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Forums > Social Discussion > 60 years ago to day - Why do we have nuclear bombs?

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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:"Oh my god, what have we done???"
cried second pilot Robert Lewis, when the plane he was in was filled with incredible bright light.

At 8:15:17, morning on the 6th of august 1945, Lewis and the rest of the crew on the B-29 bomber "Enola Gay" a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima...
43 seconds later, the city was gone..

A number between 60 - 144.000 died from the inital blast..
Thousand later of the radiation..
ALL INNOCENT....

How on earth is these sort of actions defendable?
What drove Usa to this terrible and completely [censored] up act?

In my video President Truman, makes the statement that they destroyed Hiroshima's "usefulness to the enemy"... God, it makes me sick...

Sorry for this, just had to get it out..
The world was [censored] up then, and get's more and more [censored] up each day..
Bah...

FC


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:Written by: Ade

Written by: FlameChild

"Oh my god, what have we done???"
censored up act?
enemy"... God, it makes me sick...




thank you for sharing the poi4peace video hug

what an inspiration hug

thank you

Hiroshima Never Again



Thanks, Ade.
Your words warms.

I made the video a couple of years ago..
Technically it's not so good.
The spinning is shitty, but I was an amateur at the time. smile
But the important thing is the message.

hug right back


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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Spiderbaby
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Spiderbaby

c",
Location: , Ireland

Total posts: 199
Posted:Its very inefficient to produce and hard to produce too.
In the last ten years Cern have only produced about a millionth of a gram of it. But we may see the day.


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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:Written by: Spiderbaby

Its very inefficient to produce and hard to produce too.
In the last ten years Cern have only produced about a millionth of a gram of it. But we may see the day.



I sure as hell hope not..
Kind of like a double edged sword.
The production of antimatter would be the greatest breakthrough in history after the wheel, and poi.. biggrin
Do you think that mankind would be able to use this technology to do good?
Now that the modern world realise the horror of nukes.


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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Zacknasfien
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

Zacknasfien

member
Location: Scarborough, United Kingdom

Total posts: 25
Posted:The modern world has always realised the horrors of nukes. But man weilding all this power had to use to use it. And so it warped a few minds and so they decided to throw one or two on japan (nice).

Personaly antimatter could be used to do do. But if the Technology fell into the "wrong" hands thats where the trouble starts. Terrorists blow themselves up and take a city or 3 with them. It would start a new age of terrorisum.


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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:But as mentioned before, the production of antimatter would consume vast amounts of resources and technology, so the regular terrorist would be unable to use it for terrorsism.
Though one day, maybe you will get anti-matter technology in the size of lighters, but that I think, will not be in our lifetime.

Nukes however, are much more frightning in terrorsit hands.
I imagine that soon you will be able to put a nuke in a briefcase..


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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Zacknasfien
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

Zacknasfien

member
Location: Scarborough, United Kingdom

Total posts: 25
Posted:you all ready can my furry friend

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Hiroshima Day Commemoration, Melbourne 07.08.2005


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melbourne braved some shitty weather in the open...


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...and underneath the silly buildings.


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There were heaps of beautiful half japanese families coming together.
fitting that there was so much japanese life celebrated yesterday,


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Greenpeace dude.


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origami cranes, the symbol of the commemoration.


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a lot of rain made everyone huddle closer


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a performance piece featuring interpretive dance, flute, taiko drums and a Japanese diplomat on synths.


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a really sad japanese poem recited in japanese then english set to Cello


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the hightlight of the performances...a dance troupe tap dancing in traditional 'geta' clogs to taiko drumming.
I got most of the performance but have to compress it to be less than 391MB!!
Apparently these guys won in last year's fringe festival...


Non-Https Image Link

um i the sadness of the day made my arm all curvy.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:AH.. this looks very nice..
Thanks for posting the pictures, Bender!
Makes me warm inside. smile

I love the picture of the happy child..
He still don't know why they are there, he's just having fun..


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:beautiful bender.... thanks! ubbcrying but tears mixed with joy....

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Thanks Bender...

hug


Getting to the other side smile

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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:I think Bender's pictures sums it up..
Nuclear weapons must never never NEVER be allowed for use again...
We owe it to our children..
They must never live to see or hopefulle even hear about such horrors..

Thanks for the discussion..

