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Forums > Social Chat > Dont Attak Iraq Demo!! (london 28th)

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Urban_Culture


member
Location: coventry, midlands, uk

Total posts: 89
Posted:NE1 goin to the demo, itz gona b a biggun! stop the war coalition

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:You asked what I'd propose if I was the US/UN. As real life is organic and situations change constantly actions would vary in response to events as they unfolded. But here's a start They've Iraqi related actions, but in parallel, and even quicker I'd hall Israel up in front of the UN, bollock them and force implementation of UN plans for a peace settlement and a Palestine state as defined by UN resolutions. Basically I'd treat Israel and Iraq equally.

Form an UN council for control and monitoring of UN Iraqi policy with at least half the members from the Middle East. This immediately makes Iraq and it's neighbours more comfortable as peer judgement is more readily received. The 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council sit in the Council as equal members. Lift most of the sanctions against Iraq so that items relating to medicine, food, water, sanitation, agricultre and education are not controlled. Also redefine the 'dual-use' list. Wheelbarows are not dual-use! Change the UN policy so that a veto on a shipment needs at least 3 or 4 votes amongst the 15 members of the UN Council. Help reconstruct basic infrastructure (roads, schools, hospitals) with Iraq and decontaminate the battle fields of the 300 tonnes of uranium and plutonium left behind in Southern Iraq by the allies. The course now is set for UN inspectors to return to Iraq. That's a great step. If illegal weapons are found and are not destroyed that is when controlled bombing of select instillations occurs. This isn't ideal but might be necessary and they'd have to be a mechanism of last minute warnings and such to prevent deaths if possible.
It's a start.
And Ray, we don't live in an ideal world. Doesn't mean we run away from it, but it doesn't mean we sit back and accept it. Just because somebody else uses illegal or immoral ways of getting ahead doesn't mean we have to. Be the change and the change shall happen.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ray, I'm out of here, but I don't think it’s fair to put Ho Chi Min, in with Stalin and Hitler. After all, he was a great leader (not a dictator) and pro US until they shat all over him.

quote: Where do you get off saying that McDonalds is money grabbing, sounds to me like your a BK fan! That's out of line too. Got any idea how much rainforest gets destroyed to produce a BIG Mac?

Great points Dom.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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SmallBoy - x


SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London

Total posts: 2737
Posted:yay Dom, 1000 posts

Sorry not getting dragged into this debate, don't wanna upset Ray further, his head might burst - lol


Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Oh yeah, 1000 posts. Very apt that it should be a long political rant nobody will read

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SmallBoy - x


SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London

Total posts: 2737
Posted:Ah yes, but it was all done in style my friend - lol

Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:Don't sweat it, Dom, I doubt anybody reads my posts either!



Raph


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Well, it seems like the anti-war camp has at least one ally...

Daschle Blasts Bush on Iraq

Senators trade jabs over Iraq

Daschle: Bush exploiting possible war

By Sean Loughlin (CNN Washington Bureau)
Wednesday, September 25, 2002 Posted: 3:53 PM EDT (1953 GMT)



Sen. Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota : "We ought not politicize this war."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Tools


------------------------------------------------------------------------


SPECIAL REPORT


Timeline: White House states case for Saddam violations
Interactive: Chemical weapons
Timeline: U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq
Interactive Map: World stances on Iraq
In-Depth: The Unfinished War



Senate Committee Hearings
Armed Services
Former National Security Adviser Samuel Berger
Former Secretary of Defense and Director of CIA James Schlesinger
Foreign Relations
Former United Nations Ambassadors Richard Holbrooke and Thomas Pickering



RELATED

Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle accuses Vice President Dick Cheney of politicizing the Iraq debate by urging an audience in Kansas to vote for a GOP candidate because he supports President Bush on the issue.



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sharply stepping up the political rhetoric about Iraq, Democrats and Republicans traded shots Wednesday over whether the Bush administration was exploiting the possibility of war for political gain.

In a blistering salvo delivered on the Senate floor, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle lashed out at Bush, saying the administration was doing just that and had impugned Senate Democrats in the process.

