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Forums > Social Discussion > Glowstringing, Fact or Fiction?

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mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:Just curious, how do you guys view glowstringing?

couple questions to focus/start off the discussion:

Is glowstringing and poi one and the same or different? If it's different then how do you define glowstringing and seperate the two?

Do glowstringers have a unique set of moves outside of traditional poi moves?

Should the difference in each tool/medium (glowstring vs sock poi vs fire poi) be emphasized? Or should all of them be spun the same way?

How do you define/develop style and originality in poi? Should the same principles of style and originality be applied to glowstringing? Or can glowstringing have their own principles and methodologies?

Are there differences in cultural background and philosophy between poi and glowstringing?



NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

I see the thread as positive.

For most of us here, this has been a fresh issue, I think that's clear from the number of posters who are totally bewildered about what the issue actually is, and why it's so emotive.



I completely understand why you feel that this is a postitive.

I hope that you can understand why I'd feel that this is a negative.

I don't want to blow this up any bigger than it is. There's more to the issue that you don't know OWDave. And I kind of resent you referring to my opinions as propetuating hostility without an understanding of the situation.

Wes is extremely diplomatic and extremely respectful BUT this thread was started as a direct result of hostility at GSC. I guess I was unhappy that it was introduced here with smiles and hugs the day after I was told "F#ck home of Poi" by another member.

I'm still open to change and compromise and growth and friendship and understanding and I think I'll have a great time at the GSC meetup.

But I am disappointed with my reception at GSC and the blowup that followed it and the manner and timing and lack of disclosure on this thread. That's the context that I see this thread.

I don't see how my disappointment is propetuating hostility.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:You can always be disappointed and yet keep on hoping and pushing for the future.

The important thing is once again what you learn from it.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave
But sleet and slush aren't 'snow'.


smile


Near enough - nobody is going to have a bunch of different words for exactly the same thing are they?

(Ignore the Latin vs. Saxon redundancy in the English language here wink)


"Moo," said the happy cow.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:so can we settle on the assertion that we are all 'spinners'?

i realised after 13 pages of "glowsticker not poi-ist" debate that i've never, ever heard anyone actually refer to a poi spinner as a poi-ist.

i like snow smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:I think the distinction between spinning poi and spinning doubles has too long been overstated, so to me, drawing a distinction between swinging a cylinder 4inches long and 1/2 wide and swinging a sphere 2 inches wide (eg tennis ball) on a string is nonsensical - but i guess I'm just wierd...



does it really matter if ppl want to draw distinctions tho? So the rave kids want to 'own' their 'invention'. We've already established beyond doubt here at HOP that none of us 'owns moves' (I think?). So whats the big deal? unless you believe in the ownership of moves (the moves are the only real difference that can be argued here) then surely you are excluded from this kind of demarkation dispute?



Sweeping generalisation: In the long run only monoskill practitioners fail to realise the interconnectedness of all object manipulation.



tongue


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: spiralx


Written by: onewheeldave
But sleet and slush aren't 'snow'.





smile



Near enough - nobody is going to have a bunch of different words for exactly the same thing are they?









Slush is nothing like snow.



Snow is white stuff that seems to be fairly dry; slush is a horrid wet mess.



Snow is what igloos are built from- you can't build an igloo from slush.



Having said that, it's only certain types of snow that work with an igloo; if you or I attempted to construct an igloo, even if we knew the construction method, would probably select unsuitable snow (indeed, it sounds as if you might be inclined to try it with slush, which would fail spectacularly smile), whereas an eskimo, with his/her sense of different types of snow, would succeed.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:nice side-stepping of my last snow post dave ubblol



again, inuits don't have 40 words for "the type of snow you build igloos from" dave.



they have 40 words to describe snow, from freshly falling flakes all the way to slush.



one of those will be 'igloo snow'.



to build an igloo you need a spade, a snow saw and snow solid enough to make blocks from - solid enough to hold their shape together under their own weight.



so, no, slush wouldn't do cos it might be hard to make blocks from but thanks for the hint - i was going to try that later rolleyes



as a quick hint for you, powder is the 'wrong type of snow' for igloos too.



but as we don't have any word other than 'snow' i guess we'll never have the ability to describe the type of snow needed to build an igloo...



except i just did.





