right to choose just one to teach children to believe in, or whether both should be taught, or neither, should not be an easy question for the proponents of either theory. I personally will teach my children about both theories, and let them choose for themselves. I see no reason to hide such things from children who are ready to start thinking for themselves.


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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917




Thats a difficult question, since it is technically impossible to prove a theory about something that happened in the past. Of course, I can imagine a few scenarios, but no feasible ones.





Maybe there's something wrong with your imagination.



Evolution is happening TODAY, it is not a thing of the past. Did you check put my liger post? Or maybe you do not acknowledge the creation of new dog and cat species that cannot breed together with their parent species, while being able to breed with their brothers and sisters.



These happen everyday so I don't know how you say that evolution is a thing of the past without being totally ignorant of species/interspecies breeding.



But the real point here is "Intelligent design" and whether it constitutes a real scientific theory.



Tell me good sir, is this an example of "Intelligent design"?


Non-Https Image Link


What Intelligent being designed this?



What about Harlequin Fetus? The pictures of which are much too gruesome to post here.



In my opinion, one cannot consider these the result of "intelligent design" even though these poor souls are Humans, stated by creationists and IDists to be holy and in the image of God.



I must say with much indignance that your views are much of what is backward with the world, the rampant ignorance of suffering which is a mockery of God and these poor souls, the creation of which cannot be called "Intelligent" or the result of any caring, benevolent, or omnipotent god.



***Be forewarned that the images on the following link are EXTREMELY disturbing...***

If anyone wants to check out Harlequin Fetus, check out this link here.



To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:No prob mint smile

Written by: Mint Sauce

Written by: FireTom

But just because there are some stupid posts in the Bible, it doesn't affect the rest of the thread... We also have to take the time into account, where it originates from etc.


hu!!! Where what originates from??




Mint - what's unclear about it? Where and when the Bible was written and originated from... At the time death penalty was not uncommon and the ways to bring someone to death were pretty ugly to make other people scared and "behave".

Written by: firetom

If a "critical mass" is reached, evolution might happen like a landslide.



IMUnderstanding mutation happens "accidentally" (which is random) - or has to get to a certain "critical" point then happens within a few generations. I do not believe that this mutation happens randomly, but by urge/ demand. Please tell me who was first: the fower and it's shape, or the respective insect who uniquely ensures it's reproduction.

Written by: Mint sauce
Written by: FireTom

Also the fact that this universe is still expanding doesn't really disprove the said theory



which said theory? there are so many even just in this thread



Big swing vs. big bang - here, too, I cannot find a contradiction of the two theories, as a big "swing" could also happen with a energy release like a "bang"...

Written by: mint sauce

Written by: FireTom

we might have to accept that certain things actually DO change



In what sense do you mean do you mean that laws of physics change environmental change genetic change or do you just mean everything????
Thanks smile




I meant that evolution happens and therefore things change. Laws of physics are the most unlikely to change I suppose, environmental change might cause genetical change. Every species tries to adjust to the changes in the environment in order to survive.Mankind brought forth a variety in order to survive in various climates and under various conditions. Genetical change happens today for whatever reason - take environmental pollution, radiation etc...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:dope - I wanted to open a "Bible-threat" errm "-thread" but I did a search and it comes obvious that the last one has been closed due to massive disagreements... frown

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by:
However, if you really think about it, life appearing by chance on earth would have defied odds (by some estimates) greater than the number of electrons in the known universe. Other estimates place the odds at greater than the number of electrons that could fill the volume of the known universe. Either way, it was an unlikely event.



It is now widely believed in the scientific community that in the right conditions it is extremely likely. In fact its just a matter of time before life springs up.


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mo-seph


mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
Posted:Slightly offtopic, but I thought some of you guys might be amused by the use of genetic algorithms (and other "evolutionary approaches") in artificial intelligence at the moment. In GAs, solutions to a problem are encoded as "chromasomes", which are then reproduced in a variety of ways, especially crossover and mutation, generally with those which provide a better solution having a larger chance of reproducing.



Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithms
br>


Interesting points are:



- it shows, in theory, that random mutation can have a beneficial effect.

- it is one of the few situations where "beneficial effect" is a valid term, as we have an explicit measure of value.

- it's often described as a "best-worst" solution - when we can't use domain knowledge and analytical techniques to find a good answer, GAs are the best of what we're left with.

- it's got a sexy name.



I don't think it provides any real material for either side of the argument, but it is nice to see even a simulation of evolution in action. (I'm not saying that this is how evolution works, or that they bear any serious relation to the real world or anything like that.)



*Edited as I forgot the link first time round...*

EDITED_BY: mo-seph (1138962070)


monkeys ate my brain

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:Patriarch917 to quote another thread I respect your point, but I don't agree with you.



