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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Glowsticking moves, with poi.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:In the interest of furthering diplomacy, I thought it'd be fun to look at some of the moves our glowsticking brothers have been inovating and seeing how, or even IF they could be incorporated into sock poi or fire poi moves.

It'd also be interesting to see what moves have difficulty transferring the other way. I remember giggling like a spaz at my New York folks trying to see who had the best glowstick isolations. They were ALL pretty sad.

Then again, it's nice to see moves like "Flowers" making such a smooth transition to glowsticks pioneered by our own diplomat Kael.

I've been talking a bunch of crap about 'gumbys' without actually putting the time and energy into actually getting it done.

I think that it would be important to document what we've done on film as there seems to be some debate as to the authenticty of claims.

So:
Glowstickers, can you give us some things to try that are specifically glowsticking?

And poi kids, can you do them?

[Disclaimer: We're talking about a SPECIFIC move or skill that would be common to the glowstick vocabulary. NOT can you do my 15 minute routine while I'm reciting pi to the 100th digit.]

I call gumbys. I'll work on them tomorrow if it's sunny with my fire wicks. I know I'll have to buy some parts once I figure out what parts I need for nonflammable straps but I'm on the case. And if you don't know what gumbys are, Durbs a do.


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:ubblol

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Well, if you'd had it a few WEEKS ago it'd have been QUITE useful.

tongue

Thanks anyway S-Dawg.


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: NYC


Check out the small video on this thread at GSC.






lolsign hey NYC... you're getting too old.. your memory is going.. I'm banned from there remember.. ubblol

how is over the arm illegal in poi? (keep in mind I can't see the context you are refering too)
also note , that I'm not saying you can't freehand sticks splittime.. I'm just saying that, imo, (<-that's the important part to note), I think the effect is different..


and can we get a non-gsc host for the other vid too.. I know a guy that would be more than happy to throw it up..


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i don't get it either nyc.

to get the same effect as spinning an isolation by holding a stick, wouldn't you have to fingerspin the sticks as they went round...?

when you spin an isolation, the sticks always point radially outwards so i don't see how you can hold them and still keep them correctly oriented.

did this kind of thing with double ended nets (two glowy balls connected by a string) in my mate sketchy's front room once with sketchy's flatmate at the time - some bloke called 'droo'? wink

the balls don't need to be oriented right but with a stick i don't see how they can look the same.

i reckon you'd have trouble faking an isolated weave using this technique too - especially anything with more than 3 beats.

maybe it will become clearer when i watch that video smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Watch the video.

And IF you could isolate a 5 beat weave the entire way, you could freehand it too. I can't. But for those that can, just do the same thing but hold the glowsticks pointing inward.

This is a simple concept.

If you're doing an isolation, the left poi will be near your right hand and vice versa.

Do an isolated whatever. Grab the poi wicks with the opposite hands, since they're adjacent. Keep doing the same isolated motion. Cut the strings. Keep doing the same isolated motion. Congrats, you're freehanding.


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I don't think that cole or I are saying you can't freehand splittime circles.. we're just saying that it doesnt look the same.. its the same pattern different effect.. I wish I had a cam, so I could show you... I also wish I could download the vid and maybe be proven wrong, but I just don't see it..



it would clearly be mock isolation.. no floating, and no consistency of the sticks.. just splittime sitcks.. (and I have seen lots of freehand vids.. the all emulate circles not spin.. at least what I've seen.. )



edit: let me rephrase I've seen it done without strings, but it can't be done with strings.. because the string get in the way (ie the twist up when you try that motion) so you'd have to wrap them into a freehand, and even then it would be sketchy, because you'd need the slack to spin the stick.. shrug its a nice attempt though... but still nowhere near the floating nor the isolation..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1115357057)


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"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think we're all saying the same thing.

I'm just impressed that, if done smoothly, it opens up a nice transition between stringing and freehand.

Rather than just knowing the two or so freehand moves that I learned from the glowkids, I know many more if I can transition in and out of these 'mock isolations'.

It just expanded my freehand vocabulary tremendously.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Oh, and I also added "catching the poi behind the knee stall". I don't know if it's an old poi move or not, but I learned it from the glowstickers and found it works well in wrap combos.

