Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Contact before or after Non Contact?
Login/Join to ParticipatePooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
G'day fellow staff people!
I was just wondering what other people's experiences are of when they learned the different schools. Basically, I think there is "contact" and everything in that (which most people seem to do a lot of) and then there's the other kind. The "Other kind" involves spinning in the hands, throws, passes from hand to hand, often under legs or behind the back. Just like in the free video lessons. This "school" generally involves fast or very fast spinning. Now *I* have a background of doing quarterstaff work, as well as having the person who taught me be fanatical about the "Other kind". So predictably I do a lot of this stuff. However I do very limited contact.
However, when I went to Fal 4 almost no-one did prolonged "Other kind" spinning. I think something like 95% of people's staff work was contact. I think I saw about 8 throws over the entire weekend, apart from me and the French guy who did staff juggling...
Why is this? Does anyone know? Do you have a preference? Which do you think is easier? I just thought I'd ask the Staff community as a whole, because there isn't really anyone I can ask where I live.
Thanks Everyone!
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
to be honest, i think there was a lot of contact at Fal4 due to the fact that ninja dave and mcp were there...
personally i prefer contact, because you get to feel how the smallest change can send the staff off in an opposite direction, but the "other kind" of spinning i find easier, mainly because you can, in someways, be in more control of your staff because you're holding it in your hand the majority of the time.
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old hand
834 posts
Location: Wellington somerset, UK
I like mixing the two goeather, i do, do a lot of contact, but have been getting in to more spinnyness.
Contract is nice because it feels good, and the controll you get is somethign else, the feeling of your body controlling each movement.
fast spinny stuff is fun, for playing around in public, because they apprecieate a big throw and catch and fast spinning, where as spinners know what goes in to contact
Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars
Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Contact is more difficult. The only staff I enjoy playing with when it's not on fire is throws for my doubles and contact. Because the reason I love this stuff it to continually learn and improve...
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
you have to explain what contact is to alot of people i find.
not all twirlers have internet connections/travel
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Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
I like my contact but do a bit of the spinney stuff. thing is my staff is very heavy and not so good for the spinney stuff as once it's moving quickly he never wants to stop. so i have different staffs for different styles..
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
its just cause contact has so much more technical space to grow into, and spinny stuff is fairly limited in terms of movements beyond a certain point. i'm not saying there isn't space, or that there aren't incredibly good exponents of this style, just that at the moment all the new innovative stuff is coming in contact(exceping RHD of couse
) and so i reckon it'll be for the next couple of years. and of course, relative noobs always follow trends... so hen RHD were in the country, the throws that people were learning were incredible. now they're gone, it's back to the contact grindstone it would seem....(and i did at least two throws at falmouth
)
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
My apologies, I was probably in my tent.
Failing that, you might have done 2 of the 8
So basically, people like contact because of the control they get. However DeepSoulSheep said it was more difficult. So should you learn that first or do Spinny stuff first? Any other's got an opinion here?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
i think you need to learn the basic spinny stuff first coz contact moves need to be joined up. always good to learn your basic spins first or you'll get nowhere...always annoys me when i'm playing and a noob picks up a staff watchesme "trying" to do the matrix and they say
"how do you do that...can you show me?"
when they can't even spin the stick without dropping it. you gotta learn to walk before you run.
I got no probs showing people how to do stuff but frustrating when you know your wasting your time coz theydon't understand what your talking about
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Er.... Dance! (?)
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom
definately learn spinny spinny stuff first - there isnt alot of it to start with and you get to hold the stick with your hands - kind of vital for a beginner......
Thing i found is alot of contact moves come from spinny spinny stuff, just a little more developed.
Take and over head pinwheeel for instance, doing this spinny spinny is easy, your arms are extended high above your head and the stafff goen high and low behind you back - no?
Ok now at the high poin of the pinwheel dont put your hands high, the staffs natural travel is across the shoulders - ie. a halo roll.
If you didnt understand the basics of spinny spinny, learning the halo could be a harder concept to grasp for someone first attempting.
Say all that - i sometimes teach complete newbies a halo before the spinny spinny, just so they slow the stick down as alot of first timers love speed and minimal control
Contact is a great artform to actually slow right down and think about where you putting the stick, rather than just following its pre determined path through fast spinning.
All in all - contact opens way more doors than non contact........
And just for the record i threw a minimum of 20 staffs at Falmouth - with julian
8 throws out of at least 120 people playing ? i rekon you spent way too much time in that tent
"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Aye - I was regularly dropping my doubles (Pesky one handed shower...) most of Falmouth...
As people have said, you need to learn the spinny stuff, if for no other reason than to link your contact stuff
It also teaches good circles and plane control.
