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Forums > Social Discussion > Glowstringing, Fact or Fiction?

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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:Just curious, how do you guys view glowstringing?

couple questions to focus/start off the discussion:

Is glowstringing and poi one and the same or different? If it's different then how do you define glowstringing and seperate the two?

Do glowstringers have a unique set of moves outside of traditional poi moves?

Should the difference in each tool/medium (glowstring vs sock poi vs fire poi) be emphasized? Or should all of them be spun the same way?

How do you define/develop style and originality in poi? Should the same principles of style and originality be applied to glowstringing? Or can glowstringing have their own principles and methodologies?

Are there differences in cultural background and philosophy between poi and glowstringing?


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Edited.



hug

EDITED_BY: NYC (1113109393)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:(edited) hug



"Please don't destroy all the diplomatic work that several of us have done on a line that could easily be construed as an insult."



I don't want to damage any work that has been done.



does Wes?



Jo.

EDITED_BY: Jo (1113128590)


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:nope. i don't post short condescending comments nor snide remarks. i explain my way of thinking calmly. just because i disagree it doesn't mean i disrespect.

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:"nope."

That's great - thanks for clarifying.

I'll try not to interpret your way of thinking as 'disrespectful' next time - I can be a bit cynical I guess.

Jo.


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Wheres the title gone?

umm


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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Title = re:

it's short for 'repeat' i think?

Jo. wink


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Woohoo, savior of the title! (I hope)

biggrin


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Who got rid of it in the first place?

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:wes- your arguing semantics again.. you ahve to understand that what we are talking here is relations.. and that one relation (ie how the mechanics of a tangle and an orbital work) are the same.. TRUE... the fact that they are different in diamter, and for the most part speed, makes them fundementally different.. which makes them technically different by a different relation.. hence why you crank to turn a tangle axis, but move the pole about whihc the poi wind their axis in an orbital.. whihc is the same effect.. but two different actions..

there are tons of variabls that we can include in this when we talk about same or different from each other.. so that point is moot.. when we talk of the same move on different mediums.. we are not manipulating these same relational differences of which you draw your inference.. the motion, and the visula representation is the same.. the only thing that changes are things that are in no way represented in a visual output.. we are talking about the way in whihc our muscles must tense... and how strongly they tense when doing the same motion with differetn mediums.. its like changing the length of the string.. that makes the weave different in that the circles are bigger, but there is no fundemental difference... but we dont say that a longer string weave and a shorter string weave are two completely different weaves..yet the change in string length is exactly the same as the change in weight/speed of the poi.. so the weave with heavy poi and the weave with light poi ARE the same..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:so we agreed that it is OK for us to say that glowstring and poi is different. because from one point of view, it IS different.



no right or wrong, it can be same or different, equally valid points.



i choose to view it as different because i personally think that's the best way to view it. is that ok?



some other people disagree, that's fine.



but some people find my logic sensible and followed it, is that ok? then finally, more and more people agreed and we reside on Glowsticking.com, is that ok? We develop style and focus however way we choose, is that ok? we shown progress even with our "disapproved" method of seperation, isn't that what counts?



so please don't tell me that my method "doesn't work" or that it's "worse." because it's not. it's just different.

EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1113081749)


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Whats the point of a debate again?

Is it for all sides to come to the same conclusion?

confused


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:wes- that's not what happened.. according to the poll more people felt that glowstringing was poi.. infact, most of your site doesnt believe your philosophy.. many of them choose to avoid debate.. because we see obviously how well reason works..

so no.. again you misrepresent the case ...

I don't doubt that you and a handful of people believe as you do.. but that's not what the people on your site believe.. nor is it what the culture beleives.. nor is what most people that come across your site believe..

I never said you can't hold these views.. I just said that you misrepresent the case.. mainly because you do not respect the opinions of others.. and you represent your way as being THE way.. not as 'one of the ways'... you promote it AS glowstringing.. not as a SUBSECT of glowstringing..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:the poll is accurate? i don't think so. how do you account for people that didn't vote (total of around 50 votes out of almost 8000 members)? how do you account for the recently joined HoP members voting the other way?

i been around Glowsticking.com longer than you have and i talked to more members than you do on there. who do you think have a better grasp of what the overall view on Glowsticking.com is?

so how is your opposition more valid than mine? if i "misrepresent" the case, then aren't you the same?

and in the end, it doesn't even matter if what i try to promote is the majority. i promote what makes sense to me, no one is forced to agree with it. but the fact still remains, most of the best glowstringers agree with my philosophy and methodology of teaching, so i point that out.


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Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 544
Posted:Written by:
and in the end, it doesn't even matter if what i try to promote is the majority. i promote what makes sense to me, no one is forced to agree with it. but the fact still remains, most of the best glowstringers agree with my philosophy and methodology of teaching, so i point that out.



