Forums > Social Discussion > Yet another preventable whitegas accident... (deleted)
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Deleted due to legal issues.
EDITED_BY: NYC (1118155353)
Deleted due to legal issues.
EDITED_BY: NYC (1118155353)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thanks for posting that NYC; personally I don't have any experience of using white gas as I've never felt the need to use anything but paraffin.
Do you happen to know any other names by which white gas is known, or what it would be called in the UK?
I think this kind of info from expereinced spinners (that, in their experience, white gas is involved in all the serious fire poi injuries they've known of) is really useful stuff to get up on public forums.
Thanks for posting that NYC; personally I don't have any experience of using white gas as I've never felt the need to use anything but paraffin.
Do you happen to know any other names by which white gas is known, or what it would be called in the UK?
I think this kind of info from expereinced spinners (that, in their experience, white gas is involved in all the serious fire poi injuries they've known of) is really useful stuff to get up on public forums.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Posted:
NYC- are you able to give us more info on what happened? What went wrong, and why did it go so wrong?
Personally, I always use lamp oil when I spin, but everyone else I spin with usually uses white gas.
The worst thing that I've ever seen is a tiny flame on someones clothing, which was put out by the safety person before it had a chance grow into something larger. The person spinning was completely unhurt.
I've never seen or heard of any of the people I spin with being seriously hurt or hospitalized (touch wood).
I'm not disputing the fact that white gas is a more dangerous fuel- it ignites easier (which could sometimes be considered a good thing!), it burns hotter, and (unlike paraffin/ lamp oil) it's vapours are flamable.
But if everyone spinning is aware of this, and you have alert safety people who do their job properly, I don't see that there's a huge propblem with white gas.
NYC- are you able to give us more info on what happened? What went wrong, and why did it go so wrong?
Personally, I always use lamp oil when I spin, but everyone else I spin with usually uses white gas.
The worst thing that I've ever seen is a tiny flame on someones clothing, which was put out by the safety person before it had a chance grow into something larger. The person spinning was completely unhurt.
I've never seen or heard of any of the people I spin with being seriously hurt or hospitalized (touch wood).
I'm not disputing the fact that white gas is a more dangerous fuel- it ignites easier (which could sometimes be considered a good thing!), it burns hotter, and (unlike paraffin/ lamp oil) it's vapours are flamable.
But if everyone spinning is aware of this, and you have alert safety people who do their job properly, I don't see that there's a huge propblem with white gas.
Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
That stuff is just sooo dangerous.
Shellite would be close Dave, as would un-leaded petrol. I suspect people use it because it is cheap, widely available and doesn’t stink you house and car out.
Shelsol or firewater are a good compromise.
That stuff is just sooo dangerous.
Shellite would be close Dave, as would un-leaded petrol. I suspect people use it because it is cheap, widely available and doesn’t stink you house and car out.
Shelsol or firewater are a good compromise.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
What about Pegasol? Someone once told me that was close to it as well.
Any naphtha derrivitive (lighter fluid) would be close.
And I read this, walked away, thought about it and came back with the conclusion...the majority of the *spinning* accidents that I know of also came from using white gas/camp fuel.
Huh.
Thanks for that bit to munch on NYC.
What about Pegasol? Someone once told me that was close to it as well.
Any naphtha derrivitive (lighter fluid) would be close.
And I read this, walked away, thought about it and came back with the conclusion...the majority of the *spinning* accidents that I know of also came from using white gas/camp fuel.
Huh.
Thanks for that bit to munch on NYC.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
...and remember to wash your hands after each time you touch anything with fuel residue, the includes wicks, dipping containers, fuel containers, small pets. Everyone knows lead is unfashionable, particularly it it gets into your blooddstream via eating with unwashed hands.
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treat fuel with respect, don't drink it. ever.
...and remember to wash your hands after each time you touch anything with fuel residue, the includes wicks, dipping containers, fuel containers, small pets. Everyone knows lead is unfashionable, particularly it it gets into your blooddstream via eating with unwashed hands.
