Forums > Social Discussion > Yet another preventable whitegas accident... (deleted)
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Deleted due to legal issues.
EDITED_BY: NYC (1118155353)
Deleted due to legal issues.
EDITED_BY: NYC (1118155353)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Good morning world!
Hmmm.. harking back to an earlier thread and discussion...*hesitates to start it up again* re youngsters....I am starting to see why there may be such alarm/divergence on that topic... if people 'there' are routinely using such volatile substances....compared to 'here' where we routinely use far less dangerous ones.... (I've never heard of anyone around here using camping fuel to spin with.)
The spin off bucket is just a fabulous idea, saws the vid recently and I was really impressed with that...
As to where to find D60.. well, I think it is a case of someone in your area doing some phone/leg work around chemical companies...originally doen here by eg a community circus group and also juggling shops who have been retailing KsolT for a long time. (Bless them for doing it... Save us from Kero! But it sounds even more ugent to save 'them' from white gas!)
I found out where to get it from professional spinners...may not be the same supplier as the shops (I wouldn't expect them to say where they source it!) I literally drive out there and buy it and now I sell it on at cost price to mates.The suppliers know it is used for fire spinning.. when Ksol recently was taken off the market here they were quite knowledgable about alternatives for the purpose!
ps.. Ksol wasn't taken off for safety reasons, but commercial reasons by the manufacturer. Most of us have gone the D60 route. Some people have gone to 'Solvent 11' which has a much lower flashpoint. But I think they are the sort of people who do fire breathing.
Good morning world!
Hmmm.. harking back to an earlier thread and discussion...*hesitates to start it up again* re youngsters....I am starting to see why there may be such alarm/divergence on that topic... if people 'there' are routinely using such volatile substances....compared to 'here' where we routinely use far less dangerous ones.... (I've never heard of anyone around here using camping fuel to spin with.)
The spin off bucket is just a fabulous idea, saws the vid recently and I was really impressed with that...
As to where to find D60.. well, I think it is a case of someone in your area doing some phone/leg work around chemical companies...originally doen here by eg a community circus group and also juggling shops who have been retailing KsolT for a long time. (Bless them for doing it... Save us from Kero! But it sounds even more ugent to save 'them' from white gas!)
I found out where to get it from professional spinners...may not be the same supplier as the shops (I wouldn't expect them to say where they source it!) I literally drive out there and buy it and now I sell it on at cost price to mates.The suppliers know it is used for fire spinning.. when Ksol recently was taken off the market here they were quite knowledgable about alternatives for the purpose!
ps.. Ksol wasn't taken off for safety reasons, but commercial reasons by the manufacturer. Most of us have gone the D60 route. Some people have gone to 'Solvent 11' which has a much lower flashpoint. But I think they are the sort of people who do fire breathing.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Why am I always on the wrong end of these threads?
I don't think there should be a debate about this and I won't start one unless there is a barier breached. So I pose the barier question. If I use white gass/coleman fuel am I a bad person or wrong?
Why am I always on the wrong end of these threads?
I don't think there should be a debate about this and I won't start one unless there is a barier breached. So I pose the barier question. If I use white gass/coleman fuel am I a bad person or wrong?
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Wow Cody, 'bad person' sounds a bit harsh!
You (or someone) might use it cos:
~it's easily available in your area
~there is no alternative in your area
~you are highly experienced and use it from choice, knowing the risks and it has qualiities you like that balance its volatility
~it's what you were taught by people around and don't know any different
~you live in a very very cold place and other stuff is too long to light for shows
~you got left heaps by a traveller/inheritance and would rather use it than have it sitting around inthe garage
~You have a psychic or totemic affinity with the colour white
No wrongs!
Wow Cody, 'bad person' sounds a bit harsh!
You (or someone) might use it cos:
~it's easily available in your area
~there is no alternative in your area
~you are highly experienced and use it from choice, knowing the risks and it has qualiities you like that balance its volatility
~it's what you were taught by people around and don't know any different
~you live in a very very cold place and other stuff is too long to light for shows
~you got left heaps by a traveller/inheritance and would rather use it than have it sitting around inthe garage
~You have a psychic or totemic affinity with the colour white
No wrongs!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
That one person's name wouldn't happen to be Indigo would it?
Written by: blueboy
Here in San Francisco, Coleman's camping fuel, a.k.a. white gas, is very popular. There are two fire-meets that I go to, and at both of them it's almost exclusively white gas or a white gas/lamp oil mix. I know one spinner who uses kerosene (or paraffin to you across-the-pond folks).
That one person's name wouldn't happen to be Indigo would it?
Jesus helps me trick people.
member
99 posts
Location: west coast
99 posts
Location: west coast
Posted:
I have never spun fire with anything other than white gas... And never had any problems. All the people I know use it too, and so far there have been no issues whatsoever, not even close calls.
That said, I do believe in being very, very careful, and in planning the space and the responsibilities.
I was trapped in a fire once, a long time ago. I will never forget how powerless I was surrounded by flames, unable to save myself, or the other person. Fortunately, we were rescued and not seriously hurt. But I had nightmares for years, and still occasionally do.
It was one of the reasons I started to learn to play poi, as a means of dealing with that fear and gaining some sense of control over it.
I have a deep abiding respect for fire,and though I now enjoy spinning, I am never, ever casual about it . I know many people say they enjoy the "risk" element, but that aspect of it certainly does not bring me pleasure!
Initially I even found it hard to watch people I love spin fire. I would hold my breath,unable to fully see the beauty, stuck in fear that something would go wrong, and I would have to somehow deal with it. What if I couldn't? They could be hurt. That possibility is very , very real to anyone that has ever been in a fire.
With practice, I have become more confident that if I need to I can deal with a fire. Yet, I still couldn't bring myself to let Andy use his "extreme!!" rope poi around me-- simply too much fire for me too manage! Oh well. It will never be a solely a game for me.
