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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:I just finished soldering up my 'Hyperlights'. Red, Green, and Blue Luxeon PIC Uber poi cool






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More images with the Luxeons running here


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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:hehe, now that's a prototype! Looking good if a little dangerous with the metal bar. wink



I spun my hyperlights a bit tonight, but Oliver managed a (quite literally) cracking exit from butterfly and chipped the power leads off the board - good shot! Should only take a sec to fix, but highlights that there's some work to be done before they get to Falmouth. No point in having amazing flashy poi to assist in the making of friends if they don't turn on smile



For the record, I did answer your question as best I could biggrin It really does depend on the device you're after. For one of the more popular PICs (the 16f864), there's a bit in the 'electrical specification' :




Non-Https Image Link




See if you can get hold of the part number, then look up the datasheet on Microchip.com.. look the in electrical spec and you should see a similar graph I reckon. Does that help any?



Just watched that vid - holy carp! I look forward to seeing some FNF HyperLight spinning action! Any chance of some lessons? I've been working on some of the stuff you're doing in that vid.. and my versions luck somewhat more clunky / rubbish. Very smooth Poi'ing / staff work indeed!


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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:I'll try to get hold of the code of the PIC and look up the datasheet somewhere in the next week.

And yes, it's very prototype like, but I wanted to start with the smallest possible construction with the smallest amount of hardware (instead of starting with the biggest... and yes it's small)... then work my way to a final design. smile


"Dont know how long, this ones gonna take;
I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:found it:
'16f627'
ilooked up the datasheet but couldn't find the diagram. but it says somewhere 'input voltage 3v-5.5v' so I guess it's ok...

i guess the pic is a little bit old (loads of newer ones available)... but hell, if it does the job it's ok smile

any feedback on the pic?


"Dont know how long, this ones gonna take;
I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:The 16f627 is very similar to the 16f88 I'm using, which just has more memory, and an A/D converter, that might be handy if I want to add some extra things like accelerometers.

I found out that there are 2 PICs that have 3 built in PWM units, which might make programming them a bit easier. I think they might be pretty big chips though (try the feature search on the microchip site).

18 pins are plenty. I've just come up with a better way of selecting patterns, so I've got 10 I/O lines spare.


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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Written by: polarity
I found out that there are 2 PICs that have 3 built in PWM units, which might make programming them a bit easier. I think they might be pretty big chips though (try the feature search on the microchip site).



...but those pics certainly make life a lot easier! smile


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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:another question:
when putting the hardware together... how should i make the exact circuit? do I have to connect the minus-pole nd the plus-pole to the PIC? or the minus straight to from the battery to the LED, and the plus from the battery, to the PIC, then to resistance, then to the LED?

could someone give me a precise description?

thanks in advance


"Dont know how long, this ones gonna take;
I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:A basic circuit diagram :
http://nautilus.homeunix.org/ledpoi/index.php/Circuit


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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:Here's a first picture of what will become poi.


Non-Https Image Link

---3' circle diameter, 2 second exposure, running at 4Mhz---

At the moment I'm trying to have the code completed before I spend too much time making prototypes, so It's just me waving the breadboard around.

Was sweet getting this to work first time. Gotta love that simulator.

Here's a better view of the fade.

Non-Https Image Link


I just need to get a load of stripboard and battery holders, then I can start on some prototypes for Falmouth smile


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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:nice one smile

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:Yeah, nice fade polarity!
What led-lights are you using?


"Dont know how long, this ones gonna take;
I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:RGB Superfluxes. You have to be picky about getting the right wavelengths for pure red, green and blue if you don't use RGBs. They make mixing colors nice and easy smile

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Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted:Wow video looking great, plus all these others. I don't have any electrical knowledge of this sort at all but starting to think about getting it! Well done to everyone clap clap

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:hello hyperlight or any other luxeon user... at first i decided to use superflux leds, but I saw luxeon leds hanging around a store for 10 euro per piece and bought those.
I already bought an heatsink (the guy working in the store said it's a must). And looking at your hyperlight I see you actually removed the led light from the 'star' underneath. You probably done that for the better mixing of colours I guess?
anyways... how's that with heat? don't they get overheated and melt or whatever?


"Dont know how long, this ones gonna take;
I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Actually, I didn't remove them from stars, I bought them as they are now - just the emitters. The heat is fine because I have them all mounted on heatsinks. If you put all three on for a while it gets a bit toasty, but I've certainly never managed to melt anything!

...and yes, the colours mix better if the LEDs (or luxeons or whatever) are closer together.