Non-Https Image Link
treat fuel with respect, don't drink it. ever.
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Colemans is a great fuel to spin with but you DO have to treat it with respect. I've been beaking off about this stuff over in the technical section all winter, it's pretty much like spinning with gasoline. Without the smell.
The vapours are flammable, which might be a problem if your tend to put out your smouldering wicks in your fuel bucket, and a bucket spill could lead to disaster, however I feel the extra risks are worth it. It's a very clean fuel to spin with that doesn't leave an oily residue and lights quite nicely on those cold mid winter burns.
If you do have an accident with this stuff, then chances are it'll be serious, you don't want to spin off onto your clothes, which, coincidentally, just happened to me. I didn't have an accident , but I had enough cause for concern to interrupt my burn, it wouldn't have been much of a problem with lamp oil but I was not impressed that it was raining Colemans.
I wonder if the wrapping on my brand new tubecores is too loose ? My old wicks took 2-3 minutes to stop bubbling when they were first dipped on a fiery evening, but my new ones stop bubbling in 10 seconds, I feel WAY too much fuel spins out of them even after I've wrung them dry in my fist, and yet, the fuel still rained.
Colemans is a great fuel to spin with but you DO have to treat it with respect. I've been beaking off about this stuff over in the technical section all winter, it's pretty much like spinning with gasoline. Without the smell.
The vapours are flammable, which might be a problem if your tend to put out your smouldering wicks in your fuel bucket, and a bucket spill could lead to disaster, however I feel the extra risks are worth it. It's a very clean fuel to spin with that doesn't leave an oily residue and lights quite nicely on those cold mid winter burns.
If you do have an accident with this stuff, then chances are it'll be serious, you don't want to spin off onto your clothes, which, coincidentally, just happened to me. I didn't have an accident , but I had enough cause for concern to interrupt my burn, it wouldn't have been much of a problem with lamp oil but I was not impressed that it was raining Colemans.
I wonder if the wrapping on my brand new tubecores is too loose ? My old wicks took 2-3 minutes to stop bubbling when they were first dipped on a fiery evening, but my new ones stop bubbling in 10 seconds, I feel WAY too much fuel spins out of them even after I've wrung them dry in my fist, and yet, the fuel still rained.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I can't do eating tricks with any fuel other than white gas, though.
Speaking of which, I have two cans of Coleman's that I want to get rid of. I can't just dump and light it on the pavement...so how to get rid of it?
I can't do eating tricks with any fuel other than white gas, though.
Speaking of which, I have two cans of Coleman's that I want to get rid of. I can't just dump and light it on the pavement...so how to get rid of it?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
You know, personally I'm not really opposed to people spinning with white gas, but I have to say that I have seen soooooooo many stupid, retarded and idiotic accidents that could've been so easily avoided .
Like when you're spinning off your excess, and making those nifty little fire trails on the floor/ground make sure your freaking dip bucket is coverd!
Please! For the love of Christ, if you're going to spin with white gas put the lid back on your bucket before you light up.
I have seen that happen so many times it's pathetic. It really makes me feel violent, and that's not a way I like to be.
I use kerosine. Yeah, it's a little smokier, and stinkier, but (aside from the fact that I actually adore the smell anyway) I don't have to worry about fire raining down on my from above if I don't spin off well enough. I don't have to worry (nearly as much) about my clothes going up if one of my wicks should hit me or I'm doing wraps. Then there is the fact that you can (should you so desire) actually put your lit wicks out in your dip bucket if you use kerosine (though you have to it quickly, and for the sake of the inexperianced I ask you to take my word on that. Just because I was stupid enough to try that, doesn't mean you have to be too).
I have seen far too many accidents and more than enough (two is two too many) near fatalities to ever want to use white gas personally.
I have found one good use for it though, now that I think about it.
It get's very cold here in the winter time and Kero doesn't always like to light, so I'll mix 1 part white gas per 10 parts kerosine so I don't have to stand there with my zippo for 10 minutes freezing my ass off.
