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Forums > Social Discussion > Glowstringing, Fact or Fiction?

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mixinluv2u


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Location: chicago suburb, IL

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Posted:Just curious, how do you guys view glowstringing?

couple questions to focus/start off the discussion:

Is glowstringing and poi one and the same or different? If it's different then how do you define glowstringing and seperate the two?

Do glowstringers have a unique set of moves outside of traditional poi moves?

Should the difference in each tool/medium (glowstring vs sock poi vs fire poi) be emphasized? Or should all of them be spun the same way?

How do you define/develop style and originality in poi? Should the same principles of style and originality be applied to glowstringing? Or can glowstringing have their own principles and methodologies?

Are there differences in cultural background and philosophy between poi and glowstringing?


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Jo


Jo

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Location: Sheffield, England

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Posted:Dave,



so would you say 'aeronetstringing' would be a type/style of poi community (say C, D, or a combination)?



Jo.



ps. we'll use NYC's expanded definitions of catagories.

EDITED_BY: Jo (1112981579)


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

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Posted:Isn't it amazing that so many words, so much debate, so many online vids, so many, many hours, spent spinning, thinking about, arguing and debating what, at the end of the day, comes down to ways in which a small glowing object on a shoe-lace, or a ballon in a sock; can be spun round ones body smile

We live in good times smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
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Jo


Jo

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Posted:Ur... on topic dave please. wink wink



Jo. hug

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

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Posted:Poisticks can go round and round and round and round without traveling anywhere.
Much like this 'debate'.

smile


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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Haha,

skimmed thru this but as far as i'm concerned any weight on a string is a poi, whether that weight be fire wick, glostick or anything else. The string can be chain, shoelace or sock ~ The physics is the same with a couple different initial conditions.

Neither is better or worse. I found in america there was a real strong distinction between those who spun fire and those who spun glo. We refered to them as the "Fire Nazi's". Fortunately being from London I spun circles round all of them with both fire and glo wink ubblol

I used to spin glosticks cos i loved the speed, then i got so fast that i could no longer tell if i was going real fast or real slow. That was the point i started spinning as slow as possible, means you can go way faster in the long run and be totally smooth.

Then i spun fire for a while and now i spin socks. But there's no difference that i've ever noticed.

Hugs for all the glokids out there smile It's all 1 communtiy as far as i'm concerned. I've learnt stuff from your styles and if you're wise you'll learn something from my style.
laters


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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UCOF
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Posted:"Fortunately being from London I spun circles round all of them with both fire and glo"



YEAH!!!



biggrin



Go London people!



and Matt.. you said what I believe too: Written by: Spherculist
as i'm concerned any weight on a string is a poi, whether that weight be fire wick, glostick or anything else. The string can be chain, shoelace or sock ~ The physics is the same with a couple different initial conditions.





Yes. smile


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

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Posted:Written by: Jo

Dave,

so would you say 'aeronetstringing' would be a type/style of poi community (say C, D, or a combination)?

Jo.

ps. we'll use NYC's expanded definitions of catagories.



You really want my answer for the catagories thing don't you smile

To be honest, as I've said before, I consider much (probably most) of this debate to be based on confusion and both sides using the same terms, but meaning different things by those terms.

The categories seem logical to a point, but I felt that in some ways they weren't (in particular I lost the sense of the list when it got to fire-poi); this is why I've not said where I think glowstringing lies on the category list.

Written by: NYC


Can we redefine the categories to perhaps compromise?

uber-a) a category like 'object manipulation with body movement' [firepoi, staff, contact juggling, juggling, glowsticking, plates.]
a) a catagory like 'spinning objects' [Staff, clubs, sock poi, glowsticks.]
b) a catagory like 'spinning objects on strings (or chains or socks)' [Firepoi, sock poi, glowsticks, the basic weight attached by a flexible lead.]
c) a catagory like 'firepoi' [Double wicked, single wicked, towel wicks, light it and it goes WOOSH. Maori, UK, Burningman.]
d) a catagory like '"London" poi' [Influenced by emphais on specific move sets, motions, and philosophies.]



I can't work with that smile

For one thing, it's a loaded list- it specifically names glowsticking as being in B- which kind of kills any discussion about which category glowsticking is in.

On what grounds is fire-poi differentiated from poi?

---------------

I'll try and put this in my own words-

glowstringing is, like poi, the art of spinning objects on cords.

