Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok so I figured out some of my confusion and understand what I've been doing seeing that's made antispin inversions so hard for me to understand..

atoms... ok.. so same direction and opposite direction is just a squashed form of atoms.. atoms being what you get when two centers of spin (the poi) come together..

I think this affects other centers spin as well.. with multiple center of spin moves you get the poi's center of spin (and poi) as one plane and move direction which is another center of spin, with a plane...

same direction spin- normal, when your hands move in the same direction as the poi

opposite direction spin- antispin, when your hands move opposite the poi

which are squashed forms of:
atomic spin- when the one center of spin is parallel with one axis and the other center of spin is parallel with another..

I thought about this with the butterfly weave/corkscrew thing I do that moves back and forth like a butterfly weave but the hands move in a twisting pattern like the bottom of a corkscrew..

I think this is why I might not be understanding the antispin inversions right.. I think I'm antispinning my weave and then turning into one of these samedirection atomic spin
inversion.. I've been writing off a lot of this atomic spin stuff as body movement.. just ways I could twist my arms and body to make the poi fit where they shouldnt.. now I think its really just mixing different types of spin to move the poi where I want.. kinda like 90 plane changes for center of spin.. ubbloco

hopefully someone will understand this.. and give me some feedback.. I dont know much about atoms.. muchless applying the knowledge of atoms to centers of spin. ..

arashi??


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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:what was the question?



Try horozontal anti spin weave for 1 bt (left hand top), then vert for 1 bt (atomic), then horozontal for 1 bt (right hand on top)...and then go back the other way. You get a freaky mesh of patterns. shrug Its sort of offset. I havnt figured out inversions or insides yet with that version.



Actually just try switching from atomic horozontal (floor plane) into atomic "normall"



Dayum that gives me an idea... ubbidea

EDITED_BY: Dragon7 (1122500145)


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spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Well despite missing Arashi I know where he's doing his atomic stuff - the planes are at 45 degrees to the floor plane as well as wall and wheel planes. Which is harder to spin, but makes sense.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:yeah.. but I'm not talking about atoms... well I am.. but..



okarashi does atoms.. which are the way two centers of spin come together.. poi #1 is one center of spin and poi #2 is a second center of spin.. and they can intersect at different angles.. a la atoms..



my point is that you can do the same thing with other centers of spin.. like the center of spin of the move and the center of spin of the poi.. like say poi #1 has one center of spin and the movement that arm #1 is making can intersect that like an atom..



when you move the arms in a different plane from what the poi is spinning, it creates a wobble.. an oversimplification would be like moving your hand left and right, and the poi making a weave.. more complex patterns are like butterfly weave-like patterns where the hand twists like the bottom of a clockwaise corkscrew one way and like the bottom of a corkscrew the other way.. while the poi just spin vertical like a butterfly weave..



its like 90 degree plane changes.. only the poi don't change planes.. your hands spin the plane changed part and the poi spin normally.. it creates some wobble to your moves, but nothing a good amount of practice can't snip down.... I mean the ttn-like pattern only wobbles has a wobble as wide as the diamter of the hand twisting.. so if I twist my wrists close togehter.. I get little wobble.. but if I exagerrate the motion I get a lot more wobble.. and more of a 90 degree plane change (ie more horizontal spin ) than a vertical..





the twisting motion makes the poi spin a lot like carries.. but I mean.. its no different than moving between atoms.. its a lot like finding he right angle to make the poi move in the direction you want bothwith the move, and with the poi itself..



with atomic spin the poi can be spinning flat like normal.. but still be spinning atomicly realtive the move..


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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:If you say "atoms being what you get when two centers of spin (the poi) come together.. " than it's very wide conclusion.
Atomic are only part of "single centric" spinnig I see.

"Atoms determine the border of the cone."

What is important about atoms are angles between planes, because you have onli 360 to move them.

0 - Parallel

0- 90 - Acute angel ex: Butterfly
90 - Atom
90-180 - Obtuse angel, like acute, no difference
180 - Bacwards <-> Forwards
360 - Backward to backward, forward to forward.

90=90
0-90=90-180 this is interesting smile
360=2*180

All this is about vertical plane atoms:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1
br>
:R


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:don't ask him about atoms.
ask him about contours and gradients instead
wink


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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:yeah atoms are SOOOOOOO last year

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yep.
the conical gradient axes are going to blow everybody away.

biggrin


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:so no comments huh?

