Forums > Other Toys > Amazing Fire Orb Creating!

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Alfred
Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 149
Posted:How does one suspend a wick with thin wire?

Does the wick have to be round?

do you use a swivel?

Does the wire heat up?

What kind of wire is the best?

and what wick size?

and how long should the wire be from the wick?

Do you need to add a handle of some sort?



Meenik has a picture of it in his gallery.Beautiful stuff.Please help me out.Have you seen it?yes/no/maybe/its a secret? umm

EDITED_BY: Alfred (1123438850)


Spinning makes my world go round

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Seb
Seb

Penguin of Mass Destruction and Tricky Bugger to the court of Claire the Askew
Location: Check behind you.
Member Since: 5th May 2005
Total posts: 642
Posted:I'll be oh so helpful and let you know I haven't the foggiest glimpse of an idea about this. frown

Chucks nuns
Property of mynci and blu_valley, and proud of it.

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Alfred
Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 149
Posted:Thank you for atleast replying Seb!
Do you not know what im talking about,or do you not know how to make one?

Today i bought some stainless steel wire,swivels,rings for handles,and i have a catherdal wick.Ill show Seb what i made coz he's the only one who replied.


Spinning makes my world go round

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JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted:I made one a couple weeks ago. The wick is much too big, I'll have to find annother one for it. It looks really nifty, anyway.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:What's the difference between fire hands and a fire orb?

>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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.:star:.
.:star:.

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 6th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1785
Posted:an orb is held between two hands.

fire hands
hand----o o-----hand

fire orb
hand-----o------hand

if that makes sense. or See meenik's gallery


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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:sounds a bit limiting...

what advantages does it have over fire hands?


>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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Alfred
Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 149
Posted:you use a thin wire so it gives the ilusoin that the fire is "floating" in between your hands.

Sparkey did you use swivels?How big is your wick?


Spinning makes my world go round

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JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted:I did not use swivels, it doesn't need to twist much and the wire is twisty enough for that. I used 2.5 inch kevlar, which is definatel too big.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:Why not use a monkey fist?

>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:The hop monkey fists with a connector on each side would probably work quite well... I think it may require a bit of experimentation to determine the 'correct' length for easiest use.

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Alfred
Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 149
Posted:if a 2.5 is too big, wont a monkeyfist be crazy talk?the HOP dubble connector monkey fist does look like the perfect thing thou.

Are the any "do's" and "don'ts" you can suggest in the making?


Spinning makes my world go round

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:DO: make sure you can adjust the lengths.
make practise before you set fire to it
have fun!

DON'T:
try holding onto just the wire too tight for too long unless you want scarred fingers


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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FlameChild
FlameChild

Pyromantic
Location: Norway (Way way up North, on t...
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2002
Total posts: 136
Posted:gotta make leather handles...
burnsies are not good.
no not at all it is..


-= I am the god of Hell-fire =-
-= And I bring you......fire =-

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Alfred
Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 149
Posted:Lazy Angel do you have any suggestions on making the wire adjustable lengths?I wanna put a handel on it.

Spinning makes my world go round

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Alfred
Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 149
Posted:i Finally made the orb...the flame was a bit big,but i think it will go down when the wick gets older and maybe if i use a diffrent fuel...ill try to post a pic of it in my gallery.PM me if you want more details

Spinning makes my world go round

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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Ummm what kind of wire did you use out of curriosity? I just thought about the possibilities in this and Im going to make one to play around with.

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Baccory
Baccory

member
Location: Arana Hills, Brisbane, Queensl...
Member Since: 8th Feb 2006
Total posts: 126
Posted:Planning on making one...i'm thinking of using rings...going to play with ways of adjusting the length...i'll post pics and details if i find something that works

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Adya Miriyana
Adya Miriyana

*slou?
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 4th Feb 2005
Total posts: 6554
Posted:Most excellent fun biggrin, and very simple to use!



the one played with at UberOz had about an inch of wick, which was actually a section of kevlar rope, sewed with kevlar thread. (The steel wire threaded through - though not straight from one side to the other, this has to be threaded around a bit so as to keep the wick right in the middle as tension is placed on the ends) - looks much more effective if hands are parallel with the orb right in the centre. smile



the swivels on the ends by the finger rings gave it a really nice flowy feel and motion.



good luck creating! and don't forget to take some pics!


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FireSmurf
FireSmurf

member
Location: Northern Ireland, Antrim, Ball...
Member Since: 30th Sep 2005
Total posts: 31
Posted:http://salza.se/images/products/fullimages/55.jpg
is this what you are looking for? Thay are called fireflys.


Thomas Bjork
[Fire Artist]
[clown]

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Dedphrog
Dedphrog

member

Member Since: 14th Feb 2006
Total posts: 50
Posted:I'd like to see a video of one of these in action. anyone know of any off-hand?

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FlamingOberon
FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA
Member Since: 26th Apr 2005
Total posts: 134
Posted:i had found a video ona japanese site of someone using one... first time i saw one, actually... i dont have any way to host it, sorry, but they do exist...

I was considering just braiding Kevlar thread into a solid enough chain to heold the wick, i kind of figured the skinnier the cahin the better, so why not thread? but i havent tried it yet, been busy, and i fear the thread just wont be strong enough, even if braided...