Should be easy enough with fire.


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I'm just saying that one would need an ubersweet transition to pull it off.. I think something along the lines of: (is this what you are thinking NYC?)

doing an isolated buzzsaw.. maintaining said isolated buzzsaw as it shrinks because you are slowly wrapping the poi up as you do the isolated buzzsaw.. until you get to the poi where there is only enough slack for you to be able to turn the sticks... then catching the sticks and maintaining the isolated effect.. maybe even expanding and contracting it a bit before going into some wicked freehand..



props do he/she who pulls it off.. 1- for maintaining the iso long anough to enter into the catch phase cleanly... 2- for doing said action with glowsticks..



I might try to work on that later this summer.. but I need to learn some freehand first lol.. otherwise it makes a pointless transition.. LOL.. but I've laid it out.. so let one of the other glokids beat me to it.. I'm ~know~ there are plenty of others who could make better use than I...



edit: ok so I tried.. and my problem runs in the lack of foresight in whihc you must catch the opposite stick.. and the method of emulations requires you to hold the same stick, not opposite.. otherwise you get that whole string limitation thing.. so maybe throwing a quick tapback into a ctach would be needed shrug

EDITED_BY: Rev (1115400682)


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Don't think you need an ubersweet transition.

All I'm saying is that it's a neeto way of freehanding that uses stringing theory.

I didn't mean a physical transition like a move. I meant a transition as in a link between theory of the two.

I'll back up even further and break it down into:
If you can do isolations with poi, you already have the arm motions down for a specific type of freehanding.

I did not know this last week. Now I do. Neeto.


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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:so some old poist is mastering the helicopter eh?

wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I stand corrected... you can wrap the poi on your hands.. kinda like a buzzsaw spiral only isolated... and grab the poi (where the string attcahes to the stick.. ) and go straight into freehanding it... I don't free hand.. so I hurt my wrist (well actually some muscle that runs up my forearm whihc is used when bending your hand up..) trying to adapt all my inversions, weaves, and buzzsaws into it.. it doesnt have the floating effect.. but its a gimmick none the less..

now I know.. and knowing is half the battle..


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Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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CeCeMonet
member
Location: Phoenix, Az,
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 25
Posted:I've got a thing I do that goes from the forward butterfly into a helicopter then to the reverse butterfly behind my head and then back again - it is still rough but I am working out the kinks

Her Ladyship Hot Shot

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:are we talking about the same term for helicopter? that sounds a lot like a bf -> cork -> bf pattern..

kudos for either one though.. cork -> bf is something not a lot of people have mastered..


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"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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CeCeMonet
member
Location: Phoenix, Az,
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 25
Posted:it is more like a butterfly in front then a butterfly over the head then one behind - but I have heard that the butterfly over the head is also called a helicopter... so who knows smile

Her Ladyship Hot Shot

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:helicopter normally is considered a freehanding move, when you hold the glowsticks in your hand. That's why rev is asking.

Like NYC has been learning, the concept is similar to an isolation.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:uh.. helicopter is not like an isolation. please join Glowsticking.com if you are interested in freehand glowsticking. =)

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:Well for all purposes, the appearance of the lights are perfectly the same with both moves, the only difference being you're actually holding the sticks.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:maybe you need to come back to Glowsticking.com and learn what a helicopter really is too... =)

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:wink I learned at my gs.c meetup.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: CeCeMonet

it is more like a butterfly in front then a butterfly over the head then one behind - but I have heard that the butterfly over the head is also called a helicopter... so who knows smile



I figured it was an overhead something wink

I guess I was aiming high with the cork to bf thing.. I cant get it up top.. but that's mainly because I don't liek spinning over my head.. I like my face not being hit.. lol...


and wes, unless your glowsticking videos are mislabelled the video in question that spawned the discussion has the name helicopter (shortened to heli) in the title and only does one type of motion.. now what you and others may call helicoptor is for you and others.. but it suffices for the discussion at hand to leave it where its at.. since the name isnt as important as the motion we were describing and the point behind it.. as I was so often told on gsc, 'who cares what it is, just do it..'

on a side note.. the inverted one above(though the name is kinda misapplied) is like a buzzsaw isolation, while the other helicoptors are like isoalted weaves and what not.. so its also possible that wes is thinking of the wrong connotation we are using when we say isolation..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:there's a (maybe 2) tutorial video of the helicopter figure 8 in the Glowsticking.com media center.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: mixinluv2u

uh.. helicopter is not like an isolation. please join Glowsticking.com if you are interested in freehand glowsticking. =)



And here comes wes like a load of bricks. [Wes, it really doesn't look like you read my posts on this thread at all!]