Daschle, D-South Dakota, read through a litany of comments from administration and GOP figures about Iraq, including one from Bush who was quoted by The Washington Post Wednesday as saying the Democratic-controlled Senate was "not interested in the security of the American people."

"Not interested in the security of the American people?" Daschle said. "You tell Senator Inouye he's not interested in the security of the American people. You tell those who fought in Vietnam and in World War II they're not interested in the security of the American people. That is outrageous. Outrageous. The president ought to apologize."

Daniel Inouye is a Democratic senator from Hawaii who lost his arm in World War II.

Bush's comments of late about Senate Democrats and national security have come in the context of the fight over legislation for the proposed Department of Homeland Security . The Bush remark about the Senate not being "interested" in national security came at a campaign event Monday in New Jersey when the president was talking about the legislation -- not Iraq.

With the midterm elections less than two months away, both parties have become especially sensitive to issues that may sway voters at the poll. Republicans need just one more GOP senator elected to regain control of that chamber.

A few hours after Daschle spoke, Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott, R-Mississippi, took to the Senate floor and hit back, saying Democrats were unfairly attacking the president.

"Who is the enemy here, the president of the United States or Saddam Hussein?" Lott asked. "That's who was attacked this morning here on the floor of the United States Senate."

Lott: 'Cool the rhetoric'

Earlier, Lott told reporters that "Senator Daschle needs to cool the rhetoric."

Added Lott: "We've got a lot of work to do, we need to do it in a bipartisan way. Accusations of that type are not helpful."

Daschle, however, said in his floor speech that several Republican figures had made comments that have led him to conclude the administration was politicizing the Iraq debate.

The White House wants Congress to approve a resolution that would authorize the use of force against Iraq, but many Democrats have criticized the draft as too broad. Negotiations over the resolution between White House and congressional aides continued behind closed doors.

Daschle cited a GOP pollster who said war as an issue could benefit Republicans in the upcoming midterm elections. He referenced Vice President Dick Cheney who spoke about Iraq while campaigning for a Republican candidate in Kansas Monday.

And he talked about White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card who has been quoted as saying "from a marketing point of view" it made sense to raise the issue of Iraq after Labor Day when lawmakers would be back from their August break.

"That is wrong," Daschle said. "We ought not politicize this war. We ought not politicize the rhetoric about life and death."

Daschle spoke as Bush met at the White House with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe.

Asked by reporters whether he was politicizing the war, Bush responded, "My job is to protect the American people," Bush said. "And I will continue to do that regardless of the season."

House Majority Whip Tom DeLay dismissed the Democratic criticism, saying they were "losing the debate" and lashing out.

"No one is playing politics with this war," the Texas Republican told CNN. "The war that started on 9/11 is an ongoing war that we have to deal with, but at the same time we have campaigns in this country, and what would you have the vice president do? Get out on the campaign trail and give a silent speech?"

But other Democrats joined in the criticism of the Bush administration.

Sen. Robert Byrd, D-West Virginia, challenged the notion that the United States could launch a pre-emptive strike against Iraq, accused of developing weapons of mass destruction in violation of U.N. resolutions.

Byrd said the Bush administration had trivialized the congressional debate on authorizing the use of force.

"There is nothing more sobering than the decision to go to war," Byrd said. "But the administration has turned the decision into a bumper-sticker election theme."

The political rhetoric escalated as lawmakers held several hearings Wednesday about Iraq.

At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Samuel Berger, former national security adviser under President Clinton, urged the Bush administration to exhaust diplomatic efforts before taking any military action against Baghdad.

"Yes, there are a strong of broken resolutions," Berger said, citing more than one dozen U.N. resolutions on disarmament Saddam Hussein has broken since the end of the Persian Gulf War. "But we are in an entirely new circumstance here -- contemplating a military invasion of Iraq. And the world expects us to test the nonmilitary options before we move to the military one. We also owe that to the men and women who will be risking their lives if we decide to do so."

And the Senate Foreign Relations Committee heard from former U.S. ambassadors, who also stressed diplomacy.

