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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:id like to say that this **is** a reaction to various posts on social chat, and would like to voice my opinion here in as an adult manner as i can manage

firstly i fail (slightly) to see many of the arguments against post whoring - the bandwidth argument especailly correct me if im wrong but ultimatly the bandwidth for the actual forums will not be exessivly affected by the addition of a post - even several 1000 posts - i mean whats the size of a post? a matter of Kb if that even 1000 of those is only 10Mb and while i know there are several hundred thousand posts that still does not even begin to touch the kind of bandwidth a site like this runs on.

on a similar vein arguing that pm's should be used will not save bandwidth - the messages are still stored though pm's should be used for other reasons - such as basically personal conversations

i agree that repeated posting is a waste of space and makes many threads unreadable - although i am guilty of doing this on occasion - so does having ream upon ream of people exactly the same thing

its often said that post whores take up a lot of the bandwidth space *but* as far as i can see at least they tend to say something new. so many otherwise interesting discussions and topics get flooded by people repeating the same points.

and i release im probably going to get accused of flamming for this. accused of being an idiot but seriously - how much damage does a silly thread do? ok threads started for the hell of having a thread are a waste, so tell a mod and have it deleted. but dont just yell at people who post a lot. try making a thread and then keep people on topic - its not just the mods who can moderate a forum - if you have one keep the conversation going and change the direction

but if you have a forum called social chat - dont you think people will?

ok so thats the end of this and i know it sounds like a rant so please take whats said with a pinch of salt and not as a personal insult

also any PM's asking for this to me removed etc (or just general insults) please head - post whore - so i know and for my own amusment

finally where do you fall?


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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:yay doc hug and ditto



and hug to seye i liked your reply too biggrin

EDITED_BY: linden rathen (1123797632)


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: flid

Some people take things like forums really seriously, perhaps a little too much, and get really pissed off when new people move in and act like they own the place/challenging the existing status-quo.



Ok. Excuse me. I'm going to say something that sounds arrogant and probably downright rude.

As one of the most senior members of this board (meaning how long I've been involved), people who get their knickers in a twist over talkative newbies need to TAKE A FRIGGIN' PILL. I mean, people just posting to post and not contributing are one thing, but, my view: if you're contributing to what makes this a wonderful community, then come right in, pull up a beanbag, grab a pair of poi, and join the fray!

It's a community, after all. People come and they go. I'm just happy to see people getting involved. And, by all means, newbies, feel free to PM me with random daftness. Don't be afraid. After all, it's all in good fun.

-Doc "I'm not a legend, I'm just *OLD*" Lightning


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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yoni
GOLD Member since Jun 2005

yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath, United King...

Total posts: 3099
Posted:i have now stopped posting so much as untill recently i was unaware it annoyed so many hoppers.
i have noticed in the last month how much social chat has changed though because for the first month i got here it was a much better place i feel than now when there is soo much pointlessness which i shamefully i admit i have taken part in. but i have also noticed that now it has gone from one extreem to another and people are afraid to say anything, and i have met so many great people on here that i do not want to lose hop and i would also like to meet many of the older hoppers who have been "scared off" from social chat and a few other threads by pointless posting. so i feel maybe in malcolms first pm he should warn the people because untill some one very recently had a polite word with me i was unaware i was annoying other hoppers and have now happily refrained from making some very pointless posts which i admitt to. i feel it is vr important that we keep this community as others have said because i have never in my life come across such a nice comunity as this.


UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:*is interested to see that nearly as many ppl admit to having post whored as claim to have never post whored*

just before this debate goes much further

what is the general consesus of what a post whore is?
someone who posts a lot?
someone who posts rubbish?
something in between?
someone who posts repeatedly in the same few threads?


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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Mike Ginny
Ok. Excuse me. I'm going to say something that sounds arrogant and probably downright rude.



My little sentence wasn't refering to me personally, but you should know that what i said is true. Sure some people do need a reality check, but there's also lots of people out there using the net with disabilities of some description (physical or mental) or other things (shyness etc) that make it hard to interact in the normal world, and find the online world a great outlet. Perhaps such people do take things a little too seriously and get involved a bit too much which is really just a web server to which you can submit text that other people can read, but if we're talking of it in terms of a community then they're part of it too, and telling someone to just take a chill pill is about as constructive as telling someone with depression to just get over it and stop being so stupid.