Ideally, a good staff spinner would use a mix of spinny, throwy and contacty stuff in one burn
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Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Actually, I think I spent more time in Polarity's tent; blame him for luring me in with origami, scoobies and Unreal Tournament on his laptop
But you get my point, not a lot of people were doing throws or non-contact stuff, especially with fire. I exempt doubles from this, because they're a form of their own.
OK, so the impression I get is that after you learn the stuff on the free video lessons, you should move onto contact? Cos I can do everything on the vids, plus some more spinny spinny stuff. Can someone recommend ways of learning contact solo? Because the guy who showed me non-contact stuff doesn't really do *any* contact. Websites, people to harass with PMs etc etc would all be appreciated.
I tried doing some basic rolls, and sucked at them, and could do with someone telling me where I go wrong!
Thanks again everyone,
Ross
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Do a search
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
https://void.printf.net/~meghan/
i assume you found this lol
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Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
TY Durbs, I realised about 10 minutes after I posted that I should have searched... Sorry!
Thanks yoni, I've been to Meg's site, and it's currently the foundation of my contact learning atempts.
Go Meg!
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
i initially learnt contact in isolation, best advice i can give u is play infront of a reflective surface, not only do u get to spend the whole time looking at yourself u get a better perspective of what your doing wrong.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
Member
23 posts
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire, United Kingdom
i agree, you definatly need to learn to walk before you can run but i find it strange that most of the people at falmouth were only doing contact. i find that by mixing the two you get a greater effect, especially wen the staff is on fire. fast spinning to begin with, then moving on to the slower contact. the differences in speed provide good variety and make a good show...i would even go as far as to say that spinning before contact makes the contact look even better because of the contrast between the two styles.
wish i had gone to falmouth...i only live 40 odd miles away! next time......
lurking like a ninja with no camouflage..
926 posts
Location: over yonder, New Zealand
yeah i started out with basic spinny stuff, but started to learn a bit of contact a month or two ago, i love using my body to control it...
but the halo...when you say the staff goes over the shoulders, does it turn in the middle of the shoulders, or just roll straight over the top? im trying to get more moves involving my back but finding it a bit difficult to balance it alot of the time,. but i guess its probably just practise, unless anyone has any tips?
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just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
watch videos theres lots of them in the videos section
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
newbie
21 posts
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, United Kingdom
hey all, just read through all of that and it all makes good sense (aye im new enough to need to know better) but i have a question and im sure it may come down to personal pref but which is better for contact/spinny stuff would you have a long staff for spinny and a short for contact or vie versa?
Really need to get to this thing at the civic and get some pointers.
Only had my lil firestaff for a few months can do a few spinny things fairly good but nt many contact moves.
actually while im here can any of you suggest a few good starting contact moves?
Cheers
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom
Depends on your height i guess, but on average i find a staff anything above 140cm is good for contact.
As for basic starting moves, paly with neck rolls, elbow to wrist rolls and maybe some arm rolls too.
"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."
Fool
2,020 posts
Location: Cornwall, UK
Written by: ben-ja-men
best advice i can give u is play infront of a reflective surface
"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."
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old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
watch a couple of vids.
then chuck a stick on your back.
then see what happens.
if the same thing keeps happening keep practicing untill its smooth.
then watch more vids.
then keep practicing.
"Don't do it naked!"
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
I like mags's post, very zen.
But I still say: DANCE! Before after and during contact and non-contact.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Living it up
363 posts
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film
veteran
1,240 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
love you kyle!! thats hilarious Only when you close your eyes can you really see...
Living it up
363 posts
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia
OT, but only by a teeny weeny bit.I'm a bit wary of breaking down stick stuffage in to schools of technique (eg contact or throws). I've seen people play with really wonderful styles, but find that to my eye it is usally thier movement that gives it all a distinct taste, and this can transcend technique to an extent. Some techniques are just a bit harder to learn to move with..
As for needing to learn non contact before contact, maybe if you are learning in order to play with fire (which I suppose would be the majority of folks here) then great idea. But there's lots of folks who are starting to learn it more as an improv/movement/balance sort of thing. Personally I like both, but just I guess I'm just trying to say it all depends why you're playing in the first place.
:end ramble:
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film
newbie
21 posts
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, United Kingdom
tis all good and all ver usefull. well my staff be about 4ft fire.
Canb do basic throwing and catching and after being down at the civic the other day got a few ideas for some contact moves i wanna try out.
anyone know anywhere no9t online i can get a copy of the COL dvds?
aint really tried looking much as a) im feeling lazy right now and b) i work nightshift so all the shops keep closing before i get out of bed lol.
dont matter too much as could always order em online just dont wanna wait for post. ok so im impatiently lazy
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