Meanwhile, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters in Poland Wednesday that U.S. intelligence has determined there is a link between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network, but he refused to elaborate. Rumsfeld was attending a NATO defense minister's meeting in Warsaw.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Actually only PART of Vietnam wanted to be communistic, dont forget those that didnt want it came to the UN and asked for help. The US didnt just strom in and send rounds down range!

Are you saying that those that dont want to be communists dont have the right to choose?

Man McDonalds is a resturaunt, nothing more. It is not Moobies!! (Watch Dogma for more info) It is not a power hungry devil machine. Your just blowing smoke from somewhere!

Isnt it Ironic how all Communistic states call themselves Republics! The USSR was a complete and total communistic state. "What's in a name? Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?" Good ole Willy wrote that.

The way the world is right now, without oil EVERYTHING STOPS!! Not just the West. Though we still have those lovly nukelear destroyers and subs who dont need oil!

I never said that Ho Chi Min wanted to rule the world. Actually it is ironic that the US Embasy is on that street (if it is like I know or care) What do you want me to do about it, send around a petition to ask that the street's name gets changed! What the hell does that have to do with anything?

I do not have the right to ask that wonderfull question you do. Why? People in my place dont have that luxurie!
"Ours is not to reason why..."

It is my job to follow orders! You need to get that through your head, I dont ask why!

There is a difference between following blindly and following orders. You can follow blindly I cant.

Dom where did you get that quote?
Dom go to Thailand! Kurat for starts, They have worse air than any big US city, and it is half the size of New York and LA. Or go to Bangcock, that is even worse. Look at your own buildings in London, over a decade ago did they not go under EXTENCIVE cleaining due to all the polution your people put in the air? Call me a liar too Dom, I know I was there!

The US blocked more arms and weapons than medicines, maybe that instead of making weapons Sadam should have been making medicine!

I never said they would welcome them.

Week willed? The US is not week willed. The Japanesse thought the same thing in WWII Guess what? Beat them. If you think we are week, you are quite mistaken. IMHO the US can not be beaten, destroy our government and destroy our militray, big deal. Your main problem is the people. You cant beat America with out killing every last one. As long as someone believes in Old Glory, America is undefeatable!

I never said the Jews had been there longer, but look at history the Jews were there before Palistine! Jerusislem is a Jewish city! They were there first. Frankly they could have been put on some uninhabited tropical island for all I care. I am not saying that to be mean just that, sombody would complain no matter what happend.

Dom your loosing me, because your putting words in my mouth.

Hey I enjoy a good mud wrestling as much as the next guy but still its fictional. The joke was probably fictional, once again you take what I said with a light heart and turned it serius, way to take the fun out of things.

The Olympics were held in Nazi controled Germany, was it the US' fault there too? Fuck Dom you dont get paid enough I guess thats our fault too!!

Dom where in the world would you get the money to rebuild? Would you tax the world? Your ideas though good are not logistically sound. There is more to war than bullets. Things you dont see things you dont know about Dom. The real war is not fought on the battle ground, its fought in the rear!

Stone how much rainforest gets chopped down to make a Big Mac, hell I thought it was 2 all beef patties special sauce pickles lettuce chease on a sessmi sead bun! I could be wrong, but after making the damn things for a few years I thought I knew the ingreadents!

I dont have time to read the rest of the posts sorry.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:yo Brits (& occupied members of other Western Isles), our overseas pyro family, y'all,
especially y'all who are going to this London rally,

can you tell me, really, really, why Tony Blair fills the job of being George W's mouthpiece, supposedly to Europe, but really to the global press?

no one except, if W's lucky, the American public at large, has the impression he's persuading anyone in the world, and even the US press question his effectiveness.

but why do it? why does Tony himself do it? future board membership on lucrative US companies? not a country estate out in the New World like more autocratic foreign leaders are given or helped to own here, surely?

do we know some dirty sexual secret the CIA keeps from Scotland Yard & Interpol & the British tabloids? as if the CIA were better at digging dirt than your xtreme newssports tabloids! (we recently had a sickly funny thing here, we had a US girl stalked by the son of a British Lord at school here, then the parents of the girl were shocked that the British tabloids turned up at their home here & stalked her worse than young m'Lord, the police were trying to tell them, "this is America, we don't stalk people like that." just a month ago!)

does Tony believe in this cause, while i have a sense - update me, please! - a majority of Her Majesty's subjects (voluntary subjects & not) do not approve of his stance on W's behalf?