But that's the only use I have for it.
Well.... aside from fueling campstoves and what not, lol.
EDITED_BY: SickpuPpy (1117613657)
You know, personally I'm not really opposed to people spinning with white gas, but I have to say that I have seen soooooooo many stupid, retarded and idiotic accidents that could've been so easily avoided .
Like when you're spinning off your excess, and making those nifty little fire trails on the floor/ground make sure your freaking dip bucket is coverd!
Please! For the love of Christ, if you're going to spin with white gas put the lid back on your bucket before you light up.
I have seen that happen so many times it's pathetic. It really makes me feel violent, and that's not a way I like to be.
I use kerosine. Yeah, it's a little smokier, and stinkier, but (aside from the fact that I actually adore the smell anyway) I don't have to worry about fire raining down on my from above if I don't spin off well enough. I don't have to worry (nearly as much) about my clothes going up if one of my wicks should hit me or I'm doing wraps. Then there is the fact that you can (should you so desire) actually put your lit wicks out in your dip bucket if you use kerosine (though you have to it quickly, and for the sake of the inexperianced I ask you to take my word on that. Just because I was stupid enough to try that, doesn't mean you have to be too).
I have seen far too many accidents and more than enough (two is two too many) near fatalities to ever want to use white gas personally.
I have found one good use for it though, now that I think about it.
It get's very cold here in the winter time and Kero doesn't always like to light, so I'll mix 1 part white gas per 10 parts kerosine so I don't have to stand there with my zippo for 10 minutes freezing my ass off.
But that's the only use I have for it.
Well.... aside from fueling campstoves and what not, lol.
EDITED_BY: SickpuPpy (1117613657)
Jesus helps me trick people.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I don't have any problems lighting my paraffin soaked fire-rope wicks because the ends are frayed- the small strands of kevlar light really easily and set off the rest of the wick.
Originally I saw the frayed ends as just my shoddy workmanship, but now I use them on all my fire ropes just because they make them so easy to light.
IMO, it'll help get your message across if you elaborate and post details of the accidents; not only because hearing the nasty details will help convince some people not to use white gas, but also because those who continue to use it will have a better idea of what things lead to disaster and hopefully avoid them.
Written by: stout
however I feel the extra risks are worth it. It's a very clean fuel to spin with that doesn't leave an oily residue and lights quite nicely on those cold mid winter burns.
Written by: SickpuPpy
I have found one good use for it though, now that I think about it.
It get's very cold here in the winter time and Kero doesn't always like to light, so I'll mix 1 part white gas per 10 parts kerosine so I don't have to stand there with my zippo for 10 minutes freezing my ass off.
I don't have any problems lighting my paraffin soaked fire-rope wicks because the ends are frayed- the small strands of kevlar light really easily and set off the rest of the wick.
Originally I saw the frayed ends as just my shoddy workmanship, but now I use them on all my fire ropes just because they make them so easy to light.
Written by: SickpuPpy
I have seen far too many accidents and more than enough (two is two too many) near fatalities to ever want to use white gas personally.
IMO, it'll help get your message across if you elaborate and post details of the accidents; not only because hearing the nasty details will help convince some people not to use white gas, but also because those who continue to use it will have a better idea of what things lead to disaster and hopefully avoid them.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
i've never tried white gas, but i have used pure alcohol when spinning with chemicals to alter colour. It'd not something I want to do again, it's just too dangerous compared to kero in terms of transfer onto clothing. There's nothing quite like executing a perfect a wrap you've done hundreds of time before with kero and finding your trousers on fire.
Ditto, I have a set of cathedral heads that are very frayed around the edges. They are still very securely held together by a big bolt through the middle, but are incredibly easy to light
i've never tried white gas, but i have used pure alcohol when spinning with chemicals to alter colour. It'd not something I want to do again, it's just too dangerous compared to kero in terms of transfer onto clothing. There's nothing quite like executing a perfect a wrap you've done hundreds of time before with kero and finding your trousers on fire.