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: bluecat

axes



eek


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:comment: i'm juggling again now smile

i think the main reason i have no comment on this rev is that as yet, i don't see why thinking about poi in this way improves my understanding or makes me a better spinner.

its may well be because i don't use antispin or inversions the same way/as much as you do.

but i have yet to see any moves that can't be explained by the model i have in my head or that make me say "wow, that's beautiful! i must find out what's going on there."

sorry dude shrug


cole. x


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:i had a sensible comment, but i posted it on spherculism but not here confused

are you thinking of patterns where your hands move in atomic patterns (this is confusing for me... i still havnt played with atomic) but the poi stay in wall plane? or visa versa. like 3d spiralograph patterns? confused


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I dunno.. I like to think of it as a control exercise, since I havent really gotten a chance to explore it well enough yet.. but its another one of those things that:

1- will let me transfer fluidly between different directions of poi and directions of spin..

2- give me more control over spinning the poi in planes that I cant reach, by spinning my hands in planes that I can..



I could go on a list all the reasons why I think its important.. but that's not the issue here.. the issue is imo, how far I can push this art.. and I'm moving more in a direction of(and maybe this is the result of working with tanlges for so long)the poi spinning independently of me.. don't take that too literally.. what I'm trying to do is master the art of controlling the poi.. whihc for me means having the freedom to move as I please while the poi spin.. because the poi are independent enough to maintain their own orbit, while still being controlled enough to not just be aimlessly floating around..



hence moving into 3d stuff like conical isolations, spinning in a plane perpendicular to the plane the poi are in, and even the reason i like inversions so much becase now I gett to take all my twist, tangle, and knot knowledge and apply it to weaves.. whihc really gets sick when you have a tangle inside an inversions (whihc I guess is just a inversion in an inversion) to whihc I'm trying to add perpendicular spinning, and get some of those crazy tangle turns I do inside an inversion..



I guess I really just see things different.. its not how something applies to what I already know.. its how seeing something a certain way allows me to build something new.. or take what I know and build it in a new way.. we all know for the most part what it is we are doing.. why do you need to learn what you already do? This doesnt change how I see normal spin.. nor how I see antispin.. but it does change what I can do with them..



but that comment was mainly geared at those that do use inversions more like I do.. or even better.. to those that use atoms.. I mean.. stuff like atomic weaves have 4 centers of spin that get reduced to two.. what happens when you apply atomic spin to an atom? do you need cranes? and what other nonsense does that create.. I wish I could do more than poke at the surface here..





EDIT: oli- like I said on spherc.. this isnt noticeable like atoms are.. because the planes and their direction arent as prominent.. the best example I can give.. is my butterfly one.. take your hands and twist like the bototm of a cork (clockwise)and then like the bottom of a cork coutner clockwise.. that's horizontal spin on your hands.. and if you can maintain a butterfly pattern (where the poi spin vertically) while you do it.. then you've got apicture of the idea I'm working with.. its not that the hands move in an atom.. its just the premise of different axis that are being spin.. the center of spin of a move is no different than the center of spin of the poi..



ex. fwd weave left sdie.. the poi spin cockwise.. center of spin the hands.. the hands move clockwsie.. center of spin the wrists.. those two kinda get melded together.. and when you look at a weave.. you think the poi center of spin and the move center of spin are the same.. sme for a butterfly weave etc.. but then when we move into stff like antispin we have the center of spin of the move going <- and the center of spin of the poi going -> the relationship between the poi and the move in that instance is the same as the relationship between each poi head in a butterfly.. sicne we are starting to use a lot more moves that involve concentric spinning.. I'm just saying we ought to explore more of how that can be manipulated..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1122650954)


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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:.."Moving into 3d stuff"...
.."Inversion in an inversion"...

Very, very, interesting.

Im with you smile

:R


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: bluecat

don't ask him about atoms.
ask him about contours and gradients instead




Bloody hell! The crazy [censored] arashi was pulling today with contours and stuff was immense! I don't even do poi and I wanted his babies! Those moves are SICK!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:*waits patiently till someone discovers how to spin leylines* smile

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:One day, I will understand this thread. One day.... ubblol

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:right.





gradient spinning:



consider the isolation point of the leading poi:

you can smoothly move that point from top to bottom of the poi, in the middle of an inverted cone. if you play with the horizontal inversions and insideoutside stuff you get mountain shapes. you can even invert the mountain and rotate it upside down..





the mountain is mightier than the atom

biggrin

R


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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Mountain - horizontal inversions(Ok) and insideoutside stuff(hmm),

What is it?

:R


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:and they say I talk greek..

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:well, you see, if you move your atomic crossover points up and down the countours in an anti-inversion you'll kind of see what i mean...

shrug


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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I got it ,waaaaaa smile

love and light,

:R


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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Getting to the other side smile

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:I knew i shoulda gone to uberpoi mad

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:and i knew i should have stayed in scotland mad

i'm visualising contour/gradients as cool things to do with conicals but i may just be confused.

guess i'll just wait till play... ubbangel


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:seing as im not going to Pley, whatever that is, im gonna strat another thread.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:*bump*

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:ubblol wink

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