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The Tea Fairy
The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...
Member Since: 2nd Jul 2004
Total posts: 853
Posted:Hi all

I've been studying the use of complementary therapies in palliative care for a research project at Uni. I've been looking at how these often clinically unproven therapies are being integrated into conventional medical care for the dying, the reasons for it and the benefits of it e.t.c.

One of the things I've been up to is watching a therapist give reiki treatments to patients. I started talking to the therapist afterwards about the 'energy body' and if she can see it. She says she just feels the energy, but cannot see it.

I personally would like to believe that we each have an aura or 'energy body', but at the same time I don't like buying into things without a healthy dose of scepticism also. So I was wondering what you guys all think...

If anyone also wants to argue for or against auras, or give their personal experiences with 'energy', I'm interested in whatever you guys have to say.

Cheers.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted: Written by: faithinfire


i was trying to say machines and magnets might have auras that look like
an unemotional person


hmm, interesting to consider who an unemotional person would be. I find it hard to think about the difference between an "emotion" and just a "thought".

Far as I can see, they're essentially the same thing, if you're feeling happy or sad, aren't you just thinking happy or sad thoughts? A "thought" or an "emotional response" is your response to a stimulus, someone telling you something, a memory, the thought you just thunk, whatever. You receive a stimulus, you interpret it in your brain, and you respond with another thought. What that thought is, determines what your emotion at that moment is. Surely?

I think if auras are real, and if they're generated by thought/emotion, everyone's got to have one.

Also,

 Written by: faithinfire


or a color we haven't seen before


Do you mean a colour that specific person (the person who's looking at the aura) hasn't seen before (like he's lived his life without ever seeing purple, and suddenly he sees purple for the first time)? Or a colour that no-one's seen before?


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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:no one
which i know is impossible
it was just a thought, maybe they have auras but we can't see them because they are in a spectrum beyond our sight


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:faithinfire can you see auras and if you can what has them??

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:once in a great while and it was just people who were really upset

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:robnunchucks dude.
You want the proof with a practical demonstration I shall give you some demonstrations as to what has happened in my life, but I will not go for one million dollars just to prove my abilities why dont you come and get a reading from me and then you can see what you think.

First off shall we define what the word aura means ? To me aura is an energy representation of a persons emotional and physical health (which is not reflected by light. And yes I can see them when there is no light; I dont see them with my physical eyes, more of a second sight)

First off I didnt say that there was anything 'mystical' about vibration. Thats your interpretation about what I have said.
Its healthy to be sceptical but lets look at things without the hype and the airy fairy crap around it.

There is no right and no wrong on this planet. I know thats a big call to make for some people but its something I fundamentally believe in (and if you would like the reasoning behind it feel free to PM me) but because I dont have a vast knowledge of science doesnt mean Im going the wrong way as you put it, could just mean that Im thinking about things or experiencing life differently from others.

I mean according to science wasnt the world flat a few hundred years ago? Isnt it great that people expanded thier minds to learn about the truth of the matter... wink

I dont claim to know all the answers or even if its the auratic field is what Im seeing around people... If you could explain the spiralling colours that I see around people that would be fantastic. Cause no one has been able to yet.

I have been checked out by the top neurologist in QLD, plus all his lackeys... they couldnt explain it. I have had every test under the sun, 9 spinal taps to see if I had infections, MRI scans (18 of) cat scans (over 20), with and without contrasting dye. I have had my eyes tested, been tested for epilepsy, for autism, you name the condition I would have been tested for it. They have done an Australian wide case study on me.
I have been to psychologists, and psychiatrists, had all sorts of are you crazy tests and every single one of them say Im a mighty normal human being with a very unexplainable ability.

My medical file is about 5 inches thick.

If you could explain to me how I knew a complete stranger on the street was about to collapse because his 'colours' went all 'brown' that would be interesting.