Isn't kind of wrong not to go with the majority? Even if the best glowstringers agree on it thats kind of elitist don't you think? I still havn't found out why poi and glowsticking should even be classified as being totally different things.


Peace, Love, Circles

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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:wait. so you are telling me that i should just follow the majority?



i'm pretty sure i'm entitled to my own opinion even if it's different than the majority. and it just happens that some of the best agrees with my philosophy doesn't mean you can't think otherwise. just look at the debate we are having.



also please read carefully, i said EVEN IF the majority doesn't think so. there's a good chance that the majority agrees with me already.

EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1113092721)


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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:Written by: mixinluv2u


here are some reasons why we think seperation is good.

Written by: Cynicdave1


Objections: Why do we need to "differentiate"?

Differentiation allows us to explain things better. That's why we label species. Why do we differentiate between football and rugby, hockey and ice hockey, saxaphone and a flute, cricket and baseball?

Answer: Because it's convenient to. Doesn't mean people can't use concepts from one of the other and educate themselves, but it's help when we describe things.



Why does glowsticking.com differentiate? Well because glowsticking is practiced mostly at raves, and we don't want competitions and we want tolerance, so we have to at least get the culture clear. So we call glowstringing "glowstringing" and hopefully it'll tell people the roots, and thus the culture of glowstringing.



To NYC:

Yes, we admit that other swinging fields are just as diverse. Just like how the difference between rugby and football is small compared to the overall field of ball sports like soccer. To everyone who want to study a particular style, go ahead!



Question: Why don't we just do EVERYTHING. Why do we have to name something glowstringing and just do that? Isn't that limiting?



Answer: Yes. very limiting. In fact, it's tremendous sacrifice sometimes to just use glowsticks on a string. You can't do certain moves as well as regular poists can. But you can gain some real benefits as well.



Reason.. why?: Well I guess it's the same reason why artists call some things "surrealist" or "cubist". it gives us a framework.



The same reason why ballet dancers and tap dancers decide to differnetiate and institute limitations.



Here is a another question:

Why do ballet dancers and tap dancers differentiate themselves?



Answer: Because you can't possibly learn EVERYTHING in life. Or have the time. So would you rather good at a lot of things, or REALLY good at one cool thing that really appeals to you, or like most people do you want to concentrate on swinging fire (or led's or glowsticks) and REALLY learn how to do that one thing that appeals to you well. Because they all got different aspects to them. with fire, it's fire, so it can burn. maybe you need to use heavy chains. I don't know. But when you really start thinking about things you can do with fire, you will, and the same with glowsticks. You can do a lot of things with it that's just not the same as "poi. We borrow more from yo-yoing and (Freehand) glowsticking. Sure, we are at an infantile stage, but give us a break, it's our 3rd year of having a website. Give us a year or two to come up with "pure" glowstringing. someone decided, hey I can paint this picture using lots of dots instead of strokes on canvas. I'm sure his first work wasn't all that great. In fact, maybe he finished up the painting using strokes.



Doesn't mean people like Picasso can't do a lot of things in their life. Like OnewheelDave when he described about juggling and poi (and it seems animosities exist everywhere). People like Picasso go into different artistic phases. But usually it seems people choose one or the other.




EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1113092601)


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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:the article that explains things a bit clearer.

http://www.glowsticking.com/about.php


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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

So is it fair to say that the reason you want to emphasise the difference between glowstringing and poi, is to encourage glowstringers to develop and innovate a style that fully exploits the characteristics that set glowstring equipment apart from poi equipment (eg lightness)?

In conjunction with a belief that constraints (in terms of moves used etc), far from diminishing the style, will actually progress it.



yes pretty much right on target.


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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Wes, have you -practiced- your theories recently?



This is 'just out of interest' btw wink



Jo.



pps was promised a 'live' video too... overdue imo.


EDITED_BY: Jo (1113094116)


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Doesn't matter as long as we learn something from it?

I must say it really did help my stringing development in the past.

What we need now are more like/openminded people willing to push what they do and try something new.

EDC wes? Two months biggrin


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Doesn't matter as long as we learn something from it?



BINGO!



proof not required in spinning imo.



Jo. biggrin

EDITED_BY: Jo (1113094401)


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Cynicdave1


member


Total posts: 36
Posted:Yes. and with this quote by OWD:
"So is it fair to say that the reason you want to emphasise the difference between glowstringing and poi, is to encourage glowstringers to develop and innovate a style that fully exploits the characteristics that set glowstring equipment apart from poi equipment (eg lightness)?

In conjunction with a belief that constraints (in terms of moves used etc), far from diminishing the style, will actually progress it."

I bid farewel. Thanks for a great discussion!


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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:click here to do it all again:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...ll/fpart/2/vc/1
br>
Jo. wink wink


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:just catching up smile


Adrillf nice video, I think I was having trouble with my firewall (it doesnt get on well with GS. C.) and I wasnt sure if GS.C has a posting policy (like that um? german hardstep site) restricting access to videos.

