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Forums > Social Discussion > Sometimes I lose faith in the human spirit.

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Kodiac
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Kodiac

member
Location: California, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Fire Taiger, Spyro (Riley) and I were on our way through the park in town yesterday and a man came up to us, with a few friends, asking about what we were doing (spinning at the time) and then asking to try our poi. I gave them the usual disclaimer that if they got hurt or whatever they couldn't blame us and then the man tried, exposing himself as very drunk, as were his friends. After while they left, and I was rather glad but things weren't over. He started pushing his girlfriend that was with him and we followed to make sure that he didn't harm her seriously. They argued a little and then the man walked off. Thinking that he was gone for now, Riley asked the girl if she was okay, and she responded that she was thankfully, but the man became enraged that we would have the temerity to speak to HIS girlfriend so he ran after us, going after Riley first because he was the one who spoke, but in his impaired state, he lost sight of Riley and thought Fire Taiger was he, so he did this huge running punch and caught FT just behind the ear. We were backing off now, trying to not provoke him. (Side note: FT and I are martial artists but we were caught off guard, but maintained our calm and tried to persuade him to leave before he got seriously hurt) He came after me, as I was the closest and swung hard, catching me in the mouth. In reflex, I swung and hit him in the face, and my poi which were both in one hand, wrapped around his head, hitting him as well, and came out of my grip. He hit me again, and we retreated further. Finally, a nice older woman who knew the man stopped him and retrieved my poi for me (the man had been coming after us intending to use them as a weapon) and returned them to me. That ended the altercation and we left. After that we got fountain sodas at a nearby store as a consolation and as a reward for having the control to not rip him apart. Anyway, total injuries: a cut lip (me) and slight pain from a bruised ear piercing (FT). Possible biggest loss: My poi. So glad I got those back! Well, anyway, my point is that sometimes I lose faith in humanity and become inraged at the ignorance of those that fear that which they don't understand. Thanks for listening! Just needed to rant a little to clear off steam.

If you strap a piece of buttered toast, butter side up, to a cats back, would the cat get stuck in mid air if thrown due to quantum indecision?

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flamazine


flamazine

journeyman
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 91
Posted:You should have broken his leg. 6 weeks in plaster would have given him a bit of a reminder to not be such an idiot!

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:this is why we need genetically engeneered super babies.

glad you're not too badly hurt hug crazy guys can be dangerous. i'm really impressed that you followed them to look after his abused girlfriend, that's a very nobel thing to do.


-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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Kodiac
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Kodiac

member
Location: California, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Thank you sparkey, but it was more of a ...nevermind, I don't know how to be modest on that one. It WAS nobel. biggrin

If you strap a piece of buttered toast, butter side up, to a cats back, would the cat get stuck in mid air if thrown due to quantum indecision?

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:indeed.... if people like you exist.. what reason have you to lose faith... your probably not some statiscal outlier, there will be other peeps like you...

shrug

If it was me.. i would have lost it... especially if i had the skills to kick his ass... i agree with flamazine... he wud of learnt his lesson


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Kodiac
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Kodiac

member
Location: California, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:ubblol I actually think that if I had been more on my toes I would have dropped low and slammed my shoulder into his gut (one of my favorite and most practiced moves that wins a lot of spars), probably breaking a few ribs. Unfortunately, I was paying more attention to the security of his girl than my own safety, a mistake.

If you strap a piece of buttered toast, butter side up, to a cats back, would the cat get stuck in mid air if thrown due to quantum indecision?

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munkypunks
GOLD Member since Jan 2005

munkypunks

enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Total posts: 367
Posted:Well done! And at least the older woman was decent enough to step in and get your poi back. So often people are too scared/self-centered/whatever to help. So good on all of you in that sitch. cool

You can't fall off the floor, but sometimes you need a chair to reach the cookie jar.

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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:I agree, drunk people cause more problems than they are worth.

