Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Should there be a windmill in my fountain??!!
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
member
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Location: Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
member
83 posts
Location: Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Posted:
ok so i'm still kinda new at this poi thing so please be gentle with me...
i've done the search and found some conflicting advice....
please can someone clear this up for me cos at the moment there is definately a windmill in there and i dont know if there sould be arrgghh .....
ok so i'm still kinda new at this poi thing so please be gentle with me...
i've done the search and found some conflicting advice....
please can someone clear this up for me cos at the moment there is definately a windmill in there and i dont know if there sould be arrgghh .....
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
3rd search result, 3 posts down.
Written by: Pyrolific
make sure you can do a forward weave. Then check that you can do a reverse weave. Then as long as you can do a windmill - you have the components of a fountain. go from fwd weave to reverse weave to windmill and back to forward weave without moving your feet (you need to pivot and twist a bit - but its not contortion) you are doing a fountain. now it can be more technically described in terms of beats, carries, etc, but dont stress about it too much.
3rd search result, 3 posts down.
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Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Do you want there to be windmills in your fountains? A true fountain does NOT have a windmill in it. However, theres nothing wrong with adding one if you so choose.
Do you want there to be windmills in your fountains? A true fountain does NOT have a windmill in it. However, theres nothing wrong with adding one if you so choose.
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Location: Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
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Posted:
SEE your all doing it again ones says there is and one says there isn't
whats a girl to think........
ICoN i'm inclined to agree with you i like it there so there is where it's gonna stay. its a fountain with a twist, um well a mill i guess.
SEE your all doing it again ones says there is and one says there isn't
whats a girl to think........
ICoN i'm inclined to agree with you i like it there so there is where it's gonna stay. its a fountain with a twist, um well a mill i guess.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
If it was a windmill then how could it be a fountain.
I agree, most confusing.
Do all the circles in front for the full-fountain. Go behind as an optional extra, then reach up high for another circle.
There is an example of a “real proper” fountain in the video sample “the art of club swinging” at media circus
https://www.mediacircus.biz/
Click for video samples.
GooD LucK
Cheers
If it was a windmill then how could it be a fountain.
I agree, most confusing.
Do all the circles in front for the full-fountain. Go behind as an optional extra, then reach up high for another circle.
There is an example of a “real proper” fountain in the video sample “the art of club swinging” at media circus
https://www.mediacircus.biz/
Click for video samples.
GooD LucK
Cheers
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Posted:
To clear it up, the fountain does contain the movement of the windmill, but only for one beat, and you can learn the fountain without learning the windmill. Technically it does not include a windmill as it only passes through it in a moment and a pure fountain does not pause, it is a continous movement of circles round a bigger circle.
To do a fountain you need to be able to do:
forwards 3 beat weave
backwards 3 beat weave
Weave turn, both directions.
A fountain is whats classed as a non-turning turn. This basically means your body turns but your feet and head remain facing forwards to give the illusion you are not actually turning.
so you start by doing a forwards 3 beat weave, but then turn your head and feet 90degrees so they are facing front and you are doing the weave to your side in the wall plane. then turn the weave to the other side, low, without moving your feet but twisting your body. the weave pattern should now be on your other side in the wall plane. Then turn in the same way, this time reaching high to your start position.
This is the base of the fountain. Once you can do this you eliminate the extra beats at either side of your body so it becomes a continous pattern (that looks like small circles moving in a large one). You are going strainght from one turn into the next.
Hope that helps!
EDITED_BY: pricklyleaf (1124540213)
To clear it up, the fountain does contain the movement of the windmill, but only for one beat, and you can learn the fountain without learning the windmill. Technically it does not include a windmill as it only passes through it in a moment and a pure fountain does not pause, it is a continous movement of circles round a bigger circle.
To do a fountain you need to be able to do:
forwards 3 beat weave
backwards 3 beat weave
Weave turn, both directions.
A fountain is whats classed as a non-turning turn. This basically means your body turns but your feet and head remain facing forwards to give the illusion you are not actually turning.
so you start by doing a forwards 3 beat weave, but then turn your head and feet 90degrees so they are facing front and you are doing the weave to your side in the wall plane. then turn the weave to the other side, low, without moving your feet but twisting your body. the weave pattern should now be on your other side in the wall plane. Then turn in the same way, this time reaching high to your start position.
This is the base of the fountain. Once you can do this you eliminate the extra beats at either side of your body so it becomes a continous pattern (that looks like small circles moving in a large one). You are going strainght from one turn into the next.
Hope that helps!
EDITED_BY: pricklyleaf (1124540213)
Live like there is no tomorrow,
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addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
Personally, i think its totall madness that the eaisest move in the universe is the hardest to explain!
I agree... no windmill.
Personally, i think its totall madness that the eaisest move in the universe is the hardest to explain!
I agree... no windmill.
