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Forums > Other Toys > Yet another contact juggling thread.

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DoktorSkell
DoktorSkell

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Location: Van Diemans Land
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Total posts: 475
Posted:I was doing some contact the other day when this old lady asked me how the ball sticks to my hand.

I love it when that happens ubblove


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
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Posted:hmmmm.... so here's what i've been working on: moving both hands while moving or isolating the ball. The theory being that you can take contact juggling further as a dance form rather than 'just' juggling..

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Good job!!

No object manipulation should be solely about 'tricks', but also about how you can express yourself through movement with said object, as well as making it look really cool when you do it.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Fuero
Fuero

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Location: Netherlands
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Posted:Dance and CJ, that's always fun...

Maybe you should check out this vid.

It's from Silver and I think It's a great example of how you can mix cj and Dance

EDITED_BY: Fuero (1123130347)


Hmm, there's gotta be something round and shiny, I can play with

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animatEd
animatEd

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Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:This is probably gonna get me slated, but...

I'm not overall impressed by that video.

While Silver is technically a fantastic Contact Juggler, That video is somewhat lacking. I find it very Repetitive, and a lot of the isolations aren't even isolated.

He adds some *silly* things in there. At 0:43, I really don't like the way he looks over the ball. That's a bit OTT, IMO. And that's not the only point at which he does it...

He concentrates a lot on his dance, and forgets that he's actually Isolating a ball.

Don't get me wrong here, His body rolling is Tight as. He does chest rolls beautifully, the Behind the neck roll was gorgeously executed, and the one ball pirouette was a beauty to watch, and I can appreciate all the hard work he has put into it.

I notice also that he tries some Liquid and gliding in there, too. You can't really see that he's gliding at all, his background covers up a lot of what his feet are doing.

Anywho... My two pennies...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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UCOF
UCOF

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Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:*throws some roof tiles at LTC*

wink


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animatEd
animatEd

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Location: Bristol UK
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Posted:*ducks and dodges*

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:hmmmm....

I like the dancing sort of, but I can see what LTC was getting at. However, if I was able to do half that stuff I'd be happy.

Personally, I prefer Durbs' style of mixing liquid and gliding with contact.

What I was actually thinking was something more akin to Firepoise' firehands style, I think it comes from bellydancing?

I notice that a lot of Silver's dancing is one hand isolations whilst making movements with the other hand. This is what I'm trying to avoid. Instead I'm trying to make movements which involve both hands/arms in contact with the ball at the same time, thereby using the ball as a focus for movement and hopefully producing a more fluid method of dancing with transitions that maintain the movement of the previous move. The only way I can see it working with hand seperation is if you are doing two balls instead, keeping the movement and visual effect balanced out.
Obviously though there will have to be some seperation of the hands at certain points, I'm just trying to avoid it..


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:ooh actually, I just had another idea to open this up a bit from watching silver's video.

LTC remember how I was trying to work out how you could move your arms and hands round an isolated ball? using palm isolations use your other arm to give the appearance of contact with both arms by moving it around very close to the ball..


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Contact juggling News:
Wow ^ Wow

This is me being excited biggrin

Just spent 3 days in the lake district in the most picturesque quarry/cave.
and then later in a film studio
with Jago, ryan, Thomas (Mr Crystal), emanuelle and a camera woman filming contact - balls and staff.
For the DVD - "in isolation" that I'm not allowed to mention in here,
ooops smile
Don't read the last paragraph.

Off to teach another workshop at
"Ryan and Drews thurday contact juggling gathering in london"
toinght lots of isolation stuff
Shameless plug for good fun chilled out gathering
Anyone else from here wanna come?

I'm shattered this morning.

Smiles
Drew


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UCOF
UCOF

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Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
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Posted:whens it not out?
I remember never hearing about this a while back.

ubbangel


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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:bounce

Can't wait... biggrin

Glad you had a marvellous time Drew, looking forward to seeing it.

hug


Getting to the other side smile

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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:Lazy - just move on to two ball contact biggrin Try some Bollywood and Bangra dance moves as well as belly dancing (belly dancing is good for fire fans by the way).