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


quiet
quiet

analytic
Location: bristol
Member Since: 15th Sep 2004
Total posts: 503
Posted:re: egyptology's 'I wouldn't exactly call that QED, quiet. One, not all glowstickers liten to the same music and I'm sure not all the poists do either. To stereotype and divide us by the sorts of music that some people listen to is not really resolving anything

and stone's comment . . .

perhaps a capacity for irony is the distinguishing feature of being british?

or, to be more explicit: I was either a) not being serious or b) actually not trying to resolve anything, or possibly even c) both

and igloos can also be built from ice

in fact, i think the distinguishing feature of an igloo is it's shape, not its construction materials. steel igloo, anyone?

e


ture na sig


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Im sure you could build an igloo out of slush.
For the same reason you can make snowballs out of slush I suppose.

It would be a bit wetter, but it would still compact im fairly sure.

SHould we ask people on HOP who live in colder climates to see if they can make an igloo out of slush?

(Topic anyone? wink )



Naganootch
AKA CLERIC
Location: Staten Island , NY. USA
Member Since: 30th Aug 2001
Total posts: 172
Posted:^^you really think that near liquid mess on the road (slush) could make an igloo? I'd be a really really flat igloo but i guess if you wanted to say you made a new style of igloo then who's gonna stop you right?

It's nice to see the conversation degrade into a discussion on making igloos out of slush.

God i love you guys hug


We are defined by the choices we make


Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:Written by: Unfortunatly Can Obtain Fruit

Im sure you could build an igloo out of slush.



It's much easier to make slush out of an igloo smile

Written by: Unfortunatly Can Obtain Fruit

(Topic anyone? wink )



thanks, but no. I'm trying to give up



UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:If you compact it enough you might be able to?

confused



coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:you can't build an igloo out of slush i'm afraid youcough - one of the things that defines slush is that there is no bonding between the grains.

even if you could get it to bind, the 'gaps' between the crystals in slush are filled with water, not air which would make it a far worse insulator than other types of snow.

makes it very dangerous for avalanches on south facing slopes >15 degrees don't ya know - i did basic mountain safety training when i lived in france, never thought i'd use it once i moved back to the uk though! smile
whilst it didn't teach me how to build an igloo, it did teach me about different types of snow and the formation of layers on slopes.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


quiet
quiet

analytic
Location: bristol
Member Since: 15th Sep 2004
Total posts: 503
Posted:it's EASY to make an igloo out of slush. here's how

spread one layer of slush to make the base of the igloo. this may be only 2cm thick. then wait for it to freeze solid

then repeat until igloo is finished

ALTERNATIVELY: take flexible steel tins, about 2ft by 1ft by 2ft, and fill with slush; then either leave them out overnight or stick them in the freezer [cheating]

'nuff said


ture na sig


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:had a quick look around the intermanet to check my slush information ( i was right by the way but it turns out it is very tricky to distinguish 'wet snow' from 'slush').

but, look what i found... tongue

snow words.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Fair enough.
I was wong. smile

Nice snow Cole. wink



coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i liked this bit best:

"One often hears the old tale about how the culture that we exist in closes us off from much of the world around us. This assertion is usually illustrated by the chestnut about the Innuit having so many different words for "snow", implying that they have a greater understanding and sensitivity toward snow than non-Innuit because they have so many more ways to talk about it. This is kind of crazy, because surely the Innuit are more sensitive to snow because they live in snow all the time! Anyone else living there would have an equal appreciation for the subtleties of snow even if they didn't speak Innu or know anything of the Innuit culture."

which kind of allows us to examine why the innuit snow anaolgy was brought into this thread in the first place (any comments dave?).


