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prosparityfire
SILVER Member since Apr 2004

member
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 13
Posted:I know that what I am about to say is going to rub very strongly against perhaps every single person that reads it but I have to throw it out their in hopes for some valid response to give my conscience a context I can not seem to find in this corner of the world
But I think as a human race so many people need to leave (ie die), but who should be the first, should I commit suicide for the sake of the world, who is willing to tie their tubes or snip the cord never have children but only adopt the millions of starving children. When does it become my responsibility or yours and how far do you push the bounds of your life or death. And not some race, religion, or creed or financial group. But as a person I truly and deeply love all creatures and Death ladies and gentleman is something that cannot be avoided, and to what extent should it be fought. A prey will run from its a predator, every living creature will fight for its right to survive, but at what point does their come a dire necessity for death. IN terms of relevancy to the rest of the world which we desperatly depend on, we out number it by100x any creature out their. If wolves or lions or locust were to do this on a fraction of the scale we would enforce sactions or actions to control them, look at the koalas on kangaroo island. I geuss the question is why do we spend so much time just trying to get more time. I doctor, or pharmacy looks for any pill to give you that extra year or Triple bypass surgery to see another anniversary, but at the same time the same society promotes foods and activities that will kill them or put them their. I am so confused. I recommend you go to a nursinghome, and watch those so feeble they cannot close their mouth and make you truly question if they are already dead, the delusion, delirious. People who ultimately deserve to die, there are so many examples of things that would make you sick that compelled in me something I have never felt before I have just never seen a creature in such a dire state and to have someone tell me that they must live, they will leave when god will is it or until they want to die. BUT WHO WANTS TO DIE? And how long do you really digress on the lizard or racoon you ran over or the dog you had to bury. And at what point must they no longer wait. I know this has flavors of the Terri Shiavo debate which will quickly become a circular debate, so I will see where this goes.


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ed209


ed209

Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 122
Posted:No, what I'm saying is this:

Technology is inherently neither good nor bad. That's determined by how we use it (sometimes poorly, sometimes well).

Technology also allows us to see that there is a problem and communicate about solutions. Without it, we reverted to a non-technological age, we would be in the dark. Not only would current problems continue, but we would start the whole bloody cycle all over again.

Therefore, we should realise that technology is essential to solving world problems and work out solutions that utilise it in a sustainable way. Revert to the past and face making the same mistakes again.


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Posted:OK cool, i get kinda carried away during debates too. It was past midnight for me too but im finished my exams biggrin
Hope ya did well.


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:What ed209 said. Extinction, deforestation, massive inefficiencies in using resources and so on have been occurring for as long as people have been around. It's only now that people are beginning to see the problems. Environmental thinking is a pretty recent concept.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted:oi.. you lot!! ---> offtopic this is about the boney man in the black hood, go back to the rainforest thread where you came from... tongue

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Icer
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Icer

just a shadow of my former self...
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 205
Posted:ok, staying completely off topic biggrin the megafauna thing is still being debated, humans prolly werent the sole cause, but environmental change prolly played a part too.
and Environmental thinking is not a pretty recent concept, certain cultures have been very aware of the envoronment and their impact on it. the failures receive alot of press, but their are success stories. Everyone knows about Easter island, but what about the 1000's of islands that didnt callapse? im not saying that we as humans havnt censored this planet up, but just that we cant say its inherent in our nature. i just dont like any generalisation (yes, im aware of the irony).

ok, back to topic, things arent hopeless, dont give up.


It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:But you can't say that the "succeses" weren't just the fact that a low birth rate, diseases and intertribal conflict kept the population down to a sustainable level, rather than any kind of environmental thinking.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted:rolleyes spank

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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ed209


ed209

Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 122
Posted:Spiralx is right but yes, we're off topic (although only because we followed a line of reasoning via small steps that made sense at the time without really any long-term vision, a bit like human progress biggrin).

Okay enough now, back on topic. No don't give up, things aren't hopeless. For a start, those people who believe that choosing not to procreate, dying early is going to save the world, I don't think so.

Consider: you who are willing to make these sacrifices are among the few here who are truly concerned about the state of the world and society. If you remove yourself and your opinions out of the genepool, will this not just leave us with the capitalist, thoughtless people?

Surely then, those of us who care have a responsibility to not take that option, to instead live our lives as best we can keeping in mind the consequences of our actions, and spreading the word to our peers and to future generations?


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Excellent point Ed, how about we start removing the "capitalist, thoughtless people" from the Gene Pool? (kidding, boys and girls)

You're going to Fal4 aren't you? You're saying a lot of things I'm agreeing with.

