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BurningByron


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 340
Posted:Over 180 bodies recovered after two bombs were exploded in the two most popular nightclubs/bars in Bali.

Most of them are Australian tourists, since it is the number one holiday destination for most Aussies.

Sending love to all the people affected by this cowardly terrorist attack.

Australia has never really experienced anything quite like this before, terror attacks were seen as things that only affect over seas countries but now we are forced to face a little more reality.

I live in the most isolated capital city in the world (Perth) and incidently we have a target that is in the top ten potential terrorist targets in the world, Swanbourne Barracks. Something to do with the SAS I'm led to believe.

Welcome to a new chapter in Australia's history, now we will pay for our unsung atrocities against humanity.


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:the bali thing?
just in case oversea people don't know - mosques around Australia are beefing up security in anticipation of hate crimes.

The circle continues. Cue corporate media anti-Islam propaganda....
it makes me sad that so many have been killed, orphaned, widowed at a time of holiday


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin


Total posts: 5635
Posted:i was riding through the city on the tram, i see the newspapers, a day of mourning. Its the pictures that get me, two grown men, holding each other and weeping...

From down here, its very easy to be detatched, until i remember some of my friends who are in the navy and army, and their wives, and the impact it will have on them.

And i remember that my sister lives in darwin, and all the friends that i've known that have gone to bali for a holiday at some point in time....
what would i feel now if it were one of them....

it all seems alarmingly random, to tell the truth. What does australia have that is worth bombing, or attacking? We arent the big force like America, we dont have the fire power..... And now it all becomes too real, too personal...


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:yeah ..it's crazy... completely made my jaw drop and my heart ache for those ppl affected.

A very very good friend of mine was due to travel to Bali on Monday (yesterday) ... he was gonna stay at a place that was two buildings down from the nightclub where it all happened.

Actually, he was originally due to travel the week before (and thus would have been there at the time of the attack), but his work offered him relief work at another office for a work. Thank God...

Makes you realise just how lucky and fortunate you are when this kind of stuff is NOT occuring... living in a place where this stuff was almost routine must be so difficult...


The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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splerph
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

member
Location: Perth Australia

Total posts: 75
Posted:I can't come to terms with this attack. Its way to close to home for me.

One of my friends is still missing over there. We still haven't heard if he's ok. His family haven't heard anything. At this stage it isn't looking good.

I'm still coming to terms with the fact that this has actually happened. Every thing I'm seeing on tv is so horribly wrong. I've been to Bali and the Sari club many times and it just doens't seem real.

I'm really sorry for anyone else that has lost family or friends in this awful tragedy. my deepest condolences


Smile and the whole world smiles with you

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Having had a little time to digest what is going on, I have become even more upset and scared. On top of the Australian, and other foreign victims of the bombing, many locals were also killed. The local victims will receive treatment in Indonesia, I hope we have offered a similar level of care to them.

The local people have done a lot in the crisis, there have been many acts of kindness, bravery and generosity. I read reports of a local man finding a wallet at the scene whilst helping others to safety, he went to the Australian Embassy to ensure it was returned to its owner or her relatives.

These people may have lost their livelihoods, and may now have to live with the reputation of Indonesia sullied in the eyes of the world. They too are victims of this bombing. I am very glad that Australian and Indonesian authorities are investigating together.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I wonder if people will start taking things seriusly now that it isnt just the vile Americans getting hit.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Please lets not take this to another USA vs the rest of the world thing. I think most people have taken this seriously since the very beginning.

Australia doesn't have the resources, or I hope the inclination, to begin bombing raids on another country. I hope they will use any legal remedies they can against these people.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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splerph
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

member
Location: Perth Australia

Total posts: 75
Posted:I agree Rozi. People have been taking this very seriously since the Sept 11. This has just hit home harder for me coz its so close to home.

However it doesn't make me want to go and bomb people. I feel so desperately sorry for the people of Bali. These people are poor to begin with. This will no doubt devestate their economy. The numbers of flights cancelled already will have such a huge impact on their economy.

Obviously the target was Australian people but the people of Bali have been hugely affected as well.


Smile and the whole world smiles with you

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Thats not what I meant, see Indonesia is not a hated country, neither is Austrailia. I am sure that every country has its perverbial skeletons in the closet, but neither country has done anything like people claim America has done.

I guess nobody is safe, and thats why there are people out there right now fighting for the safty of the world.

We should be comming togeather not fighting amongst eachother when things like this happens.

Fight those who would harm the defencless.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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splerph
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

member
Location: Perth Australia

Total posts: 75
Posted:No I disagree again.