Written by: OneWheelDave
I don't have any problems lighting my paraffin soaked fire-rope wicks because the ends are frayed- the small strands of kevlar light really easily and set off the rest of the wick.
Ditto, I have a set of cathedral heads that are very frayed around the edges. They are still very securely held together by a big bolt through the middle, but are incredibly easy to light
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
could a white gas user please do me a favor and read the side of the bottle. Id like to know what it is, chemically, not its 'street name'
cheers, pete
could a white gas user please do me a favor and read the side of the bottle. Id like to know what it is, chemically, not its 'street name'
cheers, pete
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I've only had my clothes on fire once. I've only had a really annoying little burn from the metal once. I've only spun with white gas once. Yep, all the same spin & in the States.
I've only had my clothes on fire once. I've only had a really annoying little burn from the metal once. I've only spun with white gas once. Yep, all the same spin & in the States.
member
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
Posted:
I'm in agreement with NYC on this - white gas is unnecessarily dangerous imo, the flash point is way too low.
Seems very popular though in the US, and I've been called a liar for saying this in the past:...
Dipping a hot wick in a tin of white gas can cause disaster, as can stray 'sparks' of frayed wick or wire wool.
Jo.
I'm in agreement with NYC on this - white gas is unnecessarily dangerous imo, the flash point is way too low.
Seems very popular though in the US, and I've been called a liar for saying this in the past:...
Dipping a hot wick in a tin of white gas can cause disaster, as can stray 'sparks' of frayed wick or wire wool.
Jo.
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
i've had a few burns from metal, using kero. none horribly nasty, though one scarred a little (dont pick at blisters!).
Never used anything other than kero, so i can't compare. pity about the smell, though. You can't hit the clubs after/while doing fire, cos the bouncers think you're a pyro.
i've had a few burns from metal, using kero. none horribly nasty, though one scarred a little (dont pick at blisters!).
Never used anything other than kero, so i can't compare. pity about the smell, though. You can't hit the clubs after/while doing fire, cos the bouncers think you're a pyro.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
'Whitegas' AKA 'Coleman fuel' is used as a camping stove fuel.
The only problem with retelling accident stories is that all too often someone will find some small iota of procedure that 'they'd never do' and then find false confidence that any accident could never happen to them.
Of the accidents I've seen or heard of, the main problem is that whitegas 'transfers' so easily. This makes it very easy to light clothing (even 'safer' natural fibers), hair, skin, the ground, other people, and in this latest particular instance, handles.
Keep in mind, here in the US, I have NO idea where to get Kerosene and lamp oil is sometimes hard to find. The Burningman community also puts more emphasis on the "Burning" and less on other aspects of poi. Which is cool when you get amazing bonfires and fire art, but less cool when you have people choosing Whitegas over Lamp Oil because you get a bigger "Woosh"...
I think it's even more dangerous at festivals and such when you have a large population of folks that aren't fire savy. That's often the X factor that can turn a safe situation into a fiasco. Plus, throw in the drug factor and you've got a really unsafe situation. At PDF last weekend, my most traumatic image is a guy on drugs running FULL speed headfirst into a telephone pole (there were some fairy lights on them and he wanted to jump through the circle of lights not realizing they were supported by the telephone pole.) It turns out you bounce really far if you hit something head first... ouch. Now if he had kicked over a bucket of whitegas instead he could have killed some folks.
'Whitegas' AKA 'Coleman fuel' is used as a camping stove fuel.
Written by: Mand
NYC- are you able to give us more info on what happened? What went wrong, and why did it go so wrong?
The only problem with retelling accident stories is that all too often someone will find some small iota of procedure that 'they'd never do' and then find false confidence that any accident could never happen to them.
Of the accidents I've seen or heard of, the main problem is that whitegas 'transfers' so easily. This makes it very easy to light clothing (even 'safer' natural fibers), hair, skin, the ground, other people, and in this latest particular instance, handles.