SILVER Member
newbie
1 post
Location: United Kingdom
newbie
1 post
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Well, I learnt the fountain via Michal Kahn's book and her version of the fountain is weave going forwards and backwards but when it goes across in front, reaching low, and when it goes above, reaching up high (i.e. windmill). However, she says there are many different things that people call a fountain so I'm not sure there's anything "official".
Well, I learnt the fountain via Michal Kahn's book and her version of the fountain is weave going forwards and backwards but when it goes across in front, reaching low, and when it goes above, reaching up high (i.e. windmill). However, she says there are many different things that people call a fountain so I'm not sure there's anything "official".
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
depends what you mean by official
if you go by the oldest recorded definition (that i know of) of the fountain, there is no windmill in it.
but a fountain is more like a family of moves now with tonnes of variations.
but i still say, a fountain doesn't have a windmill in it.
but you can add one to a fountain and it looks great (especially if you add a watermill at the bottom and some buzzsaw on either side).
any more clear?
no?
then don't worry about it and just keep spinning, just keep spin-ing...
cole. x
depends what you mean by official
if you go by the oldest recorded definition (that i know of) of the fountain, there is no windmill in it.
but a fountain is more like a family of moves now with tonnes of variations.
but i still say, a fountain doesn't have a windmill in it.
but you can add one to a fountain and it looks great (especially if you add a watermill at the bottom and some buzzsaw on either side).
any more clear?
no?
then don't worry about it and just keep spinning, just keep spin-ing...
cole. x
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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
No windmill in a fountain. Just a 3 beat weave whilst moving your hands down low when spinning forwards and up high when spinning backwards.
But you can add other stuff into it, like a windmill at the top, a waist wrap at the bottom, you could bouce wrap and ping pong down low or up high. ANything you like.
But lets just get it in context, a windmill, is just a 2 beat weave done generally in the wall planes in front and behind the head. A fountain is just a variation on a 3 beat weave pattern. So that's why you can mix them up so easily.
my guess is that techy purists will tell you there is no windmill in a fountain.
flowy dancers will tell you there is.
neither is right or wrong, we just all use the same words to mean different things.
Have fun,
m
No windmill in a fountain. Just a 3 beat weave whilst moving your hands down low when spinning forwards and up high when spinning backwards.
But you can add other stuff into it, like a windmill at the top, a waist wrap at the bottom, you could bouce wrap and ping pong down low or up high. ANything you like.
But lets just get it in context, a windmill, is just a 2 beat weave done generally in the wall planes in front and behind the head. A fountain is just a variation on a 3 beat weave pattern. So that's why you can mix them up so easily.
my guess is that techy purists will tell you there is no windmill in a fountain.
flowy dancers will tell you there is.
neither is right or wrong, we just all use the same words to mean different things.
Have fun,
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
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Pooh-Bah
2,444 posts
Location: Bristol !!!!!!, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
2,444 posts
Location: Bristol !!!!!!, United Kingdom
Posted:
i vote no windmill.
i vote no windmill.
Gayle.....!
SILVER Member
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Location: Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
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Location: Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Posted:
thanks all for you help
you've definately given me some stuff to think about !
ta.
thanks all for you help
you've definately given me some stuff to think about !
ta.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
If there is no windmill than I would say there at least has to be a high/low cycle in the transitions...
If there is no windmill than I would say there at least has to be a high/low cycle in the transitions...
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Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
I vote no windmill.
I vote no windmill.
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
spherculist I think u had it right when u said “No windmill in a fountain.” From there it seems to be spinning backwards.
Why are poiers obsessed with the 3 beat weave?
I think people would be better spinners if they understood that that the fountain, and other base moves are 2 beat moves. The fountain is a 2 beat move joined by the “under over”. Therefore, the fountain is a variation on a 2 beat weave pattern, not a three beat pattern. Get it?
Windmills are a follow move. They go behind the head. The waist wrap is also known as the lower fountain. This ain’t got anything to do with flowy dancers or techy stuff, just basic “nuts and bolts” stuff.
cheers
spherculist I think u had it right when u said “No windmill in a fountain.” From there it seems to be spinning backwards.
Why are poiers obsessed with the 3 beat weave?
I think people would be better spinners if they understood that that the fountain, and other base moves are 2 beat moves. The fountain is a 2 beat move joined by the “under over”. Therefore, the fountain is a variation on a 2 beat weave pattern, not a three beat pattern. Get it?
Windmills are a follow move. They go behind the head. The waist wrap is also known as the lower fountain. This ain’t got anything to do with flowy dancers or techy stuff, just basic “nuts and bolts” stuff.
cheers
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
AHHHH! WHAT YEAR IS IT?!?
OK, I'll be nice. Here is my official stance on the issue.
"A fountain is originally a club spinning move that did not have a windmill component. Due to the beauty of the internet, it has been misdefined SO many times by so many people that it now often times includes the windmill inclusive variant."
Other words that have changed in history include the word 'moot' which originally meant 'still argueable and relevant' but has been misused so many times since it's inception that it now mean 'not still argueable and no longer relevant.'