Of course we all need to come together. But fighting is not the answer. Fighting those that harm the defenceless will in turn encourage them to keep harming the defenceless.

Creating wars creates more senseless violence.


Smile and the whole world smiles with you

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SpArKiE


SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.

Total posts: 218
Posted:splerph, i dont beleive this attack was mainly aimed at aussies... bcos... this would have been planned ahead. as all attacks are. this has most probly been planned for at least a month. and who knew back then that all these footballers from aussie would be going to bali? maybe they did know. but who does??? no one at this stage. but thats what i think.

and also splerph for you going thru this time... and all you other ppl who have friends or family for you all.

this is truly TERRIBLE! and i hope they find out who did it (it was probly another suicidal bomb attack or something- and in that case if it was- well they cant find the ppl exactly who did it) OR the ppl behind it. put them in a room and blow it up. see what it feels like.

i know thats just my anger talking- i wouldnt normally inflict that onto ppl. BUT i know im probly not the only person who feels this way. i cant be. then again some ppl probly dont even know how to feel at this time.

i hope no more deaths occur, and that all the injured get better. and i wish luck to families searching for bodies of loved ones in the morgs. i know it wont be easy. but god will be lookin over you, and them.


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
I wonder if people will start taking things seriusly now that it isnt just the vile Americans getting hit.I know this has been commented on but Ray trust that these things have occured else where WAY WAY WAY before Sept. 11 th happened...

As it appears this attack was directly towards citicens of two countries (primarily) whereas the WTC was full of international people... The WTC bombings were an attack on the world not on America. You guys just couldnt handle it!

What about our constant bombing campaign in Iraq and before we made friends with Iran + several other countries...

I shall not go any further as I might get carried away...

Think with your head not with your dick.

Cheers, Drome

PS:

Splerph we are all here for you adn any other affected directly. Do not hesitate to PM people about how you feel. Its always good to share even if what we share is not very pretty...
Love, hugs, and my deepst condolences, Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Once again, please let us not take this to a USA vs the rest of the world thing.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:In terms of some background to the Australian relationship to Indonesia, we have always had a tense relationship with one of our nearest neighbours. We have gone through times where Australia has welcomed Indonesia as one of its greatest trading partners, to times where Australia has criticised Indonesia on its human rights record. ( I believe our Prime Minister has also insulted their PM, calling them a "recalcitrant", or was that Malaysia?)

There are some who allege that Australia was aware of Indonesia's plans to invade East Timor before it happened. And were also culpable in drawing up the East Timor Gap treaty that divided up oil rights in the Timor Sea. In this way, the Australian government may have been seen as giving tacit, if not active support for Indonesian actions.

And yet Australia was a key force in bringing in peacekeeping forces in East Timor, and pressuring for the independence of that new nation.

Australia has made demands with regards to human rights on other issues within East Timor.

The Indonesian government, whilst being somewhat circumspect as Australia is a trading partner, have resented what is seen as Australian interference in their affairs. Some more extreme members of parliament have been more outspoken. The Indonesian government has not had a role in this bombing. However, as in all countries, there are persons who will take such attitudes to the extreme.

This is not to excuse what has happened, rather to give some background. It goes some way to explaining why Australians, and other foreigners, may be seen as a target for extremist groups in Indonesia. Especially due to Australian links with the USA over the action against Al Quaeda, and the discussion in this country about possible action against Iraq.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:This was maybe an attack on the west and the non-Islamic world in general.

Like Rozi says, the background sheds some light on this attack. Indonesian was completely and utterly fucked over by Western governments and corporations, mainly by the Britian, US and Australia. 30 years of Western backed dictatorship, about a million people murdered. Not only did the West ignore many of these massacres for years, but we encouraged and supported them. Some of the nicest hotels in Bali are built on mass graves.

4 yeas ago General Suharto, the dictator, fled the country leaving about $115 billion in foreign debt, much of it syphoned off by corruption. The stock market and currency had collapsed and 70 million people were living in absolute poverty. The natural resources and major corporations in Indonesia are mainly owned by Western countries. The recovery is long and slow. Outside of the tourist areas it's hard to find any decent food or living conditions. They actually import cheap rice and grain and export high quality stuff to make money. Not a good state to be in. So, there's reason to be annoyed at the West.

And I'm not trying to start another debate, so don't take it as a personal grudge Ray. If you want to email me, I know quite a bit about Indonesia.