Wes, we're talking about an inverted helicoptor. The video I saw at GSC of mikedachink (it so bothers me to write that) is exactly what happens to my sticks when I isolate a buzzsaw.

Somebody remind me why I bother again?!

Style2burn made the association between the move and isolations 6 months ago at GSC and nobody flinched. I agree 6 months later and people get cranky.

Here are my two utterly extremely small assertions:
1) Mikedachink's video of an inverted helicoptor uses the same hand motions as an isolation.

2) By using hand motions similar to ones you would use while doing poi isolations, you can do neeto freehand moves.


Lots of people on HoP would say they don't know how to freehand but if they wanted to learn, and already knew poi isolations, they're closer than they might think.

Now if you're interested in learning how to isolate, feel free to join HoP.

ubbangel


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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:huh? no i agree, inverted heli 8 is the freehand version of isolation. but normal heli 8 is not.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Dude, I linked to the inverted heli discussion on GSC. We've been talking inverted all thread.

Kael is all cracked out and forgot to say inverted once but at least he didn't short out his keyboard with his drool like he usually does.

Inverted. Yes. biggrin


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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:and i only corrected kael. don't know what rev is talking about or if he even knew the difference between inverted or not. i knew you knew, don't know what you are freaking out about.

either way, if anyone on HoP is interested in this discussion and wants better glowstick freehander perspective on this cross-reference, i would recommend Glowsticking.com anyway.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Freaking out?

If I was freaking out, you'd know. wink

And I already plugged GSC several times. And even posted a link. biggrin

I just wanted to get the poi kids perspective. But instead I got stuck between Rev and Kael.

Why do the crazy ones always gravitate to me? wink

And you were recommending glowsticking.com to Kael as a joke. Silly.

I'm all smiles homie. Especially now that I'm a 0 level freehander.

biggrin <== See?


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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:And the culture clash continues.....

Freehanding, that's getting dangerously close to dance,, isn't it ubblol

Which is how I ended up spinning things in the first place,,,props are a great excuse for dance. but somehow I don't see myself freehanding with fire..I say that now,,who knows things may change.

As we all know, different toys are better suited to different styles. there's no way I can pull off full string wraps using chains, call me a wuss but I just don't like the feeling of ripping an oval link chain wrap off my bicep,,,same goes for a spiral wrap,,,they hurt with chain.

Who really wants to freehand with a pair of practice poi anyway? but glowsticks on the other hand are a different story. I can spin them like poi,, hand wrap them, ,,,freehand for a few seconds and go back to spinning them,,,likewise with wraps, just do a few then back to spinning. Guess this makes me a hybrid spinner, now I can upset all the purists while keeping my options open.

You sure can get some interesting right angles when freehanding glowsticks, my thanks to Ravergirl for the inspiration

Since I practice in a crowded, outdoor art market, I really appreciate the non lethal aspects of glowsticks, somehow I feel I could whack a passing tourist in the head with a glowstick and not get sued. I can't say the same for my practice poi, or staff for that matter.

I think practicing with glowsticks has improved my poi spinning too. When doing longarm patterns I found it was more a matter of faith, than feel, that kept my planes straight. Now when I spin practice poi, everything just feels cleaner. Same goes for stalls too.

It's ALLgood


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: NYC



Why do the crazy ones always gravitate to me? wink





ubblol

sometimes I think wes forgets that not all need videos for everything.. raves and ravers exist outside of gs.c... sometimes I think they forget that..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:i didnt forget, in person is always best. then 2nd comes videos. that's what i always have said.

but videos have other properties that's better than "just" seeing it in real life. that's a whole other discussion though, so i'll stop here.


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