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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:i've made some serious progress... will post a pic tomorrow if i can find my digicam...

i was running the whole thing @ 4.8 volts (4x AAA)... now reduced it to 3.6v (3x AAA)..... The luxeon leds can take 3.8 volts.
But I was wondering... do i need some form of resistance for the Luxeon leds? as far as i can figure out i don't need any because they can take 3.8v and are running at 3.6v...

but you never know with electro-technic stuff... anyone can tell me if I need resistance?

and btw... luxeon lights are BRIGHT! holy carp!


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
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Total posts: 1228
Posted:The 3.8 volts just refers to how much of the input voltage is lost across the LEDs, it isn't a maximum, and you can run them at higher voltages, so long as there is a current limiting resistor in the circuit. Current that's too high is what fries LEDs, and the voltage can go pretty high before they're likely to burn out (you can plug them into mains if you have a big enough resistor and a rectifier to convert the AC to DC).

Here's the formula for working out how big a resistor you need:

R = (Vs - Vf) / If

R = the value of the resistor
Vs = the supply voltage from the battery
Vf = the voltage drop across the LED (forward voltage)
If = the maximum current that the LED can take (forward current)

If you use a lower voltage than Vf for the power supply the brightness drops, but the resistor isn't needed..


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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:mh, I was just testing my design and realized that i can't turn on 2 leds at the same time...

my circuit seems fine... atm im testing with 2x aa batteries (3volt)... does anyone know how its possible it is not working??

(sorry for spamming this thread :-/ )


"Dont know how long, this ones gonna take;
I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:I was talking about serious progress... my first programmable luxeon poi is finished... still needs to be done alot before i can spin it. but hell, first thing to do now is to assemble my Pic-programmer so I can make a start with programming.

here is my second (mostly finished) prototype:


Non-Https Image Link


Any tips?


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:(Triple post, I know... sorry bout that!)
Still feeling a bit like a bitch for more or less copying Hyperlights project... but hey: better to copy something good, then to make something crappy myself smile

Well, I'm in the run now... finally. The PIC-programmer is up and running. Hardware of the poi is complete too. ubbrollsmile

Now I need something to start me programming... I've read some of the datasheet of my 16f627 pic, but I can't figure out what ports I should be using best...? All the ports have different properties. Can someone/some site be of any assistance?


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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
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Posted:If you've got an external clock generator OSC1 and OSC2 need to be reserved for that.

Switches are best put on the 'interrupt on change' pins RB4:7

In Circuit Serial Programming uses pins RB6:7 but on the 16F627 they don't have to be reserved, as the MCLR pin (RA5) is used to switch them to programming mode.

If you want to add anything fancy like any kind of motion/velocity sensors you'll need to reserve either an interrupt on change, analogue comparator, or some pwm pins, depending on how you plan to interface the device.

LEDs can go on any pin that is capable of bidirectional I/O, which is most of them on your chip (not the MCLR on RA5 which is input only, or +V and GND pins)


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Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:what's an external clock generator? do I need one of those?
i'm now going to put the leds on RB4-6.
at the moment a friend of mine is looking into the programming language. hope he can help me a little bit... meanwhile i'll finish my design... at least I know now that everything is working smile


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:And another question:
i've been struggling with transistors... i can find lots of datasheets on my BD139 transistor... but not how to connect it. can I connect it in this way:

Batteries -> transistor -> leds ?


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:Time for some ASCII art...



Code:

+V

o

______ |

-| |- |

-| |- |

-| |- ____ |/

-| Chip |-o---|____|--| Transistor

-| |- R1 |\

-| |- |

-| |- |

-| |- _|_

-|______|- | |

| | R2

|_|

| _ _

| /| /|

__|__

\ / LED

_\_/_

|

|

o

GND





The transistor, LED and R2 can go in any order between the +V and GND lines. Working out the values for the resistors can be a pain though. R2 is just the current limiting resistor for the LED, which uses the values from the equation I gave above. This helped me work out the value for R1. I used the second form of the formula:



RB = (Vs hFE) / (5 IC)



(4.8v x 135) / (5 x 0.0275A) = ~4700 ohms



I got 0.0275 as the actual current going through the LED, as my R2 resistor isn't a close enough value to get 30mA.



----



If you're still having trouble getting 2 LEDs to light at once, it may be the batteries can't supply enough voltage.



The forward voltage is the voltage needed for an LED to turn on, any higher and the current going through it increases and you need a limiting resistor.



If you can't get enough voltage, maybe because the load on the battery is too high, then there won't be enough for the LEDs to light.



I'm guessing from your figure of 3v that you're using alkaline batteries. Ni-Cd and Ni-Mh batteries have a lower internal resistance, so they can produce their full voltage under heavy loads, while it may drop off under load with alkalines.