WHY WHY WHY does Tony do this?

yours in the kin-fire of friendship f*ckin any division between us from prior revolutions,

~ Mike

[ 26 September 2002, 13:20: Message edited by: FireMike ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:*this is a quick public service announcement*

Any argument, be it well constructed and well thought out or just a bucket of chum, is made almost laughable when syntax, grammer and spelling are all ignored.

There used to be a Damon Wayans characters on "In Living Color" where he used big words all incorrectly.
"Pardon the incursion while I propogate my platypus."

Please think twice before hitting the post button.

We now return you to your usually scheduled episode of Eastenders.

Raph


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Raphael, I think you want the post about the English language. Besides we arnt being graded here so big friggin deal about grammer, spelling and punctuation.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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lightbug


member
Location: arizona

Total posts: 321
Posted:^^^^^^^^^^^^
put a cork in it english 101.. what does that have to do w/ anything ... posts are here to express opinions its not an exam.. yours is the only post that doesnt belong.

dom your a bag of ass. i have tried to be civil w/ you in the past but your posts make me sick to my stomach. i almost want to close my hop account.. you throw some bull shit out there. i would love to know where you get your propaganda. are you a terrorist?? or just a misinformation junky .. but seriously if you have reputable sources i would love to no where you got these lil tid bits:

quote: It's a myth that the Iraqi people will welcome the US troops when they invade. Any US action will be against their country and like most people they're a patriotic and proud people, who have suffered for over a decade from US enforced sanctions. They've seen their children die from treatable diseases because the US has blocked shipments of crucial medicines. They are Iraqi and they are Arabs, and many do not want an arrogant, selfish western power dictating to them just as much as they don't want Saddam. If Saudi troops invaded it might be a different story.
why would we block shipments of medicine?? now im not saying it didnt happen cause i wasnt there, but i have never heard anything like that. why do we see marines providing medical aid to people there?? why would they stop medical supplies only to go in and take care of the people ourselves. where are these supplies coming from? it seems like UN and us military are the only ones helping. have you ever met anyone who is from iraq? i bet you dont.. well i know a couple.. one real well.. he left iraq and came to america with his children. i have heard some nasty stories about your buddy sadaam ,real shit not the crap you spill. hes a thug he murders kidnaps robs and test chem weapons on his own people that you think are so fond of him. not a suitable leader. US put him there its our responsability to remove him.. this is the last time iam ever gonna respond to one of these american bashing threads.. we dont need there oil contrary to what your big brain thinks.. we get about 3% of our oil from iraq. there would be no sense in spending resources and lives for that insugnifficant amount of oil. i cant beleive you trying to say that others push sucide bombers to do what they do.. you think a child can make that decision on his own? you fuck tard there brain washed.. im not even gonna go on im bored w/ you.. i think 99% of your posts are groundless and your a bimbo..


drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:For real lightbug, are you winding us up????

Otherwise, your combination of pig ignorance and arrogance is astounding!!!!

It's people like YOU, that give America a bad name.

I have no objection if you choose to close your account.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:See, this is exactly what I mean about not being able to tell the difference between the argument and the arguer.

Its a shame, really, because this thread could have been an interesting discussion otherwise.

No, of course nobody is being graded on English skills here, but when you go on and on about "communistic" states, use "week" when you mean "weak" and use "are" when you mean "our" it makes it pretty difficult to care much about the argument you are trying to make.

A wise man once said, "Better to keep silent and seem a fool, then open your mouth and prove it."

No further questions, Your Honor, the prostitution rests.

Raph


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Appologies, Raphael96, u must be a pruist.

quote:A wise man once said, "Better to keep silent and seem a fool, then open your mouth and prove it."Think he might have bean referring to wot, waz sed, not how it waz sed, or how it was ritten.

