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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > how many poi moves are there?

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bing!
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

bing!

i beat my inner child
Location: manchester UK

Total posts: 184
Posted:before you start shouting at me and saying i should have searched i did do a search and i couldnt find anything! but if there is a thread like this around please tell the mod to delete this one and pm me the url to it smile oh and who invented the word durbs ... i assume its not a real word

ok i was wondering while doing poi today at how many moves there are. i counted up how many i could do and i came up with about 20(missing out the very basics). i know theres a lot more that i cant do but has anyone actually compiled a list?

i know there are a lot of websites with gif's detailing different moves ive found them to only teach the basics or they dont have a great selection of alternative moves such as all the wraps possibly dreamt of or anything teaching glowstick techniques. (ive been watchin some of the glowsticking vids on hop and theyre all waaaaaay to fast to learn what to do)

well if this gets deleted then its been a wasted 5 minutes but if not then hurrah!
good day!


--the spark what lit the flame which started the fire that burned forever--

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Written by:
when i spin im thinking "3beat, 5 beat, backwards 5 beat, windmill etc etc" so these are all clearly defined moves and i dont really think about the transitions between them being a move as such.


There is another level of progression to this wherein you dont think about the moves anymore either. YOU simply move and the poi are only an extension of yourself. This is the line that, when crossed, you learn "there are no moves"


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:BANG!

Icon got it right there.

smile


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bing!
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

bing!

i beat my inner child
Location: manchester UK

Total posts: 184
Posted:hmmm ... well i havent got there yet! haha guess im just being new
aaaanyways jus checked out the site and i do have to apologise for not registering and exploring it, theres a hell of a lot of stuff
i still beieve that if you had enough time you could rattle out all the moves that have been done. but as i now realise that is just not the point of poi. think i may have to get my lazy [censored] down to a meet and learn there!


--the spark what lit the flame which started the fire that burned forever--

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:i found there was a definite area in between thinking about every single move and thinking ' there are no moves' and that was to think about moves within a family, practice all your weaves say, and transition between them. Practice all your butterflies and learn to transition between them. Then you can just think weaves, weaves weaves weaves weaves (transitioning within the family) buterfly buterfly buterfly buterfly (transitioning within that family) so you are only concentrating on the transitions BETWEEN FAMILIES.

When dancing to music i tend to do weaves for kinda rolling beats, and butterflys for more defined beats (then of course you can play with split time butterflies and in time weaves to mix it all up) and play around with dropping the transitions in bang on the beat drop.

anyway, no offense taken. Actually i just got the wikipoidia back online and spiralx has already started linking to the vids lol

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:I dont think I ever hit that part personally. Considering everything that can be done with chase can be done with butterflies, its all the same to me.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Spacecow00x
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Spacecow00x

Member
Location: Ft. Myers, Florida, USA

Total posts: 170
Posted:4598382910930032932.67 exactly, went through all of them


i think the list is endless as there are so many alterations to moves that you can do


You've got the wings of a fallen angel
You offer peace if they praise your name
You live your life taking everything you can get
Look down, time to fly!

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tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:three beat isn't just a combination of two two beats, it's one part of one two beat and the same part of the other... the second one is a wall plane weave if you go back to the start and repeat it. exactly where to stop separating is interesting, for instance, i can do a move that goes through all the 1 and 0 transitions (the ones you use to do a two beat weave) clockwise and anticlockwise and behind the back via reels without doing one twice before repeating. in the same way a three beat isn't a pair of two beats, this can't be broken down further except by listing each transition in order and where they happen. in total it has 60 odd beats (i think 68 but i'm never quite sure i count them all... (or indeed do it right every time)) , but i can't think of a name for it... what do you call a pair of btb utl 1 transition separations joined by a btb 1,1? i could write it as btb1, utl s1, btb1, utl s1 and if you knew the notation you could do it, and you can't expand that sequence of transitions to any other moves. it looks like a pair of contortionist crotch thru wraps in a three beat btb weave.
it should be possible to write out every possible sequence of transitions that dosn't repeat or break down into smaller chunks, and count them, and while it would be a huge number it probably wouldn't be infinite as there is a limit to what the human body can do before you have make parts of it go through other parts...

