Forums > Social Discussion > Intelligent Design vs Evolution

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ben-ja-menGOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia


Posted:
ok so first read this https://www.venganza.org/
i mean really!!!! wtf?!?!?!?! i just cant get over how censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored this is.

*deep cleansing breath*

ok so how is it that any educated person (as one would assume the Kansas School Board would be required to have some level of education?) or even a mildly retarded chimp for that matter would even consider adding something like ID to a science curriculum?

Now if the ID group where to be taking a page or two from Cellular Automata (which evolution essentially is just in a much more complex environment with more complex survival/interaction rules) and add that the resulting now is possibly the result of design by choosing the rules such that it would evolve in such a way to have created the given now, or that the soul's link to the real world might be the apparently random quantum tunnelling effects that take place in the microtubules (yet another CA) in the brain then i wouldnt have such a big problem with their proposal. both of which are horribly speculative and cant be proven but both allow for the concept of "god" to be introduced to highlight that science doesnt have all the answers

i suppose next we will be using the fox network for our history classes? confused
/end vent

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Patriarch917, in biological science we start with the null hypothesis, there is no difference; there is no god. For sure, its impossible to prove the existence of god, because god does not exit. Its all made up.

From another perspective, you will never understand God, because you don't understand the nature of the world God crreated. You keep trying to fit your so called Christian model to God's model. Doesn't work !

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
Afterall there is a more plausable explaination than the christian model...


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According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


Matty_BSILVER Member
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom


Posted:
somehow I can't imagine an 'invisible pink unicorn' proving anything confused ubblol

jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
we're all part of the outcome, of a really bad science experiment at the Bloobon accademy of genetic engineering by this 128 year old alien kid named Pierre from the planet of gucho in a solar system about 54,000 light years east of here. he was trying to grow mold on this thing that was similar to our potato. he dropped a couple drops of the wrong chemical onto it and it grew arms, legs, and told Pierre to go [censored] himself then blasted off through the ceiling. he told the alien overlords of this. so they tracked it down and captured it. they wanted to kill it but there was this huge debate over whether or not it was considered a living organism and if it would be legal. turned out they couldn't kill it. they made abortions illegal that day too. so what Pierre told me, is that they exiled it because it was running around reaking havok, making a huge mess by throwing it's cigarette butts on the ground, using excessive amounts of profanity and ebonics, constantly eating mcdonalds, and always always complaining about something or other. so they sent it to this little planet in a solar system about 54,000 miles west of gucho that was inhabited by dinosaurs. they thought for certain it wouldn't last a day. but apparently it did. and thats it, that's the truth. if you don't believe me, go ask Pierre. You'll know when you see him. he's the green guy with the big forehead, the big eyes, and the tiny little feet.

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
"The more information, the narrower the audience," Olson said.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
might that be because when people learn too much they find it easier to ignore the truth rather than accept they were wrong?

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


DominoSILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK


Posted:
I've started wondering what one of these exams would actually look like. Anyone know where i can find an American Biology exam that features ID? Not had much luck with Google so far shrug





Edit - preferablely with an answer too
EDITED_BY: Domino (1148315891)

Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.


TheWibblerGOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand


Posted:
ah, ok so patriarch is a creationist, that explains alot.

Personally i think the genesis idea of creation is hilarious.

God say let there be something, and there was something, and god says that's good

and on

and on

and on

I mean whoever wrote that drivel was exceptionally bad at telling a good story. I mean here we have the christian god, who created poetry, coming up with a story that would get a D grade at pre-school

For a really beautiful account of the creation of the world check out the maori version : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81ori_creation_myth

As for inteligent design vs evolution, surely the best possible design god could have made IS Evolution. I just don't get it.

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:

beginning of the world

this ladies and gentlemen, all makes sense.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
hehe! I thought about posting that as well, but the thought of bumping this thread again was too much for me!

It's a good read though!

 Written by:


Why would a perfect, infanate being have to rest for three days after creation? The bible clearly establishes a maximum one to six day resting ratio for the creation of the universe by an infante being.




ubblol

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


UCOFSILVER Member
..lonely.
15,416 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
ubblol



"why don't pirates exist anymore? and why doesn't heaven have a stripper factory and a beer volcano?"



Good questions, well made. biggrin



I just found my favourite ever quote: "the Bible is 100% true- it says so in the Bible." ubblol ubblol ubblol

jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
I like this one:

"Back to evolution- all of the evidence that exists for it is actually false and placed there by Satan, and so that evidence really isn't inconsistent with the Bible at all, and that makes it void." ubblol

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


fNiGOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA


Posted:
this makes me sad:

Creation Museum in Kentucky

ubbcrying

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lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Ken Ham sounds really annoying! I dont know why his wife puts up with him!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


UCOFSILVER Member
..lonely.
15,416 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
He probably has a very large... um.. yeah.. anyway.
ubbangel

wink

DominoSILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK


Posted:
Wallet?

Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
https://www.boingboing.net/2006/08/31/inbred_fundamentalis.html

This is intersting. Despite the fact that they are killing themselvs they somehow turn it in to Gods problem...

I'm really not sure what to make of it, but it is another case of religion blinding people...