Indonesian is also at least 90% Islam, and within Islam there's a growing fundamentalist movement that gains support from the growing number of Islamic fundamentalists groups around the world and their increased action. They're propagating each other, a vicious cycle. If a militant group wanted to strike at what it saw as anti-Islamic decadence and sin then Kuta, a party town, in Bali, an Hindu island, is the perfect place.

So, that's some random thinkings on why they happened. Do I have to add the normal disclaimer that this isn't justification of the attacks, but an understanding of how other people think and why they act is interesting and important.


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Shubby


member
Location: France

Total posts: 12
Posted:Once again to all of those over there who have suffered pain and loss, I'll twirl a poi and a staff for those we will miss.

Do you think that if Bush and Ossama were to twirl a poi, would the world be a better place ?

Sending out love and good vibes to all those in need.

Shubby


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Shubby


member
Location: France

Total posts: 12
Posted:AND STOP ALL THIS GODDAMN ESCALADE INTO VIOLENCE ! WAR HAS NEVER EVER SOLVED A GODDAMN THING.

IF YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD,
YOU'LL DIE BY THE SWORD !

Some famous guy said one day...

Shubby


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I would rather die by the sword, proud of the life I have lead, than die of old age and wonder what could have been.

Dom, shut up! Just get off your horse and shut up.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Ray,

We can't destroy Al-Qaeda with bombs. I knew that from the beginning. Bombs, planes, and tanks cannot destroy Al-Qaeda.

Now...some good, old-fashioned Israeli "ya wanna play dirty? Fine. We can play dirty." type tactics CAN and WILL work.

Can the U.S. Military make that change?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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djevca


member
Location: somewhere between heaven and h...

Total posts: 32
Posted:how anyone can take so many innocent lives without consideration baffles me. i met a girl 6 years ago when i was travelling across canada. her name was michelle. she had the most beautiful spirit,loved everybody and everything, and had something in her heart that helped her see the good in everyone and everything. we kept in close touch over the years. 2 months ago she e-mailed me to let me know she was going to singapore to explore.From my weekly updates from her, i learnt that she had discovered heaven. It was aplace called Bali. this morning i recieved a phone call from her brother telling me that her life had been lost.this girl was 26 years old, she inspired me to spin,watching her with her pois was like watching the gods dance in the moonlight.
Please, say a prayer 4 her.


HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:Pls dont be rude to Dom!

You arent solving a thing!
He was merely stated an opinion that never really poked at you and in fact told you not to take what he said personally...

You are intolerant and quite rude! I hope you understand that.


Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:djevca, your friend is in my thoughts. I am glad she lived a life she loved, and so sorry it had to end so soon.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:quote: Now...some good, old-fashioned Israeli "ya wanna play dirty? Fine. We can play dirty." type tactics CAN and WILL work.
What tactics are those? Should we demolish the mountains like the Israilies demolished Arafrats HQ? Should we prevent Afgani people from getting jobs and give all the jobs to Pakistani people?

Seen as how the tactics used by the Israili were tought to them by the Americans I dont see, what good changing our tactics will do?

A year ago I would have said just nuke the whole damn country, innocent and all. Why leave someone alive to get revenge.

Today, I still say hunt, hunt out those responsible put them on trial. If found guilty, shoot them in the streets. No need to hurt any more innocents intentional or not.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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djevca


member
Location: somewhere between heaven and h...

Total posts: 32
Posted:how many innocent people dead is enough????how does this solve anything???where will it all end??i knew 3 people who died on sept.11 and nnow one of my close friends was stolen away by this........where is the sense in it???i just dont understand

HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:quote: how many innocent people dead is enough????how does this solve anything???where will it all end?? 0 innocents dead is enough, any more than that is tragic. If there is nobody left willing to fight then it solves alot. The worst thing in the world that could happen is the destruction of the world and you couldnt pay me enough to believe that could happen.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Fire_Emanator


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 96
Posted:Please lets not take this to another USA vs the rest of the world thing. I think most people have taken this seriously since the very beginning.

Australia doesn't have the resources, or I hope the inclination, to begin bombing raids on another country. I hope they will use any legal remedies they can against these people.

Where have you been lately??? Australia incresed it's military budget by a couple more billion this year, ASIO is more active as a secret police than even the CIA, in fact the CIA gets a lot of info from ASIO.

People seems to miss the fundamental point...terrorists don't bomb for fun, they generally have a reason for it...the reason the firstworld is getting their asses kicked of late, is because the first world has been doing the exact same thing to the thirdworld for hundreds of years. What goes around comes around...

