Forums > Social Chat > Knagi's Vent.... Thick headed ppl! Attack on White gas

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Alright here we go.... I just had a spin with a new person the other night and they brought white gas to spin with.... I'm sure a few of you ppl are prolly askin yourself what's the big deal... Well let me give you alittle background.

Fall last year... A very odd chain of events had unfolded in a way to cause a massive out of control fire from half a pint of white gas... While I wasn't involed in the chain of events I took the most damage from this spill. Being set on fire is not a pleasant experance... Especially from someone you've alrdy told tons of times to stop using white gas!

Spring this year.... Same person AGAIN brought white gas.. This time I told him he wasn't welcome to join us. Later that night he came screaming out of the woods with 2ed degree burns from his palm to his shoulder... Doubt I need to give details on this as you all can use your imagination.

I've seen this "DEVILS FUEL" do so much damage so quickly.. I watched at ground zero as flames washed over fuel and people much the way waves wash over the beach. Only 10x faster. There's only ONE use for this fuel... !!!SETTING *YOURSELF*(and others) ON FIRE!!!

It is totally useless as fuel for twirling. It burns it'self out very quickly, it's combustable as the devil himself and it really does have it's own plans... You can never perdict the future and you can NEVER know when *IT* will decide it wants to ignite and bring alittle bit of hell to earth.

What prompted me to post this now?? Well The person I was spinnin with the other night is saying the same thing as the guy who burned himself said to me.... "I'm more comfortable using it". I showed them the differances and even told them all my storys to no avail.... This person even sets out a candle to light thier poi with.

I'm so feed up with these ppl starting out new and listenin to some other person who's been doing who knows what for how long and prolly without even reserching anything! Then finding me to spin and totally ignoring a seasoned 2 year twirler!

I don't know what to do anymore.. I don't want to disconnect myself from these type of people, and I don't know how to make them see the fuel for what it is !!!!TOTAL EVIL!!!

If anyone could give me some advice it would be greatly apprecated..

Knagi

P.S I hope this note reaches some of you that use white gas and knocks some sense into your heads!

If you think this is a saftey issue don't bother to reply. There's no saftey mesures for dealing with the devil.


We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:for poi we use ultra pure lamp oil with a splash of coleman, on the rocks, shaken not stirred...
but then at this point in my life i only light up for shows, so it's not too bad on the budget. inside we use more coleman, the ratio depending on how big the venue is. i hate doing poi with coleman because i do lots o wraps and that stuff sticks to you after the poi impact your waist, or neck, or whatever. i use pretty straight lamp oil mostly.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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SilverEyes


member
Location: Dallas, TX, USA

Total posts: 45
Posted:This is an interesting thread; I've heard lots of viewpoints on the hazards of Coleman, but I'm not hearing much on how your safety crews are trained to handle accidents, what steps you take to avoid them completely, or what equipment is most effective for which kinds of fires (fuel dump panic, performer flambe, or unholy combination thereof).

We use portable steel boxes (Greenlee toolboxes) for our fuel storage, which have the advantage of having airtight lids to slam down in worse-case scenarios to contain fire. We have water, CO2 and ABC chemical extinguishers (10-30 lb monsters), and we've color-coded them so that grabbing the right one in an emergency takes a second less time. That's in addition to the fire cloths, towels & water buckets, and a fire screen between the spin-off area and the performance area.

Before each show, we outline who's responsible for which area, and what our emergency protocols are going to be. We've learned to use barricades and large security-types to keep the chemically-impaired from walking up into a performance area.

A little A-R, I guess - but I've seen implements fly out of someone's hands straight into the fuel dump, and found out how fast a leather trenchcoat will put out flaming implements (and not a mark on it, amazingly enough). All the safety precautions mentioned above came after that incident, because it's a visual that doesn't leave you. (Well, except for the large security people - that's because of a bimbette in fur undies insisting on dancing right between the performers and the fuel prep area at another show).

Oh, almost forgot to mention; oil absorber from the local auto store will go a long way towards killing the lamp oil slick on concrete or wood. If you can put it down in your spinoff area, so much the better.

[ 26 September 2002, 17:45: Message edited by: SilverEyes ]


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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:I carry a 5 pound extingusher.. Just a small thing that fits nicely in my bag. And always two chunks of wet jean. And such small doses of white gas that there shouldn't ever be a need for em.. Mostly for show when using kerocine.

Hehe one of the dudes out here started carrying a halon extingusher for his gallon paint bucket of kerocine.... lol I know why I was so nervous now.. I didn't have my extingusher the other night when she whipped out the white gas.

The toolbox idea is sweet Maelstrom got one. Did you know they sell things that look like mixers that are actually a small dangerous chemical bottle. He pours from that into a very heavy tin with a thick lid that sits in place. Looks like a candy dish almost but made of metal.


We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:BTW, I've seen much worse injuries from extinguisher freeze than fuel burns. If you ever turn an extingusher on someone, be sure you do it from a distance please! Do not get the nozzel any where near the person.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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SilverEyes


member
Location: Dallas, TX, USA

Total posts: 45
Posted:Good point, Vance - hence the water extinguishers. Our performance area techs each have one ABC as a backup; one will have CO2 for equipment/fixtures, etc., and the other has a 2.5 gallon water extinguisher for human-type flame that can't be suppressed with the fire cloths used for most of the regular fire suppression.

Each tech knows whether they're the "people" dowser or the "things" dowser. We have more located by the prep area, as well as the fuel dump. It wasn't cheap, but we've been fortunate enough that performances paid for most of the safety equipment.