In answer to your question does everything have an aura? I will again say yes. Check out the answer I posted and my opinion is stated clearly that I believe everything has an aurathe auras will be extremely different, (due to the physical makeup plus taking into account the emotional aspect of a living being that will influence the aura) but the aura will be there.

Im not saying that science is wrong or spiritualism is wrong Im saying that there is the strong possibility of truth in both of them regarding this type of matter and I really do feel that people of the scientific persuasion need to perhaps allow their minds to be opened up to allow other possibilities in, because there will be things out there that are unable to be explained by anyone.

I get frustrated that some people who are in the scientific mindset have this black and white layout when it comes to spiritual beliefs. I mean are the egos of these people that big that they believe they have all the answers? Do they think that they are that aware of all that is that they have the authority to pooh everyones beliefs with a simple ah yes but your good at reading body language so that must be it.

I so dont agree with that.

If Im good at reading body language why is it I can read for people that I have never met or even seen and only have their dates of birth and first name. How can I tell a stranger via a phone call about their auntie that passed away 27 years ago in Scotland (where I have never visited) and how she is laughing because she left something buried in the garden that they never found? (Even though her family dug up the garden they just didnt dig deep enough because the marker stone had been moved)

How did I know these things? I would love to have some kind of answers because some of the stuff I know about or see can be so upsetting and confronting at times.

Like the time I dreamed of my nana passing and saw her in the hospital, and then 6 weeks later she is put into hospital and I am almost bought to my knees when I walk in because she is wearing the same nightie, in the same bed, next to the same window, with the same white orchid on her dressing table, and my poppa is standing next to her holding her hand JUST like in my dream.
Yes just like in my dream she passed over.

I have a belief that science and spiritualism go hand in hand. Yes there are things that science can explain that some hysterical or fanatical spiritualists claim are spirit orbs in photos, or that they converse with Princess Diana and are actually schizophrenic, or that they can plunge their hands into peoples bodies and pull out their cancer.

Those kind of claims are not fair to people and are in my opinion ridiculous and sound crazy.

To claim that science is able to answer ALL questions that the aura or spirit field can throw up is a very big call in itself. And I dont believe thats something thats able to be done.

This post may be a bit off topic but seriously I needed to just be straight up with some of the things that were spoken about.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by: HealthyTouchPro


Have you guy's ever heard of sending a private message? mad2 Just a thought.


Curious reaction. umm


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by: Valura



robnunchucks dude.

You want the proof with a practical demonstration I shall give you some demonstrations as to what has happened in my life, but I will not go for one million dollars just to prove my abilities



You could donate it to charity.

 Written by: Valura

And yes I can see them when there is no light; I dont see them with my physical eyes, more of a second sight



Observation:Testable claim



 Written by: Valura



There is no right and no wrong on this planet.



You clearly believe that that is right, ergo your opinion is self-contradictary.



I think you're wrong.



 Written by: Valura



I mean according to science wasnt the world flat a few hundred years ago?



No.



 Written by: Valura

If you could explain the spiralling colours that I see around people that would be fantastic.

Imagination springs to mind.



 Written by: Valura



In answer to your question does everything have an aura? I will again say yes.



Logicaly then if everything has an aura, and you do not require your eyes to see the aura, you would me able to possess at least basic navigational skills even if completely blinded by, say, a well fitting blindfold.



 Written by: Valura

I mean are the egos of these people that big that they believe they have all the answers?

Huh. Well if any of these people here who apparently think they can tell me everything can illuminate me on the nature of axial patterning in the Urbilateria I would be very grateful.



 Written by: Valura

Do they think that they are that aware of all that is that they have the authority to pooh everyones beliefs with a simple ah yes but your good at reading body language so that must be it.



Well, if you would be so good as to demonstrate your claims in a rigourus trial mabey we wouldn't act so suspicious.



