Forums > Technical Discussion > fire snakes

Posted: 19th Jul 2005
Fire ropes or snakes look well cool, But the flames are a bit scary cos they're huge!!

You can be limited on moves such as tangles with ropes because of the thickness, and lack of weight on the end (again, depends which ones)

I would say get some normal fire poi first, and then get some ropes.

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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005
ABSOLUTELY get your fire poi first. have you ever actually spun fire before? it would probably be better for you to get used to fire without having it be so huge and close to your body.

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Posted: 25th Jul 2005
yeah ive spun fire before, i use fire devil sticks so im used to the fire and i do some fire breathing, i respect what im dealing with.

the main problem is money cos if i buy little poi im prob gonna want something bigger and i havnt got the cash,

so its kinda like one or the other so im not sure.

what dyu think?

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Posted: 25th Jul 2005
maybe get a set of heftier wicks for your first set? I'd still recommend poi before snakes.

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Posted: 25th Jul 2005
Firetoys makes some with weighted ends, I think.

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Posted: 26th Jul 2005
they have ripped my idea!

thats well fookin annoying!

https://www.firetoys.co.uk/juggling/snakes_fire_blades_poi.html

Step (el-nombrie)

Posted: 15th Aug 2005
I got some snakes. I could use some weighted ends, other wise they're very light, the flames are huge and if you don't keep them moving your fingers get rather toasty. ^^

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Posted: 16th Aug 2005
I'd strongly recommend getting your standard fire poi first, and agree with juusan that perhaps you should consider larger wicks on those instead of going for snakes straight away.



Also, like Loves_the_Circus says, you are limited when it comes to moves. If you're not careful, you'll pick up habits which might 'stunt' your spinning progress, e.g. not holding a stall long enough (because you can't really- funny thing once happened to me: a guy with a staff came up to me in the middle of a snakes routine and asked for a light. Not that I could really stop.)- or worse, not doing stalls at all, which are very useful transition moves. Not to mention the fact that you probably won't be able to pull off as many kicks, taps or wraps.



Not to mention waistwraps, which can be slightly trickier with the amount of flame, no matter how good they look.



So when should you move on to snakes then? I'd say probably when you're comfortable with making your own fire toys, because then you know exactly what you are making for yourself, and don't base your technique around someone's not very well-designed snakes. I say this because, to my liking, I haven't come across snakes which are weighted very well. I like snakes which are either heavier at the end, like standard poi, or consistently heavy all throughout- not heavy somewhere near the middle bit.



Furthermore, I've also found that some snakes, like:

https://www.firetoys.co.uk/juggling/snakes_fire_blades_poi.html

don't really 'look' very nice. The extra heads at the end look a bit like a compromise solution. I'd imagine that they wouldn't burn very evenly either. Consider that as you spin, the fuel kinda makes it's way to the ends, so as a result, you'd probably get ends still going strong while the area closer to the handles has long started to smoulder.



Anyway. That off my chest, these are my snakes:

https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=7

It took me about 15 hours to make, and for me, they're perfect. If anything at all, they might be an 3cm too long, and it prevents me from doing buzzsaws with them, but when I was making them, I had a bit of flame lust.



They're heavy chain all the way til about 2 cm from the end (not just 10 cm of chain connected to 60cm of rope-style wick- which I find flimsy and aren't responsive enough to moves). there's a strip of 2.5" stitched to the chain, then wrapped and folded and stitched to itself, and stitched to that is another strip of around 4 1/8" wick. This is what they look like lit:

https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=6



Also. Don't forget that if your -primary- toy is going to be firesnakes, can you afford each snake taking in 3-4 times as much fuel as a standard 2.5" tube core poi?



Just throwing some thoughts around. Don't forget to keep us posted on how it goes..

Posted: 16th Aug 2005
that's some great advice ry, and i will take the weighting into account when it's time to snake up.
i rate this thread very informative (i was planning to make a snake that had consistent weighting throughout the length of the wick, but realise with your post that a disproportinate distribution is prob best)

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Posted: 16th Aug 2005
Glad to be of help bender.. Though.. to clarify, regarding disproportionate distribution of weight, while I feel end heavy, like standard poi is/can be a good thing, I quite like a consistent weight throughout too.

I would generally suggest that the chain runs the whole length of the snakes, as opposed to having a heavy middle bit and light ends, or unusually heavy ends..