Keep in mind, here in the US, I have NO idea where to get Kerosene and lamp oil is sometimes hard to find. The Burningman community also puts more emphasis on the "Burning" and less on other aspects of poi. Which is cool when you get amazing bonfires and fire art, but less cool when you have people choosing Whitegas over Lamp Oil because you get a bigger "Woosh"...
I think it's even more dangerous at festivals and such when you have a large population of folks that aren't fire savy. That's often the X factor that can turn a safe situation into a fiasco. Plus, throw in the drug factor and you've got a really unsafe situation. At PDF last weekend, my most traumatic image is a guy on drugs running FULL speed headfirst into a telephone pole (there were some fairy lights on them and he wanted to jump through the circle of lights not realizing they were supported by the telephone pole.) It turns out you bounce really far if you hit something head first... ouch. Now if he had kicked over a bucket of whitegas instead he could have killed some folks.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Another danger, and one which I've posted about elsewhere, is someone turning up at a meet where everyone uses only paraffin (probably most UK meets, and definitly the case at Sheffield) with white gas (or something worse) and, thoughtlessly, not telling anyone.
Those who use paraffin/kero often dunk freshly extinguished wicks into the fuel- if that fuel happens to be white gas, they're going to get seriously hurt.
Another danger, and one which I've posted about elsewhere, is someone turning up at a meet where everyone uses only paraffin (probably most UK meets, and definitly the case at Sheffield) with white gas (or something worse) and, thoughtlessly, not telling anyone.
Those who use paraffin/kero often dunk freshly extinguished wicks into the fuel- if that fuel happens to be white gas, they're going to get seriously hurt.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Retro Fyre Wizzard
538 posts
Location: Pietermaritzburg (KZN), South Africa
Retro Fyre Wizzard
538 posts
Location: Pietermaritzburg (KZN), South Africa
Posted:
i know exactly what you mean... we do it too... to cool the smoking wick. Even when the paraffin get quite warm, even on a warm night, we have never had a problem with the fuel flaring... i have even done tests with paraffin and burning wicks to explore how non-volatile it really is. In my opinion, unless there are specific reasons (like colour), there is no need to use any other fuel. We have yet to discover a fuel that is safer (from a fire hazard point of view) than parrafin!
Written by: onewheeldave
Those who use paraffin/kero often dunk freshly extinguished wicks into the fuel- if that fuel happens to be white gas, they're going to get seriously hurt.
i know exactly what you mean... we do it too... to cool the smoking wick. Even when the paraffin get quite warm, even on a warm night, we have never had a problem with the fuel flaring... i have even done tests with paraffin and burning wicks to explore how non-volatile it really is. In my opinion, unless there are specific reasons (like colour), there is no need to use any other fuel. We have yet to discover a fuel that is safer (from a fire hazard point of view) than parrafin!
Regards 
Shu
(Ice-E FyreStorm - Group Manager & Performer)
You know those people your parentals warned you about?... I'M ONE OF THEM! 
Yes, i do bite!!
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
It's a fair point, but the kind of people who think like that are probably unlikely to reflect on, and modify, their behaviour towards safety, whether or not the story is elaborated on or just referred to as a serious accident.
Whereas other people, who are more open to giving these issues serious consideration, would, I think, benefit from detailed analyses of what exactly went wrong, and the consequnces of it.
I think the current sensible attitude to stuff like fire-breathing on HOP (which is much better than it was five years ago) is due, in part, to the fact that some of the discussions have not been just 'serious accident', 'fatality' etc, but have gone into a lot of depth about how exactly the breathe went wrong, and included dteailed descriptions of the physical and mental trauma that resulted.
My opinion is that the factor you mention will occur, but will be well compenstaed for by the fact that many of those people will be beyond help anyway (at that moment in time), having already made their minds up; and, by the greater number of open-minded spinners who will benefit from it.
