LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:I was playing around with left handed 'contact' throws, where you half wrap the poi and then release it and I found that (completely by accident) I could coil the poi round one arm, release it and it would spring straight onto the other arm and recoil itself there. I actually managed to make the poi go right arm- left arm -right arm off one throw.

So what is this thing, and can it be done intentionally? or is it just impossibly hard (for me anyway)? Help me, contact poiple!

Oh and by the way, I was using very heavy sock poi for this one


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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:what do you mean when you say coil the poi? does it wrap more than one time around your arm?
sounds interesting... but can you explain it a bit more?

also, no doubt it can be done intentionally! and probably is extremely hard! wink


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:my memory of this was somewhat fuzzy, due to the fact it happened so fast and I was under the influence at the time...

anyway this is what I think happened:

left poi does a full wrap around opposite fore arm, done in a spiral pattern so that when the handle is released the momentum of the poi head pulls the rest of the poi through and does the equivalent on the opposite arm. The poi head must be pointing at the opposite arm (or possibly slightly above) when released in order to contact catch it.

I think you can spring these off the arms a few times in a row if you do it fast enough, but accuracy and stability tends to suffer.

I hope that makes sense...


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mtbeer
mtbeer

ARRRR!
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 529
Posted:I imagine it would be quite difficult to replicate that particular move. I do a few single half wrap contact moves but nothing beyond that. True contact poi is usually done with something heavy at the handle end or with meteors. A lot of the contact staff moves can be done with meteors but they take quite a bit more skill.

If you ever manage to get that double+ contact move again, make a video for us. smile


"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:ok, I've been playing around with this, trying to get it to work. What I'm thinking is this:
it is possible to get single ended poi contact to work.

Because of the large weight on one end of the poi, it is therefore possible to 'shoot' the poi through several contact moves in one hard.

However, to have the momentum necessary for this, the combination of contact moves must be done fluidly and very quickly.

basically, it's really tricky but should allow multiple contact tricks in a row. Hm, that sounds quite obvious


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Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Yeah it's very possible to do intentionally. I found this a while back when learning propellors and messing them up.

Lava do you have weighted handles?

It's quite tricky to ensure that the poi body is on the inside of one arm to shoot to the other but if you can get the knack of fluid propellors you can start to play with the timing to ensure that it's in the right place and then quite literally "flick" it off. The flick can go any direction (and often does by itself!) so you can transition upwards, downwards etc.

There's another pass that I think might be what you on about by "coiling". Do you mean where both ends of the poi wrap opposite direction around your arm? Then when unwrapping them they will shoot out like that thing bushmen catch animals with at long distance? But the poi fly without rotation, until your arms disrupts them by meeting it in the middle and repeating the wrap? Then reverse it to go back onto the arm you started with?

You can also wibble with quite a lot of power horizontally for an almost identical trick, very satisfying when you can do it with your eyes shut cool
I wouldn't worry to much about

Lazy are you coming to play? We could maybe have some fun playing with some of these if we find time smile And in person is sooo much easier than by text!

If I have time to put a plan together I'll be doing a Contact workshop so I'm sure we can get some good things going off biggrin


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:sadly I can't come to Play as I have too much work on frown

the last big meet I allowed myself was Falmouth 4, now I must work til the end of September. Met you briefly at Falmouth 3 Dunc, and I remember you playing with propellors, and yes this is kind of similar to that only without the weighted handles, and I guess the transfers from hand to hand would be wibbles....
They're just soooo hard to control! angry
Anyway will practise more and try to come up with something interesting!


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Written by: Lazy
I guess the transfers from hand to hand would be wibbles....