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: coleman

had a quick look around the intermanet to check my slush information ( i was right by the way but it turns out it is very tricky to distinguish 'wet snow' from 'slush').

but, look what i found... tongue

snow words.


cole. x


Bookmarked for the next time this comes up in a thread somewhere online! Thanks! ubblol


"Moo," said the happy cow.


quiet
quiet

analytic
Location: bristol
Member Since: 15th Sep 2004
Total posts: 503
Posted:SO we've got more words for snow than the inuit?

crazy

the 'inuit having 200 words for snow' myth is, well, a myth. but i suppose you knew that anyway.


ture na sig


Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:We once made an igloo in Sheffield. The snow wasn't right so we made huge snow balls (the kind you use for snowmen) and made our bricks from them. A couple of candles kept us warm - ahhh, found camping memories - some censored contractors have built a souless housing estate on our former camping spot.

>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.


Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:my mum used to make me igloos in our garden in London (I can't think how there was enough snow)
they had a little round ice window and an extra hump when my friend came over and wanted to play too smile



NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think you could make an igloo out of slush if you just made it really quickly. wink

I mean, they make windows out of glass don't they? Slush is just a little less viscous.

smile


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:ablation - the process of being removed. Snow ablation usually refers to removal by melting


blizzard - winds of at least 35 miles per hour along with considerable falling and/or blowing snow reducing visibility to less than one-quarter mile for a period of at least three hours.

crystal - regular arrangement of water molecules with long-range order

freeze - the process of solidification of water

red snow - blooms of chlamydomonas nivallus in glacial suncups during the summer

snow depth - the combined total depth of both old and new snow on the ground

whiteout - daylight diffused through low, white clouds such that the snow and the sky are indistinguishable. No sense of direction is possible

======================

First of all; has anyone read the list?

Above are a few I pulled out on a very quick skim, through- none of them refer to 'snow'. They refer to processes, flowers growing in snow and visual conditions that occur when snow is around; but they are not words for 'snow'.

Secondly, even if it's true that there are more English words for snow that inuit, a quick reflection on the relative proportions of English speakers and Inuit speakers would surely lead us to question its relevance?

and, concerrning-

"One often hears the old tale about how the culture that we exist in closes us off from much of the world around us. This assertion is usually illustrated by the chestnut about the Innuit having so many different words for "snow", implying that they have a greater understanding and sensitivity toward snow than non-Innuit because they have so many more ways to talk about it. This is kind of crazy, because surely the Innuit are more sensitive to snow because they live in snow all the time! Anyone else living there would have an equal appreciation for the subtleties of snow even if they didn't speak Innu or know anything of the Innuit culture. In fact, it might also be crazy because it might not be true. Let's take a look at the various words that the Innuit use for snow and compare them to English words."

Of course! No one with half a brain is going to think that the Innuit have a greater appreciation of snow types because they have more words for it!

Of course the fact that they live in the stuff is the reason both for their greater 'sense of snow', and the number of words they have to describe it.

For eskimos, snow is omni-present, they build shelters out of it, melt the stuff to drink, track animals in it- their understanding of snow is vital to their survival.

And that is why it's going to take a lot more than a link to a shoddily worded critique on the internet, to convince me that we in the west, most of whom see a light smattering of snow once a year, have more words to describe it ('snow' that is, not processes, sludge, 'white-outs' etc, but 'snow'), than an eskimo.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
--- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

oh no: I mean:

