Forums > Social Chat > Dont Attak Iraq Demo!! (london 28th)

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Urban_Culture
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Location: coventry, midlands, uk
Member Since: 21st Nov 2001
Total posts: 89
Posted:NE1 goin to the demo, itz gona b a biggun! stop the war coalition

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Muff_Daddy
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Location: London
Member Since: 29th Jun 2002
Total posts: 45
Posted:Ray!...excuse me, i understand that you would take offence if a was to offend your country....but could you re-read my post right att he beginning, and explain to me where in any of that i even mention the US. thanx for you time!

'Statistics are like miniskirts, they reveal more than they hide.'

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vaperloc...the mighty
vaperloc...the mighty

look @my member
Location: Ft worth Texas
Member Since: 12th Aug 2002
Total posts: 466
Posted:quote:Originally posted by MikeGinny:
Ray, the United States massacred the Native peoples as White Man marched West across the land. We gave them blankets with smallpox on them (biowarfare), among other things.

This is a country built on genocide. Sad, but true.Hmm thats funny it was the english that came and slaughtered the indians .


There are no obstacles only challenges.
Very funny scotty now beam down my pants.
[colour."green"}What would willie do?

AHH theres too many wee leprechauns i cannae squash them all

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I was being sarchastic in my breaking the law terrorist line, being extreem to get my point accross. The way I look at things Sodium, if you hide behind your rights and have no intention of standing up for them when they are threatend then you are a cowerd. My anger comes from the fact that people inside my own country, people that men and women like me are willing to die to protect, dont give a rats ass about their country, they would rather bash it publicly and internationally. Like I said I consider that an attack on not only my country but myself. Thats not an opion thats just the way it is.

Prometheus, your right that millions died in the combined nuke attacks. Well a lot of people, the number I dont know. But why dont you take a look at what the Japenesse did. Look at the devistation in the Philipianes, how about Guam and a dozen or so other islands in ths south pacific. Those numbers dwarfed the number killed by the nukes! Ohh they were all innocent!

War is hell, does it solve anything? Well you seem to live in relitive comfort. It put food on your table. Terrorisim is a country in its own. It is very hard to find a secret organsiation, but when you think about it, how secret is the Iraqi Government?

If war was supposed to be nice it would be called play time!

Rozi dear, the Philipinos have a very similer feeling as the Japanesse, with one exception. We didnt attack them, we defended them from the Japanesse, when America helps we piss everyone off, when we dont we piss everyone off.

David your post was pointless, frankly you would more than likely say that about king kong if he was in office.

Dom if you hide the proof, is there evidence that it exists?

Dom, why would the US cover its tanks with depleated uraniam armour if it is that toxic?

Dom you can buy a nuke for the price of a late modle mercedes! I am pretty darn sure that Saddam has that much money lieing around.

Its ironic how yall all cry about oil, the pacific theater in WWII was about, guess what... OIL! The Japanesse attacked the US becuase we started to diver the oil we were selling them to the war in Europe. They attacked us without provication.

Muff, your first word was Ray, there is only one other guy that I have seen by that name or a name of simmiler looks, however, he has only posted once. If I remember right it was about swinging couple wise. Your right though you never mentioned the US. I didnt say that you did, I was just clarifying why I got upset.

The way I see things, no matter what the US does good or bad, the world frowns on it. You helped country A and not country B, lets fly some planes into your buildings!!

Trade sanctions kill innocents by starvation, war kills innocents by blowing them up. Letting people do what ever they want kills innocents by not interfering. If America takes out one corrupt government they get blasted for not taking out the others, but at the same time they get accused of trying to take over the whole world. It goes back to what I said back on the Anti War thread. Damned if you do, damned if you dont!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:quote: Sickpuppy, the war on drugs would be over long time ago, but people like you enjoy them too much and if your not part of the solution your part of the problem! There is no middle ground, but that is another topic save it for a different post I drink, and I smoke cigarettes, but I DO NOT do any illegal drugs what so ever. No pot, not E, no K, no coke, no meth, no nothing. And I don't appreciate being accused of it either.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:My apologies, for not knowing your stance, but in my defence, they way you said it made me think that you were a user. I do apologies for jumping to conclusions.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Fire_Emanator
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Location: Australia
Member Since: 14th Aug 2002
Total posts: 96
Posted:The only country in History to use a Nuke so far is America.