A friend of mine was in a bar with his girlfriend, and another couple, and a drunk guy started trying to hit on his girlfriend, and quite badly at that. My friend told him to bugger off because she obviously wasn't interested. He tried to start a fight, so my friend pushed him away and then the 4 of them started to go. Drunk guy got back up and pulled a similar running punch to the back of my friend's head. My friend is now dead thanks to this incident.
Stupid people should not be allowed to become intoxicated unless they're locked in some sort of cage, or jail cell it seems to be the only way to keep these kind of accidents from happening.


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Kodiac
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Kodiac

member
Location: California, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:My goodness...Dead? How horrible...Inexplicable. I can't help but express my apologies. frown How long ago did that happen?

If you strap a piece of buttered toast, butter side up, to a cats back, would the cat get stuck in mid air if thrown due to quantum indecision?

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:It's not that unusual for people to end up dead, or crippled, in fights; even fights that involve no weapons.



Don't abyone be complacent about getting into fights; especially if you've done some martial arts training and feel that you can handle violent individuals.



The sad fact is that most martial arts training will not equip you to deal with a genuinely vicious individual.



Generally the best thing is to walk away from it.



In the situation where a couple are being violent towards each other, the standard advice is not to get involved (call the police, yes, but do not try to intervene).



The reason is that there have been many, many occasions where people have tried to assist in that situation, then found that both members of the couple turn on them.



Distressing as it is to see a drunken bloke physically intimidating his 'girlfriend' (or indeed, vice versa), in most cases they are playing out a long established pattern, and, even if you're on this occasion successful in breaking it up, chances are it'll happen again, and again, in the future.



It's not your problem, and , if you do get involved, then you're risking serious injury.



(***Edit: Obviously this in no way applies to every situation of a male harrassing a female in public- I'm talking about the typical disfunctional couple, drunken argument scenario.



Obviously there's other situations where it's a case of a man harrassing/intimidating a random female)







Even in the unlikely event that your martial arts training is particularly usable; if the guy pulls a knife you're in real trouble.



(and if you are under the impression that your martial arts training will enable you to handle a knife attack, then that's pretty much proof that it's not a particularly 'realistic' art).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
Posted:Thats horrible...
I'm sorry that happened...


.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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Kodiac
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Kodiac

member
Location: California, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Food for thought onewheeldave. Thank you.

If you strap a piece of buttered toast, butter side up, to a cats back, would the cat get stuck in mid air if thrown due to quantum indecision?

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Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:These situations are always the most frustrating. I can think of four different occasions of dealing with bad drunks, two of which I was with my fire props. I was able to talk our way out of all of them. Even though I've been successfull every time I still feel uneasy about each one.

These people are stains on the human spirit, but think of yin and yang. They are neccessary, and you do grow from each encounter. Have faith you are not alone. biggrin


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester, England (UK)

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Thats awful im.angel. Its things like this that does make you think about the human spirit in general. I know its a bit off topic but on my way home today I saw a guy on the street, obviously homeless, with a big cut in theside of his head and blood on his shirt. He looked so down and miserable, I just felt so bad for him, but realisticaly there is nothing you can do. Someone had obviously had a go at him. Only a true coward and bully would beat someone up when the person is at the lowest possible.

It makes me feel so grateful for everything I have.

As for the answer to Kodiac, the fact the woman helped you, shows there is still good humans out there. From the fact you were willing to help the girlfriend, I don't think you need to look any further than yourself.

If there was ever an advertisment for the banning of alcohol, I think this possibly could be it.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Psycho_lemming
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

Psycho_lemming

Running hippy spinning lemming
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 15
Posted:hug well done you....
take care
x


Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering...

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Bumfro


Bumfro

Its a bum with an afro...
Location: Newcastle NSW

Total posts: 223
Posted:yeh its so sad reading this thread, but it does who that there are decent people around.....Angle i just dnt know how to express my feelings, ur friend dying is just awful....