 Written by: Valura

Various anectdotal claims



You'll find scientists don't put much stock by anectdotes. Those who claim powers tend to remember their "hits" and forget their hundreds of "misses". They also exaggerate and ignore important factors. This is why we test.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:ok you you've made some fair points which i will try to answer smile i'ed like to explain why i prefer to rely on the sientific method over all spirtual ones.



the sientific method is a rigorus logical system for determing truth. a system designed to work without bias towards one position or another. you raised the point about the world been flat afew hundred years ago, that view point hasn't actualy been held for several thousend years but it is a good example. the reason it was discovered to be wrong was because the greaks applyed the sientic method they thought the world was flat basied an intuitive belef but these are often wrong, and in this case sicence demonstrated to them that they were wrong hence we learned abit more about the universe. this has been the way of sience since its power lies in its impartiality.



if i beleave your talking rubbish and apply the sientific method to determin whats happen the is perfectly likely that it will revel you to be correct and me to be wrong. it doenst favor ether of us it only favors the truth



it is a tryed and tested system for determing truth its told us the earth was round, how the body works, revealed the nature of gravity space and time, it can create weapons of unimaginable distructive power, and cure the terminaly ill. and it does this without abiguity and repeatabley. spiritutalism can do non of these things because it starts at the answer and works back to the evidence instead of the other way around.



now i also want to point out the reason why simply giving me a reading is insuficent. because there are many many ways to acheave the feats you have talked about with no special techneques what so ever. if you have ever watched the mentalist derren brown he can perform absolutly jaw droping feats that are just as and in most cases more impresive than the ones you listed and has put many spiritualists to shame in the abilitys department however as he says over and over and over again he has no special powers what so ever there is a scientif explenation for every trick he does.



you are clameing to be able to do something that no one else on the planet has ever been able to demonstrate before you are makeing a masive clame that you are one of the most unique people on the planet, how can i not be sceptical? the burden of proof rests with you to prove your ablitys not me to disprove them. however if we implement the sientific method can clearly and fairly find out the truth of whats happening if your clameing is true the sientific method will support you and force me to conceade i was wrong.



i would also like to point out that like most sceptics i would very much like to be proved wrong. whenever i am shown to be wrong about something i am delighted about it because i meens i am now abit closer to the truth of whats going on with the universe than i was afew moments ago. and if you showed me to be wrong about this that would be an absolutly mind blowing discovery that would reshape some of the very building blocks of our understanding of the universe. but because i want something to be true doesnt make it true and i must be cautious about geting carryed away



i've outlined several simple tests in this thread my personl fav been the can you see someones aura pokeing up from behind a curtain test. its simple easy and would work regardless of the mechanisms involved produceing that aura these simply ask you to do what you've been doing but in a situation that removes the posibility that other forces are at work. we would put you in a situtation where you would be force to rely on auras and only auras and see how you fair i dont see how you could have any complains about that? you your self have said you would like to know whats going on with you why dont we find out?



you say sience can't answer all the questions about spiritualy i would point out that you are saying you detect energy comeing from people and gain information from that energy this is well within the powers of sience to test as sience can test anything that has some influence on the universe. this is well within the relms of sience to examin.



you say



Yes there are things that science can explain that some hysterical or fanatical spiritualists claim are spirit orbs in photos, or that they converse with Princess Diana and are actually schizophrenic, or that they can plunge their hands into peoples bodies and pull out their cancer.



Those kind of claims are not fair to people and are in my opinion ridiculous and sound crazy.




why are those clames any diffrent from your own? and why is your partiular beleafe out side of sience where as theres are not.



you accuse me of haveing an ego and been closed minded yes i do have an ego and its a bloody big one biggrin but i am not the one been close minded i have said time and time again that i am willing even happy to accept what your saying if that is what the tests show. you however have refused to undergo any experiment that would demonstrate your clames even for MILLION DOLLARS???? what posible reason could you have for not doing it, you gave no explanenation. surely you can see why people on the outside of your beleafs looking in are septical when you so determindaly avoid any situation that could validate or disprove your clame!