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


Bek66Future Mrs Pogo
4,728 posts
Location: The wrong place


Posted:
Actually , the christian religions are built upon the old pagan religious traditions. Only the old religions honour the Earth and her elements not an absent sky god.
When people learn that they are the authors of their own agonies and stop trying to lay blame, maybe then we will evolve. meditate meditate

"Absence is to love what wind is to fire...it extinguishes the small, enkindles the great."
--Comte Debussy-Rebutin


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
erm yeah.

Either way it's a refutation of reason and fact, because no matter what it is based on it's unchangable by nature (or very slow to change anyway).

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
And actually the pagan side of it came in quite late on. It's just judaism changed about a bit and then aged 2000 years with political leaders changing bits they don't like.

shrug

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


Patriarch917SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA


Posted:
Silly Mormons. The Bible forbids inbreeding.

Mascotenthusiast
301 posts

Posted:
I respectfully disagree with Patriarch but I respect him for pretty much taking on half of HoP. Incidentaly my tag line is genuinely an unfortunate co-incidence and not a swipe at patriarch.

I think that in the end the religous idea of faith is so fundamentally opposed to the scientific need for evidence that arguements like these will never be settled. Think of doubting Thomas, the disciple who asked for proof when asked to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead and now held up as a Pariah by the church. I'm damn sure I'd want some proof or good evidence at least before accepting something like that, and I'm sure most scientists would say the same.

I think it makes more sense to say "I believe this because I just know that it is right- thats what faith is" Than to attempt to justify your beliefs with evidence.

The fact is that there is enough evidence out there to justify almost any belief. The key to science is to approach the evidence with an open mind and look for beliefs that make sense given the evidence rather than evidence that makes sense given your beliefs.

The history of twisting the evidence to fit a world view born of religous beliefs is long and unhappy.

Think of Galileo and Copernicus, describing an elegant heliocentric universe, whilst others added small circles (cycles) and then smaller ones (epicycles) to their model of planetary motion. They made the planets move like spirograph patterns, trying to fit the observations into the geocentric model they knew to be correct.

Walls may have ears but they don't have eyes


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Wiki on humanoids



.... and more



help I know - nothing is proven.... wink



Hence: to whom it may concern...
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1158832316)

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Patriarch917SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA


Posted:
They found a several different kinds of apes, therefore "Human evolution is a fact and not a hypothesis." ubblol

Don't be distracted by the artists illustrations and speculation. Look at the actual evidence. The only links ever found between apes and men have been fakes... and not very good ones ("Piltdown Man"). Other than that, all we've found have been apes, men, and that tooth that turned out to be from a pig ("Nebraska Man").

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Patriarch917


Look at the actual evidence.



ubblol

sorry.
the irony made me do it wink


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
ubblol

Patriarch, have you read the blind watch maker yet? I have just added a book to my reading list: Why Darwin matters

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


MikefromGlosSILVER Member
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England


Posted:
actualy evolotion is complete rubbish cuz it dosnt explain what created us because there is a certain protien made by DNA which makes DNA but need other DNA to make DNA this is because DNA is made by somthing called semi consurvitive replication and requires at least half a DNA strand to produce another. Therefore god must of placed both half a dna strand and the protien on the planet to create life. Any sensible a level biologist will tell u that see well anyone who went beaufort will

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: MikefromGlos

Therefore god must of placed both half a dna strand and the protien on the planet to create life.



I don't actually know what you're talking about, but:

a) I don't think it's true, can you provide some links to papers on it, or a wikipedia page?

b) Just because at this point science can't explain something doesn't then mean that 'god' did it. It is a bad argument taht people use a lot.

hug

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


MikefromGlosSILVER Member
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England


Posted:
i will have to look the stuff up again in textbooks and find the name of the protien but the same thing is true of ribosomes dna is needed to make them yet they go in the process of making dna.....

As to point b i use the word god as a lack of a better word because there is no word for what ever created us yet as we dont know what it is

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing


Patriarch917SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA


Posted:
You don't know what he's talking about, but you don't think it's true? smile

I know what you mean, but it's still funny. ;-)

Sounds like Mike is simply advancing an argument against abiogenisis, saying that one cannot make DNA without something that only DNA can make.

This sounds like a "chicken and egg" problem, but it is not a criticism of evolution. Both those that believe in evolution, and those that believe in ID both agree that currently, one needs a chicken to get an egg, and an egg to get a chicken. Similarly, they might both agree (if it is in fact true) that one needs a certain protien to get DNA, and one needs DNA to make that protien.

The abiogenisis reply is that the first DNA molecule formed by chance out of nonliving material, happened to have encoded in it the description of a cell that could live in that environment, and somehow ended up inside a living cell so that life could begin. ID suggests essentially the same process, but theorizes an intelligent outside source that did the arranging of the parts and encoding of the information in the DNA.

In other words, none of us think that chicken and egg relationships existed infinitely into the past. We agree that at one point, there was neither a chicken nor an egg that the chicken could have come from. Some of us simply choose to have faith in the idea that random events could have gotten this cycle started, while others believe that intelligent input was involved.

Science can verify that eggs are comming from chickens, and that chickens are comming from eggs. It cannot (at the moment) let us observe how the first one was made. Some sciences, such as mathematics, allow us to put odds on the idea of a living organism arriving by chance. However, just because something is unlikely doesn't mean that it didn't happen... it just means that it takes more blind faith to believe in it.

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