--ben


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: icon
There is another level of progression to this wherein you dont think about the moves anymore either. YOU simply move and the poi are only an extension of yourself. This is the line that, when crossed, you learn "there are no moves"



I don't buy into that. If I'm watching you do a set, and you believe you are just moving and you have learned "there are no moves"... but I as a spectator, am watching it and in my head, dividing it up into 'moves'... are you doing moves or not?

I acknowledge that the concept of 'moves' is an oversimplification and a model, but I don't think that model ever goes away. You can disguise them as much as you want, but to me, there will always be moves.

And I learned a fantastic phrase at Glowsticking.com... it's the phrase "Post a video!"...

So post a video of someone not doing moves and I'll tell you what moves they're doing. ubbangel


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:my 2 cents:



I think a good analogy for what I feel about moves/poi etc is the learning of a language. For example:



poi = poetry

combos = paragraphs/verses

moves = sentences

move elements = words

transitions = letters



Sentences and paragraphs are a great way to learn a language. They teach the rules of grammar, and the types of words etc etc, as well as giving an understanding of the 'idea' of language. They also build a working vocabulary.



But when a language is truly learned, you no longer need to rely on memorized sentences or structures. You just use your vocabulary to write stories and poetry.



You use your favourite words (move elements) to write whatever you like, and you can even write your own words using letters (transitions) ie. 'artistic licence'.



Of course, it is always good to throw in a nice quote (move or combo) because "someone else will have already said what you want to say best" - American History X. Also a sentence or verse can be well rehearsed so it just "rolls off the toungue"



NYC: "So post a video of someone not doing moves and I'll tell you what moves they're doing."



you can analize poetry and describe each sentence and verse with an umbrella term... but imo that doesn't describe the verse fully - a lot is lost in the translation from poetry to sentences.



Jo.

EDITED_BY: Jo (1116593281)


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I like the poetry analogy. what a great breakdown.

I've never been a fan of the "there are no moves" philosophy, I like the concept of flow much better. We need the idea of moves to communicate, and to teach, how someone puts the "moves" together into something larger is up to the individual. What kind of poem do you want to write? newbies may do haiku. whereas an experienced spinner may write an epic. We're all using the same language.

Half of the five weave is just that, half of the five beat weave, just because it doesn't have it's own name doesn't mean it's disqualified as a "move"


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: NYC


I don't buy into that. If I'm watching you do a set, and you believe you are just moving and you have learned "there are no moves"... but I as a spectator, am watching it and in my head, dividing it up into 'moves'... are you doing moves or not?




but i think the point is here, you will watch it and divide it up into moves and someone else will watch it and break it up into entirely different moves depending on how they look at poi. the whole set could indeed be seen as one 'move'. one movement. and the spinner may not be thinking about the moves at all, they are just moving.

and tenticle - i think when you say there is a finite number of moves (confused) you are assuming that your not letting go of the poi and doing other weird stuff like that.


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Mr_Chutney
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire, England (UK)

Total posts: 1711
Posted:Slightly offtopic

Sorry to be a little pedantic but the term 'infinite' is often misused. There could well be a billion billion billion concivable permutations for poi positioning and movement, but that would be nothing compared to the realm of infinity- just because we cannot concieve of the quantity does not make it infinite, and logically infinite is complete, something I don't think poi could ever be termed as.

Chutney smile


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I agree - there's only a finite possible number of ways of spinning due to your body being there, gravity and so on. Even taking out minute differences (e.g. throwing 1m vs. 1.00001m) it still does leave an awful lot though.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:surely it depends how many arcs you are prepared to split a circle into?

or probably more imporantly.. how many its useful to. confused


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:obviously the number of possible permutations is always going to be finite.

but add in the style factor and it becomes infinite (unless you want to morbidly claim that one day there will be an end to spinning and poi spinners).

like oli says the 'number of moves' very much depends on how you want to measure variation.

if you consider one person's butterfly to be different to the next, (which i think does matter in poi otherwise we would never bother to d/l videos of people spinning and rather only ever watch videos that show new ideas), then the number of moves becomes of little importance - you could pick 10 moves and have equally as many different variations for each as you can find different spinners.

poi is not just about where the poi go, its about what you do with your body while they are going there.

thinking in sections of moves and their combinations is something i still do when i spin, but the sequence of moves helps to mould my style.
you could quite easily break down the spiining of any spinner to a collection of moves you think in terms of but most times that wouldn't give you much idea of how that person arranges their combinations in the way that they do - that all comes down to how they think of poi and if they are not aware of 'moves' while they spin then for as long as they are spinning 'there are no moves' smile

or more simply (as drew might say):


dance tongue


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Anything more than 16 strikes me as being a bit excessive wink

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Written by:
And I learned a fantastic phrase at Glowsticking.com... it's the phrase "Post a video!"...