You argue well but I'm am stepping out before I get to frustrated wink



think i will still lurk round though see where this goes



i see i am not going to convince you to see my views on the world smile



One final question if you can find me an example of a fossil from the Triassic period in Jurassic or Cretaceous period rock layers or vice versa or and example of a fossil from the wrong period being found in any layer it is not supposed to be found in I would be most impressed.





In a flood surly a just a few would have been caught un aware and fossilized together or within a similar structured rock layer if they all lived at the same time.



oh ps Thanks Tom smile


EDITED_BY: Mint Sauce (1138973249)


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:Post deleted by Mint Sauce

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:Post deleted by Mint Sauce

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:Post deleted by Mint Sauce

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Mint Sauce: You are aware that you can edit your posts, right? ubblol biggrin

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:yes ubblocoim just lazy



is that better hug

EDITED_BY: Mint Sauce (1138973127)


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917
I already explained your first question (about the supposed arrangement of complexity) in an earlier post. In addition, I would point out that a mammal has been found with a dinosaur in its stomach. Do you really consider this to have disproved evolution?

Mammals and dinosaurs lived at the same time.

EDITED_BY: jeff(fake) (1139060634)


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:KaelGotRice, could you take down the image and the link please. This is a family site.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:admittedly this is getting frustrating because while some people are here to test out their convictions and how solid their theories are and answer some questions and bounce off some ideas...
other people are just being censoredand just are here to be censoredand want to see how offensive they can get before the others turn on them

that aside, some people say that matter is energy slowed down and then you have proton decay and the expanding universe theories...
so let's try this on for size:
the energy always existed, but one thing about energy is they have seen energy particles pop in and out of existence...so a supernatural being slows down energy and begins the whole matter process...arranged two energy particles to smack into each other or something like that...big bang...and this aligns all the other chaotic energy creating the beginning of our universe and because this being arranged it He sees how it will form and flow and knows that we will come into existence and while everything has (ok i'm rusty on this so excuse me if i get it backwards) a spirit and us a spirit and soul...and there are patterns everywhere and so we see youth and growth and things expand but they can only expand so much even in the grand universal scheme...things can expand only so far before the glue-like gravity-can't hold it together and then everything will spin apart and chaos with exist again and it just will be energy so we have revaltions and our finite universe
i think i forgot my point, but i hope it was there


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:as for the picture and intelligent design as was discussed perfection has been transmuted by the effect that our sins have had on the world (that is just the simple belief of a person who is so unintelligent to have strength in mind to have faith in something greater than herself)

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)


KaelGotRice, could you take down the image and the link please. This is a family site.





That's to prove a point. And seen right above.



I can't see how people can pin other people's suffering on "inherent sins" of humanity, without feeling sin about it themselves.



What about Africa? What about the starving children and rampant AIDs and genocides? Is that all part of the "original sin" of humans? Or just Africans because they're "out of sight" and out of mind. What about billions of Chinese struggling under Communism? What about the billions more of Indians without access to clean drinking water?



The point is, some creationists/IDists/religious nuts care so much about proving their point about God that they're willing to let other people suffer and die because of religious concepts. Where is the peace and love that Jesus spoke of?



What they have posted is more offensive to me than the pictures I posted.



So if it is truly bad, ask a mod to edit my posts. I'm sorry if that offended anyone, but I hope it makes you think about the suffering in this world, and anything you can do to help make it better.



Genetic research is going on to fix such things before they happen- and other creationists are complaining about toying with God. The same thing with abortions.



Why would you willingly let something suffer?



I can only see evil brought on by ignorance as the answer.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I personally think there isn't anything offensive about Kael's post. The image is of a fully clothed, living breathing human child. Should I be told to take down a picture I put up of a guy in a wheelchair? Both are disabled people, just in different ways. And he did give lots of warning about following the link (and he was right, it is something I would NOT recommend for squeamish/young people) so anyone who follows it should be prepared for the consequences.

ubblol @ jo_rhymes

And everyone who blames disasters/problems on Original Sin makes me want to pick up a crowbar and start hitting things. Like kneecaps.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Total posts: 607
Posted:The presence of evil and suffering in the world is a verifiable prediction of the Biblical account. We may not like the fact that it exists, but this doesn't make it more or less true, any more than the fact that something is "widely believed" (to quote Seye) can make something more or less true.

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917

The presence of evil and suffering in the world is a verifiable prediction of the Biblical account.



ubblol ubblol

umm

I'm amazed. The Bible predicts that there is suffering in this world. No sith. I thought we lived in Care Bear land...

And the fact that a significant portion of it is because of religions of all varieties means, what to you?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Total posts: 607
Posted:That the Bible has not yet been disproved on this point.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: Mint Sauce

Written by: Patriarch917

I do not deny red shift, nor that the stars are all hurtling away from us. My first question to you is, do you accept the contention of the theory of relativity (that has been experimentally verified) that time is not a constant, but is distorted by both speed and gravity? My second question is whether you will consider the theory that the universe does not have an infinite size or mass.




