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Posted:before you start shouting at me and saying i should have searched i did do a search and i couldnt find anything! but if there is a thread like this around please tell the mod to delete this one and pm me the url to it 
oh and who invented the word durbs ... i assume its not a real word
ok i was wondering while doing poi today at how many moves there are. i counted up how many i could do and i came up with about 20(missing out the very basics). i know theres a lot more that i cant do but has anyone actually compiled a list?
i know there are a lot of websites with gif's detailing different moves ive found them to only teach the basics or they dont have a great selection of alternative moves such as all the wraps possibly dreamt of or anything teaching glowstick techniques. (ive been watchin some of the glowsticking vids on hop and theyre all waaaaaay to fast to learn what to do)
well if this gets deleted then its been a wasted 5 minutes but if not then hurrah!
good day!
oh and who invented the word durbs ... i assume its not a real wordok i was wondering while doing poi today at how many moves there are. i counted up how many i could do and i came up with about 20(missing out the very basics). i know theres a lot more that i cant do but has anyone actually compiled a list?
i know there are a lot of websites with gif's detailing different moves ive found them to only teach the basics or they dont have a great selection of alternative moves such as all the wraps possibly dreamt of or anything teaching glowstick techniques. (ive been watchin some of the glowsticking vids on hop and theyre all waaaaaay to fast to learn what to do)
well if this gets deleted then its been a wasted 5 minutes but if not then hurrah!
good day!
--the spark what lit the flame which started the fire that burned forever--
Delete Topic
Posted:Jo: you said moves are the language of poi, i said saying 'there are no moves' stops you communicating meaningfully... sorry, i should have written that sentence better.
you cant choreograph a routine by saying there are no moves, and you can't explain a routine to someone else, you can't introduce someone who's just got the basics to new ideas... fair enough, when you get good you don't think in terms of moves all the time, but you know the language well enough to be able to express what you're doing in terms of moves without actually spinning the poi. saying the language then dosn't exist is a false dichotomy, as it is still there and you're still using it. teaching people the same language ensures that when someone you've taught learns something new they can teach it to you in terms you understand. what you then do with that understanding, how you move yourself around with the move is where your style comes from, and in my opinion, the poetry...
--ben
you cant choreograph a routine by saying there are no moves, and you can't explain a routine to someone else, you can't introduce someone who's just got the basics to new ideas... fair enough, when you get good you don't think in terms of moves all the time, but you know the language well enough to be able to express what you're doing in terms of moves without actually spinning the poi. saying the language then dosn't exist is a false dichotomy, as it is still there and you're still using it. teaching people the same language ensures that when someone you've taught learns something new they can teach it to you in terms you understand. what you then do with that understanding, how you move yourself around with the move is where your style comes from, and in my opinion, the poetry...
--ben
Delete
Posted:tenticle: I said moves are an essencial part of the language of poi so I think we're basically agreeing, the 'there are no moves' thing was written in a thread focused on style - not communication or moves, and it has been misunderstood when put in the context of this thread.
"how you move yourself around with the move is where your style comes from, and in my opinion, the poetry..."
Yes I fully agree with that (if you mean how you move when you 'spin'). So saying 'there are no moves' when in the context of 'regenerating style' then, would be fair in your opinion?
Jo.
EDITED_BY: Jo (1116699005)
"how you move yourself around with the move is where your style comes from, and in my opinion, the poetry..."
Yes I fully agree with that (if you mean how you move when you 'spin'). So saying 'there are no moves' when in the context of 'regenerating style' then, would be fair in your opinion?
Jo.
EDITED_BY: Jo (1116699005)
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
DeleteGlåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001
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The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Total posts: 2523
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001
The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Total posts: 2523
Posted:like my hand slappin your booty
*SMACK*
*SMACK*
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Caben
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Location: Somewere way out there
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Taster of beer, drinker of wine and all around stumbler.