Purely in terms of technique, I'd distinguish it from sock poi on the grounds that it's suited to a different set of moves (eg fast and wrapped). Also because I can spin sock poi really well, and I can't do sh*t with glowsticks.

Then again, on the same reasoning, I'd differentiate tailed poi from sock poi.

In terms of culture, IMO, glowstringing has its own; they're taken ideas from poi, then again, poi has taken ideas from other spinning arts. They've got their own on-line community, just as poi-ers have.

You've seen my sock-poi style- I've never claimed ownership of those moves, but I did originate them- 90% of those moves I had not seen anyone else do. But I'm not so naive as to suppose that others haven't originated the identical moves, quite possibly prior to me.

I would say that my style of sock-poi is distinct from most other spinners; for example, there's little in common (in style) between what I do, and what, say, Kato does.

I have to say that I feel glowstringing to be more distinct from poi, than my style of sock-poi is; on the grounds that glowstringing has large numbers (of people aspiring to a consistent style) and that the equipment used is, IMO, a very extreme form of spinning implement (in that it's pretty much as light as it's possible to go, and in that I can't work with it without a considerable amount of future practise.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

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Posted:Written by: spherculist


Haha,



skimmed thru this but as far as i'm concerned any weight on a string is a poi, whether that weight be fire wick, glostick or anything else. The string can be chain, shoelace or sock ~ The physics is the same with a couple different initial conditions.







So that would make yo-yo's poi?



Are we going to send a contigent across to yo-yo.com to break the news to them? They'll be devastated smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Cynicdave1


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Total posts: 36
Posted:Whatever onewheeldave says from now on =D okay just kidding but seriously it's what i would say



"there's not a style called 'aeronetstringing', partly because, unlike glowsticking, there's not a substantial community (both on-line and in reality (raves etc) that use the tool you do)."



i didn't know how to say it without angering people. because when i make the argument before, it seems to offende those part of that smaller crowd.

EDITED_BY: Cynicdave1 (1112984630)


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Jo


Jo

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Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:About the yoyos thing...



well I'm assuming we can assume Matt meant:



"weights on strings that don't go up and down the string"



but didn't have time to go into nitpicking detail with his post.



Jo. smile

EDITED_BY: Jo (1112985028)


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mixinluv2u


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Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:OneWheelDave: i agree. just because moves are matched technically, cultural background, philosophy, vibe, presence will never be the same. from the looks of it here on HoP. Poi community is anything goes, as long as you are spinning poi, the rest doesn't really matter.



Glowsticking (freehand and glowstringing) has a specific culture behind the dance, has a set of philosophy and etiquette with it. and other than discussion of techniques and style on Glowsticking.com... spreading the importance of this culture, philosophy, etiquette is just as valued (if not more).



maybe that's the real reason for seperation.



coleman: and any others that claims all moves transfer to all tools, here's one that you can try - string wrap. record a short video clip of you doing this move with whatever you wish, socks/fire/electroglo/aerotech or whatever you use.



i described how to do this on the previous page but i'll post here again, all description of tools will be glowsticks and strings, please replace with correlated tool of your preference:



- pinch one of the glowstick in your armpit or behind your knee and hold it there.

- wrap the other glowstick onto the string that is pinched, so that it spins around.

- pull so it spins back out.

EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1112985395)


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UCOF
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UCOF

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Posted:and seeing as yo-yoists can poi with the yo-yos too....



rolleyes



oh dear....


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Jo


Jo

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Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:OWD,



imo you've exactly described a 'catagory D' there. confused



edit - "You really want my answer for the catagories thing don't you"



Yes. Why not? It is you that is advocating catagorization here so I'm not being unreasonable pressing you about it imo.





Jo.


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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

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Posted:Written by: mixinluv2u


coleman: and any others that claims all moves transfer to all tools, here's one that you can try - string wrap. record a short video clip of you doing this move with whatever you wish, socks/fire/electroglo/aerotech or whatever you use.



i described how to do this on the previous page but i'll post here again, all description of tools will be glowsticks and strings, please replace with correlated tool of your preference:



- pinch one of the glowstick in your armpit or behind your knee and hold it there.

- wrap the other glowstick onto the string that is pinched, so that it spins around.

- pull so it spins back out.





Any chance of recommending a video that'll show me this done with glowsticks on string?