Racism is a weapon of mass destruction

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Burning_Bengal


Burning_Bengal

newbie
Location: California

Total posts: 24
Posted:yo kodiac, sorry I couldn't have been there that weekend I had company, otherwise I would have been there to help out as much as possible(knowing me abd my uber passiveness I would have tried to talk to the guy, fail, and evaide as I usually do) once again sorry I couldn't be there devil

burning thingys is fun, and exciting

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:Walking away if possible is always the best option. It's never good to be in a fight.



But once it starts, and you actually ARE in a fight, do NOT hold back. If someone is hitting you, hit them back. Hard. If you just shove them off, or give them one or two blows that aren't full power, you'll just be pissing them off even more, and giving them confidence-- and when they walk away, there's no telling if they're going to come back with friends or worse. Once a situation becomes violent, your welfare is your highest priority-- if you can take the attacker down and prevent him from causing further damage, do so. Better he ends up in the hospital than you or your friends ending up shot.



My father was coming to pick me up from my kickboxing class, and his tiny honda was forced off the road by some jerk in a big truck for no reason. The jerk climbed out of his truck and came over all aggressive, and tried to hit my dad, who dodged and kicked him in the inside of the knee, an exchange that was repeated a few times. He didn't kick hard enough to cause injury, but enough to eventually send the jerk fuming in frustration back to his truck.



When my dad got to my kickboxing class, he told us about this, and my instructor (a very wise man) said he'd made two mistakes-- 1, getting out of the car to confront the guy to begin with. And 2... not kicking him hard enough to damage his knee. There could have been a gun under the seat of that truck. Who knows-- if they're aggressive enough to attack you to begin with, you don't want to take chances with just how far they might be willing to take it.


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:Great points Gnarly Cranium. If I ever have to be in a fight, I'm not holding back. But I'm not too eager to be in that position.

Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Generally, before a fight, there's a pre-fight phase, and handling that well will often prevent the fight occuring.

IMO, the best ability to cultivate there, is the ability to appear calm; to look neither like a victim or an aggressor.

Many who seem to be looking for a fight actually do not want to fight; they're simply slaves to pre-conditioned responses.

Some are conditioned to be bullies, and will thus tend to humiliate or attack those who look like 'victims'.

Some are conditioned to 'not back down'; faced with someone who they perceive as being 'aggressive' they will feel obliged to escalate matters.

Staying in the middle, and coming across as calm, will, in most scenarios, serve you well; it will be less likely to trigger the two responses above, and it will tend to confuse those who are conditioned to expect one of those two responses (and most people who go 'looking' for fights are generally tuned to expect those responses).

Ex-bouncer/martial artist/writer Geoff Thompson wrote a lot of stuff, not only about realistic self defence concepts/techniques, but also on the equally important 'pre-fight' phase.

Unfortunately his website seems to be down- it had a lot of useful articles on it.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Selenia


Selenia

member
Location: Finland, Lappeenranta

Total posts: 28
Posted:My previous sensei said once, that the first defence has already failed, if a martial artist ever get into a fight. Of course it's not up to me or you or anyone, if someone is drunk enough to start the fight no matter what. Sadly that happens all the time. People are so stupid! Intoxicated they think they can do anything.

I watched a nature document once, there was... well, some kind of wildcat, that ate narcotic plant, it's 'hullukaali' in finnish, don't know it in english.. Anyway, the cat ate it and then it decided that it's strong enough to fight a full-sized gnu ubblol It got beaten, the cat I mean.. So, it's not only humans problem!

Immortal Angel: I'm so sorry to hear that frown It's horrible, that things like that happen in our world.


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Kodiac
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Kodiac

member
Location: California, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Well...Talking to one wheel dave certainly makes me feel my inexperience in the most unpleasant ways possible. ubblol But hey, despite my youth I'm willing to take a lesson in responsible self defense. Back to sparring I suppose, and look at me, feeling 'ready'. *scolds self* What a foolish, childish thing to think. Anyways, I really need to get back into practice and this event has thoroughly proven to me that I am not 'ready'. Thanks Drunk Guy and all my friends here on hop!

If you strap a piece of buttered toast, butter side up, to a cats back, would the cat get stuck in mid air if thrown due to quantum indecision?