Location: Somewere way out there
Total posts: 238
Posted:Everyday someone, somewere does a veriation (wether on purpose or not) to a known move.....and just because they don't name it right away does not meen it isn't a new and valid move. And as for the skatebording analagy...well, just a few years ago people did not think you could skate on a half-pipe, so go figure...
A high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
a crowded elevator smells different to a midget
If you take me seriously you would be the only one
Posted:Written by: Glss
The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words.
you get my quote of the week
... shame its sunday so it only lasts for the next 30 mins
Written by: caben
a few years ago people did not think you could skate on a half-pipe, so go figure...
but theres actually a physical limit on how much you can spin on a skateboard, i.e how much power you give to the actual spin determines your spin rate. combine this with the maximum height you can get, you can find out the maximum number of turns someone can physically do. even a superhuman would never be able to gain enough speed, enough power to do, for exaple, a 36000degree spin on a skateboard as you may have to spin faster than the speed of light to actually achieve it. this is not the same as people saying you couldt skate a half pipe as 1) it had to be invented first and 2)its was never a physical impossibility
there now that being pedantic
1 thing about "there is no moves". isnt poi a form of dance, every dance has moves (ballet has erm ... twirly things) but ballet dancers work around the basic moves and add their own flare ... but there are moves. and yes i have watched a ballet, once, 5 years ago
good day
The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words.
you get my quote of the week
... shame its sunday so it only lasts for the next 30 minsWritten by: caben
a few years ago people did not think you could skate on a half-pipe, so go figure...
but theres actually a physical limit on how much you can spin on a skateboard, i.e how much power you give to the actual spin determines your spin rate. combine this with the maximum height you can get, you can find out the maximum number of turns someone can physically do. even a superhuman would never be able to gain enough speed, enough power to do, for exaple, a 36000degree spin on a skateboard as you may have to spin faster than the speed of light to actually achieve it. this is not the same as people saying you couldt skate a half pipe as 1) it had to be invented first and 2)its was never a physical impossibility
there now that being pedantic
1 thing about "there is no moves". isnt poi a form of dance, every dance has moves (ballet has erm ... twirly things) but ballet dancers work around the basic moves and add their own flare ... but there are moves. and yes i have watched a ballet, once, 5 years ago
good day
--the spark what lit the flame which started the fire that burned forever--
Delete
Posted:there is one move A to B :P its how you get there that counts :P
personally i think its a cyclic argument. you may as well ask how many tables are there? do you include anything you can put food on?
moves are an abstract way of defining certain groups of specific motions that create specific patterns
anyway back on topic id say there are more moves than you'll be able to learn any time soon :P
personally i think its a cyclic argument. you may as well ask how many tables are there? do you include anything you can put food on?
moves are an abstract way of defining certain groups of specific motions that create specific patterns
anyway back on topic id say there are more moves than you'll be able to learn any time soon :P
back
DeleteJauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Total posts: 3533
SILVER Member since Dec 2004
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Total posts: 3533
Posted:Written by: linden_rathen
personally i think its a cyclic argument. you may as well ask how many tables are there? do you include anything you can put food on?
There are no tables, it's all a matter of places to put food until it ends up where you want it.
personally i think its a cyclic argument. you may as well ask how many tables are there? do you include anything you can put food on?
There are no tables, it's all a matter of places to put food until it ends up where you want it.
-James
"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"
Posted:Written by: Glss
The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words.
Every type of learner learns differently. On a scale of 0-20 of "Auditory Learning" I am a 20/20. My brain is structured with the maximum amount of emphasis put on auditory words. I'd say I'm in the top 5% of that skew.
Now, look at the above sentence and tell me that the most effective way of teaching me is without words?
I just finished up another one of my education classes which focused on the biochemistry associated with learning.
Everyone is wired differently. Everyone has a different balance of chemicals in their brain. Everyone learns differently.
Some people benefit from altering their brain chemistry either legally (ritalin, adderal, wellbutrin etc....) or illegally.
Some, like me, were lucky enough to have a brain chemistry that seems to work pretty well on it's own.