*hugs to all*


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning

My father fought in WWII.

The problem with a nuclear bomb is that it's so amazingly destructive that it would be impossible to use it against a military target.

You have to realize that the Japanese military in WWII was a truly vicious force. They took prisoners...and tortured them to death. They used Kamikaze bombers. They were out to conquer the entire world.

I've read John Hersey's Hiroshima and I am very familiar with the horrors that happened there that day. I believe that had the US not dropped that bomb, many more would have died in general. After all, dying in a nuclear explosion doesn't make you any deader than being blown to bits by tons of conventional explosion.

The only thing I wish they'd done was to have dropped it on a Japanese military installation.

The Bomb was coming. Germany was working on it, too.



I have to admit I don't really understand you.

Yes, Germany was researching the nuclear bomb as well, but at the time the US set it off the leading German scientists had been imprisoned for quite a while, and the lab equipment had gone over to the Allies, so that's really a crap excuse. Besides, control of German forces after WW2 (once they were allowed to partially re-establish anyways) involved control by NATO for every move even in peace missions. So I can see how the US would've wanted to be the first to have the nuke developed and at their disposal, but to use it?

Yes, the Japanese military was a vicious force. This does go together with Japanese tradition and culture and a different view on things like torture and honour - like Japanese soldiers rather dying than being taking prisoner. This is no excuse for it though, but I don't think any army's behaviour justifies the killing of civilians as a response, "collateral damage" is bad enough (and a horrible term at that), but directly attacking them is worse.

The one thing I really don't get:
Japan wants to conquer the world. Their former allies have been defeated. Stupidly, Japan still decides to attack Pearl Harbour. As a result, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are bombed. You say the sacrifice is justified for the sake of other people's lives.
Yet on the other hand you think having your bag searched in the Metro to prevent bombings is a breach of human rights. I can't get this straight in my head frown

Sorry Doc, I'm not launching a personal attack, I think we just have a fundamentally different way of seeing things and I'm trying hard to understand yours but failing. hug

And Sethis, I see what you mean, but on the other hand it means that today people have a choice to join an army (in some countries...), and that there is still food coming in even though there's a war, as opposed to all men of a region being drafted. Luckily I've never been in a war, but the idea of direct combat, a field full of rotting stinking bodies, lots of swords or guns and too many people to even see who's on whose side doesn't appeal to me either. Though maybe it was more fair...? But then, wouldn't again the side with the most money have the bigger army, better weapons and protection and better supplies? Boo. I should stop thinking about wars...


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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FlameChild
SILVER Member since Jun 2002

FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...

Total posts: 136
Posted:To sum up again..
Either war or nukes are good..

Imagine the world without war...
How would it be?
Would the earth become a better place, society prospering and everyone happy?
Or would it be overpopulated and terrible diseases spreading and not enough food for all?

Do we need war?


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:About 6 months ago i built a computer to automatically record programs that meet my criteria of the kind of things I'm interested in, for me to watch at leisure whenever I feel like it. Tonight I watched Days the Shook the World: Hiroshima from BBC Four from 3rd August. If it's repeated any time (which I'm sure it probably will be) then it's well worth a watch to anyone interested.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by:
The one thing I really don't get:
Japan wants to conquer the world. Their former allies have been defeated. Stupidly, Japan still decides to attack Pearl Harbour. As a result, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are bombed. You say the sacrifice is justified for the sake of other people's lives.
Yet on the other hand you think having your bag searched in the Metro to prevent bombings is a breach of human rights. I can't get this straight in my head



I don't see how they're mutually exclusive. Killing one life to save ten is probably a good exchange, given no other choice.

But the key is that Japan was out for world DOMINATION. I say liberty before life. I'll kill and/or be killed before I give up liberty.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand

Total posts: 625
Posted:Ernest Rutherford started it all. Isn't it ironic that he was from a country that hates anything nuclear.

I think this subject is alot bigger than it seems. NZ is coming into a stage where we are re-evaluating our nuclear stance. I think the main reason we are so against it (other than being evil), is because it creates waste. They simply dump their nuclear waste in our waters. eek Or drop bombs in our waters frown

And then when we protest against it. The french sendterrorists to bomb the rainbow warrior. And they got away with it. (Imagine if they did that in America!)