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1165506333)


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Mascot
Mascot

enthusiast

Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 301
Posted:I'd like to raise a glass to scepticism.



you have to be open minded in life, but not so open minded that your brains fall out. People believe a lot of weird and contradictory stuff. There are many religons out there and a vast range of spiritual beliefs. It's hard to know what to believe.



Personally I'm having none of it. If it can't be demonstrated in a repeatable test then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist. Thats scepticism. I may be wrong about some things but I'm damn sure I'll be right about a lot more than I'm wrong about.

EDITED_BY: the boy g (1165505843)


Walls may have ears but they don't have eyes

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:if you are intrested i do have a pet theory which would explain both the things you can do and would remain within the current bounds of sientific knolowage (of course this is just an educated guess theres no way of knowing without testing the theory if its correct)



i think where dealing with a form of synaesthesia (where people see sounds or hear smells etc). however what i think your synaesthesia is doing is leting you see emotions in the form of auras. if you have ever seen savonts (people with autism capable of increable mental feats of memory caculation and annalis) you'll know that the subcontious mind takes in vasly more information than you are aware of it then filters this information and only gives you what it thinks is relivent at the time. if it didn't you would suffer from information overload. however what i think is happening is your subcontious is sucking all that information in and then displaying it to you visualy in the form of an aura kinda a visual summery of the vast amount of information it has colected without you realising this is good because if it gave it to you directly you wouldnt be able to cope. for example the guy whos aura turned brown before he colapsed may have had a tiny wince seconds or his pupils dilated suddenly or his mussils relaxed unusaly. conchusly you didn't spot these things but your subcontous did spot these tiny changes and said wait up somethigns wrong here and it informed you of this by changeing his aura. this would explain how you are able to get usefull information from auras at the same time as explaing why you would fail tests like the aura pokeing out behind the curtain test.



its kinda like a heads up display on an aircraft giveing you addition information quickly without you haveing to go through all the data your self. but its a thing your brain is genererateing internaly not a energy external to your body that your seeing infact its your subcontous's interpritation of the world around you you see when you look at auras.

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1165507371)


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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted: Written by: the boy g


you have to be open minded in life, but not so open minded that your brains fall out.


I'm so stealing this quote. wink


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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted: Written by: 87wt2gxq7


I'm so stealing this quote. wink



ditto beerchug


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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:I find it surprising jeff that you have picked my post to pieces, yet when it comes to the proof that you all have asked for and I have given you, you have all convienantly ignored it.

funny that. smile


The materialist who has offered the one million dollars, James Randi is on record for saying, I always have a way out (of paying).
On Randis alleged $1m offer: Utter rubbish! A verbal sleight of hand to fool, hoodwink, mislead and deceive people. Many applied but no gifted medium was EVER allowed to even attempt the challenge. While on this subject, Randi himself FAILED to win $1million from Victor Zammit he FAILED to show why Victors objective afterlife evidence cannot be accepted.

Other than that Im not a dancing monkey who will preform for cash!

Rob I do need to point out that I gave you examples of reading people without seeing them or knowing them. This guy Darren Brown you keep talking about must be good at what he does (Ive never heard of him) but as I told you I don't employ the same 'tricks' he does. I have given you examples of this. Which you ignored. smile

Its my belief that poeple who use science to explain things were supposed to look at all the possibilites presented is that correct?

Yet it seems some very important things were left out there which would have quite a siginifant impact on an "outcome."
(my intensive medical testing, the ability to read people without meeting them) If you were in such a persuit of truth why would you fail to include these things? Is it because they point to the possibliity of things not meeting what you belive to be true? Is it a Cognitive dissonance?