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Fire Taiger


Fire Taiger

member


Total posts: 105
Posted:i feel like my response is a little late in the game but, i just wanted to say that drunks bug the living crap out of me. i think they need to be kept on leashes. all in all i am very grateful for this experience for it confirmed some things in my mind that about myself, and kodiac got his poi back so it's all good. juggle

The quest for poi perfection may bring much enlightenment...
and burns
OOUUUUCCCHHHHIIIEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

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Nate
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Nate

Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England

Total posts: 1530
Posted:i have a rather amusing short story to add

the other night i was firespinning on the cathedral, with my friend who i had invited along,he had never seen firespinning before!

anywho i whent off to light my sticks, i turn around lighting my sticks to see a few rather large blokes shoving my friend so i walked over there to try and help, they saw the lit staffs and apoligised (covered it up as a joke) and stood and watched

i found this very amusing indeed

so in my eyes people will always fear fire


I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:your very right dave

i've been busking late at night in a fairly small city. its a rough crowd at times and more than once we've had to deal with some very dangerous people. remaining calm and finding equilibrium are essential.

dealing with people like this is a judgement call everytime. sometimes a battle cant be won and its wise to know when to walk away too.

safe spinning folks

a


Love is the law.

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Selenia


Selenia

member
Location: Finland, Lappeenranta

Total posts: 28
Posted:But of course people fear fire! What else would make fire twirling so hypnotic an irresistible to people? It's like roller coasters, safe danger((watching fire at least, not necessarily playing with it)), adrenalinboost and all that.



I scare people anyway, trying to avoid them, drunk people even more. frown It's not like I've been pushed around, mostly everyone leaves me alone, but I fear that some day they won't...

EDITED_BY: Selenia (1114659224)


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AnotherPyro


AnotherPyro

newbie
Location: Sydney

Total posts: 18
Posted:We had a drunk guy attack us one night coz his girlfriend was talking to one of my mates. He came in swinging, grazed my mate on his lip and ear but he stopped real fast when I upended the kero bucket over his head. I think the realization that he was covered in fuel, surrounded by people with lit wicks sobered him up real fast. As much as I am a safety nut, he had it comming.

Ahhhh Life.......So many wonderful shades of grey.

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Bumfro


Bumfro

Its a bum with an afro...
Location: Newcastle NSW

Total posts: 223
Posted:biggrin nice one, that would make you think twice before starting [censored]

Racism is a weapon of mass destruction

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia

Total posts: 3415
Posted:the problem with doing things like that, in today's 'sue culture', is that if he'd come out of it with really bad contact dermatitis, you could end up in a world of fiscal trouble.

I will agree though, that in a fight, you need to go all out. the way i look at it is that as soon as that first punch is thrown, the other person is, for all intents and purposes, trying to kill me. Thus, i need to do everything in my power to prevent that from happening, preferably short of killing that person.

I will also say though, that avoidance is infinitely better than winning.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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AnotherPyro


AnotherPyro

newbie
Location: Sydney

Total posts: 18
Posted:True, but he'd have to find me to sue me and we were about 200km from our usual place. (Camping)

Ahhhh Life.......So many wonderful shades of grey.

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Shu
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Shu

Retro Fyre Wizzard
Location: Pietermaritzburg (KZN), South ...

Total posts: 538
Posted:hmmm...



and people have this big thing against marijuana! Personally, i think that alot of problems would be solved if alchol was illegal instead of weed!



i do not like getting drunk (and very seldom do), i don't really like getting stoned much either! I don't really like drunkards either, altho stoners i enjoy to a certain extent!



anyways, such is the world... we either live with it, and try and avoid such altercations (as much as possible) or we live like zenophobic hermits and keep it all out!

EDITED_BY: Shu (1115299403)


Regards hug

Shu
(Ice-E FyreStorm - Group Manager & Performer)

You know those people your parentals warned you about?... I'M ONE OF THEM! ubbloco
Yes, i do bite!!

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