Forums > Social Discussion > I have to...Scientology

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Shaman�s Crossing? is that still in the same series (world) as the farseer trilogy and and the other series that she has writen?

i agree with sethis too, about the way some authors can put real world situations in different contexts but still make really valid thoughtful points. i love your sig too, sethis. i thin druss is prolly my fav character of gemmel's although i havnt read all hiss books yet.
and im not even going to try and say something 'on-topic'.

It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

Written by: Sethis

And since that quote is always taken out of context, I wonder if anyone knows what the rest of the paragraph says?





Technically, it is...

"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."


I can agree with that, and I can see where people would create, or in the case of scientology, to fill that. I simply object to the consumeristic and absolutionist approach. At least the pentacostal church still allows my sister to speak to me (not a good thing really, but my point is, it's allowed).

So...moving on to what inspired this thread in the first place, War of the Worlds. I saw it. I didn't see a Scientology angle in it like critics, and other religious leaders, were claiming. I saw a remake of a classic. *shrug*

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

My favourite is probably Jon Shannow, if you've read the Jerusalem Man series. He has much more "grey" in his morality, and is a very effective anti-hero.

Whoops.

What did anyone actually think of WotW? Has anyone else seen it, and is it worth my money to see it myself?

So Marx isn't actually condemning Religion as such, which is generally why I don't like people using that quote as a criticism of Religion. It's an expresssion of frustration and despair, but not inherently bad.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Quiet, Zoroastrianism.

Icer, Shaman�s Crossing has just appeared in my local bookshop, and I�m saving it for the next wet weekend, probably this w/e. I think it�s a new series.

Pele, so did Luther.

I think coming back to HG�s War of the World puts everything in perspective, apparently he was a bit eccentric. Now, when are they going to do �Men Like Gods�? �

Sethis, dunno about condemning religion. I�ve always taken that quote to mean �belief�in religion helps the masses cope with a life of servitude. In much the same way some tribes use Khat.





Cheers

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

What exactly do I have to light on fire to get you to notice me?

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

ture na sig

Written by: quiet

stone - i was just pointing out that there are polytheistic religions. what's zoroastrianism got to do with it?



Quiet, I am glad it isn't just me that Stone confused. I've been trying to figure out what Luther did too.

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Hi guys, I would have replied sooner but I�ve been away. Just completed the Landmark forum actually; which some people probably lump in with scientology :lol. more on that in another thread.



I will answer the questions, but I�m no longer arguing about religion.



Quiet, I though your example was of a of a monotheist religion. Zoroastrianism, explains a lot.



Pele, what you said about the church reminded me of Martin Luther�s umm proclamations C. 1600.



Cheers

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

*bump*!

ok...i was looking up scientology, cause with all thsi talk of isaac hayes & stuff i though i might as well understand what it's all about.

we did a section on it when i was studying GCSE religion, and i remember thinking it was pretty stupid, but i thought, hey, might as well check out the website and get that side of the story..

so i got as far the pae that explains what they believe and i found this graph...


Non-Https Image Link


now, it may just be me, but this really reminded me of the graph that chris morris shows someone on brass eye that has labels like 'good' 'bad' 'society' 'yes' 'no' with a load of numbers and no explanation...surely this is complete nonsense!?!?! does anyone else understand it??? for a site that supposed to be convincing people it seemed pretty stupid to me. please someone tell me they didni't hire a 10 yr old (or chros morris!!) or am i being dumb, cos i certainly can't make head nor tail.

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

From a friend who was formerly a Scientologist but has now escaped the reliegion (and I do mean escaped, it took him years and had to move house, change his name, his car, and never be seen by any of his scientologist mates as they were literally hunting him down to drag him back)

That he thought a big part of what gets and keeps people is that right from the outset you are led to believe how special you are, and how much better than the non scientologist or "wogs" you are, and how you CAN achieve greatness within scientology. All sorts of different levels of greatness, from being clear (you will not get sick again!) to being immortal.
Not that I disagreee that everyone IS special, but please!

Have been doing a bit of research myself because of the whole Isaac Hayes thing has got my interest peaked too.
Some of their basic principles seem logical to me, its just that there is a whole lot of completely unscientific gaff and pure hogwash in there too.

I am interested in why there are so many prominent would really like to know why there are so many celebrities that are scientologists. Check out the list here on
wikipedia

Only three things are certain: Death, Taxes, and that England will not win back the Ashes in this lifetime.

 Written by: linden rathen


id be interested to take a test just to see what im rated as but no where near me




Sam! But there is! Come out of your halls, turn right on Tottenham Court Road and its 5 mins away near Goodge Street tube there's a really dodgy looking little shopfront for 'The Church of Scientology"...

you going to go get tested?