No they're very different, but the end result 'looks' similar but with more wraps. If that makes sense, probably not ubblol rolleyes

No play no fair frown But, when we meet up next be sure to grab me for a session with our balls wink And get weighted handles, you'll love the difference. Put anything in the end and tie a knot; a squash ball, plasticine wrapped in cling film, anything with a little give and not to big is perfect smile

The control will come with practice, mine used to fly all over the place, slowing them down was probably the hardest thing to control of all but sooooo worth the time to learn hw to stop the damn things accelerating!

hug


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:Cool, I think I made sense of that! wink

I've been avoiding weighted handles, as I'm trying to learn contact with normal handles. I know it's probably a bit harder, but i like the challenge and I think it could let you out more power into contact moves. Or am I being stupid? shrug

Look forward to a session when we next meet. hug


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Ahhhhh contacty threads- me likes smile

Bear in mind Guy that a 'weighted handle' doesn't necessarily mean additional weight- a nice braided knot will do the job just fine, and will make your contact repertoire all the larger (you just can't throw non-weighted poi at all and propellors will be practically impossible). I can understand why you'd be hesitant to add weight to the handle as it sort of removes the purity of te poi object (that may sound a little arty farty but I hope you get my meaning). Also, don't believe that because you're adding knots or whatever that you're actually creating a mini meteor- I tried spinning Euans metoers as poi, throwing and wibbling etc and they were totally different- I was useless with them.

So, add weight, make happy contact poi. PLAY wink


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:ditto biggrin

Add weight, try different sizes and see what works best for you. Personally mine are 3:1 ie my heads are 180grams and the handles weight is 60 grams. But it's differnt floats for different boats so see what wrks best for you.

Written by: lazy
I've been avoiding weighted handles, as I'm trying to learn contact with normal handles. I know it's probably a bit harder, but i like the challenge and I think it could let you out more power into contact moves. Or am I being stupid?



No not stupid, experimentation is the key after all. But I think you'll soon find that a little weight to help provide resistance and add control to both ends will help enourmously. And if you've been practicing and been successful without weights, you'll probaby have quite an accelerated learning curve! biggrin


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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Written by: Mr Chutney

(you just can't throw non-weighted poi at all and propellors will be practically impossible)



Just to clarify - you obviously CAN throw non-weighted poi, its just a very different kettle of fish smile


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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:You can throw 'em but you just can't wibble 'em wink

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Well if anyone knows its you smile

Are you actually using counterweights matt? I saw your wibbly vid on |S| and it looked like you were- I seem to remember you use pretty heavy poi?


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Matt poi are special ubblove They made us do silly things in ed ubblol

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:smile hug
Thanks guys. Up till now I've been using 250g sock poi with fairly chunky knots for handles: I think the ability to 'hang' the poi on a large knot has helped me by giving me extra resistance on the handle required to carry out the move (In theory)

However, I was thinking about making some new socks, so here is my excuse to do so! I'll probably go a size down from 250g, whatever that is, any advice on the best way to weight the handle?


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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Yeah the 'good handle weight' question is something I've been pondering recently- I've got a tried and tested manner of tying the poi head but adding weight to the handle has me frowning once more.

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:250g SOCKS! Wow! eek and I thought mine were heavy at 180! You must be using football/rugby/hockey type socks yeah? The knot will definately be adding resitance and centralising weight, especially if it's tied from fatter chunky socks.

I have some thoughts on poi handle weight.
To try and explain when I talk in ratios it's poihead:poihandle

PROBLEMS -Handle size, the heavier you make them generally (depending on materials) the bigger and more of a pain they are to hold and (personally) it makes them harder to spin with as you can't use your 'normal' style.

Advantages - Much easier throwing, you can easily acheive all the throws possible with non weighted poi, ie stall catches etc but can also acheive muchmuch more suich as multiple spins in the air which also decides if you catch in same or oppostite directions.

Minimum weight
1:0 Although obviously mathematically incorrect because if you have handle you have weight, but as far as spinning/throwing is concerned an 'open' sock/cone has only got air resistance so I'll call it 0 for now, unless someone else comes up with something better. If you have a knot tied into it there will be a wegith ratio but could be as low as 10:1 or as high as 5:1 depending on sock/cone material and size of knot etc.

maximum
1:1 Handle/Head are the same weight. That makes it meteor (or mini meteor) and takes away alot of the fun from contact poi (although adds a whole host of other fun) and very hard to acheive without having similar sized ends.

Personally, after playing with various weights and handle sizes (depending on material and size of weight used) a ratio of 3:1 is pretty much perfect for me. I find it gives good resistance and helps control enourmously, once it gets heavier the motion for moves like propellors have to be applied closer and closer to the centre, the closer to the centre I get the trickier I find it until I hit 1:1 weight which then makes it all simple again.