This is the equipment we'll have on hand for the open spin jams we're forming at the community center we're partnering with. We hope to teach some of these safety guidelines to folks wanting to know more about fire arts, as a kind of prerequisite class for any actual fire arts manipulation. We're fortunate enough to have a nurse as part of our troupe, so I also hope to have emergency response to fire arts disasters as part of that course.

I know about the NAFAA safety guidelines, and we've put together some of our own; anyone else out there want to add their observations?


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:For a thread that wasn't supposed to spark a safety conversation, this changed into that real quick. Not complaining just pointing it out.

Rozi: You might want to tell your friends that the citronella oil is actually more toxic than regular lamp oil. The additive makes it so. The lack of refining as far as most lamp oils makes it cheaper.

Arashi: do you have a Bond girl to go with that shaken not stirred fuel?

Knagi and NYC: any fuel can cause an indoor incedent. It is the untrained crew and irresponsible handlers to blame, not the fuels. I use White gas in my shows for trailing, as a quick light dip and sometimes on my breathing torches. I need the fumes for tricks. Lamp oil and Kero do not give me that. I spin with kero, indoors cut with WG. With a well trained safety crew not only watching you but protecting your dump, there shouldn't be problems. I am not arguing the safety of the fuel at all, just of the people using it.

(my example: Doug in New York, NYC. He was new to fire poi, and poi in general at the time. He used white gas one night because it was all he had, and he messed up. His chest caught up, remember this?, and the towel person SAT THERE AND WATCHED HIM! It was his mistake and his safeties mistake, not the gas. For those reading: He was luckily not injured and I enjoyed jumping on him immensely! )

I think white gas is much like beaming balls, for experienced and well trained spinners only!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Good callin the line Pele...

So getting back on topic.. How do you remove white gas from the people who are not saftey aware and do not wish to listen to wisdom from exprirence?


We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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Kabukiman


member
Location: Washington, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Okay... so, yeah... Through camping, and various outdoor activities I decided that I was going to use Coleman as my fuel when I decided to start fire spinning. I am confused by some statements mentioned earlier. I am a wrap maniac and could probably do an interesting set consisting exclusivelly of them and haven't had any problems with Coleman of any sort or variety. In a camping accident I caught fire for approximatelly 30 seconds from Coleman and the worst that happened was my skin turned a little pink (which was gone by morning) and I smelled horrible due to the amount of singed hair. I hear a lot of horror stories thus far, and am willing to take any feedback about my inherent stupidity if someone else has a completelly different story. As far as Coleman vs. Kerosine goes... I think I would rather be in a Coleman fire. If you truelly catch fire with Kero then you are never, ever, ever going to go out (played with much Kero and Coleman as a young pyro). So... pro-Coleman I guess. Would love to hear someone elses input after I get out of my chemistry lab in a few hours.

I wouldn't know... I've never given a cartoon character an orgasm.

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Knagi, again,

have you put white gas naphtha in your mouth, dude?

i don't see anyone else here saying they have.


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Kabukiman


member
Location: Washington, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Yeah... I guess you'ld have to have absolutely no survival instincts... but once it starts it's a lot harder to put out... hm... I'll just continue babbling to myself over there in the corner...

I wouldn't know... I've never given a cartoon character an orgasm.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:i eat fire with coleman almost every day. wussy.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Total posts: 3597
Posted:found this thread, pretty interesting and worth a...


BUMP


ive been using White gas for a while now just because of availibility, I definatly prefer kero and have recently found that my local Ace hardware carries kero in the 5 gal containers for like 15 bucks so ill be switvching to a mix of Kero and whitegas (Any info on this?) to use up the rest of my whitegas.


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away, U...

Total posts: 479
Posted:Wow... how old is this thread?

I like to blend my fuels. I find a 60:40 blend of kero to white gas works nicely. The white gas makes it easier to light and gives bright flames, while the kero makes it chill out a little and makes the burn last a good couple of minutes longer.

White gas on it's own is pretty dangerous. It vapourises at quite a low temperature, and because the vapour's heavy, it sinks to the ground. This vapour trail thingy can snake along until it finds a source of ignition and then can flashback quite a distance.

I'd never use white gas pure myself. The bottle stays in my shed. I always like to carry a bottle of pre-blend to a fire spin. smile


"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Wow, the names in this thread give me nostalgia from the days I lurked HoP.
smile

a bump for good measure - could you guys believe we actually used to talk about poi here in the HoP general discussion forum?

ubblol


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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kamiam
BRONZE Member since May 2008

stranger
Location: , USA

Total posts: 2
Posted:I am with Master Sodium. If you are not practicing proper fire safety, then you are responsible for what happens. People will not be in your fuel dump, if you have it clearly marked....with someone gaurding it. Coleman liquid fuel, or white gas... does not explode when lit. I have seen it put in a metal bowl, and then lit, all it did was burn. The person doing this (and I repeat...NOT ME) put it out when he was done with it by placing a lid over the top. No harm done to anyone. So whoever thinks a family of 3 died in a white gas explosion, have you noticed the original use was for family camping??? Seriously. If some yank off puts down his glow sticks, and then gets a burn from fire poi, it would be because these are not toys. You can't even buy them at the mall. This is equipment. Fire equipment. It ios dangerous. If you want complete safety, go back to swinging a little glowy stick around with the rest of Jr High. This here is grown up stuff. No matter what fuel you use, never burn alone, always have a safety, and if there is a crowd involved, you MUST have security. Never burn next to your fuel dump. ALWAYS use lids on your fuel.

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