Think you are just being pedantic. quote: No, of course nobody is being graded on English skills here … Then why judge???? Are you an english teacher or spomthng ????

Sometimes you just have to read b/t the lines


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:Nah, I'm not a purist. I just like well crafted arguments instead of petty personal attacks.

Debate and rhetoric can be fun, but there is no reason to take it personally.

Raph


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:FireMike, I ask myself the same questions! Blair has always worshipped and copied US presidents, from the spin doctors to the way he dresses and stands. It's pathetic to watch.

Raph's english language thing is a valid point. If you want to make a point it needs to be understandable. Like lightbug, if you can't get involved in an intelligent, reasonable debate then fine, don't. Feel free to close your mind further, but don't get personal. When you do I chalk up a point for myself Your posts serve only to enforce a stereotype against Americans, but luckily other people (Ray included) help save face. lightbug's rant does not inspire me to reply to his comments, flimsy and uninformed as they are.

Ray, I'm sorry if you think I'm putting words in your mouth. I don't think I am. You however continue to do it to me with your thinking that I blame the US solely for everything.

I believe that quote comes several sources including "The New Rulers of the World" by John Pilger and "Rogue State" by William Blum.

If you reread what I said I didn't say that other countries didn't pollute. I know they do, and I know the air in individual cities is not a very scientific measurement. LA's pretty smoggy, and like London a lot of it is due to the geographical factors of these areas. I stated that the US is the largest global polluter with 35% of global the greenhouse gas emissions. That's a fact. Anyway, it's off topic.

The US blocked shipments of medicines to Iraq. I've read and seen interviews with doctors in Iraq who have to let people die from treatable diseases. The list of items blocked includes baby food, heart & cancer drugs, oxygen tents, X-Ray machines, heart & lung machines,, ambulances, cleaning materials containing chlorine. The last figures I have were October 2001, when about 1000 contracts of humanitarian supplies (worth nearly $4 billion) were on hold. Sources: UN Office of the Iraq Programme itself and 'UN Sanctions Management: a Case Study of the Iraq Sanctions Committee' by Paul Conlon

My reference to the "weak willed" nature of the US was not referring to an invasion of the US by a foreign force (which has never happened) but the well known facts that once US troops start dying in a foreign war the US public starts getting upset and demands a withdrawal. This is a factor in many open discussion in Washington where military action is discussed. Also the US has been proven to have little staying power once the military action has died down and their main political gain has been reached.

My ideas wouldn't cost too much. If you're wondering where the money would come from then wonder where the money for an Iraq war and rebuilding will come from because that'll be far more. The US did have a huge surplus of money, at least until Bush got his hands on it. It's the richest nation in the world and several billion is very little to it.


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Kurobei


member
Location: The Phire Kru

Total posts: 786
Posted:"Man McDonalds is a resturaunt, nothing more. It is not Moobies!! (Watch Dogma for more info) It is not a power hungry devil machine. Your just blowing smoke from somewhere!"

Ray I'm sorry to have to break your idolised US image of the world but McDonalds are bad, very bad, you know when you buy a bigmac? Well, it ain't a bigmac sonny, its reprocessed parts of cow like eyeball and genitals!!! Mmmmmm, yummy!!!

"Isnt it Ironic how all Communistic states call themselves Republics! The USSR was a complete and total communistic state. "What's in a name? Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?" Good ole Willy wrote that."

Ray, the USSR was not Communist, do you know what USSR stands for, well I'll tell you, Unoin of SOCIALIST Soviet Republics. They were a Socialist state.

"I never said that Ho Chi Min wanted to rule the world. Actually it is ironic that the US Embasy is on that street (if it is like I know or care) What do you want me to do about it, send around a petition to ask that the street's name gets changed! What the hell does that have to do with anything?"

Neither did I!! Whoever it was that said Americans don't understand irony was soooo right!!!

"I never said the Jews had been there longer, but look at history the Jews were there before Palistine! Jerusislem is a Jewish city! They were there first. Frankly they could have been put on some uninhabited tropical island for all I care. I am not saying that to be mean just that, sombody would complain no matter what happend."