HANDLES - Me and Rossco use the patented Bossco handle technique discovered one hazy Cardiff morning by Ross. Some plasticine, wrapped in two layers of clingfilm (or clingwrap etc) and tied into the handle knot. Weight the plasticine beforehand to ensure both lumps are the same size and away you go.
ADV:
It has some give being that it's squishable.
It tends to form itself into your preferred grip once you've held it a while.
It's readily available from most art shops/woolies etc. It's cheap.
It's dense so you can add quite a bit of weight with a relatively small handle.

DISADV: After a while the clingfilm will split, so have a good look at it once a month to see how it's bearing up.
It's not soft enough to not hurt if it hits you right. Something softer but equally dense would be most useful.

I've tried various other things in the past, and seen quite a few others too. For recomendations I'd advise avoiding hard/sharp edged things. I've seen coins, all sorts of nasty bolts and things and they always wreck the back of your hand/anywhere else you might catch them wrong or get hit by them. Hard items also make wibbles more difficult IMO, and nice soft landing helps get rid of any bounce away.
At the moment I've got another set of poi with squash balls in the handles, work quite well although are a little light for me so I've bulked them up with a really fat knot too.
One other disadvantage is that hard items in the handle will break through the socks after a few rough landings, giving you big horrible holes to sew up and be a right pain in the arse (next time you see me check my poi out, they're trashed!) A combination of hard an soft (eg ball bearings wrapped in plasticine) can be useful and compact but still hurts like hell when they whack you.

Also, I've found that the heavier the poi are in general the more control you have, light poi just skip away accelerating like mad till they fly off, more weight = more resistance = more control of the variables.

Tieing a weight into a handle is always a mare, until you find your preferred method. Again as with so many aspects of this, it's trial and error until you find something that works for you. I use a basic single loop knot (like tieing half of your shoe laces wink ) and then another knot around it to hold it all together and add an extra layer of protection around the weight.

phew, wasn't expecting to type that much. Hope it's been useful to someone hug


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:eek

*hugs Dunc for helpful uberpost* hug

I was thinking sand might work quite well, maybe in a plastic bag then held in place with electricians tape..

by the way it's standard three quid black and white socks I use. They just look quite stretched at the heads


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Three quid black and whites ubblove ME TO! biggrin

Written by: Lazy
I was thinking sand might work quite well, maybe in a plastic bag then held in place with electricians tape..



I'd say the less components you use the better, if you're gonna use placcy bags filled with sand, (I'd suggest the end of a pair of old tights for flexibility and lack of scruntchy sound. Twisted and wrapped over then twisted and wrapped over again three or four times) put them into the sock and knot it at the handle end. It won't be long till dropping has destroyed your leccy tape and it's falling off all over the shop

weavesmiley


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:Still haven't made the new socks yet...

but I was playing with this yesterday:

right hand contact move going under the left armpit to the right side of the neck, release and catch as it flies towards your hand


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Eiso
newbie

Member Since: 5th Aug 2005
Total posts: 1
Posted:how do you make pois?
not fire pois but normaly (I am only 13 years old)
(I am from Holland so my English is not good)
contact me Thank you

Eiso


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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted:yay i've just unlocked contact poi. it is SO MUCH FUN!! how it started was with wrapping the sox about my hands until they went all the way up and then unwrapping them all again (and various variations within that, ie wrap it once around my hand and then underneath the opp. bicep and then unwrap etc etc (for a basic variation..)), and practicing isolations, and also from trying out some contact short staff.
so i "accidentally" stumbled across not holding onto the poi at all, but just keeping them up using forearms, upper arms, neck, back, legs etc.
you can do MASSIVE tangles and just do contact poi til they are untangled and then go into something else. and throws have become super easy to catch, coz you can just put your arm out and (wibble?) them about.
it is so much fun.
it also reminds me of push hands (for those taiji people out there)
yay!


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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.:star:.
.:star:.

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 6th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1785
Posted:I used 5 2pence pieces to weight my handles which gives it a good weight and nice size...less messy than sand!

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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted:i use socks and have four knots in the end of each. makes the ratio about 3:1 in favour of the head (which is a tennis ball, by the way). great to hold on to, too! (suprisingly enough!)

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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