LTC I see where youre coming from but who cares other than other CJers if isolations aren't fully isolated? Its the overall composition that counts right? In my opinion CJ can come across as pretentious especially when (as Silver is boarding on in this video) the artist is trying to make it look more like illusion than object manipulation. However, Silver does make great use of space in this video and his range of moves is always a joy to watch.


>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Gelfing Ryan and I have been discussing this a lot recently,
Isolations are one of the major elements of what we are now calling "Illusion based contact" or "illusion based manipulation"
It is all about the illusion: making balls appear to float, or to be weightless, attracted by magnets or to be on a string or a spring.
Even a good butterfly looks great because the ball appears to be floating.

Do people watching see the effect? the Illusion. The more they do, the better is their magical experience.
Our experince on the street is that:
high quality isolations stop a lot of people and make a crowd.
Dodgy isolations don't. people just walk on by.
Draw from this your own conclusions!

That being said, i entirely agree with you that the overall focus and the composition is big important in any routine.

Silver pauls video - Technically he has incredible skill, but stylistically, its not what i dig. i think that he has a lot of room for development on his body movement. smile.

Well thats my thinking at the moment anyway.
Any comments

Smiles
Drew


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animatEd
animatEd

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Location: Bristol UK
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Posted:Written by: Gelfling

LTC I see where you’re coming from but who cares other than other CJers if isolations aren't fully isolated? It’s the overall composition that counts right? In my opinion CJ can come across as pretentious especially when (as Silver is boarding on in this video) the artist is trying to make it look more like illusion than object manipulation



I understand where you're coming from, But if the ball isn't fully isolated then it's not *really* an Isolation. The ball needs to be fully Isolated otherwise you lose a lot of the 'floating' illusion. I can agree that to the untrained eye, an almost isolated ball looks good, but it depends on the type of isolation you do. Those 'cranking' (as I call them) Iso's that Silver was doing A LOT of (IMO) look poo (again, IMO) when not isolated properly, especially when extra body movement is involved, as it just looks like you're swaying whilst holding a ball in/on your hand. Anybody can do that.

Not that my isolations are perfect, either.

I suppose it's because Silver is held in high regard as being a good contact juggler. Glass is also very fussy (not the best word to use, but you know what I mean) about his isolations, and doesn't like to show them off unless they're perfect. Perfectionist! That's sort of the word I'm after, Not that this a bad trait, when it comes to object manipulation. It helps people strive to become better at what they do. I admire it muchly, and I'm trying to be more like this. Call it pretentious if you like, but for me, I like the things I do to look as good as they can. I love the feeling you get when someone that is watching you asks 'how do you do that? it looks so fu*king cool!!'

I'm not having a poke at anybody's CJ, here, god knows mine isn't perfect, not by a long way, merely voicing an opinion. smile


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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animatEd
animatEd

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Location: Bristol UK
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Posted:Drew beat me to it... and explained better...

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:CJ debates, I love it...

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Written by: Gelfling

LTC I see where youre coming from but who cares other than other CJers if isolations aren't fully isolated?



Me tongue

If you're going to isolate - it has to be isolated.
Otherwise you're just holding a ball quite still.
This is really highlighted when you're not using an acylic...


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Location: Cambridge UK
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Posted:A few random thoughts:

the 'illusion' part of contact juggling is a great part of it, no doubt it is what makes people stop and look, and in any CJ performance it is thus an extremely important aspect. I love all the 'where's the ball gone' sleight of hand tricks you see people doing as well.

Almost all CJ stuff is 'illusion' based as far as I can tell.

A lot of CJ videos I have been (except those rythmic gymnastics vids) tend to be people just staying on one spot and doing their thing.

I think there's two reasons for this:
1) Contact Juggling takes (at least in my experience) a long time to learn and perfect, and just learning the tricks whilst not dancing around is hard enough
2) Jugglers tend to focus more on technical tricks than movement, especially when in the early stages of learning.

I think the thing is as most people on here do poi or staff and therefore are more familiar with the idea of moving around and dancing with their props (even at fairly early stages of learning), they expect this more from other forms of juggling as well (i.e CJ).