Jeff I really giggled at my 'imagination' coming up with these colours around people because the drs at the PA hospital monotered my brainwaves when I was tuning in and they changed quite considerably from one type of brainwave (alpha? I dunno, I cant provide you with the right info there Im sorry, I can always ask my Dr) to include another type that they see priodominantly in sleep or coma patients.
So my imagination must be pretty strong to be changing those brainwaves. eek eek

Is it difficult for you guys to fathom that these things I am telling you about HAVE been tested before with amazing results? If your science is prooving that these things exist why would you keep questioning it?

Required proof to back up statements of science prooving the existance of afterlife etc.

a lawyer who presents the case for the afterlife.

Dr schwartz

BTW rob...Im not unique in this gift matey. Also at no time do I claim to be anywhere near as good as these guys! hall of fame for gifted psychics

so Jeff... will you take up the one million dollar challenge and prove the information on Victor Zammit's website wrong? I mean you keep challenging me on it....

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander then hey? biggrin

Repeatedly I am finding that no amount of science will convince any skeptic who does not want to be convinced about the afterlife. rolleyes smile


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:im a science nerd through and through... but also looked at the history of sciences and the personalities behind it as a bit of a hobby - and as a result treat science with a healthy skeptisism.



 Written by:

the sientific method is a rigorus logical system for determing truth. a system designed to work without bias towards one position or another





the only problem with that, is that the science is only as unbiased as the scientists. personally ive found the characters in the field frequently just as subjective and biased as any other bunch of people on the planet. science is definitely and incredibly useful tool that has help us evolve intellectually and technologically - but that doesnt mean the 'scientific method' isnt perfect. we look at some of the methods of scientific proof from 100 years ago & laugh - will the same happen in 100 years?

i refuse to apply the logical 'just because i cant see or understand something for myself, it cannot exist' principle to this just when i was at uni. the synaesthesia example given by rob is a good one - i certainly dont see red letter 'a's. 100 years ago who have believed it and not questioned your sanity? freud was running about convincing the world that mental health problems was all related to masterbation and incestual urges!

think how far we have come since then.... whose to say in another 100 years our understanding will not of progressed further? possibly to incorporate what dear Valura says she sees?



the issue is undoubtedly complicated by a subset of 'tv psychics' of questionable credibility...



but id be a hypocrit in my own life if i wrote off of not considering the possibility of something existing i dont understand.



peace out

E ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1165559224)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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The Tea Fairy
The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...
Member Since: 2nd Jul 2004
Total posts: 853
Posted:I like your approach, Dentrassi! A lot of science-types often overlook that science and the scientific approach is still evolving and changing over time.

Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:the resason i dismisted your evidence is because as i pointed out the things you clame to do can be done without phycic powers



case in point





this is just one example hes done many diffrent tricks my personal fav is converting people who dont beleave in god to christanity with a touch again with no powers what so ever. and he is not the only person who does these things.



let me simplify what im saying if what your saying is true then you should be demonstrate it in an unabiguous way, a way in which other tequniques cant be used to produce the same effect for example an unabigous test is you should be able to tell where someone is behind a curtain by there aura sticking out over the top.



why does everyone say im dismising you?? all im saying is before im convinced i wanta see you do what you say you can do?? is this an unreasnoble request??? why does everyone keep avoiding this very simple test i've proposed can you do the curtain trick or not its not complex its not ambigous and if you can under scientific conditions i am very ready to beleave you why do people keep ingoreing what i am proposeing i've suggested it at least 4 or 5 times now and it would easly and concicely give us an answer to the whole debate



CAN YOU DO THE CURTAIN TEST OR NOT? it not why not on earth not? the truth of what your saying is not hard to test!!!



why should i not be scepticaly of those who won't do what they clame to be able to do????



as for your afterlife million dollar prize its logical slight of hand it is imposable to prove a negative (that something doesn't exist you can only say its ever more unlikely) it is only posable to prove a positive that something does exist. a good example is it is imposable to prove god doesn't exist (wether he exists or not) but if he does exist i it is posable to prove it (he could in milliseconds if he wanted to) because the prize is for disproof not proof of something it is forever safe unlike the randi prize which is asking you to prove something which is actualy posable your'll also note that the reason no gifted phycic or medium has ever been aloud to perform the proper test is because they ALL FAILED THE PRELIMINATY TESTING not one of them could do what they said they could. hes also asked many famous american phyciscs to perform the test all of them have refused you'll also note that thought the entire history of spirtualism not one person has been able to reliably demonstrate there gifts when the option of useing non super natural methods to acheave there skills is taken away from them.