That's just my opinion, and, if anyones got compelling reasons why the opposite could be true (ie that going into details could be bad), then I hope they post them, because, on issues like this, it's important for us to get it right.
Written by: NYC
The only problem with retelling accident stories is that all too often someone will find some small iota of procedure that 'they'd never do' and then find false confidence that any accident could never happen to them.
It's a fair point, but the kind of people who think like that are probably unlikely to reflect on, and modify, their behaviour towards safety, whether or not the story is elaborated on or just referred to as a serious accident.
Whereas other people, who are more open to giving these issues serious consideration, would, I think, benefit from detailed analyses of what exactly went wrong, and the consequnces of it.
I think the current sensible attitude to stuff like fire-breathing on HOP (which is much better than it was five years ago) is due, in part, to the fact that some of the discussions have not been just 'serious accident', 'fatality' etc, but have gone into a lot of depth about how exactly the breathe went wrong, and included dteailed descriptions of the physical and mental trauma that resulted.
My opinion is that the factor you mention will occur, but will be well compenstaed for by the fact that many of those people will be beyond help anyway (at that moment in time), having already made their minds up; and, by the greater number of open-minded spinners who will benefit from it.
That's just my opinion, and, if anyones got compelling reasons why the opposite could be true (ie that going into details could be bad), then I hope they post them, because, on issues like this, it's important for us to get it right.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Pinapple Pete, Colemans ( which is technically different from white gas ) is classed as a naphtha. It's a blend of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons in the C5 to C9 range.
So the accident was a burning handles thing NYC? I've had my handles fall into my fuel bucket before and it means that those poi are unusable for about half an hour, LOTS of time for the fuel to evaporate but if you just wring them out and then light up, then you're asking for trouble.
I keep my fuel bucket about 100 feet from where anybody is spinning, it lives under my van and after I finish a burn, I spin my way over to it in an effort to cool down my wicks before redunking.
OWD has a good point, id there's a communal fuel area, and people are dunking wherever they want, well......yes there is a real possibility of disaster, the fuel bucket won't explode but it will flare up if somebody dunks smouldering wicks in it....so having this stuff in a common area with a bunch of kerosene users around isn't a good idea.
Read the side of the can, there's enough warnings on it to let you know, without a doubt that this is indeed,,,,,NOT kerosene.
Pinapple Pete, Colemans ( which is technically different from white gas ) is classed as a naphtha. It's a blend of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons in the C5 to C9 range.
So the accident was a burning handles thing NYC? I've had my handles fall into my fuel bucket before and it means that those poi are unusable for about half an hour, LOTS of time for the fuel to evaporate but if you just wring them out and then light up, then you're asking for trouble.
I keep my fuel bucket about 100 feet from where anybody is spinning, it lives under my van and after I finish a burn, I spin my way over to it in an effort to cool down my wicks before redunking.
OWD has a good point, id there's a communal fuel area, and people are dunking wherever they want, well......yes there is a real possibility of disaster, the fuel bucket won't explode but it will flare up if somebody dunks smouldering wicks in it....so having this stuff in a common area with a bunch of kerosene users around isn't a good idea.
Read the side of the can, there's enough warnings on it to let you know, without a doubt that this is indeed,,,,,NOT kerosene.
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
I know there's been lots of fuel threads, but this seems a relevant place to say...
A fuel that is increasingly popular here is a variety of stinkless paraffin marketed as Shellsol d60. It has a flash point of 66 degrees, and is not even classified as a hazardous material. People have even been allowed to take it on airplanes. One UK lad was trying to use it to make 'circles on the ground' and flashy vapour effects in my backyard last week and it was completely not happening. It burns about 40% cooler than other stinkless fuels (eg ShellsolT: Firewater/Firesol) and is just fine for spinning. Nice flame, maybe 2 seconds longer to light (gee...) I have started to buy it in 20litre drums from a local chemical supply company, very cheap that way.