Some people, like me, have over developed auditory processing center. It compensates for my lack of a strong visuallization. Right now, if I close my eyes, and you asked me to describe my mother, I'd have no idea what to say. I mean, white with dark hair and maybe a height, but there's no way that I could draw her. I certainly can't visualize her in my mind right now. I can describe her voice but have no idea what her nose looks like. Now some folks expect me to learn a poi move by watching and remembering what it looks like when you do it once. I can't even remember my mom who've I've seen more than anyone else, you really expect me to remember a poi move in a relevant way just by looking at it?
Over the past few years I've been intimidated by some of those that I respect in the poi world telling me the best way to learn. They've given advice like:
"Dude, you need to get stoned"...
No, I don't. My dopamine levels are fine the way they are. My brain works best on a glass of water and a bowl of rice. Maybe OTHERS benefit from altering their brain chemstry. I certainly know that many of my students have been saved by the altering of their brain chemistry (and others have been lost by it.)
"You need to just flow and move and let the poi guide you. Free you mind and you will learn."
Nope. Not me, I'm not a kinesthetic learner. Someone who uses movement to learn is using a different portion of their brain than someone who learns visually or auditorily. I do not learn best by moving my body. It's not how my brain is wired.
"The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words."
Nope. Not for me. I'm a 100% auditory learner. Everything I've ever learned in my life from driving a car to spinning poi to chemistry to how to throw a ball has been broken down in an auditory sense. Once something is LEARNED then it can be transfered into a subcontious 'muscle memory' but only after it has been actively learned.
Put a blindfold on me and tie my hands together and stick me in a chemistry lecture at UCLA and I'll do better if you let me see it and play with it and draw it with earplugs in.
At the same time, there are plenty of folks who say things like "It's impossible to learn a poi move just by reading about it" but I can. That's why I hang out here.
The biggest mistake most teachers will make... is to teach things the way that THEY learn best. You find teachers saying things like "I learned it by lecture, why should I have my children work in groups?" or "This is how I learned it, why aren't they understanding it?" We are always naturally bias towards teaching in the manner in which WE learn best rather than how THE STUDENT learns best.
There is no 'right way' to teach, there is no 'strongest form of communication', there is a no 'one size fits all' in any form of education. Including poi.
If you want to teach ME anything. Words will always be strongest.
The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words.
Every type of learner learns differently. On a scale of 0-20 of "Auditory Learning" I am a 20/20. My brain is structured with the maximum amount of emphasis put on auditory words. I'd say I'm in the top 5% of that skew.
Now, look at the above sentence and tell me that the most effective way of teaching me is without words?
I just finished up another one of my education classes which focused on the biochemistry associated with learning.
Everyone is wired differently. Everyone has a different balance of chemicals in their brain. Everyone learns differently.
Some people benefit from altering their brain chemistry either legally (ritalin, adderal, wellbutrin etc....) or illegally.
Some, like me, were lucky enough to have a brain chemistry that seems to work pretty well on it's own.
Some people, like me, have over developed auditory processing center. It compensates for my lack of a strong visuallization. Right now, if I close my eyes, and you asked me to describe my mother, I'd have no idea what to say. I mean, white with dark hair and maybe a height, but there's no way that I could draw her. I certainly can't visualize her in my mind right now. I can describe her voice but have no idea what her nose looks like. Now some folks expect me to learn a poi move by watching and remembering what it looks like when you do it once. I can't even remember my mom who've I've seen more than anyone else, you really expect me to remember a poi move in a relevant way just by looking at it?
Over the past few years I've been intimidated by some of those that I respect in the poi world telling me the best way to learn. They've given advice like:
"Dude, you need to get stoned"...
No, I don't. My dopamine levels are fine the way they are. My brain works best on a glass of water and a bowl of rice. Maybe OTHERS benefit from altering their brain chemstry. I certainly know that many of my students have been saved by the altering of their brain chemistry (and others have been lost by it.)
"You need to just flow and move and let the poi guide you. Free you mind and you will learn."