Free your mind and your ass will follow!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Use in war, your correct to detonate a nuke the list includes the US, UK, France, India, Packistan, Russia, Germany... am I missing anyone?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Fire_Emanator
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Location: Australia
Member Since: 14th Aug 2002
Total posts: 96
Posted:Sorry I meant to say, the only country who has used a Nuke to Kill innocent people so far in History is the US.

Free your mind and your ass will follow!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
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Total posts: 2905
Posted:Your right, so. Cant change the past, it sucks that it came to that.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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fieryfiend
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Location: California
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 48
Posted:quote: there is a decent amount of evidence to support the fact that our own government had alot to do with the "terrorist attacks".Where is this evidence Sodium? Did you actually read this or was it so top secret that its only circulating through word of mouth? I'm curious to hear what you use as a news source (since you debunked the bbc).

quote: War does nothing but destroy lives. Period.
You're obviously not Jewish Prometheus.
"war is hell" William Tecumsea Sherman
(General Sherman)

quote: At this stage please note that the US is the only country ever to use nuclear weapons in anger. Hussein is not allowed even to contemplate a horrible act for which the United States remains not only unapologetic, but even proud.
Dom, I'm not sure what americans you've talked to, but I am unaware of anyone that is proud of that act. "It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." (General Eisenhower) Do you think there might be reason that the US was also the last country to use a nuclear weapon in war? Are you suggesting that we should let (or possibly encourage) Sadam to develop nuclear weapons? If you can find evidence that the US was going to use nukes in Afghanistan I would really be interested in reading about it.

quote: And how the Hell can you make a Declaration of war against a group? A country, Yes. A coupla hundred crazy people? No.
Actually Bush declared that we are at war with terrorism and with states that sponsor and harbor terrorists.
I'm trying(key word) to keep my posts short and to the point and hope others will as well 'cause my eyes get all bugged out reading some of these essays (some of which kinda ramble on and off the topic).


Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Good post, well said.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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master sodium
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Location: carson city, nevada
Member Since: 13th Apr 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:yes fieryfiend, I figured someone would ask my sources, but I saw no reason to post them up since anyone who opposes my stance would say "thats not a legitimate news organization", just in the way I said the bbc's opinion is BS as far as I'm concerned. I think rozi put it best "lies, damn lies and statistics". who is to say my news sources are right, who is to say they aren't. all I know is what I think to be more true.

and ray, how am I hiding behind my rights without being willing to defend them. I dont recall saddam saying he was trying to destroy us, or anything like that. just because we don't know what he has must mean he's gonna kill tons of innocent americans? since when does that happen? I dont know what weapons you have ray, and I'm sure you wouldn't let me into your house to look. does that mean you are about to attack me? I would more then gladly fight for my country if I felt we were justified in doing so. but then I also feel there is no justification for war. all war does is add to the global anger that already is far to high as it is. what will bombing iraq solve? odds are we won't kill saddam, so he'll be more angry, and would then want to use these weapons he might have against us.

[ 24 September 2002, 15:18: Message edited by: master sodium ]


you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I have two desplay katanas (hollow blade and no edge) and one NCO sword that I dont rate yet I won that in a raffle back in school.

Now if you wanted to check where I work, you would have to go through my command, you show me a letter and ID and I'll be more than happy to let you in. I'll tell you this much though you try to get in and I'll put your ass on the deck and you'll have gun in your face. I would do that anyone so dont feel special. I've put a Gunny on the deck because she thought because she had top secret clearence she could waltz in to the armoury. She thought wrong.

You speek against the government, and you have the freedome of speech. You speek ill of the men and women who are willing to protect you and those rights. That is why I say that you are a cowerd and that you hide behind your rights.

Am I saying that you cant say certain things, no but remember your freedome of speach ends when it enters the ears (eyes in this case) of someone it offends.