It is not sold as 'fuel', but is normally used in industrial applications eg solvents in hand cleaners, lubricants and aerosols. I'm sure with a bit of lateral thinking and research similar products are available in any hydrocarbon happy country eg US, UK. Maybe not at the local garage... but try a generalist chemical supply company....
Written by: Shu
We have yet to discover a fuel that is safer (from a fire hazard point of view) than parrafin!
I know there's been lots of fuel threads, but this seems a relevant place to say...
A fuel that is increasingly popular here is a variety of stinkless paraffin marketed as Shellsol d60. It has a flash point of 66 degrees, and is not even classified as a hazardous material. People have even been allowed to take it on airplanes. One UK lad was trying to use it to make 'circles on the ground' and flashy vapour effects in my backyard last week and it was completely not happening. It burns about 40% cooler than other stinkless fuels (eg ShellsolT: Firewater/Firesol) and is just fine for spinning. Nice flame, maybe 2 seconds longer to light (gee...) I have started to buy it in 20litre drums from a local chemical supply company, very cheap that way.
It is not sold as 'fuel', but is normally used in industrial applications eg solvents in hand cleaners, lubricants and aerosols. I'm sure with a bit of lateral thinking and research similar products are available in any hydrocarbon happy country eg US, UK. Maybe not at the local garage... but try a generalist chemical supply company....
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
wicked information gabe - cheers
cole. x
wicked information gabe - cheers
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Indeed wicked.
My only concern would be what it gives off when it burns. Something like Lamp Oil has clearly been evaluated for what types of fumes it gives off since that's its primary use.
Solvents are nasty in general.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
Indeed wicked.
My only concern would be what it gives off when it burns. Something like Lamp Oil has clearly been evaluated for what types of fumes it gives off since that's its primary use.
Solvents are nasty in general.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
where's a chemistry teacher ehwn you need one?
where's a chemistry teacher ehwn you need one?
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Well, the supplier tells me they also sell a lot of it to be used in restaurant lamps. Decorative thingies on tables. SO that would imply it's pretty OK. We had 5 people spinning with it at once in my yard the other day and no one complained of any effects. I would have been chundering with kero.
(um, that's Australian for "I would have felt nauseated with odouriferous paraffin)
I have MSDS's if you want any technical type info. Also for a new product marketed as Solvent 11.
Well, the supplier tells me they also sell a lot of it to be used in restaurant lamps. Decorative thingies on tables. SO that would imply it's pretty OK. We had 5 people spinning with it at once in my yard the other day and no one complained of any effects. I would have been chundering with kero.
(um, that's Australian for "I would have felt nauseated with odouriferous paraffin)
I have MSDS's if you want any technical type info. Also for a new product marketed as Solvent 11.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Any idea what it is?
I mean chemically speaking?
Any idea what it is?
I mean chemically speaking?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Sorry, I don't know more than the MSDS says which is fairly vague,,, just says Chemical entity: Paraffins.
I will contact the supplier tomorrow and see if they can tell me. It is made by Shell however so I suspect the product and info is internationally available. I won't be searching the internet any further tonight for it though cos I'm getting cold and it's way past bedtime!
Sorry, I don't know more than the MSDS says which is fairly vague,,, just says Chemical entity: Paraffins.
I will contact the supplier tomorrow and see if they can tell me. It is made by Shell however so I suspect the product and info is internationally available. I won't be searching the internet any further tonight for it though cos I'm getting cold and it's way past bedtime!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
walmart sells lampoil...
it is about 50% more expensive than the whitegas, but I normally end up mixing my fuels 50/50 now.
Too many pure coleman's fuel burns on my arms.
walmart sells lampoil...
it is about 50% more expensive than the whitegas, but I normally end up mixing my fuels 50/50 now.
