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Forums > Social Chat > Environmental Implications of spinning fire

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Thistle


Thistle

old hand
Location: Nottingham UK

Total posts: 950
Posted:Does anyone else worry about the environmental damage caused by burning all this fossil fuel and dropping oil derivitives on the ground? I know I do. It doesnt keep me awake at night or anything but I do try to be as careful as possible where spillage is concerned. I know that kero is really bad and kills all plant life cos my back yard has no grass anymore, even if i cover it with seed it will not grow back.I read dangerboy's earlier thread about the ring of fire on the beach and my first thought was "thats cool" but with further thought maybe its not so cool to be throwing fuel on the beach. I'm not preeching to anyone about what they do. After all, we all have our own karma to deal with. I just wondered what ppl's opinions are on this subject.Onelove, Thistlefirepixie

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gάrbǿ


gάrbǿ

addict
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / C...

Total posts: 521
Posted:I do agree with what you are saying and tghe problem is a big one on a world scale BUT what you have to think of if the amount of fuel spilled and burned by ALL performers in the world is only a percentage (a very very small like 00000.1%) of fossil fuel burning and dumping in the world. I know that sounds kinda selfish but why not worry about trying to stop the problem of mass burning and not a couple of litres here and there. We can't do much against major corperations and companies but we can at least make our opinions known. Write to someone in power about it, I can promise you that it will make you feel alot better then putting downa cloth to stop your own tiny spillages.anyone agreepeace outgarbo
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be excellent to each other: safe:

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dangerboy


dangerboy

original member
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 205
Posted:Actually, the ring of fire was on a cement structure near the beack. As a biologist, I know all about the myriad of wonderful forms of life in the sand that are not kero-proof, and would never pour fuel on it, or on grass. Pavement all the way, baby.------------------Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath, fire my spirit

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath, fire my spirit

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TaiGuy


member
Location: Yorktown, VA, USA

Total posts: 127
Posted:Glowstix are watertight, flexy, near bulletproof, and non-toxic! ^__^------------------"Happiness is not a destination, but a method for life"- Burton Hills

The reason communism doesn't work is because people like to own stuff

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Posted:Thanks for posing this question. It's an important issue to address. While I agree that it's a drop in bucket, so to speak. I have a hunch that's what the big polluters say too. "It's not that much." "It's not so toxic." "It's just a little stream." They all justify what they're doing in some way. I also think we need to be mindful and responsible for our own actions. Fuel sprayed out on pavement doesn't disappear. It evaporates into air or gets washed off in the next rain to whereever the drainage is. An alternative is spinning out with plastic bags covering the wicks and conserving the fuel. I also don't feel that great about contibuting my $ to a highly polluting industry when I buy my fuel. I don't feel bad enough that I'm going to stop. Fire has created in me a person doing much more good in the world. There's my own justification.
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I'm not going to give that up. Diana


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Asaf


member
Location: Jaffa, Israel

Total posts: 10
Posted:Yes, good question. And it occured to me when I was juggling fire in a "Greenie" event and found myself shaking the torches next to a tree...but it's true that it's a ridicoulus amount compared to what my friends' cars burn on their way to the beach (I've got a bicycle :P). Furthermore, it's used to create beauty.There's so much *big scale* shit in this world, that I don't think us over-sensitive artists need to really bother about the inevitable (and neglible) side-effects of our artLet there be light

Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

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Finn


member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 341
Posted:I've also spent a lot of time pondering this issue Thistle.... unfortunately I wasn't able to come up with any solutions.
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Tai Guy,True, glow sticks are non-toxic etc etc... They also have a limited life span. When glow sticks die what do people do with them?My guess is most of them end up in the rubbish. What are they made of? Are they PET? Can they be recycled? Does anyone know?[This message has been edited by Finn (edited 23 March 2001).]


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Charly


member
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Total posts: 68
Posted:Well here's what we've done, as a troupe, to help alleviate or at least lessen some of the environmental damage our art may cause:- use of propane in our fire sculptures, rather than wicking - burns *very cleanly* - although the gear is pretty complex to design and engineer so it works safely- use lamp oil whenever possible rather than kerosene (creates less pollutants when it burns)- use as little white gas (aka Coleman fuel) as possible - this stuff releases mega-environmental-toxins! same with naptha (aka lighter fluid - Ronsonol)- put down a plastic tarp on the ground under whatever we're fueling, our fuel containers, etc. Inevitably, there's spillage and dripping. We try to shake out our tools pre-show in the best place possible- ideally over plastic tarps.Me personally...? Well, riding the bus makes me feel like I'm doing my part to use less gasoline, thus justifying the gallon or so of fuel now and then...? (Well, I tried!)Most recently, landed a fabulous new job at the local air pollution control agency. YAY!*C*

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Asaf


member
Location: Jaffa, Israel

Total posts: 10
Posted:as far as I know the stuff inside glowsticks is radioactive.So there you go.Nothing is perfect.But I really wouldn't worry about it too much. it neglible comparing to what one car burns in one hour drive through the city.And it's a reasonable price for the beauty and happiness it spreads------------------Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

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ffirebell
GOLD Member since Dec 2000

ffirebell

member
Location: Aotearoa

Total posts: 44
Posted:Ya, I definitley feel the enviro. implications of this... so I ride bikes n' buses n' walk as a balancer... Glo sticks, I was recycling them in Victoria, B.C., Canada, at this recycled plastics lumber manufacturing plant... I'm sure there's other things like it around the world? ffb

Fairie's wear boots.