I am careful to the point some people find me paranoid ! I see it as practical though. That is why I appreciate knowing what others problems with the fuel have been, so I can consider them, and avoid as much as possible repeating their mistakes.
If you teach, teach fire safety and responsible spinning too. All aspects of it. Familiarity with the specifics of the fuel you use, whatever it is- is the best safeguard, and all of us should show extra caution in group spinning environments.
Here, we are often in a fire ban situation most of the summer
( extremely dry, high fire hazard) - so consideration of suitable spinning ground is essential ( I still like beaches best!)
Fire is a powerful element and deserves our respect. Glad to see so many people thinking about it!
Thanks for the info on new fuels too...
love, hugs and best wishes to you all,
Andrea
I have never spun fire with anything other than white gas... And never had any problems. All the people I know use it too, and so far there have been no issues whatsoever, not even close calls.
That said, I do believe in being very, very careful, and in planning the space and the responsibilities.
I was trapped in a fire once, a long time ago. I will never forget how powerless I was surrounded by flames, unable to save myself, or the other person. Fortunately, we were rescued and not seriously hurt. But I had nightmares for years, and still occasionally do.
It was one of the reasons I started to learn to play poi, as a means of dealing with that fear and gaining some sense of control over it.
I have a deep abiding respect for fire,and though I now enjoy spinning, I am never, ever casual about it . I know many people say they enjoy the "risk" element, but that aspect of it certainly does not bring me pleasure!
Initially I even found it hard to watch people I love spin fire. I would hold my breath,unable to fully see the beauty, stuck in fear that something would go wrong, and I would have to somehow deal with it. What if I couldn't? They could be hurt. That possibility is very , very real to anyone that has ever been in a fire.
With practice, I have become more confident that if I need to I can deal with a fire. Yet, I still couldn't bring myself to let Andy use his "extreme!!" rope poi around me-- simply too much fire for me too manage! Oh well. It will never be a solely a game for me.
I am careful to the point some people find me paranoid ! I see it as practical though. That is why I appreciate knowing what others problems with the fuel have been, so I can consider them, and avoid as much as possible repeating their mistakes.
If you teach, teach fire safety and responsible spinning too. All aspects of it. Familiarity with the specifics of the fuel you use, whatever it is- is the best safeguard, and all of us should show extra caution in group spinning environments.
Here, we are often in a fire ban situation most of the summer
( extremely dry, high fire hazard) - so consideration of suitable spinning ground is essential ( I still like beaches best!)
Fire is a powerful element and deserves our respect. Glad to see so many people thinking about it!
Thanks for the info on new fuels too...
love, hugs and best wishes to you all,
Andrea
wherever you go, there you are
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
Well that's good.
It's not really white gas that's the problem after all.
It's people who don't use it with enough care (kinda like the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people" thing).
Most accidents with fire can be so easily avoided it seemes completely stuipid to me that most of them occur in the first place. Sadly they do, however.
I just use kerosine because I've never witnessed an injury resulting from it's use or (more to the point) it's mis-use. With one exeption of a friend of mine doing leg wraps whilst wearing kneepads (and he was pretty drunk as well), and his poi got caught up in his pads and he burned himself a bit, but that can hardly be blamed on the kero. It should really be blamed on his own dumb ass for spinning on the lash. That's the only kero related burn/fire injury I've ever seen as opposed to the countless mishaps I've seen resulting from the combination of stupidity/carelesness and white gas.
In short I use kerosine because it just has a much greater stupidity buffer than most other fuels.
Well that's good.
It's not really white gas that's the problem after all.
It's people who don't use it with enough care (kinda like the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people" thing).
Most accidents with fire can be so easily avoided it seemes completely stuipid to me that most of them occur in the first place. Sadly they do, however.
I just use kerosine because I've never witnessed an injury resulting from it's use or (more to the point) it's mis-use. With one exeption of a friend of mine doing leg wraps whilst wearing kneepads (and he was pretty drunk as well), and his poi got caught up in his pads and he burned himself a bit, but that can hardly be blamed on the kero. It should really be blamed on his own dumb ass for spinning on the lash. That's the only kero related burn/fire injury I've ever seen as opposed to the countless mishaps I've seen resulting from the combination of stupidity/carelesness and white gas.
In short I use kerosine because it just has a much greater stupidity buffer than most other fuels.
Jesus helps me trick people.
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
newgabe: is D60 the new shellsol? im gradually emptying my drum here.
newgabe: is D60 the new shellsol? im gradually emptying my drum here.
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
It sounds like there's a lot of you who go to fire meets where safety is a priority, and your feeling is that, in those circumstances, the dangers from white gas volatility are offset.
But remember that not all fire meets are safety conscious, at some it is the norm that spinners are sometimes drunk or using drugs; that under-age kids are fire breathing etc.
That's the two extremes; the meets I've been to in the UK tend to fall somewhere in between- they're not especially safety conscious (eg no extinguishers, fire blankets etc) but they're not as bad as some I've heard of online.
Obviously, for the dodgy meets where safety is low, white gas is not good.
However, even for meets where safety is carefully considered, from a safety perspective, paraffin is still preferable.
Even at a safe meet, accidents can (and, given time, will) happen- can you guarantee 100% that a drunken bystander can't, during a moment of group inattention, find him/her self over by the fuel, where they can accidently drop their cigaratte, kick over the fuel container etc.
The simple fact is that paraffin is safer than white gas, in all scenarios.
Puts it much more concisely
It sounds like there's a lot of you who go to fire meets where safety is a priority, and your feeling is that, in those circumstances, the dangers from white gas volatility are offset.
But remember that not all fire meets are safety conscious, at some it is the norm that spinners are sometimes drunk or using drugs; that under-age kids are fire breathing etc.