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1165582847)


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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Valura, you seem to be deeply confused on the nature and purpose of the scientific method.

In the instances described in Zammit's website, there are good explaination for all of them, ranging from simple fraud, illusion and self-desception. None of this proves that that is how those phenomenon are produced, but it does mean that if someone is utilising psychic powers to effect them, they are doing it the hard way.

Thus Mr. Zammit's proposal is vacuous, foolish and devoid of any meaning. Mr. Randi's proposal however works on the tried and tested meathod of scientific experimentation, which would be able to detect virtually any repeatable claim of paranormal powers, whatever that or it's origins may be.

If you seriously believe that there are genuine mediums who are being nefariously prevented from taking the challenge, I would like to see some proof of that. No doubt they would have sought scientific testing by anouther source to provide validation of their abilities.

As for not being willing to earn the million dollars yourself, or even to submit to the quite frankly simple and easy tests we have proposed here, I think that speaks volumes about your subconscious true opinions of your abilities.

If I had magic powers I would go out and earn the million and donate it to a good cause, potentialy saving many lives. Why on Earth would a person not want to do such a thing? Your clearly willing to be a "performing monkey" for money from other sources, why not under scientific conditions?


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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The Tea Fairy
The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...
Member Since: 2nd Jul 2004
Total posts: 853
Posted:rolleyes

Rob, I don't think anyone's intentionally ignoring your point. I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that Valura has indicated that she can still read auras when a person is not visible to her, hence the blanket test would work, but she has no desire to prove herself just for the sake of it.

Jeff, I value your opinions and everything and understand the point you're making, but that came across as a bit harsh!

meditate Lets keep it nice and civil, people!


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Can I just have a few pennies worth?

I'm a fence sitter.

But I've had a healing from Valura.

Now I can't vouch for the other things she says, but I can at least comment on healings.

She knows what she is doing.

That's all I have to say really redface


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted:What does a healing consist of Rouge/Valura?

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted: Written by: The Tea Fairy



Valura has indicated that she can still read auras when a person is not visible to her, hence the blanket test would work, but she has no desire to prove herself just for the sake of it.





WHAT eek (gobsmacked) so she wants us all to beleave she has these increable powers but she can't be bothered to show us



well acualy i do beleave her i do the same thing my self you see i'ed to let you all in on a little secret i am jesus crist come back to earth on holiday just to forstall any arugement on the subject im on holiday so dont expect me to do anything miraculus while im here, im haveing a rest for christ sake wink show a little faith!



but so long as your all willing to accept that i am jesus christ here on my holiday im happy i will confirm to the world without question that you can read auras. after all i am jesus its not like im gona get it wrong smile



I have told this to people before but very few beleave me demanding evidence and such. I get frustrated that some people who are in the scientific mindset have this black and white layout when it comes to spiritual beliefs. I mean are the egos of these people that big that they believe they have all the answers? Do they think that they are that aware of all that is that they have the authority to pooh my beliefs!

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1165592533)


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by: The Tea Fairy



Jeff, I value your opinions and everything and understand the point you're making, but that came across as a bit harsh!





Was it? I dwasn't trying to be mean. I noted the inconsistancy of the logic for not earning the million, and yet being willing to do more difficult thinks in order to earn money. It's also quite befuddling why one wouldn't be willing to use the very simple procedures other have suggested to objectively confirm the alledged abilities.