I also think on video illusion comes across much less well than watching someone do it in front of you, and thus needs to be extremely good to come across.

confused

so what was my point? Ah yes two things:
1) to make illusion work within a dance, there needs to be technical skill to maintain the illusion and skill in dancing to complement or 'fill out' the performance in an aeshetically pleasing way.

2) Would someone please give their opinions on whether it's better to meld CJ and dance in the early stages of learning, or whether one needs to develop a minimum level of technical skill before attempting this?

Just my tuppence...


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:1) To a degree - although if you're good in one, I'm sure this compensates to some degree for any lacking in the other

2) Yep smile Learn a trick, then learn to move with it.


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animatEd
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Location: Bristol UK
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Posted:Hmmm... tough one, that...



I met Nika the other day (awesome body popper/contact juggler). Nika learnt body popping before CJ, and now uses CJ to compliment the body popping (i think I got this the right way round).



Other than Nika, I don't know which way round people learnt; Dance or CJ first. I don't *suppose* it really matters. Just learn what you want to learn first, and then take it in the direction you wish.



I would like to work on my CJ first. get that looking smooth and then start on the more 'Technical' (can I use this word?) expression. Soon I'll start pestering Durbs for some body popping/liquid techniques...



Although some moves do go hand-in-hand... you have to learn both at the same time...



And I find it's good to learn more than one thing at a time. For example, I am constantly learning new things with poi, staff, DS, Ball. I find it gives my mind more to think about, so that I'm not concentrating too hard on one thing and getting frustrated.



A Drew quote that I've found most useful: "Don't try to do it, Just do it".


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Psst - it's Nika

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animatEd
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Posted:Ooops...

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Loving the Edit Button...

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
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Posted:ubblol

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:Interesting points of view...

I guess it boils down to why you a Cjing in the first place. I personally enjoy the feel of the ball/s in contact with myself i.e. CJing for my own benefit. If I was street performing etc i.e CJing for other people's benefit, then I guess isolations are more important. However, I personally feel a bit stupid doing all the mime stuff and feel much more comfortable when the ball is actually moving or when the ball is precariously balanced (such as a prayer book or tripod) in other words the whole hold the ball still and move round it just doesnt feel right to me, although it can look awesome when someone else does it.


>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:On a different note I am having some difficulty with a new (at least new to me) move. As I don't know its name I shall call it a five ball diamond.

What I am trying to do is palm spin a four ball pyramid on top of a fifth ball using both hands pressed together at the wrist in a cup shape. I've got this part but the tricky bit is inverting it so that the fifth ball becomes the top of the pyramid and the finger tips from each hand are touching. The problem is getting the pyramid to rotate using the muscles to the balls of my thumbs. Any advise please?

Cheers,
Stoo. hug


>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:1st post - excellent point, well made
smile

2nd post - I have no idea, I don't do multiball - but you can do some lovely isolations with those diamonds - I think Drew does some in one of the Spinning in Paris vids...


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animatEd
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Location: Bristol UK
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Posted:Paul, How did that bridge that Bluecat was doing go?

Did it start off from the cradle or palm?


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I bought a new acrilic last week and I can't put it down...

Where do you draw the line of when you shouldn't be playing?



Is on the bus ok? Watching a movie? Sitting on the toilet? While on the internet?



I need boundaries people! smile

EDITED_BY: DeepSoulSheep (1124830168)


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Twisthem488
Twisthem488

member
Location: USA
Member Since: 27th Jan 2004
Total posts: 187
Posted:boundaries? Hah! You need no boundaries... Ok well if you insist the only things i can think of are during church and making love. Every other second of you life should be devoted to playing with your balls.

I know what you mean though. I got my first acrylic not to long ago and now have a blue one comeing as well as a 4" stage ball. biggrin

I found out the long way that contact juggling/ crystal stix really get the chicks at choir contests. I'd whip out my balls and sticks and would almots get immediatly swarmed by chicks wanting to try and wondering how you do it. wink


Im a Thespian, But I'll Act Normal Around You Guys

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