The most important thing to me, is not having the middle really heavy (for example, excess metal links and joining bits) connected to a flimsy piece of wick. You'd probably notice it'll feel like spinning really short poi (though they're not), and it'll be hard controlling the wick bit. It'd probably mess up your isolations too.

Posted: 16th Aug 2005
Basically, whatever Ry says about snakes is on the money: his are beautiful to use, even for a mediochre spinner like me... here's

a wonderful photo of him using them (nice one Gita!)

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Posted: 16th Aug 2005

Written by: mech

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they have ripped my idea!

thats well fookin annoying!

---

Companies ripping people's ideas off and passing them on as their own? Surely not

When I released the [Old link] a couple of years ago, poi designed to have no exposed metal parts with a cathedral head and kevlar rope up the chain like snakes Mr Adam Rice said:

Written by: adamrice

---

This is an ingenious design. I like it.

---

followed by:

Written by: adamrice

---

I wonder about the durability of these. Assuming you're trying to keep the rope sections dry, they'll tend to get burned. Kevlar is flame resistant, but it ain't fireproof.

---

So I said:

Written by: flid

---

I share your concern about the rope loosing its integrity, but the main cost of the wick is the cathedral head. Once the rope is starting to get knackered I can replace just the rope part. I wouldn't suggest them to anyone who isn't willing to get out some tools and fix them 6 months down the line

---

And that was that. Until earlier this year, when I noticed the following on adam's site:

Wrapper Poi


Non-Https Image Link


This is an exclusive item designed by Fire By Riz

!

These poi have NO exposed metal anywhere except right under the grip hoops. You can pull off some killer wraps with these poi and not get burned. These poi wear the leashes out before the wicking does. They are recommended for the professional fire performers only.

Am I bitter? Not really, life goes on. Am I glad I'm not an egotistical american whose got their head stuffed so far up their behind that they think they're an elite designer? Hell yes

Posted: 16th Aug 2005





EDITED_BY: Firepoise (1124197647)

Getting to the other side

Posted: 22nd Aug 2005
omg flid, that must've felt awful, mate!
shouldn't you get credit? Milla Jovovitch was sleeping with Luc Besson and he put *her* in teh credits for 'The Fifth Element'... maybe you should recieve the same recognition.

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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005
I've been making fire blades / ropes / snakes / for over the last two years now, (has it really been that long), I use several differing designs, I had to smile when I read Ry's post about takng 15 hours to make a set, without really looking at the pic's I had a really good idea of what you were making, I work night shift and have spent many a night shift during break's hand stitching fire snakes, acutally had some of the other night shift staff helping out as well, takes me about two hours a snake uninterupted, otherwise I think the last set that are now somewhere in america took about a week to make. I use 65 / 80 / or 118mm kevlar for these, depending upon reuqired buring times, for really long buring times over 8 mins I use an outer tubular kevlar sleve as well.



Anyone who's seen the snakes I make will note an helical effect running the entire length, this is due to the way I wrap the kevlar around the chain, which is then stitched through every link with stainless steel welding wire, not really any good for wrist or arm wraps though.



These are either finished off with what can best be described as poi heads at the end of each snake, or left with a single link protruding at the end to facilitate the attachment of addition fire poi heads.



In the essence of reducing build times and extending burning times my later builds are potentially being moved over to 25mm kevlar rope, for evaluation as I know many people make use of this material for fire snakes without problems, although I've always prefered a design that doesn't rely upon the kevlar to hold it together, again these are made with or without aditional heads at the ends



I should really get around to posting some pics sometime, don't have the gallery space though.



mark

Posted: 22nd Aug 2005
wow marco, you must be quite talented!! I could never make fire toys that hella fast.
i would try to avoid exposed metal when it isn't utterly necessary.
i'm excited to hear about your swish designs, would you like me to upload your pix?
b.

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005
I chose to make use of stainless welding wire largely against all the information that I'd researched, mainly I was looking for a material that could be rated as close to zero maintainance. I felt that using kevlar thread to stitch although having certain advantages would probably begin to degrade. If it's exposed metalwork, then I use 22mm tubular wick to sleve the entire length, thus placing a kevlar barrier between the wire and the outer surface for performers who make use of wraps etc.



Either way I'm updating most of the snake / blade / rope designs I make use of, subject to satisfactory completion of prototype testing.