It is a terrible thing that this is happening, but does anyone care that thousands of civilians in Afganistan have been killed in the "war on terror" or that Bughdad, a city that has been around since the dawn of the civilised world...( if it was not for Persia, we would all be in mud huts) has had the crap bombed out of it for the last ten years again costing many civilian lives....the list goes on, the only difference now is that everyone is shitting themselves because it resembles the Christian portrait of judgement day....
Terrible news, all this terrorism, but the first world has had it coming to them since the crusades!


Free your mind and your ass will follow!

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BurningByron


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 340
Posted:DromePixie, Dom and Ray. There is no need to rip into each other simply because you both express different view points. For me you guys symbolise the people responsible for these wars and terrorist attacks because they respect each others opinions about as much as you guys respect each other's view points. I know that war isnt that simple but at least at a social day to day level we can start to love and respect each other unconditionally, it has to start somewhere, why not right here right now?

PM all the people that you have trouble seeing eye to eye with and express your most unconditional supportive love to them.

Now every time you have a conflict with someone, send them that same love because who are you to deny them the perfection of your unconditional love?

Understand that each person is brought up to believe different things as 'right' in life. Just because a person wasnt taught the things you believe in, it doesnt mean that they are 'bad' people. So have compassion for those people and send them your love because (from your perspective) they are coming from a place of unknowing and that is the worst place to be in ever.

I love you all for who you are and realise that without you I would be denied a unique and perfect view on the world.

With light and Love,

Burning Byron.


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
quote: Now...some good, old-fashioned Israeli "ya wanna play dirty? Fine. We can play dirty." type tactics CAN and WILL work.
What tactics are those? Should we demolish the mountains like the Israilies demolished Arafrats HQ? Should we prevent Afgani people from getting jobs and give all the jobs to Pakistani people?
What the Israelis used to do (before this most recent asshole was in power) was that they ran one of the world's most efficient spy and assassin networks.

That means that you have operatives around, and when you find out where a terrorist leader is, you take him out. If he's in a city, then a few devils disguised as men (read: SEALS) appear at his window and dispose of him. If he's in the middle of a forest, then hellfire rains down on him. If he's in the middle of a mountain, then the angel of death (chlorine) pays a visit.

Sharon is intentionally sloppy. He's using this as an excuse to commit genocide. That's not the sort of tactic I'm talking about. I'm talking about using spies to figure out where Bin Laden is and then...well, his HQ has to have ventilation systems, right? Offer him a free dry-cleaning for his lungs.

Dropping bombs on Kabul or Baghdad isn't going to do jack squat to stop terrorism. It's just going to piss people off and encourage them to join terrorist organizations.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:good peacemaking, BurningByron, ya got diplomacy as well as passion from your Muse!

ok now as our next version regional website is finally completing under my slow care and evolving to SoCalFire, i'm soon gonna have to post about the funeral Saturday i think for our SoCal surfer boy killed in Bali, & his friends injured, both in our new site and in our SoCal thread here at HoP, under "WarFire." not just the bomb, it started a bad fire too (i'm just lookin still for language on firefigher fires, wildfire or just bad fire vs. good fire?)

the greatest shame is the wonderful people of Bali, among the warmest on earth, their idyll which they give to us as caretakers of one of earth's paradises ruined.

i dunno what to make of who really did da bombing. really. i'm sorry to hear Ozzies say this is their WTC.

Balinese, usually only nominally Muslim, celebrate as much of Indonesia does the great sacred saga of the Ramayana, an ancient & medieval Hindu drama. But that was from India, before Islam from the Middle East, on top of older cultural traditions in Bali. They are used to welcoming newcomers and new influences into their culture, with appreciation. Ozzie & global surfers are just the latest they embrace with an easy smile.

They burn elaborate colored paper effigies of things for your journey when you die, and their native belief is that when you die you go to somewhere almost exactly like Bali.

They are among the most friendly, open, kind, and peaceful people ever in human history.

Here's to the dead. May they indeed have the wonderful grace of awakening to a next life in a place as wonderful as Bali.

~ Mike

[ 17 October 2002, 09:45: Message edited by: FreMke ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:MikeG, the US does not assasinate. Says the brass, on an official level. Unofficially that is above my paygrade, so I reallly cant coment.

I like the idea, but you realise what would happen if the US officialy fought like that? Public outcry from around the world would be, "The US feels as if it can play god with the worlds leaders."

See from my perspective and my opinion, if the US decides to help someone, someone in the world will complain, if the US decides not to do anything, someone in the world will complain.

We want to help everyone and make everyone happy but it can never happen. So we make our own road.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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