**I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.**

Douglas Adams

**There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.**

Mary Wilson Little

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Exactly Tao Star You read their whole website and didn't understand anything, perhaps due to per-concieved ideas of what they should be saying.

It's not all bad, they have some good ideas. All cults have their own language, and you didn�t understand because you don�t know their language.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

sorry to say I totaly disagree with you Stone. The reason so many cults draw so many people in is becasue their "language" makes sense to people. The way that the cult lives and works is seductive to people, so they join.

In my opinion the Scientologists are very deceptive, the only way their 'religion' works is by people paying rediculious amounts of money to become clear and immortal, quite often bankrupting themselves in the process. Then the group dumps that person in search for another sucker with a bank account. They definatly worship a god, Money.

I have researched Scientology, I have spoken to very high up members in the brisbane chapter I have even been to their cattle calls, I know what they believe, I also find it very disturbing that there are parts of the religion that you are not permitted to know about until you have reached a certian level.

If they had nothing to hide why wouldnt they tell you what the reliegion is all about straight away? Or do they have to brainwash you into believing?

Please can you explain how their audtiting makes your IQ raise? *snort*
auditing

see also at the bottom of the page the "e meter" and restrictions on auditing ~ funnily enough someone who is constantly "attacking" Scientology (or questioning it) cannot be audited... perhaps this is becasue they have a mind of their own still?

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

Hi Valura, I�m not sticking up for Scientology as much as just debating this cult thing. So, I don�t totally disagree with you You have some good points, like the money aspect and the e-meter.

To put it in perspective, we have three major religions (Jews, Muslims and Christians) who all believe in the same God, all hell bent on blowing each other up and bringing the planet to the verge of World War 3 in the process. So I find it ironic that everyone goes off because Tom Crusise looks for an alternative and a way out of the Matrix.

I agree their "language" makes sense to people and is attractive. The point I was making was that their words probably have different meanings. Like alien could mean something other than a creature from outer space.

It�s possible that people who become �clear and immortal� don�t need money, or have the power to generate it if they need it. And many people worship the money god.

Auditing looks a bit suss with that e-meter, but it�s similar to confession. I can see why they might find someone hostile if they "attack" Scientology.

I suppose it all come down to whether we really have minds of our own. After reading the Artificial Intelligence threads on HOP, I think it�s unlikely.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Alien most definitely does mean creature from outer space. If you manage to reach the level of "Operating Thetan III" then this is what you get told



http://www.xenu.net/archive/OTIII-scholar/
br>


They most definitely believe in aliens

"Moo," said the happy cow.

 Written by: Stone


Exactly Tao Star You read their whole website and didn't understand anything, perhaps due to per-concieved ideas of what they should be saying.

It's not all bad, they have some good ideas. All cults have their own language, and you didn�t understand because you don�t know their language.



no, that's not actually what i said, i understood what they were saying, and i thnk some of their aims are very admirable. however, i think that their methods are...well...not for me . i had no pre-concieved ideas, as i have never looked in to scientology before, and read the website specifically to hear their side!

about the language thing...well, the site is designed for people who don't know about scientology and very clearly explains what all their terms mean and how they came about. please don't accuse me of ignorance....i was attempting to actually be fair and get all the information.

i did not diagree with them before...how can you disagree with someone about whom you know nothing? now i know a little and am not tempetd to join! i don't think that means i didn't understand....

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

 Written by: Stone


Exactly Tao Star You read their whole website and didn't understand anything, perhaps due to per-concieved ideas of what they should be saying.

It's not all bad, they have some good ideas. All cults have their own language, and you didn�t understand because you don�t know their language.



easy now stone

i have spent quite a bit of time reading around scientology too and disagreeing with what they say is very different from mis-understanding it.

to me, its like a distributed, serailised and fragmented sci-fi romp

which would be great except people are losing their lives to this bullsh!t.

scientology is supposed to ultimately empower an individual and make their will all-powerful (which harks straight back to the aims of occult magick) but as far as i can see, it does exactly the opposite.

scientology shuns religion but is based on believing in a story that there is no evidence for - in other words "faith".
i have a big problem with that and that is why i dislike scientology so much - even more than this bunch of scheisters.


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Kiss me now, You're beatiful, For these days are truly the last.

Apologies Tao Star, I misinterpreted �total rubbish to me� .

It�s not for me either.

cheers

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

To me joining scientology is like pumping heroine in your blood vessels... These days there is a lot of information about this "cult" available and many people raise a lot of serious concerns...

Personally I can't understand how anyone would (still) join them - without wanting to get exploited - as much as I have difficulties to understand why someone these days would go into heroin-abuse - without wanting to die... [/sarcasm]

For sure it's a very sophisticated method and sure enough it provides one with energy (clarity I am not so sure of, when looking at T.C.) and maybe even success... but at what cost?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to