The story about Inuit (or Inuktitut, or Yup'ik, or more generally, Eskimo) words for snow is completely wrong. People say that speakers of these languages have 23, or 42, or 50, or 100 words for snow --- the numbers often seem to have been picked at random. The spread of the myth was tracked in a paper by Laura Martin (American Anthropologist 88 (1986), 418-423), and publicized more widely by a later humorous embroidering of the theme by G. K. Pullum (reprinted as chapter 19 of his 1991 book of essays The Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax). But the Eskimoan language group uses an extraordinary system of multiple, recursively addable derivational suffixes for word formation called postbases. The list of snow-referring roots to stick them on isn't that long: qani- for a snowflake, api- for snow considered as stuff lying on the ground and covering things up, a root meaning "slush", a root meaning "blizzard", a root meaning "drift", and a few others -- very roughly the same number of roots as in English. Nonetheless, the number of distinct words you can derive from them is not 50, or 150, or 1500, or a million, but simply unbounded. Only stamina sets a limit.

That does not mean there are huge numbers of unrelated basic terms for huge numbers of finely differentiated snow types. It means that the notion of fixing a number of snow words, or even a definition of what a word for snow would be, is meaningless for these languages. You could write down not just thousands but millions of words built from roots that refer to snow if you had the time. But they would all be derivatives of a fairly small number of roots. And you could write down just as many derivatives of any other root: fish, or coffee, or excrement.

from http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000405.html
br>
and anyway, english has more words than anybody else!

What is this not on topic?

on glowstick and poi, well, I like how freehand relates to double staff! Far more fun...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:so freehand glowstick is a sub section of double staff then?

smile


Love is the law.


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:hell no, but it makes for an interesting space of new ideas... Hmmmm manipulation... wink

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:yeah if you had detachable glow stick ends you could take them off while noone was looking and hide them

mmm illusions


Love is the law.


mixinluv2u
member
Location: chicago suburb, IL
Member Since: 12th Feb 2004
Total posts: 129
Posted:Written by: NYC


Wes is extremely diplomatic and extremely respectful BUT this thread was started as a direct result of hostility at GSC. I guess I was unhappy that it was introduced here with smiles and hugs the day after I was told "F#ck home of Poi" by another member.





please check back to the first couple post of mine of THIS thread. this thread is not a result of hostility at GSC. this thread is for me to understand more poi-ers point of view.



i did not even intend for a discussion/debate, i simply asked what everyone's opinion is here... i would've taken their answer one way or another and left it at that.



read back carefully to see where hostility and/or debate origined here IN THIS THREAD before you start pointing fingers please.



UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:offtopic

no wait..

Thats not right...



NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: mixinluv2u


read back carefully to see where hostility and/or debate origined here IN THIS THREAD before you start pointing fingers please.





AHHH! I could not compliment you more without kissing you on the lips! And my girlie would get very jealous if I did, so there won't be any of that... plus you're not my type.



I've never actually said your name or described what you've done without saying a compliment. I never accused you of hostility.



I think you're one of the best personalities at GSC and have always been a decent and respectful guy.



The ONLY thing that I raised an eyebrow at was the timing of this thread ESPECIALLY in the context of what was going on at GSC at the time.



Written by:


i did not even intend for a discussion/debate





You started this thread in the social DISCUSSION section, which clearly states is intended "For involved topics and debate."



As much as I love ya, I can't believe you started a thread in the "Social Discussion: For involved topics and debate" and did "not intend for discussion/debate".



SO, in conclusion:

1) I do not believe that Wes brought any hostility on this thread.

2) I do believe that Wes started a discussion/debate by starting a thread in the clearly labled discussion/debate section.

3) I did believe that the discussion/debate was started as a direct result of the blowup of antifirespinning sentiment at GSC. I don't think it was maniacal, but I did think the timing was questionable. I WILL ADMIT TO BEING WRONG ON THIS ONE if people tell me differently. It just seemed a little wierd that there was so much hostility there and yet here the topic was breached with roses and smiles.

4) I do not believe that any of the GSCers started or propetuated any animosity/hostilty/bad feelings on this thread.



I'm usually pretty clear when I'm pointing fingers at people. If it was you, you'd know. wink

EDITED_BY: NYC (1113417918)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


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