Written by: Seye
Flid - wasnt my answer about 'actual bandwidth consumption' good enough



I just thought i'd elaborate on it a bit more smile


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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:Im scared guys, im really worried our community is going to change so much cos of this, there is currently a lot of tension in cyberspace

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: flid

Written by: Mike Ginny
Ok. Excuse me. I'm going to say something that sounds arrogant and probably downright rude.



My little sentence wasn't refering to me personally, but you should know that what i said is true.



I know it had nothing to do with you, mate. And neither did my response. hug

Willy, the momentum's so great. It's not going to change.

And of course it will change. The more things change the more they stay the same.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Willyam
Im scared guys, im really worried our community is going to change so much cos of this, there is currently a lot of tension in cyberspace





it's ok, we'll all have a jolly good bonding session at play, perhaps even involving slapping each others arses. It'll all be good.



Worser things have happened on HoP before, thoughs on vegetarianism being one of them. And at least we haven't gotten as far as having to give someone their own entire forum to get them out of the normal threads again wink


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Oh lordy, don't remind me. And that phule who kept blundering about.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:what happened there, i trust that was before my time

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:will i dout this will change much

if the responce on the chat thread is anything to go by what'll happen is it will expierence a few days of quiteness and then ersume posting as normal - hopefulyl a little more sensibly and a little less whorishly

this communities too strong to be brocken by something like this. people know eachother outside of it and know how people really are compared to on here. as such attitudes will change people will change but im sure the comminuty will stay strong smile


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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:Hehe... even I've been around long enough to remember those tension-filled threads...

A good reminder, Flid. Although the pointless threads and post-whoring have been getting a little ridiculous, at least its not a nasty or vindictive atmosphere. Unintentional annoyances (I would assume, please correct me if I'm wrong, mods smile) are at least better to have to deal with than nastiness and HoP seems not to attract trolls like a lot of other online forums.

This is a happy thought smile


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:like i said polythene i think the number of poinless threads is partly due to it being summer and wet so a lot of people (uni/school age) are stuck at home w/ poi on the brain and no where to go tongue

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Nothing ever changes - I've had this discussion loads of times as a mod.

One time even predates the Doc's registering on this board. (Server fee's were much more expensive back in those days too wink )

Once a community becomes huge (I'm member #18035!) its only natural that some people stay in certain forums more than others. What you need is a Random Gibbering forum that auto prunes old posts so it doesnt take up server space or slow down the SQL processes.


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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:i think most communities (espcially online ones) have a 'critical mass' (not of people or posts more strength of group interest

below which the group will probably fall apart in to many very small groups (say 1 or 2 people) as ive seen happen to a few chat rooms after fights

above which it will keep going loosing and gaining people fairly evenly

and yes i know this is off topic and socail physics which is pretty dodgy but it seems to work

anyway back on topic

any suggestions for a definition of a postwhore?


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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:Written by: Seye

What you need is a Random Gibbering forum that auto prunes old posts so it doesnt take up server space or slow down the SQL processes.



i dont think we need a random gibbering forum at all


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:Sorry Linden, I was actually just really slow in replying to Flid's post, yours popped up while I was typing at tortoise speed! It was supposed to be saying 'it could be worse', not attacking the post whoring.

Although, (looking at Seye's post) I'm with Will on this one... while one or two random gibbering threads are fine, why on earth do we need an entire forum for identically nonsensical threads?

There are plenty of internet BBs about where every thread is full of random gibberings that Malcom doesn't pay for. If such a forum was to be introduced on HoP, I'd suggest it had to be subscribed to as an extra, with contributions to bandwidth. I wonder how many people would still want to start 50 threads about nothing at all if they had to pay for it themselves? wink


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:I agree with the general concensus on post-whoring. smile

I only posting to add name to the list who've lost interest in Social Chat. I've been away from HOP ages and it's bit of a shock to my system... I was never one for the games but there's loads of them now too.... smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:ubblol Flashpoint....I have to say, Cantus is a bad example for you to have chosen! All us "oldies" remember when he came on...he was HoP's first post-whore (and truthfully, the best at it!) and was competitive about it. He has, thankfully and wonderfully, mellowed out on that over time, but not without his fair share of having the mods on him. Ask him. I think it's funny and I am sure he'll fess up.