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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:thank you so much!
i've been redesigning (yeah, AGAIN!) to fix some problems... i had some heat issues with the luxeons and they could be connected easily, but not properly.
i switched back to superflux... not 1, but 9 of them. Less heat issues, better connection, much less space and almost the same lighting smile

ill make a picture tomorrow... at the moment someone is working on a simple code for me, with notes next to every line saying what exactly it is doing and what variables there are... it's always handy to have some nerd in your group of friends with too much spare time biggrin

do you (polarity and hyperlight) mind sharing codes? if you don't mind, could you send them to my e-mail? ubbangel


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Wow, you go away with work for a week, come back and there's like a millions msgs! I'm happy to give tips if you're stuck, but my code is what's unique to my HyperLights, so it will remain a closely guarded secret for now smile

Looks like you're making some fairly rapid progress on your own! I'd agree with Polarity that the luxeons were probably not turning on because your voltage is far too low. NiMh batteries help a lot - 1.2v per cell * 3 gives you 3.6v ...only problem is that Luxeons draw a LOT of power. I use 4xAA's in my current version. When the Luxeons turn on, the voltage drops from 4.8v down to as low as 3.6v!!

Should be interesting to see your prototypes side by side with my HyperLights - you coming to Falmouth per chance? biggrin


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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
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Posted:
Non-Https Image Link




so... this is basically the design. I will place whole in a tube.



as you can see, i have 2 different kinds of resistance... that's to try to fix an error.



here it is:

once i place the pic in there and place the batteries... red and blue should be BLINKING, but instead they light only DIMMED, constantly... no blinking, or whatever. Now the guy in the shop told me i needed to ground the port of the PIC, otherwise the transistor will just flip open and stay that way... tried that with red but still didn't work. I think i might have failed to connect the transistor properly. i use the BD139 transistor, and connected the right pin to the pic, the middle to the ' - ' of the battery and left pin is the ' - ' side coming from the leds. And with the I/O port for the red leds i've tried to ground the port (see the picture above, it's the most right resistance).



i REALLY don't understand why the light is dimmed, if i just connect the middle and left pin of the transistor the light is BRIGHT.



See...

blue and red dimmed... they should be blinking:


Non-Https Image Link




and then i connect the pins of the transistor with a piece of metal:


Non-Https Image Link




anyone any idea?


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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Jo
Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 517
Posted:Try connecting it like this:



right pin (base) to PIC, through resistor (as you have)

middle pin (collector) to LED (-) then to battery (+) (through resistor)

left pin (emitter) to battery (-)



any good?

Jo.


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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:The emitter and collector pins are connected backwards. Transistors are like a pair of diodes connected in opposite directions, with the base current changing how strongly one diode resists reverse current. They have to be put in the right way for the collector-emmiter current to flow through the diode that doesn't change.

You don't need to ground ports unless they're inputs. It's to stop the voltages floating around and making false signals. If an output isn't connected to anything it doesn't matter if it's not behaving.

The only way a transistor is going to stay open, is if the output is fed back into the base.


I'll see about putting together some simplified code (what I've got looks backwards in some places, as it's been optimised to run fast). At the moment I have a fader, but it only fades the LEDs in or out, then resets and does the same again. To fade in then out in a cycle I'll need to call the fader repeatedly with different settings, so I've got to write a sequencer that sets the variables, then calls the fader.


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Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:Argh... my bro seemed to be programming a bit, and he's the one responsible for the dimmed light :P ... i put a normal prog on the pic again and now it lights bright, just like it should. but it should be flashing, not lighting constant.

one problem solved... another to go...

im gonna try to do what Jo told... hope that helps.

ill keep you guys up to date! i've put much time in this already, and i will not stop before its all working smile



*edit*

@polarity: or did you meant with your last post that changing pins doesn't matter for the transistor?

EDITED_BY: anonomatos (1121073164)


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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anonomatos
anonomatos

enthusiast
Location: Utrecht [NL]
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 389
Posted:I tried switching just like Jo told... didn't help. I'm doing something terribly wrong.



Can some of you help me with a code to let a Led blink on port RB04 (pic16f627)?? I know i'm prolly missing something very very small, but I can't filter the code for just 1 port... so your assistent is MUCH appreciated. atm im using a demo code (the demo code makes 6 leds blink, and it works on my experimentboard on my pic-programmer) that's controlling more than 1 port (one of the ports is RB04)... but like I said, I can't filter the code to make it for just 1 port...



(i hope i made myself clear :S )


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I could fail, but Id rather be a fuckup, than a fake"

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