Well actually they were all living together in Palestine at the same time before the Allies kicked all the Arabs out and commisioned it as the "Jewish National State" and you demonstrate quite openly about how much you actually care for all this, how can you be so passionate and yet claim to not care? No one would have complained if they had just been LEFT ALONE!!!!

"Week willed? The US is not week willed. The Japanesse thought the same thing in WWII Guess what? Beat them. If you think we are week, you are quite mistaken. IMHO the US can not be beaten, destroy our government and destroy our militray, big deal. Your main problem is the people. You cant beat America with out killing every last one. As long as someone believes in Old Glory, America is undefeatable!"

Oh the true brainwashed patriot, but then again you would expect that from someone in the military whatever country they come from!!
Are you seriously trying to tell me that the American people would think "Oooh, some dictator has destroyed our government, our military and our economy, let's take them on"? I dont think even your vast populace is THAT stupid.

I'll tell you a little story (short version): Scientists in Britain have designed a machine to make things levitate using quantum magnetism, they've done it with fruit and a frog. Some loopy cult leader in the US got hold of this information and offered the scientist something like $10 million if he could borrow this machine to make himself levitate in front of his followers and a further $5 million if they would keep it quiet!!!!! Needless to say, the British told him to fuck right off!!!!!

"Stone how much rainforest gets chopped down to make a Big Mac, hell I thought it was 2 all beef patties special sauce pickles lettuce chease on a sessmi sead bun! I could be wrong, but after making the damn things for a few years I thought I knew the ingreadents!"

Well you thought wrong my fine 100% beef eating American friend, get hold of a book called "Fast-food Nation" and read, read it all and you'll never eat fast foods again!!!


whats up with all the limitations?

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Now I'm lost. Say wot U mean Raphael96.

Would U prefer if we took it apart piece by piece, like:

quote: why would we block shipments of medicine?Durrrrr, dunno, sanctions.
quote: it seems like UN and us military are the only ones helping.Who do you think you are???? Helping who? helping yourselves more likely. Just in case you haven't got the message. Most people don't want an arrogant, and selfish people dictating to them. Just because you we born in the USA and can talk, does not give you the right to rule the Universe.
quote: we dont need there oil contrary to what your big brain thinks.. we get about 3% of our oil from iraq At the moment? Thought there were sanctions. And, when you oil run's out??????? etc ETC.

Can't be bothered. And, as a wise man once said: "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience"

Wot discussion? Seened more like pig ignorance and arrogance talking.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
Posted:Can't We All Just Get Along?

Coupla thoughts just occurred to me...so here they are...in no particular order...directed at no particular person...

- If all this bickering is over the worlds oil supply, I HOPE it runs out soon. Then we'll be forced to rely on all the alternate energy sources that have been repressed for the last half century. We have viable, comparable engines that run on everything from alcohol to water. We only generate about one-tenth of what we could via water, solar, wind. It's the oil cartels and governments that keep this stuff from being implemented. Screw oil. Unfortunately, last I heard we had about 50 years of fossil fuels left.

- I don't generally eat fast food, because I prefer something healthier. I had a friend in college who one day developed severe stomach cramps. He went to the ER and was told he had chemical poisoning. Turns out this guy ate nothing, and I mean NOTHING, but McDonald's cheeseburgers. Breakfast, lunch & dinner for 12 years. Turns out the paper filler used in the meat (It's NOT 100% beef) had given him chlorine poisoning. (And by the way, I like my burgers with extra rainforest on 'em )

- Why is everyone offended when a huge corporation acts greedily? They went into business to make money. If they weren't making money, they wouldn't be in business. You think the CEO of Pepsi is concerned about thirsty people? No, he wants to make money. If these corporations really cared about people more than their pocketbooks, why didn't they open a halfway house, or a drug rehab center? Because they like money. Deal.

Kurobei you seem to have quite a grasp of the facts on the whole and seems like a fairly level-headed and intelligent individual. So what are you doing here?