Too many pure coleman's fuel burns on my arms.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
SHELLSOL D60
SHELLSOL D60 is derived from selected petroleum feedstocks which have been highly refined and reacted with hydrogen to convert aromatics to cycloparaffins. This deep hydrogenation results in products of controlled composition with very low aromatic contents, negligible reactive impurities and a low, sweet odour. SHELLSOL D60 consists predominantly of C10-C12 paraffins and naphthenics
SHELLSOL D60
SHELLSOL D60 is derived from selected petroleum feedstocks which have been highly refined and reacted with hydrogen to convert aromatics to cycloparaffins. This deep hydrogenation results in products of controlled composition with very low aromatic contents, negligible reactive impurities and a low, sweet odour. SHELLSOL D60 consists predominantly of C10-C12 paraffins and naphthenics
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Neeto. Where do I get some?
Neeto. Where do I get some?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
How odd that people have such different experiences of the same thing. Here in San Francisco, Coleman's camping fuel, a.k.a. white gas, is very popular. There are two fire-meets that I go to, and at both of them it's almost exclusively white gas or a white gas/lamp oil mix. I know one spinner who uses kerosene (or paraffin to you across-the-pond folks). Granted I'm relatively new to the scene but I've never witnessed an accident -- except a nasty tangle once and a poi head go flying off due to the ball chain breaking -- but neither of those incidents had anything to do with the fuel being used (unless the hotter burn of white gas caused the chain failure where kero wouldn't have? possible I suppose).
On the other hand, the spinners that I play with are extraordinarily safety-conscious and we always make our three areas are far away from each other. By three areas I mean: dipping area (where the fuel stays for the duration of our session), personal effects area and spinning area. Is the three areas thing universal? And we use spin-off buckets. And we always have duvetyne ready, just in case. I've never seen it used, except when the spinner gets tired and just wants to stop. Of course using the more volatile fuel with more lax precautions will likely result in an accident sooner or later, but if the spinners involved ARE safety conscious, I see no reason why using white gas is worse. I made the switch from kero as soon as I could because the smell makes me nauseous. When I was still taking lessons, my teacher insisted on kero because it was less volatile and we were a bunch of newbies. I'm still a newbie, but farther along, and as soon as I was comfortable I switched. I just can't stand kero -- even watching my friend who spins with it I have to stand farther away than when I watch someone spin with white gas because the smell just literally turns my stomach.
I don't want to sound cavalier about it -- I get that it's a more volatile fuel and of course of course of course the fuel & the fire must be treated with care & respect. That's the most important thing, really. Isn't it?
How odd that people have such different experiences of the same thing. Here in San Francisco, Coleman's camping fuel, a.k.a. white gas, is very popular. There are two fire-meets that I go to, and at both of them it's almost exclusively white gas or a white gas/lamp oil mix. I know one spinner who uses kerosene (or paraffin to you across-the-pond folks). Granted I'm relatively new to the scene but I've never witnessed an accident -- except a nasty tangle once and a poi head go flying off due to the ball chain breaking -- but neither of those incidents had anything to do with the fuel being used (unless the hotter burn of white gas caused the chain failure where kero wouldn't have? possible I suppose).
On the other hand, the spinners that I play with are extraordinarily safety-conscious and we always make our three areas are far away from each other. By three areas I mean: dipping area (where the fuel stays for the duration of our session), personal effects area and spinning area. Is the three areas thing universal? And we use spin-off buckets. And we always have duvetyne ready, just in case. I've never seen it used, except when the spinner gets tired and just wants to stop. Of course using the more volatile fuel with more lax precautions will likely result in an accident sooner or later, but if the spinners involved ARE safety conscious, I see no reason why using white gas is worse. I made the switch from kero as soon as I could because the smell makes me nauseous. When I was still taking lessons, my teacher insisted on kero because it was less volatile and we were a bunch of newbies. I'm still a newbie, but farther along, and as soon as I was comfortable I switched. I just can't stand kero -- even watching my friend who spins with it I have to stand farther away than when I watch someone spin with white gas because the smell just literally turns my stomach.
I don't want to sound cavalier about it -- I get that it's a more volatile fuel and of course of course of course the fuel & the fire must be treated with care & respect. That's the most important thing, really. Isn't it?
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
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