Nope. Not me, I'm not a kinesthetic learner. Someone who uses movement to learn is using a different portion of their brain than someone who learns visually or auditorily. I do not learn best by moving my body. It's not how my brain is wired.
"The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words."
Nope. Not for me. I'm a 100% auditory learner. Everything I've ever learned in my life from driving a car to spinning poi to chemistry to how to throw a ball has been broken down in an auditory sense. Once something is LEARNED then it can be transfered into a subcontious 'muscle memory' but only after it has been actively learned.
Put a blindfold on me and tie my hands together and stick me in a chemistry lecture at UCLA and I'll do better if you let me see it and play with it and draw it with earplugs in.
At the same time, there are plenty of folks who say things like "It's impossible to learn a poi move just by reading about it" but I can. That's why I hang out here.
The biggest mistake most teachers will make... is to teach things the way that THEY learn best. You find teachers saying things like "I learned it by lecture, why should I have my children work in groups?" or "This is how I learned it, why aren't they understanding it?" We are always naturally bias towards teaching in the manner in which WE learn best rather than how THE STUDENT learns best.
There is no 'right way' to teach, there is no 'strongest form of communication', there is a no 'one size fits all' in any form of education. Including poi.
If you want to teach ME anything. Words will always be strongest.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Caben
![Caben]()
Taster of beer, drinker of wine and all around stumbler.
Location: Somewere way out there
Total posts: 238
Taster of beer, drinker of wine and all around stumbler.
Location: Somewere way out there
Total posts: 238
Posted:Thanx bing!
Yes....that was pedantic.
If you want "its was never a physical impossibility" there are many examples of that comment being eaten by the speaker....breaking the sound barrier comes to mind. No the half pipe had not been invented...and maybe something will be invented in the future that would allow for a huge amount of spins. But hey...this isn't a pissing contest! You win.
Number of moves, hell 2.......spinning forwards and backwards the rest is just showing off.
Yes....that was pedantic.
If you want "its was never a physical impossibility" there are many examples of that comment being eaten by the speaker....breaking the sound barrier comes to mind. No the half pipe had not been invented...and maybe something will be invented in the future that would allow for a huge amount of spins. But hey...this isn't a pissing contest! You win.
Number of moves, hell 2.......spinning forwards and backwards the rest is just showing off.
A high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
a crowded elevator smells different to a midget
If you take me seriously you would be the only one
Posted:Written by: Caben
Number of moves, hell 2.......spinning forwards and backwards the rest is just showing off.
hahaha
Number of moves, hell 2.......spinning forwards and backwards the rest is just showing off.
hahaha --the spark what lit the flame which started the fire that burned forever--
DeletePosted:Written by: Glss
The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words.
The strongest form of communication on the internet, however, does.
Written by: Jo
the 'there are no moves' thing was written in a thread focused on style - not communication or moves, and it has been misunderstood when put in the context of this thread.
the 'there are no moves' thing started out as a paraphrase of a line from a slightly dodgy sci-fi film, and has been used out of context in every thread since.
Written by: Jo
saying 'there are no moves' when in the context of 'regenerating style' then, would be fair in your opinion?
no. there are moves, and you spin them in your style. the words are there, and the way you use them makes your poetry. in my opinion.
--ben
The strongest form of communication with poi, does not use words.
The strongest form of communication on the internet, however, does.
Written by: Jo
the 'there are no moves' thing was written in a thread focused on style - not communication or moves, and it has been misunderstood when put in the context of this thread.
the 'there are no moves' thing started out as a paraphrase of a line from a slightly dodgy sci-fi film, and has been used out of context in every thread since.
Written by: Jo
saying 'there are no moves' when in the context of 'regenerating style' then, would be fair in your opinion?
no. there are moves, and you spin them in your style. the words are there, and the way you use them makes your poetry. in my opinion.
--ben
Delete
Posted:
Glass > Truth. Its reeeeeal spinnig.
NYC > Teacher dont come if the follower isn ready.
Tenticle > There are moves, imagine Waave
There is thousand, milllllllllllllllllion of them
:R
Glass > Truth. Its reeeeeal spinnig.