That's the two extremes; the meets I've been to in the UK tend to fall somewhere in between- they're not especially safety conscious (eg no extinguishers, fire blankets etc) but they're not as bad as some I've heard of online.
Obviously, for the dodgy meets where safety is low, white gas is not good.
However, even for meets where safety is carefully considered, from a safety perspective, paraffin is still preferable.
Even at a safe meet, accidents can (and, given time, will) happen- can you guarantee 100% that a drunken bystander can't, during a moment of group inattention, find him/her self over by the fuel, where they can accidently drop their cigaratte, kick over the fuel container etc.
The simple fact is that paraffin is safer than white gas, in all scenarios.
Written by: SickpuPpy
In short I use kerosine because it just has a much greater stupidity buffer than most other fuels.
Puts it much more concisely
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
OK here we go: I'm pretty confident of this info, it's based on MSDS and my convos with the supplier.
Shellsol T is also known as KSolT. It has a flashpoint of 50* (That's what a lot of Aussie people have been using as it is retailed through juggle shops.) It is not available through my supplier anymore, I believe Shell is no longer making it. Shell are continuing to make Shellsol D60 however, with a higher flashpoint (66*) Some people have been using it for a while, and I suspect more people will move to it now. That's what I'm choosing to use.
There is also another product available called Solvent 11. Made by Mobile I believe. Lower flashpoint (38*) Some people have switched to that, I will continue with D60 for safety reasons (cos I'm a muppet spinner!!!)
I am not sure what the juggle shops will go for...... or whether they have another product line again.....
Is that all clear
Written by: pineapple pete
newgabe: is D60 the new shellsol? im gradually emptying my drum here.
OK here we go: I'm pretty confident of this info, it's based on MSDS and my convos with the supplier.
Shellsol T is also known as KSolT. It has a flashpoint of 50* (That's what a lot of Aussie people have been using as it is retailed through juggle shops.) It is not available through my supplier anymore, I believe Shell is no longer making it. Shell are continuing to make Shellsol D60 however, with a higher flashpoint (66*) Some people have been using it for a while, and I suspect more people will move to it now. That's what I'm choosing to use.
There is also another product available called Solvent 11. Made by Mobile I believe. Lower flashpoint (38*) Some people have switched to that, I will continue with D60 for safety reasons (cos I'm a muppet spinner!!!)
I am not sure what the juggle shops will go for...... or whether they have another product line again.....
Is that all clear
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
As lightning suggests, I think the “lighter” fuels have a place for transfers and such. I luv shelite/colemans, but with a flash point of minus 30oC, they seem a bit too volatile for every day use.
Me new mate at work hehehe “the petrochemist” heheh said that the "lighter fluid" fraction in petrol was to get cars started, and the other components of petrol were for power. He suggested pure lamp oil (purified kero) or one of the isoparaffins ( flash point around 30oC). These solvents, can be sourced in bulk for a lot less than the retail ten buck a litre - try $1.50
If pressed, I would probably dampen down lighter fluid with pure lamp oil as a compromise.
cheese
As lightning suggests, I think the “lighter” fuels have a place for transfers and such. I luv shelite/colemans, but with a flash point of minus 30oC, they seem a bit too volatile for every day use.
Me new mate at work hehehe “the petrochemist” heheh
said that the "lighter fluid" fraction in petrol was to get cars started, and the other components of petrol were for power. He suggested pure lamp oil (purified kero) or one of the isoparaffins ( flash point around 30oC). These solvents, can be sourced in bulk for a lot less than the retail ten buck a litre - try $1.50 If pressed, I would probably dampen down lighter fluid with pure lamp oil as a compromise.
cheese
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Yep, cheap is true. I am paying $2.50 a litre for D60 in 20 litre cans. Can get bigger ones but that is what I am comfortable handling. I have been selling it one to folk at cost price to get safer/stinkless fuel out there... public service
and also so I don't have to smell anything nasty like kero or burned flesh!
Yep, cheap is true. I am paying $2.50 a litre for D60 in 20 litre cans. Can get bigger ones but that is what I am comfortable handling. I have been selling it one to folk at cost price to get safer/stinkless fuel out there... public service
and also so I don't have to smell anything nasty like kero or burned flesh! .....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
That's actually been pretty clearly explained. If you've experimented with whitegas and lamp oil it's very easy to see the difference. I accept most of your arguement and understand that MOST of the time MOST of the people will never have a problem with whitegas.
Whitegas IS more volitile than lamp oil.
Whitegas DOES transfer to clothing.
Whitegas WILL light and burn without the presence of a wick.
Whitegas WILL burn on skin, lamp oil will not.
A spilled whitegas WILL spread and burn on pavement, lamp oil will not.
I think there is some value to your arguement, but in a site full of newbies, I think it's irresponsible to suggest that there is no difference.
In response to the "I've never had any problems with whitegas" sentiment, I don't think that that's disagreeing with anything that anybody has said.
It is absolutely introducing what I feel is an unnecessary risk in most situations.
If you spin in a safe environment with whitegas, following proper safety protocols, you PROBABLY could go your whole life without having a problem. The same way that 99% of us could drive without a seatbelt and never regret it.
Sometimes it makes me sad when people get cocky about their safety in a "it could never happen to me" kind of way.
NOBODY has perfect safety precautions.
If you burn enough, an accident WILL happen. And if you're using whitegas, chances are you WILL get hurt more than if you had been using lamp oil.
I see no real reason to take that additional risk.
Written by: blueboy
I see no reason why using white gas is worse
That's actually been pretty clearly explained. If you've experimented with whitegas and lamp oil it's very easy to see the difference. I accept most of your arguement and understand that MOST of the time MOST of the people will never have a problem with whitegas.
Whitegas IS more volitile than lamp oil.
Whitegas DOES transfer to clothing.
Whitegas WILL light and burn without the presence of a wick.