Here's an idea, unless this thread goes back to actually discussing a topic, and ceases the personal threats, namecalling and other juvenille BS, lets just call it quits, 'cause it gets us nowhere. Peace.


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:I agree completely, Prometheus.

Especially about the extra rainforest burgers.

Raph


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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:ENGLISH LANGUAGE - ITS STATE, WHAT'S PROPER, WHAT WORKS, HOW WE USE IT

Raphael96, lightbug, Stone, Raymund Phule,

Raphael96 (for whome pruist might not just mean "purist" but in a French literary pun, "Proust"), it's true, you should post your questions of how we use language in the serious thread

English linguistics symposium

which you'll be amused to find has actually a longer name now, it's 2-1/2 threads in one, and we would welcome your serious, best input there. the thread has recently done something different, but hey, it would be really great, funny, & of serious value, for you to put your great thought & passion on this subject there, i encourage you, Raphael96.

Stone & Raymund Phule already know this thread.

lightbug, wanna duke it with pruist, be our guest, too.

warning: this really is an "English (& other languages, go ahead with French, whatever ya like, Raphael, i discussed Chinese & West African dialects, MikeGinny got us into Spanish) linguistics symposium," much of it at an advanced level.
~

TONY BLAIR PIMPIN' FOR W TO SELL HIM AS A RIGHTEOUS STUD TO THE WORLD

Dom,

Yeah, thanx for your agreeing comment.

still wanna hear from Tony's Queen's subjects on this matter here in this thread, please!


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Prometheus, I suggest bickering is an understatement.

People are getting hot-headed because there is real fear of a rather nasty chemical and nuclear WAR looming. We can put our heads in the sand or we can discuss it.

"Why is everyone offended when a huge corporation acts greedily?" Because it exploitation, like the slave trade.

Plenty of CEO's put back into the communities. It's called philanthrophy. America was renowned for it at one time. A lot of small communities still depend on generosity. Check out the Nebraska model.

There are many of reasons why some people don't have a great command of the King's English. Dyslexia, poor education, underprivileged background to name a few, and I'm not going to hold that against anyone.

Cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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lightbug


member
Location: arizona

Total posts: 321
Posted:This post is mostly directed towards dom and a little off the main topic... sorry..

how can you say dont get personal dom. its not just on this thread but all threads concerning americans. you generalize and insult all americans... every time... you never show compassion or respect for american people that i can recall.. thats why i take it personal, and your such a pompus ass that you probably dont even realize you do it.. your offensive to me and i do not like your attitude. you talk about americans going to war for money and power. you never acknowledge the humanitarian causes.. and uh quoteing yourself about the alleged blocked medical supplies doesnt prove shit to me. thanks for playing though. i have never heard anything like that not to say it didnt happen neither of us really know what goes on thousands of miles in hellish situations we cant even imagine. besides that why are you trying to blame americans for somthing the UN alledgedly did?!? i really try not to get sucked in but i cant stand reading your posts on how americans are always to blame for other countries troubles. at least be fair and point the finger at your own goverment every now and again.. they back us 90% of the time. blair backs us in iraq right now.. so why dont you take a break from bad mouthing americans and show a little brotherhood..
i do take it personally when some one bad mouths americans without restraint dom.
im sorry if i have a little pride in my country and the people who have fought from all nations to keep it alive.

[ 27 September 2002, 09:53: Message edited by: lightbug ]


drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!

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lightbug


member
Location: arizona

Total posts: 321
Posted:quote:Well you thought wrong my fine 100% beef eating American friend, get hold of a book called "Fast-food Nation" and read, read it all and you'll never eat fast foods again!!!

ok, enjoy your blood pudding haha!!


drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I could care less what went into a big mac frankly who gives a rats arse.

Frankly Dom I have never heard of those two guys nor their reports or articles or whatever.

It is not all about oil I have said that from square one. I really really doubt that by the time this decade is over that we will be out of oil. Frankly countries like yours, Japan other island nations who have little to no oil of thier own would be first effected and would already be out of oil crying to the UN.

America has more than enough oil to get us through.

