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LuNcHbOx...(Aka. Nathan)-un-single
member
Location: beneath a cloak of self-tortur...
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:i think it is maryland that this dude is sniping off all these people!!!
and i read that he left behind a tarot death card!!!

Your views pleze!!!


-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...


Wikkaman
member
Location: The Birthplace of BlackSabbath
Member Since: 11th Apr 2002
Total posts: 259
Posted:quote: my personal hero!
he was a great man who used comedy to speak so much truth about what was wrong with the world I just read the first line of your post and knew straight away who you meant.
The one the only BILL HICKS
I love it in Aneima where it says "another dead hero"
a hero he was.


The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer-- they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer.-- Ken Kesey


toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:my 2c...
the reason the US constition allows a right to bear arms is so the gov't can be opposed with force, if needed. In the past, guns and other weapons were pretty simple. Pick it up, aim, and shoot. Reload. Shoot. Now you pick up the gun, touch the trigger and a laser bean aims for you, scopes have range finders built in, and the most advanced guns can shoot about 20 rounds/second. Those weapons are only allowed by the military. Having a gun in the US is pointless, from the view of the constitution. It's really hard to beat someone who has laser guided bombs and missles, heat sensing equipment, satellites that can read the date off of a coin on the ground, and tanks that can take a direct hit, and still function. How are you going to counter that with a gun? You could only hope to outlast your enemy so they spend all their money.
IMO, the reason guns are still allowed here, is because the US is the LARGEST arms supplier in the world. It makes up more than 25% of GNP totaling billions of dollars a year. If you boil down the reason behind everything here, you'll find the dollar drives 98% of activity. It's the same reason the family unit has disentigrated. Corporate fraud? Political coruption? GREED. GREED. GREED.
The Dow Jones was under 200 in 1982. It's now at 8000. Even with inflation, that kind of economic growth is astounding! Too good to be true? No, just chalk it up to inciting wars in developing countries and selling both sides their weapons...



Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:hehe your comment on the 20 rounds/ second hehe... somewhat true, but I can take a 9mm Berreta, cut down the trigger spring and get the sucker to fire off all 15 rounds in about 3 seconds. Not bad for a gun designed to fire semi auto

So the Dow Jones is responsible for the amount of guns in America?


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Paddy
back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2002
Total posts: 884
Posted:I think toneman was trying to say that the Dow Jones is a reflection of the advances in business thanks to greed, for which people will do things whether it's good for them or not, such as sell guns.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:hehe I know, but all business is out for one thing, money!!! It does not matter if they have good or bad intentions they want their money. So should we all just revert back to not having anything and just grow what we eat. Walk everywhere? No thanks count me out.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:My opinions/thoughts:

A. In our government right now, the right to bare arms (or not) even extends to a plastic knife in an airport. If it weren't a gun, it'd be something else. Where there is a will, there is a way.

B. I am going for a law enforcement person on this one. Having grown up near Attica Prison (of the riot fame), I can tell you that I have known some of the best damn sharp shooters, all worked in prison towers and are very deadly. They tend to appear more innocuous than most military, who have an air about them that distinguishes them. The guys I have known have been sweet, very low-key wallflowers, and then you find out their shooting stats and damn! Military men have this prideful, assured public carriage about them that tends to single them out in a crowd. This also leads to, while anyone can be an on target shooter with practice, not everyone is trained to handle a sniper rifle, which is a different breed of beast. This person is well trained, and loves what he does. I do not think there is torment or low esteem here at all. This man can shoot and more importantly, he can blend.

C. They don't think the tarot card was a calling card from him. They now believe it was a plant from someone else.

D. He doesn't think he is God. He gives the victims a "fighting" chance by mostly aiming for the body.
God would kill or live, not leave it up to the fates.

E. Anyone here read the story "The Most Dangerous Game"? In simple summary, a man takes people, puts them on an island and hunts them like animals...because even safari hunting was not enough for him anymore. Now, anyone here play the shoot 'em up video games, or the ones where you run people over with cars? Anyone ever drive along and see pedestrians outside the car and give them a point value as a joke? This is what I think he is doing (if it is just one person). He is playing a game. He doesn't want to get caught, and media recognition means not much to him. If it did, then he would leave calling cards at each scene. Instead, it's one step ahead of the cops (thus he has a time line to beat, giving the adrenaline rush) and killing is worth 100 pts, leaving them alive worth 50, so to speak.

D. The worst part...I don't think it is so random. I think he is not chosing people but chosing types. The innocent. The every day at their normal tasks makes it much more game like in some areas. Think about it. To plot out to kill someone you know is relatively easy. You know them, their patterns, their weaknesses.
To plot out to kill some random person loading groceries into a car is alot harder. There are so many variables that it seems like it wouldn't be worth laying in wait and possibly getting caught. There is no run in, shoot and run out here. There is a set up and anticipation in sharp shooting. To do it correctly you have to watch a person for a pattern of behaviour and shoot a split second ahead of that pattern so that accurracy is garunteed. That means he spends enough time to evaluate his prey. He knows how to hide, how to blend and how to get away, which means he knows the area he is in very well. There is no randomness at all, except for who gets hit.
It is a living game.