Whitegas WILL burn on skin, lamp oil will not.
A spilled whitegas WILL spread and burn on pavement, lamp oil will not.
I think there is some value to your arguement, but in a site full of newbies, I think it's irresponsible to suggest that there is no difference.
In response to the "I've never had any problems with whitegas" sentiment, I don't think that that's disagreeing with anything that anybody has said.
It is absolutely introducing what I feel is an unnecessary risk in most situations.
If you spin in a safe environment with whitegas, following proper safety protocols, you PROBABLY could go your whole life without having a problem. The same way that 99% of us could drive without a seatbelt and never regret it.
Sometimes it makes me sad when people get cocky about their safety in a "it could never happen to me" kind of way.
NOBODY has perfect safety precautions.
If you burn enough, an accident WILL happen. And if you're using whitegas, chances are you WILL get hurt more than if you had been using lamp oil.
I see no real reason to take that additional risk.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I do have a Burning Man White Gas story.
I was spinning with Conclave at the Burn. Our fuel dump was a large canister with a lid that could be closed over it. Inside one half of the cans had kero and the other half of the cans had white gas.
Needless to say...one of the cans of white gas went up. The kero never caught.
The safety slammed the lid shut to snuff the fire. As soon as he opened the lid, *WOOSH!* the fire started again. Why? Because it was so hot inside the fuel dump that as soon as there was enough oxygen to sustain a fire, it just spontenously started again. He eventually had to slam the lid and hold it for 5 minutes while most of our quadrant spun out their fuel and started to go dark.
Not only does white gas go up easily, but it STAYS lit.
The reason I use it is because it burns cleaner and because it's useful for contact/tracing/eating. However, I'm planning on switching to use Coleman's only for contact and kero for spinning. Besides, kero lasts longer.
I do have a Burning Man White Gas story.
I was spinning with Conclave at the Burn. Our fuel dump was a large canister with a lid that could be closed over it. Inside one half of the cans had kero and the other half of the cans had white gas.
Needless to say...one of the cans of white gas went up. The kero never caught.
The safety slammed the lid shut to snuff the fire. As soon as he opened the lid, *WOOSH!* the fire started again. Why? Because it was so hot inside the fuel dump that as soon as there was enough oxygen to sustain a fire, it just spontenously started again. He eventually had to slam the lid and hold it for 5 minutes while most of our quadrant spun out their fuel and started to go dark.
Not only does white gas go up easily, but it STAYS lit.
The reason I use it is because it burns cleaner and because it's useful for contact/tracing/eating. However, I'm planning on switching to use Coleman's only for contact and kero for spinning. Besides, kero lasts longer.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Then I say don't use white gass if you are new at this. All my newbies use lampoil untill I feel they are capable of using white gass.
I go through about 2 gallon a week average, lampoil is much more expensive which is a factor for me.
Dr Lightning knows Burn night is the night for problems to happen. Those who have never been will never trully understand the pure energy and excitement which is bad for your concentration. We did the same thing one year, luckally my brother was there and used the CO2 fire extinguisher and we never skipped a beat. I didn't even know we had a fuell dump fire untill he told me afterwards.
Using white gass requires experience and a cool clear head. If you don't match that discription, stick to lamp oil, but don't get complacent. Plus I don't like the idea of putting out your lit poi by dunking them in lampoil or kero. Smouldering or hot is a little better, but I just let them cool down before there near any fuel.
Oh and Sick pup, I don't think Indigo spins anymore. He used to be the best, but faded away with a bullhorn.
Written by:
I think there is some value to your arguement, but in a site full of newbies, I think it's irresponsible to suggest that there is no difference.
Then I say don't use white gass if you are new at this. All my newbies use lampoil untill I feel they are capable of using white gass.
I go through about 2 gallon a week average, lampoil is much more expensive which is a factor for me.
Dr Lightning knows Burn night is the night for problems to happen. Those who have never been will never trully understand the pure energy and excitement which is bad for your concentration. We did the same thing one year, luckally my brother was there and used the CO2 fire extinguisher and we never skipped a beat. I didn't even know we had a fuell dump fire untill he told me afterwards.
Using white gass requires experience and a cool clear head. If you don't match that discription, stick to lamp oil, but don't get complacent. Plus I don't like the idea of putting out your lit poi by dunking them in lampoil or kero. Smouldering or hot is a little better, but I just let them cool down before there near any fuel.
Oh and Sick pup, I don't think Indigo spins anymore. He used to be the best, but faded away with a bullhorn.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
On another note, I'm not convinced that whitegas is cheaper by the minute. It tends to burn quickly so you'll need to redunk and light again soon anyway. You get much more burn time with lamp oil.
But that's just conjecture.
On another note, I'm not convinced that whitegas is cheaper by the minute. It tends to burn quickly so you'll need to redunk and light again soon anyway. You get much more burn time with lamp oil.
But that's just conjecture.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
redunk and light again soon anyway?
How many times do you typically burn each night? I use mostly white gas for various reasons (i spin frequently on a wooden stage where lamp oil makes it WAY too slippery). I consider 1 burn, 1 burn, no matter what fuel I'm using. I'm going to spin the same amount of times each night regardless of whether I'm using lamp oil or white gas. I don't have the need to redunk more often because I use white gas. I haven't seen any of the people I spin with redunk more often because of white gas either.
Also, one thing I make certain any new person knows is that you DO NOT redunk your smoldering wicks in the fuel bucket. There is no reason to do so, and I let them know it can ignite the bucket, although I have never seen that happen. If I am organizing the event, I watch the new people just to make sure they aren't even tempted to do so.
redunk and light again soon anyway?