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Neser
Neser

member
Location: North Queensland
Member Since: 27th Dec 2005
Total posts: 63
Posted:What real tricks can you do with them?

I've been chatting with some people who create fire equipment and have been considering getting into making various equipment now (so far, poi and staff), though looking at these fire orbs/flies, I got a good idea of how to design them...

What are they to be used for mainly? Just as a prop/cool effect? (like standing there suspending a flame between your hands), or can you actually do any moves with them?

An idea my friend tossed at me for a move was to flick it and have it create a ring of fire between your hands by getting enough movement, though with that there's the issue of burning your chest or [if there is any] excess fuel flicking off.

Thanks,
~ Neser


Fuel your fascination, burn your desire and dance with flames

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:I've used one while doing contact staff, neck spins and shoulder locks mainly. Was looking for a way to occupy my hands instead of them just hanging there or flailing around. What I really want is a set where the wires shorten automatically when not under tension, sort of like the mechanism in a tape measure or one of those extendable key holders for your belt. This would hopefully look pretty cool and more floaty/magical, but also open up a bunch more contact moves.

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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FightingDrag
newbie
Location: Orcutt, California
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2006
Total posts: 3
Posted:I have no idea what this is used for, all i can get is that it is for a "Secondary" use for if you are using something that requires two hands, but the trick you are performing only needs 1 hand to do.

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arictocRAT
arictocRAT

newbie
Location: Thornbury, Victoria
Member Since: 28th Oct 2004
Total posts: 27
Posted:we call these things "orbs" rather than "chi-balls"

chi-ball is such an embarrasing hippie bollox daggy term.

at least "orb" makes out as if it's some type of ball smile



i've made about 50 of these things so far, except with a bit of a design change. i use rigid wire not piano wire because it allows for more variety of moves, eg you can hold the flame above your hands, as well as you don't need to have your hands directly opposite the flame from each other.



moves are very basic, tho also very different from twirling. these things are NOT twirled. rather than the flames moving and spinning, the hands create the movement around the flame, moving as if rubbing the outside of a chi-ball or sphere of energy. one method has a stationary flame and borrows heavily from yoga, how they create then manipulate balls of chi, or personal energy. this way it's a bit easier, since the wire holds your hand at the radial distance of the sphere. Another method is to move the flame more, which tends to look more fluid (dunno why) and you can do things like get it behind your back and other wierd contrortionist stuff.



technical details follow.



materials :-

kevlar sheet is best, tho 2 inch (50mm) will do in a pinch. 200mm to 250mm length. you can make 4 or 5 of these with a meter of kevlar fairly easily. the flame doesn't need to be big as it doesn't move too much.

kevlar thread (thank you HOPshop)

2 metal coathangers OR some 1.5mm to 2mm fencing wire (not hard to bend)

a couple of fishing swivels (size 2 has rings big enough to fit the wire)

bloody strong and thick sewing needles with a curve in them. the amount of needles i have broken while trying to force them thru kevlar, or bend them, or get them out of a stitch is ridiculous. stainless steel ain't actually all that tough!



construction method :-

you want to basically sew a ball or a very small roll of wick. i do this by folding the kevlar to the right size, then rolling in in from both ends to the middle, and sewing both along the seam and both ends.

force a length of straight wire thru, then put a swivel on one end and bend it over. push it as far into the wick as possible and repeat on the other end. this is so the swivel points are as close to the centre as possible. it just makes movement easier.

this is the important bit. measure the distance from the inside of your wrist to the inside of your elbow when both are bent. this is the ideal length of the side attachment wires, tho some might prefer and extra inch or two. Too short and you can't get it behind your back, too long and it looks awkward.

bend one end of the wire into a finger-ring, THEN cut the wire at the nice length you have decided on and attach the other end to one swivel from the wick. make both side attachments the same length.

voila, finished smile dip the thing in fuel, put on some groovy dancing music, light up and have fun smile



frayed ends of kevlar belong in the middle of the wick, because that is where wear&tear is going to appear first. the more hidden it is, the longer the wick will last ... i am quite proud that the kevlar lasts longer than most else on the equipment I make



because the flame moves so slowly or so little, these things burn for AGES. tight wicks last about as long as cathedrals, usually more than 10 minutes. i would be scared to think how long a loose wick would last. i haven't made one yet but i honestly wouldn't be surprised if it burned for half an hour. I tend to run out of dance material before a tight wick runs out of fuel, and even tho there is nowhere near as much physical exertion involved, it is still possible to tire yourself with these things, just because they last three times as long as twirly toys.



this is just one direction that the toys can progress. the style that involve flexible side attachments have different signature moves. This way just suit my own style of dance as well as most people i have given or sold these things to. Attempts have been made to have swivels at both ends of the side attachments, but this has proved largely un-necessary.



the most interesting thing about these things is that they move the focus away from SPINNING the fire and much, much more towards DANCING the fire. The best looking type of firetwirling is generally the most fluid dance rather than the fanciest show-off. slow & technical looks much sexier than fast, frantic & unskilled, and these things don't give the speed freaks a chance. it's wonderful! smile


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