A product of American culture? Maybe. I think this person is a product of society on the whole.
Sick and twisted? Sure, by social standards. Or is he just a normal joe who is bored with life? Alot of people kill who are not legitimately sick in the head, they have what seem to be very sane reasons. I don't agree with it at all, and I think that all murderers should actually commit suicide, they get to kill at not such a high price.

Anyway, just my opinions and thoughts.

*holding breath, waiting for Ray to flare up*


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:On the idea of "If there weren't guns people would use something else":

I always liked the idea of feudal Japan where you could where a sword anywhere. Then everyone would be evenly matched - except in skill, but then everyone would train more.

Translated to today -

Mugger says "I want your wallet"
I say "Draw your sword"

We now fight to submission or death. Much more even than a black market (or legally for that matter) bought gun fired at me from a distance with no chance for me to defend myself.

Or better yet, house robber knocks on door-
"I want your TV"
"Draw your sword"

Can anyone tell I wish I was a ninja?



Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:*start to flare up but then realises that he totaly agrees with Pele, and just sits in his chair and smiles*

Pele I think your pretty much right. crazy huh?

Okay, some comments though,

As far as a sniper rifle being a totaly different monster, she is right.

I deal primarily with the M16, an assult rifle, that weighs not quite 8 lbs with a full magazine inserted. However I do know a thing or two about the sniper rifle that the USMC uses. Now since I dont work with it on a reguler basis, I forget most of the specks. However it weighs about 11-12 lbs, pending the user. Yes each rifle is made to fit the Marine using it. I think that attention to detail is pretty important when your dealing with shots made in the 1000's of yards.

The sniper rifle is small in comparison to most, the round is designed to punch through it's target. The interesting thing about the sniper shots in the New England area, as far as I have heard there have been 0 exit wounds. Meaning that it is either a small caliber round or a small powder count.

The whole art of precision shooting, is amazing when you break it down.

Take your normal click "Bic" pen and look at the tip of the ink part that protrudes from the plastic, there you have what the normal human form looks like from 500 yards!

Imagine trying to sight in on that with an open sight. It is not that hard on a still target. Now try to hit that while its moving around!

Even if they are just standing at their car loading things they are still moving alot.

I agree with Pele, this shooter has ample time to take its shot.

Though I disagree with when she said that he is letting fate decide if they live.

(I know this sounds lame but ohh well)
I play and online game called Ultima Online, when it comes to Player Vs Player combat, I get an adreniline rush and the shakes soon start.

With that in mind, this is real life, I would bet this guy goes throgh the same thing. He exhales when he should hold and poof the shot goes down. Now does he do this every time? No. He doesnt always let the adreniline get to him.

I would think that the targets that are alive are seen as failures to him. A dissapointment.

This was not written to anger anyone, it was written on a nonpersonal level. I tried to remove the idea that people were actualy dieing as best I could.

[ 17 October 2002, 11:53: Message edited by: Raymund Phule ]


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:

[ 22 October 2002, 21:10: Message edited by: Stix ]


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I agree Berzerker. At least that style of duel and fighting was left to skill and generally gave a more level playing field.

Ray, you sure? Did you read all of what I said?
I think we have reached a historical mark in our HOP relationship Ray. We agree on something in a serious discussion. *Bows to you with a wink and a kiss*


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Well Pele, stranger things have happend


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Well, they now think they've got him:

http://www.cnn.com/


It seems like a huge jump from the police knowing nothing - maybe they've been keeping stuff from the media for a while anyway


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:well actually bovril...they now have two...hahaha! bit slow arent you..come on...keep up with the times!
but yes..it did seem they were keeping A LOT from the media



TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:err, yeah, I should have put them, rather than him. Oh well, you know what I meant.
I tend to be pretty ignorant news-wise, since I don't read the papers and don't really get a chance to watch the news on TV, so this is pretty recent news to me


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


ivan..
ivan..

member
Location: Halifax, NS
Member Since: 12th Oct 2002
Total posts: 165
Posted:about the sniper....

i'm gonna start by saying all life is important and any untimely death is a tragic loss...

but....

it seems like the sniper is the biggest threat we hear about on the news
right after the " your children are not safe " thing everyone freaked because sniper appears to be willing to shoot children

but here's the deal .. i think the reason everyone is concerned is because the sniper just messed with the perception of safety ...

there are area's all over the world where walking from the store could get you shot , or stabbed , or mugged ...

because the sniper is working in an area of the middle classes it's a huge thing.. but really , every city has a bad area ..( low income housing drugs and prostitution gangs ) and in those bad area's there are families living with the constant shadow of violence or death.

the sniper just gifted us with the same fear that some people live with all the time..

a sobering thought really.