How many times do you typically burn each night? I use mostly white gas for various reasons (i spin frequently on a wooden stage where lamp oil makes it WAY too slippery). I consider 1 burn, 1 burn, no matter what fuel I'm using. I'm going to spin the same amount of times each night regardless of whether I'm using lamp oil or white gas. I don't have the need to redunk more often because I use white gas. I haven't seen any of the people I spin with redunk more often because of white gas either.
Also, one thing I make certain any new person knows is that you DO NOT redunk your smoldering wicks in the fuel bucket. There is no reason to do so, and I let them know it can ignite the bucket, although I have never seen that happen. If I am organizing the event, I watch the new people just to make sure they aren't even tempted to do so.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
as far as i'm concerned, i will never use whitegas or coleman's fuel (see the irony there?).
coloured flames are the only reason i would consider using anything that volatile.
there are lots of obvious disadvantages that using whitegas to spin fire has that nyc listed (plus a couple of mine):
whitegas IS more volitile than lamp oil (i.e. low flashpoint, easily ignitable vapours).
whitegas DOES transfer to skin/clothing.
whitegas WILL ignite and burn without the presence of a flame if it is hot enough.
whitegas WILL burn on skin, lamp oil will not.
spilled whitegas WILL spread and burn on pavement, lamp oil will not.
i can only see two advantages over kero/paraffin (which is what i use most often):
1. it might be cheaper.
2. it has less fumes/soot.
as far as i can see, switching to a cleaner fuel like shellsol d60 solves both of these problems without any of the added risk that whitegas introduces.
i have enquired with shell as to uk suppliers of shellsol d60 - i found some suppliers but with one of them the minimum order was 5 tonnes so i thought i'd look elsewhere...!
cole. x
as far as i'm concerned, i will never use whitegas or coleman's fuel (see the irony there?).
coloured flames are the only reason i would consider using anything that volatile.
there are lots of obvious disadvantages that using whitegas to spin fire has that nyc listed (plus a couple of mine):
whitegas IS more volitile than lamp oil (i.e. low flashpoint, easily ignitable vapours).
whitegas DOES transfer to skin/clothing.
whitegas WILL ignite and burn without the presence of a flame if it is hot enough.
whitegas WILL burn on skin, lamp oil will not.
spilled whitegas WILL spread and burn on pavement, lamp oil will not.
i can only see two advantages over kero/paraffin (which is what i use most often):
1. it might be cheaper.
2. it has less fumes/soot.
as far as i can see, switching to a cleaner fuel like shellsol d60 solves both of these problems without any of the added risk that whitegas introduces.
i have enquired with shell as to uk suppliers of shellsol d60 - i found some suppliers but with one of them the minimum order was 5 tonnes so i thought i'd look elsewhere...!
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
As I see it, the main reasons that people use white gas are
1. it lights easier that kero/peraffin in the cold
2. less fumes/smelliness
3. is more practical indoors (for the reasons stated in 2)
4. enables transfers
5. cheaper?
If we can find ways to reproduce those benefits using kero, then that would seem to be a good way to encourage people to use it instead, and therefore be safer.
1 has been covered, if you ensure that your wicks have frayed bits, then your lighting up problems with kero/paraffin are a thing of the past.
2 & 3 I can't currently see a way around, can anyone else?
4 I've never used white gas, so i don't know if this will work, but, what about using paraffin for your wicks, and, prior to the performance, preparing a small squeezy container of white gas which can be applied to your hand, enabling a flame to be transferred from one wick to the other.
Also prior to the performance, you light the wicks and let them burn to get hot, then extinguish using a damp clothe, to ensure that it lights from the transfer.
5. I would imagine this is regional, where I am paraffin works out to be the cheapest fuel. Also, fuel is cheap enough that, for most people, they should just get the best and safest fuel, even if it does cost a bit more.
As I see it, the main reasons that people use white gas are
1. it lights easier that kero/peraffin in the cold
2. less fumes/smelliness
3. is more practical indoors (for the reasons stated in 2)
4. enables transfers
5. cheaper?
If we can find ways to reproduce those benefits using kero, then that would seem to be a good way to encourage people to use it instead, and therefore be safer.
1 has been covered, if you ensure that your wicks have frayed bits, then your lighting up problems with kero/paraffin are a thing of the past.
2 & 3 I can't currently see a way around, can anyone else?
4 I've never used white gas, so i don't know if this will work, but, what about using paraffin for your wicks, and, prior to the performance, preparing a small squeezy container of white gas which can be applied to your hand, enabling a flame to be transferred from one wick to the other.
Also prior to the performance, you light the wicks and let them burn to get hot, then extinguish using a damp clothe, to ensure that it lights from the transfer.
5. I would imagine this is regional, where I am paraffin works out to be the cheapest fuel. Also, fuel is cheap enough that, for most people, they should just get the best and safest fuel, even if it does cost a bit more.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
number 3 is skewed - how is it ever a better idea to use a fuel that produces ignitable vapours at room temperature indoors!?
thats a disaster waiting to happen...
lamp oil has no smell (and can even smell of flowers or lemons if you buy the purfumed stuff).
as i said, i reckon both 2 & 3 can be solved simply by switching to a far cleaner-burning fuel.
i.e. lamp oil or a shellsol typoe fuel.
additionally, i think frayed wicks are a bad thing, especially for performers.
i've often seen little bits of burning wick fly off of frayed ends - especially during staff burnoffs or poi tangles/wraps.
sealed wicks (to actually prevent fraying) in combination with a windproof lighter (which will easily light any fuel) is a better solution to the ignition difficulty problem imho.
cole. x
number 3 is skewed - how is it ever a better idea to use a fuel that produces ignitable vapours at room temperature indoors!?
thats a disaster waiting to happen...
lamp oil has no smell (and can even smell of flowers or lemons if you buy the purfumed stuff).
as i said, i reckon both 2 & 3 can be solved simply by switching to a far cleaner-burning fuel.
i.e. lamp oil or a shellsol typoe fuel.
additionally, i think frayed wicks are a bad thing, especially for performers.
i've often seen little bits of burning wick fly off of frayed ends - especially during staff burnoffs or poi tangles/wraps.
sealed wicks (to actually prevent fraying) in combination with a windproof lighter (which will easily light any fuel) is a better solution to the ignition difficulty problem imho.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I do hope you're not suggesting that serious, debilitating accidents don't happen to highly experienced, sensible and well equipped people.