So post a video of someone not doing moves and I'll tell you what moves they're doing.


Give it your best shot NYC


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I see corkscrews, turning corkscrews, weaves, windmills, butterflies, lock-outs and other stuff there. And lots of plane breaking ubblol

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:what about all the bits in between the moves...?





cole. x



p.s. i haven't seen it yet tongue


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: spiralx

And lots of plane breaking



one way to break your plane


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:another way


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:oooooooow smile

POI THEO(R)IST

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tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:possibly you could say that there are a countable infinity of moves, that is if you had infinite time you could list them all, because poi moves are defined by the limits you place on the system. any system with discrete steps and defined limits can have every possible permutation listed.
and i agree with jo, who said what i managed to not type by going off to make dinner, moves are the language of poi, and saying 'there are no moves' stops you from communicating poi in a meaningful way...
and oli, as far as i'm concerned it's only necessary to split a circle into two arcs, the arc closest to you and the arc farthest away, as you look at the move.

--ben


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:what happens if you break your planes though?

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:depends exactly what you mean by 'break your planes', but each circle has a close side and a far side, and the interesting bits will happen in one of them. even boxes and trinity and atoms and stuff... if you can define the relationship between the planes, you can count them.



--ben


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Basic elements: Beat, Time, Plane, Direction, Placement.....
Anvanced: Family, Technique, Fundamentals
Ultimate: Dance, Rhythm, your own presentation smile

and many more,

light,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:tenticle: "i agree with jo, who said what i managed to not type by going off to make dinner, moves are the language of poi, and saying 'there are no moves' stops you from communicating poi in a meaningful way..."



I'm not sure your thoughts are totaly in line with mine there.



Moves are an essencial -part- of the language of poi imo.



nowadays though, between several websites, the moves have been well defined - especialy on |s|. That is why I disagree that "saying 'there are no moves' stops you from communicating poi in a meaningful way..." You can still comunicate with them, and learn them of course, you just don't need to think of them as 'moves' when spinning. Basically, I agree with what Richee and Spherculist were saying on that... You mainly spin in families using the fundamentals when you're 'dance' spinning.



Jo.


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:my family doesn't spin confused

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: ICoN

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />
And I learned a fantastic phrase at Glowsticking.com... it's the phrase "Post a video!"...

So post a video of someone not doing moves and I'll tell you what moves they're doing.


Give it your best shot NYC



Unfortunately, I don't even have a minute to do much of anything this week. My girlie's comin' into town and I'm crazy running around (I'm on dial up now so I can't view the vid.)

But kick me in a few weeks once my life has settled down and I'll make good on my promise.

I do agree with the sentiment that 'moves' and 'beats' and 'combos' are all most useful as a communication tool. For that reason alone, I believe strongly in 'moves'.

Also, in every other area of life, we artificially categorize things so that we may better understand them.

I teach "chemistry"....

"Well, why would you break it down into Chemistry? Isn't it just a subsection of 'Life'? And why not put particle physics in chemistry, or string theory?..."

Bah... I'm too tired right now.. somebody finish my point for me. You know where I'm going. The purpose of idealizing in science.... artificial boundaries ... subclasification of natural science theorised in the 1700s... Mary Shelly's Frankenstein... life and nonlife... yada yada yada...

Throw some usefulness of "neglecting friction" in physics. Closed system to limit variables...

That's a 'move' in a nutshell... no friction, in a box, as a model to communicate.

There... done... goodnight.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Wait... I forgot to say the word 'abstract'. And theoretical. No, just abstract. Theoretical is overused and I don't mean it. Just abstract. Idealized. Wait.. I said that one.

Damn it... I'm turning into a bad Beckett play.

Godot will come and save us all. If we just wait.

Surely he'll come tomorrow.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Page: 123

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