This has been enjoyable discussion, and I now have a far better understanding of the glowstick community. Though, after all this discussion I really think this is about the spinning tribes of poi and their toys, rather than glowsticks not being poi. Hippies like fire chains and bush psytrance parties. Ravers like glowstcks and massives. Which is pretty straight forward, except for the contradictions and semantics that I find confusing.

Im not trying to be smart, but I find it confusing when Cynicdave says Im not putting down anyone, or anyone's skills, but I am making a valid point about cultural differences. Then later Cynicdave said it seems to me that you are ignoring the rest of the thread from what i said the part about culture is a very small portion of the rest. Or later, So when I say glowsticking.com embodies the collective culture of glowstickers, I am pretty confident I am correct.

On semantics. I'm not saying poi isn't dancing. my argument is pure semantics. Since you word "swing", i would say you are swinging juggling balls, being that no verb form of swinging juggling balls. there is a verb form of dancing with stringed glowsticksglowstringing. Just playing with words, eloquently, but semantics just the same.

Rev I agree 110 percent, you can't say that fire spinning and glowstringing look the same. But I can spin fire or I can spin glowsticks. As you say to master the skill (ie movement) you should be able to do it with any medium.. not just your own.. lest its the tool that does the move. Exactly, so why has everyone gone off to compare wicks with glowstik???? I love the vids and its great fun, but what are people trying to prove??..

mixinluv2u so again i ask the same interesting question: if a glowstringer attempts to keep it "pure" and select movesets that are not really in-line with traditional-poi, but rather, other unique elements that has nothing to do with poi. Need to define what u mean by traditional-poi. Because wick and glow are not traditional.

i think people who claim all moves/style is transferable and all medium should be used the same way is the sole reason why i like to encourage all glowstringer to move away from traditional poi moves. because that's the path for me to prove a point.

All moves are transferable. I consider myself a glowstickers when Im stinging glowstix and a fire performer when Im using fire chains with wicks. Both are both poi. Like Cole said i still don't see how these things give rise to the idea that 'glowstringing' is not just a style of poi swinging

OWD, speed is relevant to the toy, but it is not a factor in determining whether it is poi or not. Fast poi or slow poi, both are poi, right.

And hey, if we get tekki then you guys are doing meteors, not poi wink When objects are attached to both end of a piece of string/chain then it is called a Meteor biggrin

still catching up smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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mixinluv2u


member
Location: chicago suburb, IL

Total posts: 129
Posted:OneWheelDave has got it spot on with this quote:

"So is it fair to say that the reason you want to emphasise the difference between glowstringing and poi, is to encourage glowstringers to develop and innovate a style that fully exploits the characteristics that set glowstring equipment apart from poi equipment (eg lightness)?

In conjunction with a belief that constraints (in terms of moves used etc), far from diminishing the style, will actually progress it."

so i'll just leave it at that. most, if not all questions you still have will be answered if you read back on this thread. i enjoyed this discussion, cheers!


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Does Cyalume have some kind of chick repelant in it? Where'd all the ladies go?

Wait, don't answer that. wink

I do realize that quite a bit has been said and clearly everyone's got their own opinion.

I will leave ya with one though Wes and Dave...

Don't take this thread as representing the firespinning community.

It's one small segment of the most outspoken branch of it.

I don't get much of the vibe in these 11 pages that I do elsewhere.

Take that for what it's worth.

biggrin


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:mixinluv2u, I have alway recognised the style component, and the development of an innovative style based on stinging glowsticks. I agree 100 percent, but I just cannot understand why it is so important for you guys NOT to recognise that you are doing is a sub-set of poi; a very stylish sub-set with strings and glowstix.



Sure glowsticks are different to wicks, and learning to use strings is difficult, and there is a different style. But following on from the football analogy. Soccer, rugby, gridiron, aussie rules and Gaelic football are all types of football. Fire chains, flags, glowsticks, tail poi etc. are all forms of poi. Are they not? Sheeze, I even see a big similarity b/t Irish hurling and aussie rules football.



I dont think OWD has a legitimate claim when he asserts that there is a difference because glowsticks are lighter and spun faster then chains. Speed and weight are just characteristics of the tool.



My answer is Fiction.



cheers smile







If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:"My answer is Fiction."

Wooooo!

I got it right!

wink


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MissEgyptology
BRONZE Member since Feb 2005

MissEgyptology

officially expelled from BYU
Location: Southern California

Total posts: 195
Posted:And the story came back round on itself.

ubblol <gives UCoF a gold star>


"So Miss, I think you win the prize... A mormon egyptologist in a firespinning chat room... that's gotta be a record of some kind"
-NYC

Thanks, NYC,but I quit mormonism now XD

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:click here to do it all again:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...ll/fpart/2/vc/1
br>
Jo. wink


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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