And I've never seen a fuel dump fire with lamp oil.
It seems access to fuels is a major factor. I wouldn't know where to get Coleman's or white gas from in the UK, but I know you can buy 4 litre tubs of Kerosene/Paraffin from petrol stations country wide and fill up drums dirt cheap from some rural petrol stations. Seems in the states it's the other way round.
Written by: Cody
Using white gass requires experience and a cool clear head. If you don't match that discription, stick to lamp oil, but don't get complacent.
I do hope you're not suggesting that serious, debilitating accidents don't happen to highly experienced, sensible and well equipped people.
And I've never seen a fuel dump fire with lamp oil.
It seems access to fuels is a major factor. I wouldn't know where to get Coleman's or white gas from in the UK, but I know you can buy 4 litre tubs of Kerosene/Paraffin from petrol stations country wide and fill up drums dirt cheap from some rural petrol stations. Seems in the states it's the other way round.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Yesterday, I spent about an hour trying to source Shellsol D60, after phoning all over the country with no success I've had to resort to email but I fear that this being Canada, a response will take days and I may find myself in the position of having to order a tanker truck load. Anybody want to go in on some?
Until I can find a suitable source of Shellsol, I'm going to continue using Colemans because it's the best fuel I've ever burned with. I'm well aware of the risks and I'm more than willing to exercise the extra caution needed to stay reasonably safe with this stuff. It's a simple matter of being aware of not spinning off onto your clothing, and paying attention to the condition of your wicks when you go to redunk them, and as to fuel bucket spills,,,,well if it happens, just stand there and guard the spill until it evaporates, it doesn't take long.
Ironically the only fuel dump fire I've seen has been lamp oil, but that was in Thailand, where extinguishing wicks in a 20 litre bucket of lamp oil is the norm. We actually lit our fuel bucket on fire once,,,on purpose, just to see what would happen, it didn't explode like some people seem to imagine it might, it just burst into flames, not very dramatically I might add, however I wouldn't want to be crouched down watching my wicks submerge into the fuel when it happened. As to transferring to clothing, I've never seen an incident that couldn't be extinguished by simply patting the flame out.
To use Colemans indoors obviously you'd fuel up and spin off outside and then bring your wicks indoors although I've never had the pleasure of spinning fire indoors.
I don't care about the cost, after all how much do you spend during an evening of fire spinning when compared to an evening in your local pub,,,a lot less right,? I'm after the quality but if you've never spun with Colemans then obviously, you can't know WHY so many of us swear by it. Colemans is available in the U.K. I've seen it advertised on websites, it's not cheap though.
I'm well aware of the newbie issues, but the added complications of using Colemans are well spelled out in the fuel article on this site, and peppered in various threads throughout HOP, if somebody can't be bothered to do the research before lighting up, that's their problem. We are talking about PLAYING with fire here, for fun, (and profit )aren't we?
I don't want to see this stuff cast in the role of being the demon fuel when all it takes is a little awareness to have a sucessful and enjoyable evening spinning with this stuff
Yesterday, I spent about an hour trying to source Shellsol D60, after phoning all over the country with no success I've had to resort to email but I fear that this being Canada, a response will take days and I may find myself in the position of having to order a tanker truck load. Anybody want to go in on some?
Until I can find a suitable source of Shellsol, I'm going to continue using Colemans because it's the best fuel I've ever burned with. I'm well aware of the risks and I'm more than willing to exercise the extra caution needed to stay reasonably safe with this stuff. It's a simple matter of being aware of not spinning off onto your clothing, and paying attention to the condition of your wicks when you go to redunk them, and as to fuel bucket spills,,,,well if it happens, just stand there and guard the spill until it evaporates, it doesn't take long.
Ironically the only fuel dump fire I've seen has been lamp oil, but that was in Thailand, where extinguishing wicks in a 20 litre bucket of lamp oil is the norm. We actually lit our fuel bucket on fire once,,,on purpose, just to see what would happen, it didn't explode like some people seem to imagine it might, it just burst into flames, not very dramatically I might add, however I wouldn't want to be crouched down watching my wicks submerge into the fuel when it happened. As to transferring to clothing, I've never seen an incident that couldn't be extinguished by simply patting the flame out.
To use Colemans indoors obviously you'd fuel up and spin off outside and then bring your wicks indoors although I've never had the pleasure of spinning fire indoors.
I don't care about the cost, after all how much do you spend during an evening of fire spinning when compared to an evening in your local pub,,,a lot less right,? I'm after the quality but if you've never spun with Colemans then obviously, you can't know WHY so many of us swear by it. Colemans is available in the U.K. I've seen it advertised on websites, it's not cheap though.
I'm well aware of the newbie issues, but the added complications of using Colemans are well spelled out in the fuel article on this site, and peppered in various threads throughout HOP, if somebody can't be bothered to do the research before lighting up, that's their problem. We are talking about PLAYING with fire here, for fun, (and profit )aren't we?
I don't want to see this stuff cast in the role of being the demon fuel when all it takes is a little awareness to have a sucessful and enjoyable evening spinning with this stuff
GOLD Member
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posted:
Personally, I only use white gas as a last resort. It's actually more expensive in the stores near me. Kero is $2.19 a gallon and whitegas is $3.56 for a little less then a gallon. I also find it a real pain to do wraps with whitegas. Since I will do alot of consecutive wraps while spinning fire (similar to glowsticking) kero is the way to go for me. I tried doing these wraps with white gas once and I had to have my arms patted out. This was even late in the burn so most of the excess fuel was burnt up and still I almost had a serious problem. White gas' benefits just do not outweigh the dangers of using it, for me. I also can't get it after 11 o'clock because thats when the all-mighty Wal-Mart closes, where kerosene is available 24/7.