This was all after David Lange defied America and Australia by not allowing them to bring nuclear weapons into NZ. ( I was lucky to watch a re-run of the anti nuclear debate at Oxford last night)

The worst part was the "big brother" syndrome of them trying to force us to follow their views, and when we didnt, they punished us by cutting us off totally...

Iv lost where i was going with all this except to say "it is very dangerous to assume that anything nuclear is *safe*" For anyone who actually cares about the world, please please read David's speach Nuclear Weapons are Morally Indefensible


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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand

Total posts: 625
Posted:Oh and both my grandfathers faught in WWII.



Written by:


I'll kill and/or be killed before I give up liberty.

True, but my liberty is the right NOT to have nuclear $hit forced upon us.



Written by:
I hold that the character of nuclear weapons is such that their very existence corrupts the best of intentions; that the means in fact perverts the end. And I hold that their character is such that they have brought us to the greatest of all perversions: the belief that this evil is necessary - as it has been stated tonight - when in fact it is not.



David Lange


EDITED_BY: Dragon7 (1124162792)


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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...

Total posts: 1228
Posted:Written by:
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today." US President Theodore Roosevelt, 1906.





Written by:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson







The people who own the media and the arms producers, the banks, and many other large corporations are the ones who have the true power in the world.



In first few years of WWII 30% of the iron, and much of the explosives and fuel used by Germany were provided by companies based in the US.



The current US president's grandfather was found guilty of trading with the enemy, because the bank he was in charge of was financing the supply of iron to Germany.



In addition, organisations he and other powerful banking and corporate figures were associated with funded Hitlers political campaign and rise to power.



The history of WWII as portrayed in the media or taught in schools does not contain the whole truth, as these people own the media, and have more say as to government policy than the public (so can say what may be taught).





Nukes do have a purpose for the kind of people who will play at war with the lives of millions, just so they can have more profit and power. They are a very good way to herd the masses through fear and intimidation.


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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DenGad
GOLD Member since Jun 2005

member
Location: Copenhagen, DK, Denmark

Total posts: 45
Posted:Two men, termpers hot and egos flaming, stand before eachother each holding a knife.
They both know that if any one of them starts an attack, one or both is going to get really hurt.
One says "Put down the knife", the other says "you first".
Maybe they can agree to put them down at the same time, a knife is not that fast at range, maybe they feel confident enough to trust eachother.

Same scenario, with guns. Somehow it's less simple. The weapon is faster, more destructive. Trust is harder to come by.
It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Nukes? Stored away, hidden even...
I can well imagine why even though no-one would use them, they are very hard to get rid of.
It shouldn't be that way, but it is..
at least as long as people refuse to, or think they are unable to,
change the way they think about it.

The world can be a scary place, but only because we've made it that way.


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Dengad, the scenario is worse than than that, There is now the horrible policy of pre-emption!
so the other doesn't even have to strike, or for that matter any WMDs....


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...

Total posts: 1228
Posted:US and GB have been using depleted uranium ammunition in both gulf wars, which is probably worse than using nukes. There's no huge explosion, but depleted uranium is still radioactive and highly toxic, and has a half life of 4.7 billion years. There's only a small amount used in a bomb, but hundreds of tons of DU have been scattered over the whole of Iraq.

You won't see it on the news, but the birth defects resulting from this are truly horrific, both for the Iraqis and returning troops. Babies are being born with no limbs, no eyes, or even inside out.



http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/xArchives/2005/19_Issue/Default.htm
br>
http://www.citypages.com/databank/24/1182/article11417.asp


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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DenGad
GOLD Member since Jun 2005

member
Location: Copenhagen, DK, Denmark

Total posts: 45
Posted:Bender, sadly I know. I tried to describe basic human foolishness in a simple way.
The full extent of reality is mindbogglingly worse.
Despite war being a horrible excuse for not having a clue how to solve your problems, I kind of understood the idea of a pre-emptive strike within a war.
The concept of a pre-emptive war is inexcusable.
Using the concept of "war on terror" to disregard basic human rights is beyond words.

/Dennis


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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs..., United Ki...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:Right... First I want to apologise, as I may inflame people here with my viewpoint, so hug and sorry... This is only my humble opinion, and not what I believe to be fact, and is subject to change with better arguments... Please tell me if I get something wrong!

Point number 1.
Nuclear science is good. Without it we will be stuck on this planet till the sun blows up. I for one want to human race to last forever...