And truthfully, being "old" on here isn't an excuse Doc. I mean, look at Malcolm's count. In fact, many of us mods have been on here...well, longer than memory serves...and many new members far exceed us in counts, including you (keep in mind that several of us have been here since the late 90's when HoP was born, but then lost in the great transfer of 2000 wink ). hug



What is a post whore?

I concider it to be a person who posts excessively throughout a bb without actually creating posts with content (content being: contributing ideas, opinions or statements which add to a conversation, moving it forward.) usually with the intent to get a post count higher.



The point of social chat was not to have games or random gibberings. It was to talk about things that would not create a serious debate or a heavy discussion. Before the social forums were split, we had hellacious issues with people cracking jokes in an otherwise serious discussion, or hijacking a discussion someone wanted to be serious and turning it into something less than and it really caused issues. HoP was full of *much* more angst then, and has been more peaceful since the split. Yes it has gotten out of hand recently, but the games are labelled as such and that makes them easy to avoid. It is the "Give me a hug" threads that are just filled with graemlins, or the ones which are personal conversations, or filled with post after post of irrelevance, or started for irrelevence which we are concidering here.



And Willy, there really is nothing to worry about. This is such a small glitch in our peaceable kingdom compared to things that have happened in the past. HoP has had growing pains and they are truly not worth rehashing (as curious as flid and Doc's comments might make you) as they just stand to bring back some hard feelings that need not be thought of again. Really, it's all good..we just need to pull in the reigns a little is all. wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Written by: Pele

And Willy, there really is nothing to worry about. This is such a small glitch in our peaceable kingdom compared to things that have happened in the past. HoP has had growing pains and they are truly not worth rehashing (as curious as flid and Doc's comments might make you) as they just stand to rehash some hard feelings that need not be thought of again. Really, it's all good..we just need to pull in the reigns a little is all. wink



I wholeheartedly agree. In the past, I have lost sleep over HOP forum issues, however the current issue really isn't a big deal at all. It's like when you're at school and the teacher keeps the whole class back 5mins for talking too much. No big deal.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:there were worries too about what would happen to the culture on HoP when the level of cyberchatter necessitated the splitting of Social forum in two. Thing is, there's too many nice people here (and UCOF) and that in itself could be seen as an overriding drawcard.

Personally, i've never liked the term 'postwhore'
I understand the need for such a term, but surely there's less vulgar term available.
like 'fluffy puppies'
ahh that's so nice.

Written by: onewheeldave

Incidently, personally I'd love to see smilies removed from the board entirely- i use image blocking software when on HOP and the way it speeds up page loading really shows just how much bandwidth the smilies use up.

However, it's not something I'm going to particularly push for, as I know that the majority seem to think smilies are a really good idea.


sorry pal, completely disagree with this sentiment.
Smileys have given me much-many serotonin bursts over the years, and I'd have to be the most frugal byte-counter to have them removed from the board entirely.
even if HoP could WAP, i'd want to see smilies added there too!
for effect: hug2 heart


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:Written by: flash fire

Written by: Pele

And Willy, there really is nothing to worry about. This is such a small glitch in our peaceable kingdom compared to things that have happened in the past. HoP has had growing pains and they are truly not worth rehashing (as curious as flid and Doc's comments might make you) as they just stand to rehash some hard feelings that need not be thought of again. Really, it's all good..we just need to pull in the reigns a little is all. wink



I wholeheartedly agree. In the past, I have lost sleep over HOP forum issues, however the current issue really isn't a big deal at all. It's like when you're at school and the teacher keeps the whole class back 5mins for talking too much. No big deal.



I muchly like that metaphor ubblol


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I guess there's two types of people where smilies are concerned, those who actually get something from them, and those who tolerate them.

Possibly it's a similar distinction between those who think 'visually' and those who think in terms of 'hearing', and the way they respond better to different ways of phrasing information.

Whilst personally I don't understand how people can see any value in smilies, it's apparent to me that they do; equally I think it's good for those who do benefit from smilies also understand that some people get no benefit from them whatsoever.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:I dont see how people dont get any benefit from smilies, i think they are great, especially the hug one

and like i said i think it denotes sarcasm where otherwise people wouldnt know the tone in which one was speaking e.g.
God i hate you, or
god i hate you ubblol

which one seems like your messing around?