I'm thinking that I can do it (not quite as fast as with glowsticks) with rhythmic gymnastics clubs hanging on paracord, but we all know that describing moves in text doesn't work very well.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of the lucky few with access to a camera though frown

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1112986343)


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mixinluv2u


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Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:it's more than just "D" category because:



- does London poi have their specific one cultural background that the dance derived from?

- does London poi have their set of philsophy and etiquette behind it?

- is London poi's medium as extreme in weight/size/elasticity as compared to other forms of poi to yield enough differentiation?



which are the additional points that OneWheelDave felt that you missed with your categories.

EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1112986147)


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mixinluv2u


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Total posts: 129
Posted:TheBovrilMonkey: Scooch's video has several combos utilizing string wraps:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1


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Jo


Jo

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Total posts: 517
Posted:ur.. a straight answer is what I would like from OWD.



Answers (ignore that 'London' is a place - that's irellavant, just a name for a style we're referring to)



yesish (does gs.c have only 1?)

yesish

no - so it's a potentialy a larger catagory by not combining C -and- D, however, it STARTED with socks.



Jo.

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TheBovrilMonkey
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TheBovrilMonkey

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Posted:Cheers, I'll go have a watch



Edit... Nice vid, that makes it really clear as to what's going on - thanks smile

It's a bit dodgy doing it with the gymnastics clubs on paracord at the armpit, because there's not a great deal of clearance to get it past the arm holding the string, but it works.

It works better with the stationary club between my knees though.

Still, it's a fair bit slower than the glowsticks in that video, and I'm guessing that since that was a practise vid, it's done faster still by people really going for it.

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1112987251)


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Naganootch


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Location: Staten Island , NY. USA

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Posted:I don't believe you did it. I need video proof. Cause then it's real.

We are defined by the choices we make

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TheBovrilMonkey
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TheBovrilMonkey

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Posted:Yeah, that part's the problem. No job = no money = no nice video camera to play with frown

It's not difficult though, it's a wrap on a taught string, how hard can it be?


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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mixinluv2u


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Posted:i don't think anyone said that it's hard. but as you can see, it makes a lot more sense to do it with glowsticks on shoelaces.



wrapping on the sock part of the sock poi probably doesn't work as well. neither will the ball chains of fire poi. your clubs were kind of getting in the way due to its size. none of them spin around the strings like glowsticks do because of weight, size, and the string/sock/chain/cable or whatever's connecting the poi head.



and you probably won't be able to utilize it the same way or combo it the same way due to the tool's property.



so the point is that this type of moves makes them "glowstring-oriented." just like how isolations are more heavier-poi-oriented.

EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1112989643)


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NYC


NYC

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Posted:Written by: mixinluv2u

Glowsticking (freehand and glowstringing) has a specific culture behind the dance, has a set of philosophy and etiquette with it. and other than discussion of techniques and style on Glowsticking.com... spreading the importance of this culture, philosophy, etiquette is just as valued (if not more).




I'm not sure that I want to open up this can of worms BUT...
I think that Glowsticking.com is a subsection of the Glowsticking community that adheres to a specific philosophy.

For example, "Glowstick Battles" are a sizable part of the glowsticking community but totally NOT a part of glowsticking.com.

I applaud this and support this, don't get me wrong, but I think the banning of battling and competitiveness was a REACTION to something very prevelant in the glowsticking community.

A counter example would be this site banning the discussion of drugs. I sure as heck wouldn't say that firespinners don't use drugs just because the site philosophy is not to talk about illegal drugs.

Summary:
The philosophy of the website administrators doesn't always reflect the philosophy of the community. THEREFORE the philosophy of the glowstick community in general can not be judged solely on the mature and respectable philosophies of Glowsticking.com.

In otherwords:
Wes and CynicD, it makes me raise and eyebrow when you use "glowstickers" and "glowsticking.com" interchangably.

[And wes, that move sounds easy, can't you do it with socks? I'm clearly not understanding it. confused Hrmm... how are you holding the string so that it's not against your arm if it's in your armpit?]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Naganootch


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Posted:Written by: NYC

[[And wes, that move sounds easy, can't you do it with socks? I'm clearly not understanding it. confused Hrmm... how are you holding the string so that it's not against your arm if it's in your armpit?]




left poi under RIGHT arm pit.... wrap right poi around the length of rope sock whatever thats going from your left hand to your right armpit.