Argue that last point and I'll point you to those multi million dollar law suits against people and companies becuase they hurt my feelings! I am not saying I am the sort to sue, but just remember your rights end where mine begin.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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master sodium
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Location: carson city, nevada
Member Since: 13th Apr 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:the only person I have spoke ill of is the bush family and other elected officials. I said nothing ill aboot our armed services. its not the army, navy, air force, or the marines who are trying to get us to bomb iraq. I know you dont want to go to war. so please, dont put words into my mouth.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

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master sodium
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Location: carson city, nevada
Member Since: 13th Apr 2002
Total posts: 536
Posted:oh, oh, oh, and I forgot to say something aboot the weapons. how could I forget the weapons.

how do I know that for sure. would you trust saddam's word, of course not. so that must mean that you've got nukes hiding there. and are going to kill me. so I probably shouldn't leave the country, cause I know you would never even consider letting one off in the US.


you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:You sure about that Sodium?

Your a lost cause of conspiracy theorys. Better not leave home or "they" will come and get you!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:I recon what we should do...anyone one seen Ali G In da House? no? well what happens is that all the world parties are arguing at a UN conference about war and all that...so Ali goes off and dumps about 10 oz of the highest grade weed ever created in the lunchtime tea. We should get, Bush, Blair, Bin Laden, Saddam, Mugabe et al in the same room and get them very very stoned...then everyone would agree that peace and love is the best option and so that way there would never be any more wars... problem sorted!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Drugs the solution to all lifes problems!

I think it makes sence, get smarter by killing brain cells! Solve the worlds problems by creating cracked out zombies dependent on a chemical substance to go day to day. And they say I am brainwashed!

At least I dont have to go see the corner drug man to function day to day.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Good thing im not dependant on drugs then aint it.....

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:"...freedom of speech ends when it enters the ears of someone it offends." WHAT!!! That's a load of rubbish!!!! Just because you don't like what someone says doesn't mean they can't say it. By that logic you should shut up immediately and permanently as your opinions offend me. Ahhh! The bliss of peace and quiet. Discussion over, I win

The whole point of freedom of speech is that anyone can say anything, and the point of democracy is that you can say it about the dumb idiots running your own country. The majority of people in the US did not vote for Bush, but must they all hold back from criticising him?

Ray, and I'm repeating myself here, you take things too personally. People hate Bush, his government, those running the country, the Generals. They don't hate you guys lower down the chain just doing your jobs.


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:If you can buy a nuke for the price of a Mercedes why hasn't every rebel and terrorist group bought one and used one? And if Saddam has bought a 6-pack of nukes and got his free key-chain as well why did he try to obtain "significant quantities" of uranium from Africa? Why try to buy uranium to make bombs if it's so easy to buy a complete bomb?

For those interested the UK government has released it's dossier of evidence on Iraq. It's available here. It's a bit of a read, but has some interesting bits. Some of it is old stuff, from the 70s and 80s, making it sound like he was up to evil work then. This was when the West was helping Iraq produce these weapons and the West was also producing more powerful weapons!

However for me it's not that I think Saddam's a nice chap and completely harmless, but I don't believe the best way to solve the problem is to invade. The damage done to international relations, world stability and surrounding countries by Western arrogance and another direct invasion of Arab soil out weighs any possible benefits. The US has shown it's not willing to devote much to the ensure the stability of one country (Afghanistan), let alone help stabilise an entire region that doesn't want it's military on their soil. It's not mature enough to solve a problem properly and still thinks by rattling it's sabres it can enforce order on the world.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:If freedome of speech truly exists then why are there countless lawsuits over what people have said and written?

Dom, those Generals and politicians are not doing their jobs?

Dom, do you know how to ride a bike? Did your father or mother teach you?

If so, do they still hold onto the back of your bike when you ride?

My point is, you gotta let go at some point. We cant afford to hold Afganistans hand for the next centurie. We are still helping them, I bet we will be helping them for the next decade or so.

Atleast we are letting countries goven themselves. We arnt trying to do it from thousands of miles away like so many other countries have, Rome, France, Spain, England. Just to name a few.

Chains I dont know your drug history so I will be general, 99% of all recreational drug users are addicted the other 1% are dead from overdose.

If you feel that this is untrue about you, dont use drugs anymore and spread the word not to use them. The true test is when you put the joint down and tell others to as well, if you cant do that, your addicted.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:When freedom exists there will be no state.