They just don't make any kind kind of sense, and suggest to me that Valura is unwilling to accept any kind of alternative view. After all, if she did demonstrate powers in a rigorus scientific setting I would believe her, yet it is I who is accused of being closed minded. confused


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Bird
Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6086
Posted:Ok, I wasn't going to let myself get drawn into this one, but I find myself shouting at the computer!

 Written by: robnunchucks


WHAT eek (gobsmacked) so she wants us all to beleave she has these increable powers but she can't be bothered to show us



Why should anyone have to prove anything to anyone?

People beleive different things, and I see nothing wrong with that, the world would be a dull place if everyone followed the same belief system.

I can safely say, Valura has been able to tell me things about my life/family/past that there is absolutely no way that she could have known. I have no explanation for this, and, to be honest, I don't need or want one. I'm quite happy to accept it on face value, its a gift!
I haven't, nor am I going to ask her to prove how she was able to know these things, and I think, even if I did, I'd probably not fully understand the answer.

Sadly, the I'm seeing a trend that the world seems to follow at the moment:

If you don't understand something, attack and undermine it!

Why can't people just accept what others believe?

Whats the big problem with letting people get on with their own way of life when its doing no harm to anyone else?


My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:Valura, you kick ass hug

Ok, I "believe in auras" wooo! Wow, I believe in something that science cannot prove, what a naive fool I must be.

Like Valura, (and Bird) I am a firm believer in energy and working with that energy, Reiki.

As Valura was saying, molecules inside our bodies vibrate so fast they produce this energy which results in what can be described as an aura.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: robnunchucks


WHAT eek (gobsmacked) so she wants us all to beleave she has these increable powers but she can't be bothered to show us




I could be totally wrong, but i thought that not everyone had the ability to see these auras. therefore, we way i see it, asking Valura to prove she can see auras "look rob! there's an aura!" is like saying to a person who is legally blind "look! there's a cat!" when the person lacks the physical ability to see the cat. Just like some people lack the spiritual ability to see the aura.

does that make sense to anyone?


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)

I noted the inconsistancy of the logic for not earning the million, and yet being willing to do more difficult thinks in order to earn money. It's also quite befuddling why one wouldn't be willing to use the very simple procedures other have suggested to objectively confirm the alledged abilities.

They just don't make any kind kind of sense, and suggest to me that Valura is unwilling to accept any kind of alternative view. After all, if she did demonstrate powers in a rigorus scientific setting I would believe her, yet it is I who is accused of being closed minded. confused



Jeff I have stated in a previous post that I definatly take on scienticfic views as well as spiritual. I believe they go hand in hand. One complements the other. I dont think Im closeminded at all. eek

I will NOT do your million dollar test for a few reasons. First and foremost the spiritual law that I follow. I will not use my gift for personal gain. Wether or not I give the money away is irrelivant, because I have used my gift to gain that money in the first place.

If it is not on my spiritual path to attain one million dollars then I will not use my gift to alter things that I have chosen to live before I reincarnate.

If I did use this gift to get the money then I would get my spiritual arse kicked mate, and Im hardly going to do that to satisfy your skeptisicm. I honour myself more than that.shrug

[Quote]As for not being willing to earn the million dollars yourself, or even to submit to the quite frankly simple and easy tests we have proposed here, I think that speaks volumes about your subconscious true opinions of your abilities.[/Quote]

Wow. Im rather taken aback about that. What a huge assumption to make about my subconcious opinions on myself. Do you have the facts and proof from stringant scientific testing to to back up your statement? ubblol

Did it occur to you that I'm not on trial here?

It may just be that I have had this gift for so long now and it has been proven to myself time and time again, so that I know that what I have is genuine.
I am comfertable with my gift, so why would I need to prove things to you? I believe in myself and my talents and my friends and family have witnessed such things first hand, and support me, so thats enough for me.ubbrollsmile

I dont want to come off like Im a know it all or blow my own trumpet dood, I am a spiritual person here for a physical experience and Im learning just as much as everyone else...