Plus I have a fun game with the night clerk at the gas station I get kero from. I'll come in withn a handful of change and count it out on the counter and ask for that much kerosene. Sometimes it's a few dollars somtimes it's 73 cents. She even asks me if I need any kerosene when I go in there now. The best part is I still havn't told her why I need kerosene every few nights. I wonder if I should ever tell her or just let her keep wondering what this weird guy does with all this kero.
Personally, I only use white gas as a last resort. It's actually more expensive in the stores near me. Kero is $2.19 a gallon and whitegas is $3.56 for a little less then a gallon. I also find it a real pain to do wraps with whitegas. Since I will do alot of consecutive wraps while spinning fire (similar to glowsticking) kero is the way to go for me. I tried doing these wraps with white gas once and I had to have my arms patted out. This was even late in the burn so most of the excess fuel was burnt up and still I almost had a serious problem. White gas' benefits just do not outweigh the dangers of using it, for me. I also can't get it after 11 o'clock because thats when the all-mighty Wal-Mart closes, where kerosene is available 24/7.
Plus I have a fun game with the night clerk at the gas station I get kero from. I'll come in withn a handful of change and count it out on the counter and ask for that much kerosene. Sometimes it's a few dollars somtimes it's 73 cents. She even asks me if I need any kerosene when I go in there now. The best part is I still havn't told her why I need kerosene every few nights. I wonder if I should ever tell her or just let her keep wondering what this weird guy does with all this kero.
Peace, Love, Circles
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Dom, don't take me out of context, that statement was ment for the newbies, hence the quote above that statement you decided not to include.
NYC, out of fainress why don't you tell us what the accidents are. If I the yin to your yang is getting picked appart you should be too.
What we have here is two differnent cultures that may never understand each other. Many of you are poi people who spin fire, whereas I am a fire person who spins poi, if that makes any sence. And I have spun with kero, lamp oil and white gass, unlike many who oppose white gass having never even used it.
Darn I wasn't going to get confrintational untill I was quoted out of context.
Flame on I guess.
Written by:
Written by: Cody
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using white gass requires experience and a cool clear head. If you don't match that discription, stick to lamp oil, but don't get complacent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do hope you're not suggesting that serious, debilitating accidents don't happen to highly experienced, sensible and well equipped people.
Dom, don't take me out of context, that statement was ment for the newbies, hence the quote above that statement you decided not to include.
NYC, out of fainress why don't you tell us what the accidents are. If I the yin to your yang is getting picked appart you should be too.
What we have here is two differnent cultures that may never understand each other. Many of you are poi people who spin fire, whereas I am a fire person who spins poi, if that makes any sence. And I have spun with kero, lamp oil and white gass, unlike many who oppose white gass having never even used it.
Darn I wasn't going to get confrintational untill I was quoted out of context.
Flame on I guess.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I have no idea what that means.
I've seen and heard of many different whitegas accidents.
I've seen clothing catch fire from just a simple bump of the poi several times (which wouldn't have happened with lamp oil.)
I've seen handles catch fire and severely burn hands (which was the most recent injury.)
I've seen fuel dumps kicked over and ignited (which wouldn't have happened with lamp oil.)
I've seen fingers lit (which can't happen with lamp oil.)
I've seen faces lit (which can't happen with lamp oil.)
I've seen stages lit (which can't happen with lamp oil.)
I've seen awnings lit (which wouldn't have happened as easily with lamp oil.)
I've heard of handcuffs locking (which would have still injured a lamp oil spinner but not as much as it's not as hot and would not have spread.)
I've stopped MANY close calls like a dumbass girl puting a lighter in a tub of whitegas 'because she wanted to see what was inside'.
Everything up there could have been prevented in several ways. The easiest, in my opinion, would be to simply use lamp oil instead of whitegas.
A safety is a safety. Either they're good or their not. It's not like you can say "Oh we use EXTRAGOOD safeties because we use whitegas."
I think that all usafe actions are essentially multiplied by each other.
If you're using whitegas, you're increasing that factor and better hope that all of your other factors hold safe.
For example, let's say the odds of some drunken psycho kicking over your fuel dump is 0.1% ... and the odds of someone getting burned once a whitegas fuel dump is kicked over is 5%.
The odds of someone getting burned by a kicked bucket:
If you used whitegas: 0.005%
If you used lamp oil: 0%
Now compute that for every possible whitegas accident.
*I* don't see any reason why you'd want ANY increase in risk WITHOUT ANY NOTICABLE BENEFIT.
(The second part of the sentence being the most important, henseforth the caps.)
If I had to put a number on it, I'd say that burning with whitegas is about 10 times more dangerous than burning with lamp oil. My recent injury statistics are pretty consistant with that. As are the number of times I have had to act as a safety a whitegas spinner in comparison with a lamp oil spinner.
Cody, I'm not attacking you (though others may be)... If you're using good safety precautions, you should be applauded. I just think you're very high safety precautions could be greatly amplified if you switched to lamp oil.
Written by: Cody
If I the yin to your yang is getting picked appart you should be too.
I have no idea what that means.
I've seen and heard of many different whitegas accidents.
I've seen clothing catch fire from just a simple bump of the poi several times (which wouldn't have happened with lamp oil.)
I've seen handles catch fire and severely burn hands (which was the most recent injury.)
I've seen fuel dumps kicked over and ignited (which wouldn't have happened with lamp oil.)
I've seen fingers lit (which can't happen with lamp oil.)
I've seen faces lit (which can't happen with lamp oil.)