NYC > Teacher dont come if the follower isn ready.
Tenticle > There are moves, imagine Waave
There is thousand, milllllllllllllllllion of them
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
DeletePosted:but sparkey whats a place? how many places are there :P
n i still think its a cyclic argument there are as many moves as you want to define :P if i you wanted to you could define ever micrometer of every possible arc on any plane of exsistance
or you could just call it the weave
n i still think its a cyclic argument there are as many moves as you want to define :P if i you wanted to you could define ever micrometer of every possible arc on any plane of exsistance
or you could just call it the weave
back
DeletePosted:linden_rathen: "i still think its a cyclic argument there are as many moves as you want to define :P"
I agree, that says it all really imo. If you break moves down far enough then the answer is 'infinite'. Maybe you'd struggle to define more once you got past a billion or so, but I still think you could always add more, and more - infinite is my answer (not forgetting 4 poi spinning, or 5, 6...), and that's before you take any account of the body movement which imo can also be considered a 'move' if you like.
However, I think only the most 'useful' moves need defining and learning - beyond that, there's no real point in defining the minute details in the variations imo, so my answer then would be 216,057
Jo.
I agree, that says it all really imo. If you break moves down far enough then the answer is 'infinite'. Maybe you'd struggle to define more once you got past a billion or so, but I still think you could always add more, and more - infinite is my answer (not forgetting 4 poi spinning, or 5, 6...), and that's before you take any account of the body movement which imo can also be considered a 'move' if you like.
However, I think only the most 'useful' moves need defining and learning - beyond that, there's no real point in defining the minute details in the variations imo, so my answer then would be 216,057
Jo.
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
DeletePosted:Written by: Richee
NYC > Teacher dont come if the follower isn ready.
Couldn't disagree more.
As a teacher it's my job to make the student ready. If they have not been adequitely prepared, it's my job to get them to that state. If they are not in the right mindset to learn, it is my job to get them there.
You can CHOOSE not to teach someone you do not feel is ready. You can chose not to teach anyone but cute girls in skirts if you want. But then you are opting not to fill the role of a 'teacher'. Of course, we all have a limit to how much we will teach. At some point, I'll say "Sorry, I can't teach you the weave right now, I want to sit down and watch the clouds blow by." But at that point, I cease to be a teacher.
But if you choose to be a teacher, it is both the teacher's responsibility as well as the student to give the student whatever background is needed.
If a student shows up, ready and willing to learn, they are making themselves vulnerable. By saying "You are not ready" you have failed as a teacher. You are saying "I am not able to get you to the level you need to be at." I have NO problem not teaching someone for a plethora of other reasons, I'll even take "You have bad breath" or 'I'm going to go hit on the girl in the cute skirt" as a reason not to teach someone.
Telling a student "You are not ready" is essentially saying "I am not a competent enough teacher to educate you at the point you are now."
I would never not teach someone because they 'aren't ready'. I would just back the truck up (as I call it) as far as I needed to give them the foundation.
I see no place for elitist teaching.
NYC > Teacher dont come if the follower isn ready.
Couldn't disagree more.
As a teacher it's my job to make the student ready. If they have not been adequitely prepared, it's my job to get them to that state. If they are not in the right mindset to learn, it is my job to get them there.
You can CHOOSE not to teach someone you do not feel is ready. You can chose not to teach anyone but cute girls in skirts if you want. But then you are opting not to fill the role of a 'teacher'. Of course, we all have a limit to how much we will teach. At some point, I'll say "Sorry, I can't teach you the weave right now, I want to sit down and watch the clouds blow by." But at that point, I cease to be a teacher.
But if you choose to be a teacher, it is both the teacher's responsibility as well as the student to give the student whatever background is needed.
If a student shows up, ready and willing to learn, they are making themselves vulnerable. By saying "You are not ready" you have failed as a teacher. You are saying "I am not able to get you to the level you need to be at." I have NO problem not teaching someone for a plethora of other reasons, I'll even take "You have bad breath" or 'I'm going to go hit on the girl in the cute skirt" as a reason not to teach someone.