Another interesting side note: Americans originally called aluminum aluminium and the Brits originally called it aluminum. Somewhere early on, both sides switched.
True story.
So no, no windmill.
AHHHH! WHAT YEAR IS IT?!?
OK, I'll be nice. Here is my official stance on the issue.
"A fountain is originally a club spinning move that did not have a windmill component. Due to the beauty of the internet, it has been misdefined SO many times by so many people that it now often times includes the windmill inclusive variant."
Other words that have changed in history include the word 'moot' which originally meant 'still argueable and relevant' but has been misused so many times since it's inception that it now mean 'not still argueable and no longer relevant.'
Another interesting side note: Americans originally called aluminum aluminium and the Brits originally called it aluminum. Somewhere early on, both sides switched.
True story.
So no, no windmill.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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Posted:
spherculist you dont even have to do it low or high, but it looks prettier, you can even do it in a big circle, low forwards, low backwards, high backwards (windmill if you so desire) high forwards
spherculist you dont even have to do it low or high, but it looks prettier, you can even do it in a big circle, low forwards, low backwards, high backwards (windmill if you so desire) high forwards
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Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
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Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'll post in here so it saves me beginning a similar thread about fountains.
Is there such a thing as a giant fountain??? (i.e. hands not at shoulder/waist height but really stretching yourself from as high as you can to as low as you can without hitting the ground)
I'll post in here so it saves me beginning a similar thread about fountains.
Is there such a thing as a giant fountain??? (i.e. hands not at shoulder/waist height but really stretching yourself from as high as you can to as low as you can without hitting the ground)
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Posted:
its difficult and tangly, but i think i did it one, im gonna go try!!
its difficult and tangly, but i think i did it one, im gonna go try!!
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big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that description sounds like a normal fountain to me tink.
the big circle is what makes it a fountain and not just a wallplane fwd to rev 3bt weave.
cole. x
that description sounds like a normal fountain to me tink.
the big circle is what makes it a fountain and not just a wallplane fwd to rev 3bt weave.
cole. x
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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
"Giant" refers to the center of rotation of the poi and the corresponding radius of the circle. Almost anything can be done anywhere on the "Giant-Extended-Regular-Isolated-Point Isolated" spectrum. Just like you can do almost any move 'fast' or 'slowly' you can also extend it into larger or smaller circles.
So yes, you can do a 'giant fountain quickly' or a 'slow isolated fountain'
Written by: Tinklepants
Is there such a thing as a giant fountain??? (i.e. hands not at shoulder/waist height but really stretching yourself from as high as you can to as low as you can without hitting the ground)
"Giant" refers to the center of rotation of the poi and the corresponding radius of the circle. Almost anything can be done anywhere on the "Giant-Extended-Regular-Isolated-Point Isolated" spectrum. Just like you can do almost any move 'fast' or 'slowly' you can also extend it into larger or smaller circles.
So yes, you can do a 'giant fountain quickly' or a 'slow isolated fountain'
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
enlightened
187 posts
Location: montreal
187 posts
Location: montreal
Posted:
I vote for a worlwide HOP convention. with a comitte and all to discuss, debate, and finally define all moves; combinations, variations etc.
Perhaps even establish a Poi dictionary
I vote for a worlwide HOP convention. with a comitte and all to discuss, debate, and finally define all moves; combinations, variations etc.
Perhaps even establish a Poi dictionary
it must be green
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with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Posted:
In theory I supose it would be possible to do a giant fountain with your arms compleatly outstretched but in practice , like Cole said it would look like a normal fountain as your arms are outstreched when you do that anyway. Stretching them out in other parts stops it looking like a fountain.
In theory I supose it would be possible to do a giant fountain with your arms compleatly outstretched but in practice , like Cole said it would look like a normal fountain as your arms are outstreched when you do that anyway. Stretching them out in other parts stops it looking like a fountain.
Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.
“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.”
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old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
Hey Joulz, where have you been for the last 12 months? that's what we've just done
And there's even a bit about fountains
The Poidia
m
Written by: joulz
I vote for a worlwide HOP convention. with a comitte and all to discuss, debate, and finally define all moves; combinations, variations etc.
Perhaps even establish a Poi dictionary
Hey Joulz, where have you been for the last 12 months? that's what we've just done
And there's even a bit about fountains
The Poidia
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
hehehl spherculist, now I know kaos rules supreme
trick question: wot’s the difference b/t a windmill and the overhead weave?
Ummm NYC, it’s a moot point, but are you saying that you don’t support things like preserving culture and the reintroduction of Maori and Gaelic languages back into the education system, for example?
hehehl spherculist, now I know kaos rules supreme
trick question: wot’s the difference b/t a windmill and the overhead weave?
Ummm NYC, it’s a moot point, but are you saying that you don’t support things like preserving culture and the reintroduction of Maori and Gaelic languages back into the education system, for example?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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