Point number 2.
Nuclear weapons generally are bad. The inevitability of science making a breakthrough at the time of WW2 is unfortunate, as we lacked the understanding to know truly what "dirty bombs", that which were used in WW2 (yes, the ones the terrorists are supposed to be getting) were capable of. I believe (fact open here, as I cant be sure) that the US did not know about nuclear radiation sickness, and had only done tests on the destructiveness of the bombs. The morals of dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki came down, at the end (dammit) to numbers. Scary but true.

Point number 3.
The only way a nuclear bomb will get blown up in a city is by terrorists. The leaders of the industrialised nations would (i hope) never drop a 20 megaton hydrogen bomb on a city cos of (ha) the bad press they would get.

Point number 4.
I hate nuclear weapons, but I understand their necessity. Maybe (and I hope this is true) the terrorists are holding back on "deploying" their bombs because they know that GWB can and probably will make turn most of the holy land into pretty, but highly dangerous glass. No chance for the Muslim State they all want.

Lets get something straight. The human race needs nuclear energy, not fission but fusion, to make cheap and almost limitless power production for the planet. Yet magnetic containment cannot even contain a hydrogen plasma yet, never mind sustain a fusion reaction...

War is sometimes nescessary. Without it we could not defend ourselves from people who want to hurt us because of what god we worship, or what way we live our lives.

In WW1 millions of people died because there was a huge change in the way wars were fought, and most of the generals hadn't realised it yet.

In WW2 new weapons were developed that made this new type of war impossible between superpowers. The new state was MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.

In the cold war, no civilians were overtly killed because of the new weapons, see above...

Now in the war on terror, to defeat these new enemies, new tactics have to be employed. We still havent got there yet...

IM(VF)HO

My 2c, Cheers, Pete


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom

Total posts: 464
Posted:Can we put thing into prospective? As we commemorate for the lives lost in Hiroshima and Nagazaki, the Japanese government still refuse to acknowledge for the crimes they have commited during the Second World War. Their text books have ommited key events and informations. And come on, lets be logical here. During the war, we were dealing with an enemy capable of killing themselves to cause damage and destruction. And the thing about not killing civilians? Has anyone here even heard of the Rape of Nanking? Could someone please read up in detail what the Japanese did before blaming the use of nukes?

And if you look at it from another prospective, everytime mankind comes up with a new discovery, it is pretty much always motivated by war (iron for arms, gunpowder for guns, a whole set of mathematics developed just for the use catapults). If you ask a seasoned historian, s/he will tell you that the best catalyst for technological advancement is war. Its human nature, you can't change it just like you can't stop a human from loving! The drive to survive is always greater than the need for improvement. The second world war and cold war have dramatically increased the advance in nuclear technology we had in the past 100 years! And what happens when the fossil fuel reserve finally runs dry and nuclear fusion became a neccessity. If it wasn't for nuclear arms, nuclear technology would be a lot less developed than it is now. And even so, we are still relatively behind in the race to prevent the fuel crisis from happening.

So lets sit back and look at it from 100 years. Was gunpowder an invention for good or evil? Well, they named the Nobel Peace Prize after its inventor!


Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Written by: =Flashpoint=

In the cold war, no civilians were overtly killed because of the new weapons, see above...




A bit off-topic really but you said to correct you if you were wrong!

In the context of open war you're right, that's why it's called the Cold War. But there have been hundreds of people in East Germany killed when demonstrating against separation of the country and the building of the wall, which used to be a national holiday in the West to commemorate their lives. Many more have been killed when trying to escape to the West, because the East government could not openly admit that people would rather live in the capitalist west. I know it's nothing compared to the numbers in the world wars, but it's an important bit of history for me smile


Written by: Alien_Concept

the Japanese government still refuse to acknowledge for the crimes they have commited during the Second World War.



The Japanes prime minister has formally apologised this week for the crimes after being criticised for the textbooks you mention.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom

Total posts: 464
Posted:Written by: Birgit

The Japanes prime minister has formally apologised this week for the crimes after being criticised for the textbooks you mention.



Erm... Prime Minister Murayama have offered similar formal apology at a ceremony marking 50th anniversary of WWII ten years ago, right before Japan started changing their textbook to omit various facts and information. There is a big difference between making a formal apology and acknowledging one's mistakes.


Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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