so the neighbours to the south of us ( canadians ) are blowing it out of proportion.. maybe we should have 24hr cnn coverage of the street kids in brasil getting rounded up and shot , or the kids in seirria leone getting their hands cut off, or turkish cleansing in germany, ... nah .. i'm just ranting

pax,
ivan


thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Well said Ivan.
Many works of literature and art have taken inner city/war torn country violence and put it in middle/upper class backyard. The thing about art is that it can be ignored, or "written" off (excuse the pun).
Many times in history this type of violence has bled it's way through the classes, but it is quickly solved and eventually romanticized by a Saturday evening made for tv movie. The sniper was able to do this slowly, which was torturous for those who chose to live in blissful oblivion.
Ironically I was reading a report on the safest/most dangerous cities in America. Did you know Washington DC is on of the most violent cities on the list, and this was before the sniper?
Ahhhhh, the things we ignore when in a dead panic.

I have a question based on this....how many of you would have been afriad to visit DC during this period? I have a friend who has a business trip to DC for two days and he is frightened to go, which truthfully, I don't understand. With all the people in the city on a regular basis, going there to be stuck at work for two days just seems like the odds are tipped in his favour for survival. *shrug* I just don't know.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:.. but aren't we all somebodies child? Threats to children affect us all.. I'm my dad's child even tho I'm an adult..

Good they got them tho..


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..


LuNcHbOx...(Aka. Nathan)-un-single
member
Location: beneath a cloak of self-tortur...
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:yayaya!!!
they cuaght 'em!
i thinks....


-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...


s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:hmmm... Im agreeing a little with the sword thingy... has anyone read Shogun by James Clavell? It's a fantastic book that I've been peeking over the shoulder of my housie to read...

It talks about the Japanese Samurai's and stuff...

They did stuff like this though... say there was 5 'enemies' and they had an army of 20 men themselves, only 5 of them would go out and fight the 5 enemies. And then if one enemy died, and there was 4, then one would walk off the field so it was always evenly matched.

While killing and murdering ppl horrifies me as much as the next person... I think this is a much 'fairer' way to do it. If there is a way that it should be done that is... hmm... no one should kill anyone for any reason really..

hmmmm... just decided to throw that idea in..

[ 26 October 2002, 21:48: Message edited by: s-p-l-a-t ]


The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Who is the shooter, I mean they can not proove that either of them did it unless one of them says so.

I am not a leagle expert and this is pure speculation but I mean they could walk from the murder charges and just get a weapons violation.

2 people can not be charged with a 1 shot murder can they?


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


LuNcHbOx...(Aka. Nathan)-un-single
member
Location: beneath a cloak of self-tortur...
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:i think it was sumfing about that the guy was
driving the van...acommplice type thingy or something....


-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:but who is the shooter?

you may be able to proove what gun did the shooting but not the shooter. Unless these guys are complete idiots and only one of them has prints on the guns


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:That'll be easy enough to prove probably. The guy has sniper training, has a record of performing very well in target practice and used to take practice in his garden (it amazes me this is allowed!). He also has a history of domestic violence and appears to be quite irrational. It's looking likely this kid that was arrested with him was a victim of abuse.

So if he is the sniper (and it's looking likely) then they'll get him, no worries.



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Actually, they have said that it was a father and his step-son. The father is ex-military who *taught himself* sharp shooting sniper-style. He was trying to teach his son how to do it. They had a "peep hole flap" in the van through which they would shoot and then cover back up. Because of their both being in the van at the time of the shootings, they can both be charged. Something about if you don't stop the crime, you might as well have committed it.

Sick yet ingenious.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


LuNcHbOx...(Aka. Nathan)-un-single
member
Location: beneath a cloak of self-tortur...
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:that is pretty sick...
"Well son i'm goona teach 'ya how to shoot
like a terroisttic sniper....
how about we use your english teacher as a target?"


-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...


Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I hear he wasn't actually a step son, but someone he met and decided to unofficially adopt. The boy's mother didn't approve of the relationship and had no relationship with the guy. He wasn't allowed to see his own kids.

Looking back at the beginning of this thread it appears some of the assumptions were correct. It was a man who had lost everything and had a grudge against an authority that he saw as having tormented him (the state and police) and he took revenge by killng. It gave him back his pride and self worth and humiliated the people he hated.

Very tragic that the only way he thought to reclaim himself was through destroying other peoples lives



Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Dom, no motive has been set yet that is an assumption.

Pele, I dont know about that law, but I do know that the military has a law called carnel knowlege to where if you know a crime has happend and dont report it your are guilty. I dont know if the civilian world has it.

Actually the only speculation that I have seen so far that is right, is that there is military training involved. Nothing else has held true.

Honestly though I thought this guy was white. I was a bit perplexed that they had a black suspect. *shrugs*


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Dom, I got my info from CNN. They traded the white van in for a car with two holes when the white van brigade was sent out.
Whipping Boy and I both thought it was two people.
In the end, all our speculation doesn't matter...it's over, for now. People died. Nothing we say can change any of that.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Very true Pele

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


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