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Simos


enthusiast
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 382
Posted:errrr well i don't wanna sound as the bad guy here and i truly try to respect the environment and admire the people that have a genuine concern for it... as far as glowsticks are concerned i think you needn't worry about them being radioactive...i know that the fact that the liquid glows, intuitively 'implies' that it's something toxic and nasty but without knowing too much about chemistry i think they are not SO bad, especially as far as radioactivity is concerned...
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on the issue of spillage of fuel while swinging etc... although i try to minimise it when i swing i have to admit that i am not too worried about the droplets of kero that drop on the grass/ground... i would say that soaking your garden in kero and lighting it up is a wise idea but on the other hand fuel on concrete etc or a few drops of kero on the ground i think is negligible with the trouble that this planet is facing right now - i think the planet and the ecosystem has many mechanisms for taking care of low levels of pollution and burning of fossil fuels as long as it's within reason and controlled...so as long as we keep it to a minimum and 'necessary' levels of pollution caused by swinging i think it's safe to assume that the environment is not facing a serious thread from the fire performers of the world...well please don't get me wrong; it's great to see so many people respecting our planet - i just think that the 'real' and more significant problems of this planet lie elsewhere although having said that i do believe it's down to the individual to restrict the damage...emmm i think that maybe a good question to ask ourselves is 'how would the world be if everyone had the same attitude as myself towards the environment?' if you truly see a brighter future in a world with some billion lookalikes of yourself then i'd say that you are on the right track!!!then again this is just my opinion - there are people that could say 'live-and-let-live' and i don't care about the future...although sadly there are hardly any arguments against this (who is to say what's right and what's wrong after all!) evolution and natural selection does its job and generally makes sure that by definition the number of the people sharing this views are a minority otherwise we just wouldn't be here now (i know i am not being exactly orthodox in a biological sense here so any biologists out there are free to have a go at me and my pathetic attempt to connect gene theory with poi
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) - on the other hand there are no guarantees that there will be people on the planet in the future since evolution is not confined to a particular species (eg humans) and secondly sometimes is not always fast enough to protect life... who knows maybe we are the 'dinosaurs' of the 21st century after all
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- i'd say that strictly speaking a lot of other organisms ,like cockroaches for example, are by far much better survival machines that we are if you look at the organism as such (reproductive rate, life span, extreme conditions tolerance etc)...i'd say that actually the only thing that keeps humans on the planet is their brain capacity...so i guess we know what the outcome will be if we stop using it properly or even better 'planet-friendly'...we still have a long way to go before we can move away from this planet so in the meanwhile, drop as little kero on the ground as possible but keep on spinning so that we have a bit of fun on the way too
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well i'll go now before everyone on the board thinks that i am nuts (if you haven't already)...forgive me it's just late at night and i am really tired and in a weird mood...happy swigning,Simos


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ykaterina
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: east randolph, VT USA

Total posts: 107
Posted:well, we'll know for sure in april...if, after the poi party, my field won't grow wheat, well then, we'll know kero is all bad!
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actually, i'm really glad you brought this up! the very little bit that has fallen in the snow will dilute enough i think not to make too much of a difference, but over time, i think i'd really see the results of the kero in the back field. i think i'll go out and get one of those big blue tarps for everyone to spin out on for the party. also we can put our gear and buckets on it, on the off chance of a spill...i really hadn't thought about it before (which i feel kinda dumb for) but i certainly will change some habits now! i know it's a drop in the bucket for the whole earth, but for my wheatfield, it's much more tangible!
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katja


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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:don't get me wrong I think that plastic and tarps would be okay to minimise impact of kero damage on the ground. just better make sure no one wants to drop their burning fire sticks and poi on the ground or you'll have melted holy plastic =)

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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ykaterina
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: east randolph, VT USA

Total posts: 107
Posted:tee heenah, i was thinking the plastic for a spin-off area. i mean, i know that some will drip otherwise, but i think we'll have to just deal with that. as long as the place we're spinning off is covered, the rest shouldn't be TOO destructive. *humorous dali-visions of blue melted plastic holes in my currently very snow-covered hay field*

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Asaf


member
Location: Jaffa, Israel

Total posts: 10
Posted:Totally agree with simos.PS my mistake. I meant carciogenic (ie. causing cancer) and not radioactive. Just a rumour anyway.The worls with a million lookalikes of me? haven't we go enough problems already?Spin free and juggle for life!or something ------------------Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

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Thistle


Thistle

old hand
Location: Nottingham UK

Total posts: 950
Posted:Thanks everyone for showing me that i'm not the only one to have worries on this issue.Kat, it will be very interesting to see if the wheat grows in your back field cos like i said my backyard is just a barren land these days, but it has taken a lot of punishment (oops!). Keep me posted!I don't claim to have any answers to the problem of the environment but i do wonder what will become of my daughter, her children and their children. if something doesn't change pretty soon then their future looks kind of bleak to me.
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Onelove, Thistlefirepixie.


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ykaterina
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: east randolph, VT USA

Total posts: 107
Posted:actually, i talked this over with the fellow who works our fields - he actually told me not to worry about it. obviously, he said don't spill a bucket or anything, and we'll be careful not to do that, but he said that in a whole hay field, it's really not going to cause any kind of problem. where we're talking about drops here and there, and since the field gets ploughed under ever year (to 12") he thinks there won't be any effect at all. *crosses fingers* i still plan to set aside a spin out area with tarping...to catch the larger amount of it.

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