I can't even begin to fathom the plethora of things I dont understand but I am always seeking to learn about them and ackowledge them as being a possibility. If Im interested in something I will read up about it and if it doesnt seem to sit right with me then I will disregard it... but that doesnt mean because I dont believe in it, that it isnt correct.

I suppose everyone is right at their own level of understanding ya know?
We all have our truths, I respect yours, I would love to have the same courtesey shown for spiritulisim...

Im not aksing you to start meditating and chanting "Om shanti" just give me some credit here, thats all.

You continually ask for proof. I have offered it on more than one occasion. Not one of you have taken the personal proof I have offered you on bored, so why should I allow anyone to "test" me persay?
Again I will give you some scientific tests that have been conducted on other pyschics to answer your questions. You keep asking for theproof of such things exsisiting and being able to test it scientifically... so here you go....

"The Afterlife Experiements

Recently detailed investigations into the genuineness of mediumship have been carried out by Professor Gary Schwartz and colleagues at the University of Arizona who conducted a number of double blind research studies with some of the top mediums in the United States including (in order of working with them) Laurie Campbell, John Edward, Suzanne Northrop, George Anderson. Anne Gehmen, George Dalzell, Allison Dubois, Catherine Yunt, Mary Ann Morgan, Janet Mayer, Christopher Robinson, Traci Bray, Sally Own, Mary Occhino, Debbie Martin, Doreen Molloy, Sally Morgan, Robert Hansen and Angelina Diana.

He writes:

These mediums have been tested under experimental conditions that rule out the use of fraud and cold reading techniques commonly used by psychic entertainers and mental magicians.

Details of his experiments in the Veritas Program are available on his website


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:hmmm btw Rob.... you look great as jesus! ubblol

If you look back through my posts matey, you would see I have answered your points just as The Tea Fairy was kind enough to point out.

Bird, Jo, Rougie, The Tea Fairy = hug ubblove


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Twiggy
Twiggy

member
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Since: 8th Jan 2006
Total posts: 162
Posted:I'm a non believer in the aura department. If my senses dont pickup on it, it doesn't exist.
Even if they were there and some people could see them..
There really isnt that much use. Unless you could tell things like the person in the street walking up to you had a clear inication of murderer aura.
Whatever colour that would be. I like to think it would be a blacky redish swirling hypnotic mass of cloud. Maybe i am missing out after all. confused


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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:just because our 5 senses don't register something, doesnt mean they don't exist.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:Have been following this for a while now, and to me the main misunderstanding, all personal views aside, seems to be:

Some people want the spiritualists to prove what they can do. From the point of view of not seeing auras or having had any spiritual experiences, this is understandable. We even get this in the bible where Thomas, who's said to have followed Jesus around for years, witnessing all kinds of miracles, doesn't believe in his coming back to life until he sees him with his own eyes.
From Valura's point of view, it seems wrong to have to prove what she's been living with for a long time just because someone doesn't believe in it, and will probably find an alternative explanation even if he does see it.

On the other hand, it can hardly count as "proof" that someone you know from a forum says they can do something. For all, say, you Australians know about me, I could claim that I can walk on water and I could very probably give Jeff(fake) some chocolate cake to testify for me. I'm NOT saying this is what you're doing, Valura, just why someone with a scientific mindset wouldn't accept it as proof.
We don't know your medical file, and the conditions under which you've told people things you couldn't have known.

So... I think this debate can go on for a while, but it's unlikely anything will come from it.

Rougie, it would be like putting a cat somewhere in a room and asking a blind person who claims he can sense cats to point at it. The other "blind" people, who can't sense the cats, would know it's there from the start and then accept that the other person's claim to be able to see them is true.

Twiggy, do you believe in atoms? Or ultrasound?


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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