How about we hold a poll and everyone who's sick and tired of Capitalism can move to a deserted Island and we form our own government? Something along Communist lines would be my preference (providing everyone can actually support the ideology) but I'm open to suggestions... biggrin


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted:biggrin good point man and well made!



edit: (ed not sethis, posted at the same time!)

EDITED_BY: duballstar (1119786230)


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Icer
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Icer

just a shadow of my former self...
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 205
Posted:ok, i know im off topic. just wanted to say that some of the successes are attributable to environmental management. granted there are always interacting aspects, but environmental management has played a key role for many success.
i leave this thread to get back on topic by saying that anyone does want to know about some of the success read "Callapse;how socieites choose to fail or succeed", by jared diamond.


It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

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ed209


ed209

Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 122
Posted:Written by: Sethis

Excellent point Ed, how about we start removing the "capitalist, thoughtless people" from the Gene Pool? (kidding, boys and girls)

You're going to Fal4 aren't you? You're saying a lot of things I'm agreeing with.

How about we hold a poll and everyone who's sick and tired of Capitalism can move to a deserted Island and we form our own government? Something along Communist lines would be my preference (providing everyone can actually support the ideology) but I'm open to suggestions... biggrin



I'm going to resist being drawn into this debate for the benefits of staying on-topic smile

Fal4? >looks at events forum< Ah, Fal4. Intriguing. I'm interested but I really can't. My July's been completely filled up by birthday parties, holidays and a wedding (not mine).

Will however try to make it to a Spitz sometime if anyone here goes.


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prosparityfire
SILVER Member since Apr 2004

member
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 13
Posted:I geuss, my question comes down to responsibility? Who's, what is, how, ramifications, would it be punic? Should I be the one to start blowing up nursing homes, and knocking off senators? I dont believe so, I think it will take the ENTIRE world to come to the realization that this society that we have thrown out there like a comet through the sky starting around 6000 years and counting is not flying but falling like a lead weight.

So am I massichistic in hoping not for people to suffer but for this plague to begin and when people begin to truly question only hope that I can speak loud enough for them to hear us? I dont know how to take starvation, aids, suffering, and prostitution of technology. Because it is leading us hopefully to salvation. The same one Jesus spoke of after the Apocolypse that fundementalist Christians preach us unbaptized doomed children are bound for in ironical sense that they are very quickly feeding and breathing.

So perhaps that is what the true point of Jesus's death was for to start the beginning of the end? (That last sentence just added SOOOO much to the end of the first matrix) Christians are A.Smith who believe the world will be saved when every living creature will be converted and they began after its death. I am sorry but The Matrix is the greatest box office series EVER MADE!!!! not to get off topic though

Or do I sit back in self righteous (awareness) and allow those to fall and hopefully this society will be able to get back up.... I just keep the inside track with Gaia wink


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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave


Take the best of the past, the best of the modern; start to drop the worst of both, see the value of simplicity. As a society, recognise that the ultimate aim should not be mere economic growth, but true contentment and happiness- to the extent that economic growth aids that, so be it; to the extent that it hinders it, then it's time to re-assess priorities.



my goodness! I agree with every word of OWDs sentiments! awesome!

All around the world there are examples of small communities and communes that maintain near or complete self-sufficency for long periods of time, without resorting to slavery and oppression. A Horse and a plow *is* the most efficient way to plow a field in terms of real energy input, and real energy input is going to be key when the world economy falls over because its based on fossil fuel industries.

Slavery is alive and well - why else would you literally kill yourself doing a job you hate? because you have no choice? no choice = no freedom, thats slavery.


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I believe there is currently enough space on the planet for the people we have here...it's just we crowd together as social animals (like monkeys) and we (un)?fortunately care about our family and neighbours. We don't want to see friends and family die so do our utmost to keep them all alive as long as possible.

I feel to an extent this makes us quite selfish as we generally make those choices on how WE would feel if that special person was not with us anymore.

I know a special person in my life changed there mind about suicide after thinking about how his death would effect those who loved him. That realisation alone helped him through a tough time.

I think people love people and i don't know anyone who would want to be alone forever...


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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blu_valley
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

blu_valley

fluffy mess
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 197
Posted:Good point Mynci.

Going back to the adoption vs having kinds of your own. Although I agree with the idea of adoption from a moral standing, I have a firm belief that the human beings main purpose in life is to reproduce.If I am able to have kids, I will,because it is a natural instinct and my main reason for being born (this is just my belief-all the in-between stuff is just a bonus). So I toy with the idea of adoption and having my own onew day.


"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer

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