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:There are a lot of lawsuits because you can sue people for defamation. That's different to speaking your mind. If I published an article in a paper that claimed something like: "As a teenager President Bush was a rent boy who routinely got paid to be a sex slave to older men", then he could sue me for defamation. That's different to freedom of speech. However If I said that "President Bush was a cocaine addict and a draft dodger" then that's ok, because it's fact. I can also state an opinion like "Bush's war against terrorism is a thinly veiled plot to bolster support for a weak government with few adequate policies and appease a paranoid nation".

Ray, those generals and politicians are doing their jobs, and in my opinion (shared by people and governments worldwide) they're doing it very badly!

True, you can't hold a countries hand forever, in the same way you can't dictate to another country what it's policies and government should be. However this is something the US routinely does across the globe almost every week.

It is fact that the US almost immediately handed over almost all peace keeping and stabilising responsibilities in Afghanistan to the UN, which is fair enough. However it made very few troops and resources available for this resulting in other countries having to take over. The US put in place a shaky government formed of a coalition of people who do not get on and routinely fight each other in the streets of Kabul. There isn't government rule in Afghanistan, it's a country made up of territories controlled by different warlords most of whom have appalling human rights abuses to their names. This isn't letting people govern themselves, it's invading a foreign country, putting in place an ineffective government and then pissing off home.

"99% of all recreational drug users are addicted" haha! You've been reading that US Army propaganda again haven't you. Just so you know as a qualified medical biochemist I can tell you lots of 'recreational' drugs aren't chemically addictive. A lot are: cocaine, heroin, alcohol, tobacco, caffeine. The others are open to habitual addiction in the same way that people get habitually addicted to orange juice.


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:"At least we are letting countries goven themselves."


Well, thank you very much Raymund.

Sorry, excuse us for breathing, and not being born in the USA. In fact, I suspect we should be groveling for such a magnanimous gesture.

Where do you people get off?

Out of context my arse.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Frankly Dom, I avoid ready any material published by the US Army. The only thing that I even would read from them is my technical manuals and thats only becuase they are for the samn weapon.

Please dont confuse the Army for the Marine Corps, I dont call you Irish do I?

So Dom a little over 200 years ago I bet we could name 13 territories that squabbled amongst themselves, even killed eachother. Look at them now 50 strong. I would hope that Afganistan could do something similer only without the whole slavery bit and a few other things that just haunt our past.

Stone, I dont understand what your post is on. Are you angry becuase we do let people govern themselves or are you angry becuase... *shrugs* I have no clue what you pissed off about. I think that might have been out of context, I was talking about when we do help set up a government we let go and let it take its own course. Sooner or later they have to grow up and be a big country and ride their bikes all by themselves.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Stones post was a little vague...wasnt it

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Well Raymund,

To say it sounds condescending would be an understatement.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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lightbug
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Location: arizona
Member Since: 24th May 2002
Total posts: 321
Posted:was that a nuke or hydrogen bomb..

quote: Yay lets all support uses of chemical weapons!! Lets all get together and praise Maddas (Saddam backwards) for using his people as guini pigs and sending mistles into innocent Isriale!!

Damn that sounds like a fucking hoot!!

Why dont you bring back communisim to?!!

I love how they try to make it a whole world vs Islam. Very shiek. How they have the arab looking woman with a sign over her head. Ya I really thing that is what she is shouting.

straight up!! who in there right mind would try to justify or defend that fruit cake. i dont know why everyone cannot see right through him.. hi smile alone just screams evil crap weasel. and besides now look everything is ok and back the way it should be.. un inspectors are back in iraq were they need to be.. and vaperloc that picture is some funny shit!!


drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!

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lightbug
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Location: arizona
Member Since: 24th May 2002
Total posts: 321
Posted:quote:Sorry, excuse us for breathing, and not being born in the USA. In fact, I suspect we should be groveling for such a magnanimous gesture.

Where do you people get off?

you people?? WTF we are all allies.. its us (civilized countries) against them (sickos who want to destroy everything)

how long do you think your precious freedom would last if the british and americans and isralis werent on the front lines?


drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!

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