Just like to mention i did this 2 minutes ago with sock poi that have 1lb ankleweights in the bottom of the sock. To bad i don't have a firewire.


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UCOF
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Posted:"- pinch one of the glowstick in your armpit or behind your knee and hold it there.
- wrap the other glowstick onto the string that is pinched, so that it spins around.
- pull so it spins back out. "

Which sounds totally different to
"left poi under RIGHT arm pit.... wrap right poi around the length of rope sock whatever thats going from your left hand to your right armpit."

If its the first, then I had the exact same problem as NYC. The string was right next to my arm.

So basically you are just doing a wrap on one of the strings?

Right?
umm


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Naganootch


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Posted:yup..



you can have the right poi caught under the right knee 2.



to have the right poi under the right arm do this.



catch right poi under right armpit (if your rope is the length of your arm it won't really work . It need to be a litter shorter than your arm)



Since the rope is shorter then your arm you ahve to bend at the elbow for it to reach your arm pit..... this creates the space where you can get the other poi to wrap around the rope.

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UCOF
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Posted:Easy.

umm

Well, Ive done that with equpiment of my choice (beamers, then aerotechs in nets).
Whats next?


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Naganootch


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Posted:lol did you get footage of it?

We are defined by the choices we make

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TheBovrilMonkey
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Posted:Yeah, it would be easier with glowsticks, I'm not sure where mine are, or I'd have dug them out and had a go with them too.

I'm not so sure that it wouldn't work pretty well with ballchain and firepoi though, ballchain tangles and wraps up pretty well. It'd certainly be slower than with glowsticks, but it's still the same move.

I'm not sure that splitting things into two different groups based on how many moves are easier to do with one toy over another works well though.
How many moves do you need to be easier before you can split it off into a seperate entity?
Do you include variations in that count?
Would the definition change depending on the person? - a move might be easier for one person with socks, but easier for another with glowsticks. Would the spinner who finds it easier with socks still be a glowstringer when using glowsticks, even though they find it easier with socks?

My overall stance on this bizarrely overblown issue, quoted from my post on the glowsticking forums:
Written by:

In my opinion this all comes under the blanket term of Object Manipulation.
Since there's a phenominal amount of crossover between the different props/tools/toys, I don't think any of them can lay claim to being on a higher evolutionary plateau.
In fact, I don't think that any of them can claim to be children of a set of toys, since people are discovering new things with all of them, which then get passed between them all.
I think that close siblings is as large a gap as you can justify.

As far as I'm concerned, if I'm playing with glowsticks on string then I may well be glowstringing or I may be spinning poi. To be frank, I just don't care what label people put on it.




But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Cynicdave1


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Posted:Yes Old Man NYC, it's true. We are a sub-section of the overall glowsticking community. But without a doubt, the LARGEST, overwhelmingly the largest.. I'll bet my glowsticks on it. Every single major dance scene is covered. We have people flying from all over the world to visit each other and a lot of them promoted glowsticking.com in their area. In short, we literally BUILT the glowsticking community. Because of our site, other glowstringing sites were created because they disagreed with us, but they still do not rival the worldwide presence we have created, nor the membership numbers in every region.

Actually OldManNYC, you are right about the battling, although it was at a nascent stage (not even big) in our earlier years. Raving culture isn't about battling or being competetive. However, when newcomers entered the scene after seeing MTV breakdancing battles, many of them battled because they didn't understand our local scenes (and when i say this, i'm speaking of a lot of different scenes, because our members have large numbers in each of them). In time, this diminished, and we hardly see it mentioned any longer. In Freehand, I no longer see battling of any kind. In stringing, I don't know of it's still going on, but it wouldn't be surprising to me.

we know this because we have members all over the world who tell us what other communities of glowstickers with specific ideologies are-- which is none. glowstickers before glowsticking.com never had a chance to talk about glowsticking.com with anyone. Every community was separate. But because of a lot of building up and spreading the word, we managed to attract a lot of newcomers into our scene-- with the philosophy of non-comptetiveness, non-battling,etc. Remember glowsticking isn't just stringing-- it embodies freehand as well. We literally dwarf any other community of glowstickers anywhere. So when I say glowsticking.com embodies the collective culture of glowstickers, I am pretty confident I am correct.


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Jo


Jo

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Location: Sheffield, England

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Posted:one question only CynicD:



in your oppinion, who is glowsticking.com?



you + administration?



or the community you guys built?



Jo.

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