Bender, would be glad to email you some pics if you want to upload them, kevlars on order for the next build, I can of course send you images of the used ones anytime you want, if anyone wants construction details then they can be provided as well.



mark

Posted: 5th Sep 2005
Quotes Flid "Am I glad I'm not an egotistical american whose got their head stuffed so far up their behind that they think they're an elite designer"



It seems Fire By Riz explains Just how the He made the all kevlar Poi ( link to HOP post below)...By looking at the dates of your Flid design post and the date of the post where he explained how he made them , He has you beat by almost a year. Your post being made in late 03 and his being made in early 02...Maybe you missed that thread because you had not joined HOP yet ..





[Old link]

Posted: 5th Sep 2005
thought this would be the best place to ask

i'm just wondering how much fire u get with the HoP fire snakes i will probably get the xl ones but the ones i used before had a different design which looked like u had more fire than the HoP ones i was wondering if this was right or weather the picture is just a bit deceptive

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Posted: 5th Sep 2005
and then there's www.salza.se

can add that i have done wraps with snakes without getting burns.

waistwrap and shoulderwrap.

of course not with a bare upperbody(i'm not a dumbass)
EDITED_BY: ficklampa (1125929332)

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Posted: 5th Sep 2005
i made a set of ropes about a year ago but to ensure extra fire i used a meter of kevelar rope on each one. If you thread the rope through a keyring so that its doubled up, tie a knot in one end and but thread the other end through the loop of the knot before tightning it (if that makes sense??). that way you have double the fire plus a more weighted end. If thats not enough then you can always wire some standard kevekar wick to the knot at the end of the poi.

i cdnoult blveiee taht i cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht i was rdanieg!

Posted: 5th Sep 2005
Did you forget your normal login details mr painjoy, or did you just want to create a false identity to big up yourself? (nb this post was made several minutes after i recieved an email from fire by riz)

I've never laid claim to the design, I've applied for no copyright / patent or anything like that. I haven't however in the past 2 years since met anyone out of about 200 spinners in the UK or EU who've seen your design.

I admit I may have gooten my rizs and rices mixed up, and I was infact not a member of HoP at the time when this thread was made, nor have I seen it.

Replying to a comment in the email i got " People who make firetools offen come up with similar designs ", I agree, however I found even the very similar wording slightly suspicious.

Posted: 5th Sep 2005
Flid

I guess the personal attack rules of HOP don't apply to those attacking another fire tool company... Because you have done it twice now...

"""big yourself up""" ??? No Just correcting your mis-information as freindly as we could...And backing it up with some facts...

This is not Riz, But I do work for him and yes I did make this name to correct your mis-information...

Riz did send you a friendly email last night after I told him of your posting , He then told me to go ahead and post because he douted you had the integerity to clear it up yourself ...

Posted: 6th Sep 2005
What an unpleasant post... despite (very carefully and deliberately, I'm guessing) using the word 'friendly' twice and (also carefully) claiming to be 'correcting mis-information' you spoiled the whole forced professional tone of the thing by making a snide dig at Flid's supposed lack of integrity (especially after his admissions of possible confusion in his last post- where has Flid shown a lack of integrity?). Schoolboy error there.

Speaking of schoolboy errors, why did you only admit to being associated with the company, Fire by Riz, after your identity had been guessed? When does annoyance at or disapproval of a company count as 'personal'? Is a post about a member's negative opinions about Microsoft a personal attack? Should a Tescos checkout girl be personally offended if I am of the opinion that their chicken pies are revolting?

Why not declare yourself an employee of Fire by Riz and point out the post and the implications of an unfortunate coincidence, then wait to see if your opinions on integrity (now there really was an actual personal attack) were justified?

I also notice the Fire by Riz post was also very specific in that the PURE kevlar leashes were not wick and did not soak up fuel, but were merely an alternative to chain that did not become hot for a set of very ordinary poi wicks.

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Posted: 6th Sep 2005
I would be great if this matter be discussed in private.
i like fire snakes, cus thems make seksi photos!

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Posted: 16th Feb 2010
I bought some snakes but dont seem to be getting a good burn. Maybe because i havnt found a good container yet Any suggestions am curling them up in a baking tin which is still too short.Anyone got any ideas on how to get the kero into them better. Had a go with a friends before i bought them and his had a much bigger flame mine seem to only burn at the bottom when i start spinning them

I travel New Zealand with the Gypsytravellers fair, doing tarot readings and selling gems and at night we like to get together and some fire

Posted: 15th Aug 2011
Here's a video where I show how to weave in connectors to a set of MASSIVE DIY firesnakes.