Telling a student "You are not ready" is essentially saying "I am not a competent enough teacher to educate you at the point you are now."
I would never not teach someone because they 'aren't ready'. I would just back the truck up (as I call it) as far as I needed to give them the foundation.
I see no place for elitist teaching.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:Written by: linden_rathen
n i still think its a cyclic argument there are as many moves as you want to define :P if i you wanted to you could define ever micrometer of every possible arc on any plane of exsistance
or you could just call it the weave
'Want' has nothing to do with it, there are as many moves as are definable by the rules you use to define moves. You could define every second of arc through every move, but what's the point? There are fundamental things that happen in any move and if you are doing them, you are doing that move. There are lots of other things you can do in between the fundamental parts that don't change the move, and this is where style comes in. there are many places and ways to spin a 3bt weave, but (split time, same direction) if the poi spinning on the same side of your body as the arm that is holding it leads to the crossed side of your body, then the same thing happens on the other side at the first possible opportunity, you are doing a three beat weave. That's why we call it a three beat weave.
Pick a consistant way to define moves, and you can count them*. You can see where new things are possible, and get an idea of what they look like and what you have to do to do them without ever seeing anyone else do it. The more different patterns you try to do, the better your spinning gets, and when you come to dance, you dance how you wanna dance and there's always room for the poi and you don't whack yourself, cos wherever you are you've been there before...
--ben
*you might need an infinite amount of time to do it in though.
n i still think its a cyclic argument there are as many moves as you want to define :P if i you wanted to you could define ever micrometer of every possible arc on any plane of exsistance
or you could just call it the weave
'Want' has nothing to do with it, there are as many moves as are definable by the rules you use to define moves. You could define every second of arc through every move, but what's the point? There are fundamental things that happen in any move and if you are doing them, you are doing that move. There are lots of other things you can do in between the fundamental parts that don't change the move, and this is where style comes in. there are many places and ways to spin a 3bt weave, but (split time, same direction) if the poi spinning on the same side of your body as the arm that is holding it leads to the crossed side of your body, then the same thing happens on the other side at the first possible opportunity, you are doing a three beat weave. That's why we call it a three beat weave.
Pick a consistant way to define moves, and you can count them*. You can see where new things are possible, and get an idea of what they look like and what you have to do to do them without ever seeing anyone else do it. The more different patterns you try to do, the better your spinning gets, and when you come to dance, you dance how you wanna dance and there's always room for the poi and you don't whack yourself, cos wherever you are you've been there before...
--ben
*you might need an infinite amount of time to do it in though.
Delete
Posted:
NYC >Right , better words:
It means teaching is reversal thing. The comunication is allways reversal, so it has two parts. It means if the student wont want to learn, will not, but such a small attention giving opportunity to react for teachers like me and you.
Otherwise we can call to reply for the goodness.
I feel so happy to make it even better and better
love nad light,
:R
NYC >Right , better words:
It means teaching is reversal thing. The comunication is allways reversal, so it has two parts. It means if the student wont want to learn, will not, but such a small attention giving opportunity to react for teachers like me and you.
Otherwise we can call to reply for the goodness.
I feel so happy to make it even better and better
love nad light,
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
Delete
Posted:me. Im for sharing the love I'll teach what ever they want to know (if i have the skill)... usually stick to basics though. Give them room to figure out things for themselves, its the best way for people to retain knowledge.
If you just come out and tell them the answer, they will forget. But if they figure it out themselves, they will hold it forever.
As for moves, well...it goes like this... and this move goes like that... and... How much can you imagine.
I'll teach what ever they want to know (if i have the skill)... usually stick to basics though. Give them room to figure out things for themselves, its the best way for people to retain knowledge. If you just come out and tell them the answer, they will forget. But if they figure it out themselves, they will hold it forever.
As for moves, well...it goes like this... and this move goes like that... and...
How much can you imagine.Delete
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