However if you think that we are too dependent on oil then I totaly agree with you. Frankly I would like to see diferent fuels used. My reasons do not include the enviroment.

Did you know that in one volcanic eruption more cfcs are released that human kind has released in all of its existance! I feel the planet is just fine, I will fall back on my religion for to explain why. You dont have to agree just accecpt that this is what I believe.

God made the Earth, God will not let man destroy the earth before it is time for him to return. God knows that the planet, he can heal or destroy it with a thought. Man will not reck this planet no worries there.

I must go for now, duty calls.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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fieryfiend


member
Location: California

Total posts: 48
Posted:quote: America gained alot of prime farming soil after the galciars moved it from the canadian shields down to the middle areas of america. But it didn't give them enough water to be able to farm alot of crops in there. A while ago, guess who came to Canadian dorrs aking for for the rockie mtns. to be destroyed and replaced with a large through to bring them water. You guessed it kiddies, AMERICA Bram, please enlighten us as to this glacial movement and the lack of water in the farmland. I'm really interested to find out how many years 'a while ago' is. If you can find any info on the web about it, it would be great if you could post the address (esp. since I find this claim really hard to buy).
quote: I am just using examples of americas willingness to go to war over greed and corruption as well as power. If you look at any american war in that time frame, they tried to persuade Canada to join them, and alot of the time if Canada said no, they attacked Canada. QUOTE]
So you (and evidently sodium) think that the war of 1812 is a good indication of the future? I guess Canada better start arming itself.
[QUOTE] so fieryfiend, by saying that a war that is in the past (1812) does not say anything about what will happen now, then you should completely disregard the gulf war, cause thats in tha past. Not at all Sodium, but I feel that a war that happened nearly 200 years ago has limited validity on predicting the future. A war that occured within the last decade (or in the last century in this case) will be more valid in that context.
My point is that if you dig back in history far enough you'll find conflict, but it doesn't automatically make it valid.
Rapheal96 in regards to your comments on Bush's intelligence you might be interested to know he graduated from Yale, and has an MBA from from Harvard.


Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Stone, if your refering to FireMike as any of those things, I beg of you, dont say those untill you meet him. The way he writes and talks could be called lingo, style, slang. He is far from dyslecisk, poorly edjucated or anything else for that matter. He may not have a doctorates in language arts or liturature but the man is deffinatly smart as a fire whip!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Just reading through touching up on things I missed.

From Mike Ginney:

"Meanwhile, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters in Poland Wednesday that U.S. intelligence has determined there is a link between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network, but he refused to elaborate. Rumsfeld was attending a NATO defense minister's meeting in Warsaw."

I know this is a quote but, this is why nothing further was said. Ever hear of something called OpSec? It means Operational Security, meaning you dont give out any more info than you absolutly must. Guess what... you cant just blab everything to the enimy, because you damn well know they are listening!

From Stone:
Ray, I'm out of here, but I don't think its fair to put Ho Chi Min, in with Stalin and Hitler. After all, he was a great leader (not a dictator) and pro US until they shat all over him.

Gee I could have sworn that the UN had something to do with Vietnam. I could be wrong though I doubt it! And isnt England part of the UN? I do believe so.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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David Ike's Decaf


member
Location: Quiet Suburbia

Total posts: 17
Posted:quote:its us (civilized countries) against them (sickos who want to destroy everything)
?
quote: Where do you get off saying that McDonalds is money grabbing, sounds to me like your a BK fan!

quote: Man McDonalds is a resturaunt, nothing more. It is not Moobies!! (Watch Dogma for more info) It is not a power hungry devil machine. Your just blowing smoke from somewhere!
How about YOU read Fast Food Nation By Eric Schlosser for more info, it has no pictures though...
Raymund Phule, LightBug and Vaperloc, narrow minded, egocentric, second circuit obsessed war hungry people like you give Americans a bad name.
If your views express those of your entire nation than i fear for the saftey of the world.

[ 27 September 2002, 22:34: Message edited by: David Ike's Decapitated Head. ]


Hi I'm David Ike,You may remember me from such films as Whoops, is that my Lizard? and the weather on ITV.

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