I've seen stages lit (which can't happen with lamp oil.)
I've seen awnings lit (which wouldn't have happened as easily with lamp oil.)
I've heard of handcuffs locking (which would have still injured a lamp oil spinner but not as much as it's not as hot and would not have spread.)
I've stopped MANY close calls like a dumbass girl puting a lighter in a tub of whitegas 'because she wanted to see what was inside'.
Everything up there could have been prevented in several ways. The easiest, in my opinion, would be to simply use lamp oil instead of whitegas.
A safety is a safety. Either they're good or their not. It's not like you can say "Oh we use EXTRAGOOD safeties because we use whitegas."
I think that all usafe actions are essentially multiplied by each other.
If you're using whitegas, you're increasing that factor and better hope that all of your other factors hold safe.
For example, let's say the odds of some drunken psycho kicking over your fuel dump is 0.1% ... and the odds of someone getting burned once a whitegas fuel dump is kicked over is 5%.
The odds of someone getting burned by a kicked bucket:
If you used whitegas: 0.005%
If you used lamp oil: 0%
Now compute that for every possible whitegas accident.
*I* don't see any reason why you'd want ANY increase in risk WITHOUT ANY NOTICABLE BENEFIT.
(The second part of the sentence being the most important, henseforth the caps.)
If I had to put a number on it, I'd say that burning with whitegas is about 10 times more dangerous than burning with lamp oil. My recent injury statistics are pretty consistant with that. As are the number of times I have had to act as a safety a whitegas spinner in comparison with a lamp oil spinner.
Cody, I'm not attacking you (though others may be)... If you're using good safety precautions, you should be applauded. I just think you're very high safety precautions could be greatly amplified if you switched to lamp oil.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
I tried to use yin and yang instead of arch nemesis, you and I usually end up on opposite sides of a debate.
I can only reply by referencing the opposite culture I discribed earlier. Different points of view.
As far as no noticable difference, take a look in my gallery. That form of extreme fire art requires all the attributes of white gass, but that's just us.
I agree that lampoil or Kerosine is safer, and that everyone should use it, but I don't. Please don't hate me for it.
Plus I can take my wicks on a plane because they don't stink.
I tried to use yin and yang instead of arch nemesis, you and I usually end up on opposite sides of a debate.
I can only reply by referencing the opposite culture I discribed earlier. Different points of view.
As far as no noticable difference, take a look in my gallery. That form of extreme fire art requires all the attributes of white gass, but that's just us.
I agree that lampoil or Kerosine is safer, and that everyone should use it, but I don't. Please don't hate me for it.
Plus I can take my wicks on a plane because they don't stink.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Please don't take this as trying to be rude, but I can't see anything in your gallery or homepage that needs to use white gas, unless the cool flamethrower things use them.
Any chance of a more direct link or two?
Written by: Cody
As far as no noticable difference, take a look in my gallery. That form of extreme fire art requires all the attributes of white gass, but that's just us.
Please don't take this as trying to be rude, but I can't see anything in your gallery or homepage that needs to use white gas, unless the cool flamethrower things use them.
Any chance of a more direct link or two?
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Link
This is a sample of the fire props we use, yes that's all wicking. For fire props of that size to be practical we need the instant light factor of white gass. With that much wick, white gass gives the perfect burn time, with lamp oil or kero we would be burning for 15 minutes which is not ptractical for the effect were looking for.
Flame thrower
The flame thrower thing is pure propane.
4"
My staple poi are the 4" cathedreals (sceond from right) with white gass I get a nice 5 minute burn with big flames.
I've been using white gass for seven years now, I like it and I understand it's properties. We perform indoors often and the smoke from lamp oil would cause an evacuation, whereas whitegass burns clean. Dip and spinn off outside then perform indoors.
Link
This is a sample of the fire props we use, yes that's all wicking. For fire props of that size to be practical we need the instant light factor of white gass. With that much wick, white gass gives the perfect burn time, with lamp oil or kero we would be burning for 15 minutes which is not ptractical for the effect were looking for.
Flame thrower
The flame thrower thing is pure propane.
4"
My staple poi are the 4" cathedreals (sceond from right) with white gass I get a nice 5 minute burn with big flames.
I've been using white gass for seven years now, I like it and I understand it's properties. We perform indoors often and the smoke from lamp oil would cause an evacuation, whereas whitegass burns clean. Dip and spinn off outside then perform indoors.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
member
99 posts
Location: west coast
99 posts
Location: west coast
Posted:
Stout, If you track down the new fuel I will gladly buy some of your "tanker" from you, and can probably line up some others too... ;-) be in touch,
smiles,
Andrea
Stout, If you track down the new fuel I will gladly buy some of your "tanker" from you, and can probably line up some others too... ;-) be in touch,
smiles,
Andrea
wherever you go, there you are
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
Nope, not Indigo.
Written by: SickpuPpy
That one person's name wouldn't happen to be Indigo would it?
Nope, not Indigo.
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
That there is the only reason I reckon you're using white gas - it's what you're used to, which is a fair reason.
Everything else I think could be worked around with small design or practise changes - if you don't want a huge burn time then make the wick thinner for the same surface area or don't dip for so long for example.
*shrugs* up to you really in the end though.
I was going to say something about making sure that people don't get the wrong impression from you and start using white gas straight off, then I remembered this...
All is good
Written by: Cody
*snip*
I've been using white gass for seven years now, *snip*
That there is the only reason I reckon you're using white gas - it's what you're used to, which is a fair reason.
Everything else I think could be worked around with small design or practise changes - if you don't want a huge burn time then make the wick thinner for the same surface area or don't dip for so long for example.
*shrugs* up to you really in the end though.
I was going to say something about making sure that people don't get the wrong impression from you and start using white gas straight off, then I remembered this...
Written by: Cody
All my newbies use lampoil
All is good
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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