I accept that as true apart from the bit about gravity, gravity is non existent the attraction between objects is due to the curvature of space time around mass. As explained by the special theory of relativity.


That's the general theory, not the special theory if relativity smile


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:I don't find the image offensive at all. I deal with mutations on a weekly basis. However children often find them very disturbing.
Written by: Patriarch917

That the Bible has not yet been disproved on this point.

I think you'll find that it has. You simply refuse to acknowledge the evidence due to your faith.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Total posts: 607
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)


Written by: Patriarch917

That the Bible has not yet been disproved on this point.

I think you'll find that it has. You simply refuse to acknowledge the evidence due to your faith.



You seriously think there is no suffering in the world? I suppose from a worldview that recognizes no morality, the concept of suffering and pleasure are as meaningless as "good" and "evil."

However, that belief is a philosophical stance that is independent of "evidence."


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Where does it say that jeff is devoid of morality???

It's not an accomplishment of the Bible for it to say "There has been, is, and always will be suffering in this world". That's like me being proud of working out that if I hit my head on my keyboard (as I have been since entering this dicussion wink ) then it will hurt.

Explain for faithless people like me why there is suffering in an intelligently designed world? And why is so much of it pointless? And why is so much of it caused by religion?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Sethis




Explain for faithless people like me why there is suffering in an intelligently designed world? And why is so much of it pointless? And why is so much of it caused by religion?





It's possibly worth noting that Patriach is pretty much on his own in defending ID in this thread, against a fair number of those arguing against ID.



Each of the questions above are at least as complex as the question of ID itself and could easily sustain several large threads to themselves.



I would say, to those who seem to be getting a bit wound up by Patriarchs responses, that he is, IMO, doing an outstanding job of defending his position very effectively.



In fact, unlike any other discussion I've ever witnessed on this issue, the ID supporter is, if anything, acquitting himself better than the evolutionists.



Especially the way he's not reacted to some of the posts which were unnecessarily insulting towards him.



Whilst I still disagree with him about the value of ID as an explanation for life or the existence of the world, on the strengh of what I've seen on this thread, scientists are going to have to sharpen up their act considerably if they don't want ID becoming more accepted.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Well, when you've got a group of people arguing with what you say, it's very easy to just ignore them lots and repeat the same things over and over again until they get fed up and just don't bother any more.

Personally, the reason I'm getting wound up is his blatent ignoring of anything that he doesn't want to answer and twisting arguements against ID out of context, it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

In the end, it's not worth the effort anymore - I've seen evolution happen with my own eyes, but there's just no way I'm ever going to manage to convince Patriarch of this while he hides behind the arguments of 'an inconsistant multiple generation translation of an ancient text says so' and 'it's punishment for sinning' along an assortment of wild claims that proven biological processes don't actually work as observed.

*sigh* I really should know better than to get involved with this kind of thread by now, it always ends up leaving a bitter taste in everyone's mouth, except possibly the religious fanatics' who probably goes away with a feeling of smug satisfaction that he's argued people to a standstill by making them so incredably frustrated that they just give up.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: TheBovrilMonkey


Well, when you've got a group of people arguing with what you say, it's very easy to just ignore them lots and repeat the same things over and over again until they get fed up and just don't bother any more.





He's badly outnumbered and trying to deal with point after point after point- inevitably, through sheer necessity, he's going to have to be selective with which points he addresses.

As for repeating the same argument over and over, in my experience this is a standard tactic of creationists and one of the reasons I'm respecting Patriarchs approach is that, to me, he does not seem to be doing that.

Mainly though, it's because, in spite of several posts like these-

Written by:

So Patriarch, from your posts I see you have a little to no knowledge of biology, geography, chemistry, astro physics (like how we can see a galaxy a million light years away) or anything at all about the natural world. Yet you assume that you know more about all of them than the respective experts in each field. And I thought I was arrogant to a fault! rolleyes

Out of interest, how did you do in school?



Written by:

Every word now emphasised with the bashing of my head against a wall* You're so F**king stupid! Mammals and dinosaurs lived at the same time. You and your stupid links to this stupid website
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp
br>written by stupid people. You've never read a decent text book on geography or biology but spend your days surfing from one stupid creationist website to anouther, each time with a smug grin on your face, thinking 'ha! this perfect arguement will floor those athiests, may they burn in hell' and never once having a critical though in your stupid head. Seek help. You are mad.




he's risen above it and not responded in kind.

Personally, I value these threads and would not like a return to the old days of HOP where a thread on religion or drugs would invariably degenerate into name-calling and insults, before being locked by a mod.

So I applaud Patriarch for not responding in kind.

As for people banging their heads against a wall and getting frustrated, I see no reason whatsoever why Patriarchs replies would create that response in anyone, unless they simply have problems with the fact that someone disagrees with them.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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