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:I think the random gibbering forum is a great idea. After 1 month the thread gets deleted. I mean how much of this random stuff do people actually go back and read up on? Very little. It's just an instant buzz, then forgotten forever. I mean why go back and look at an old pointless thread when you can just make a new one in minutes?

There's no point telling people they can't do something cos people will get annoyed. People on forums are gonna chat a load of rubbish from time to time so it's far more sensible to provide an area to do precisely that.

Also i'm not quite sure 'pointless' is the correct word to use because, for example, threads filled with *hugs* and *smiles* etc build on the sense of community, togetherness and friendship.

I don't really know how out of hand it is getting on hop, cos i just don't read those threads.

my 2 cents anyhow,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

Whilst personally I don't understand how people can see any value in smilies, it's apparent to me that they do...



I know you tolerate them already so I don't really have to tell you this... but one example is: for me as a non-native English speaker smileys are really helpful, like when someone says something in an ironic way, if there's a winkor tongue at the end I get the irony and it keeps me from getting offended about something that was a joke in the first place.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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blu_valley
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

blu_valley

fluffy mess
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 197
Posted:Wow....
*stands up and raises hand*
I too must admit to being a postwhore,but only in the sense that I have racked up a high post count in a relatively short amount of time. I must also admit that I did not know it bugged anybody, I apologise for that.I will not excuse myself for it though. The truth is I only access HOP at work. My job involves a lot of hanging around waiting for queries and the like to be processed so I have been given a pc for entertainment at work too, which leaves me floating around the HOP forums for the better part of my day. And in all fairness,it does say that that particular forum is for random daftness and nonsence...exactly what it says on the label.

I agree that even since I joined the face of social chat has changed dramatilcally and it's gotten a little out of hand (*trying really hard not to make mention of the many threads kept alive by gremlins alone*) But I love the games threads,I love the randomness and immaturity, and in all fairness, it is through threads like these that I have gotten to know a fair few people,and plucked up the courage to actually meet some of them,based largely on the fact that I have started getting to know them in a purly light-hearted and funny way.I'm in my twenties,I am immature for at least 80% of my day. Yes, I take part in the more serious forums,and find them very usefull, but it is social chat where I spend most of my time encouraging the sillyness,and I like to be able to communicate with the people I have gotten to know without them being online at the same time,ruling out the use of a chatroom, and I dont have access to msn or the like either.

Like I said,I apologise to those who do not like it, and going forward I will make an effort to avoid pointlessness and waste now that I know it bugs people,but I will not stop being random, immature and silly,sorry, that would just make my work-day unbearable.I will promise to tighten up my two cents.

I love HOP and think all the people who frequent it's forums are great, and the atmosphere is the best around. Maybe changing the structure a bit would help ease the situation,maybe the deletion of the most inactive and pointless threads is the way to go....

hug


"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:preciseley smile

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:I was going to post about the post whoreing thats been around recently...

But Sam beat me to it.

Over the last few months, Ive noticed that less and less of the HoP old skoolers are postinbg in chat, and are sticking to the intros.

This makes me sad, because their posts are always really worth reading. I somewhat feel responsible for the scaring off of these guys, because of the amount of garbage ive been posting.

For this Im sorry.


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:sorry FRD tongue this was (as i said) in reaction to a few threads over in chat smile

thank you guys for contributing so much as well smile

i thin this really did need talking about because although i feel that this is really a minor thing (having seen similar in other places) its also the sort of thing that if not talked about can easily ebcome major and cause lots of people to become upset etc

i have to agree with blu about the love of immaturity smile and i think sphereculism has a very good point about going through and getting rid of old stupid threads

maybe if everyone here went through and found say 5 old threads that either they created or that just died and sent them to the mdos we could get rid of some of the rubbish

and i will again appologise for ousting the old skoolers from the chat frown like FRD i feel partly responsible as i have seen a decline in your numbers and would love to see you back in there smile (feels like some conservationist)

smile oh and thank you so much for not just yelling at me biggrin tongue

i was kinda worried that id open a can of worms but i (if no one else) have found this really interesting to see peoples views smile

so new question from me.... (thank you pele for your definition of a post whore - any one else wanna give one?)

what would you think is the best way forward? lower the limit on the number of smileys?
more active 'moding' from the denizens of chat? (ie alerting mods to repeat threads rubbish posts etc)
a random gibberish forum that is purged every month or something
less game threads?


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