Forums > Social Chat > Article - Douse It: The exhausted art of fire dancing

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:Ok, did anyone see this one!

Check out this article.

While the author has a point or two (especially about safety), I'd still like to smack her upside the head with a flaming wick (or two) for being such an arse about the way she said it (probably didn't really need to be said anyway).


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Kabukiman
member
Location: Washington, USA
Member Since: 19th Sep 2002
Total posts: 42
Posted:Don't get me wrong... nothing wrong with the topless spinning as long as you are doing it for yourself and you just happen to be around a crowd of people. But if you are doing it to try and attract attention to yourself that's a whole other deal in and of itself.

I wouldn't know... I've never given a cartoon character an orgasm.

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pantsonfire
the man with the flaming pants
Location: Brisvegas, Aust
Member Since: 25th Mar 2002
Total posts: 148
Posted:quote: otehr than that ... *yawns* I'm bored with bored / cynical people

like that one cass, i agree.
However, everyone is entitled to have an opinion, i strongly disagree with the author, although firearts are in a fad stage in certain parts of the world, (and the author does have a valid point) she takes and uneeded malicous tone to the subject. And fire artists/proformers deserve to be respected, true they should be of a certain skill level before they proform, but atleast there getting out there and having a go. but thats just what i think


It's all good

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:*sigh*

So many good things and it's the same story every time........

Something good comes along, and because it's good people want to do it. They start to form little cliques and then after a few months they fancy themselves to be old school thereby giving them the right to start judging every one and telling them how they should act. Then as more people come they think that this is the way it is and then they go through the same process as before until the original concept is either dead or so horribly twisted that it becomes pointless.

Luckily, as with any trend, it will lose popularity and the posers will slowly drift on to the next fad, leaving those who truly are old school to continue on as they had originally intended, without the judgement of some snotty little fuck flying over thier shoulders.

Granted, I haven't been spinning fire for an increadibly long time, but even just in the small fire community in Denver I get to deal with so many attitudes and so much pretention. I see kids running around thinking that they're the hottest shit ever 'cuz they figured out a figure eight with a stick. They use it as some sort of golden calf to make themselves feel big and cool, when in fact, they are just some idiot doing a horribly jerky figure eight.

I, personally, don't even like people watching me spin. I would much rather go off into the dark by myself and light my flame there, just close enough to hear the drums, just me, the flame, and the drum, alone with the universe. But on the other hand, it is really gratifying to go up after some little puke gets done spinning and giving me attitude and blow his performance away.

To the auther of that article, however, I say if you're tired of seeing fire performers, than stop watching, and stop whining!!!


Jesus helps me trick people.

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:LOL @ Sickpuppy about the "stop whining" thing ...

Pele, I know so very well, this is going to happen soon in Europe / Paris as well .. truth is I even think that firepoi fad will end up dying of it's own eccess at some point and only the hardcore will remain ... that's just my opinion though.

Vanize, I doubt Arashi is gonna be back that soon, get an ice cream from someone else, it'll be safer

Shine on
Cassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Magnus
member
Location: Bath, UK
Member Since: 5th Sep 2002
Total posts: 279
Posted:I liked the article!

The best part of poi is getting lost in the fire, and no-one can take that away from us.

Fire will always be hypnotic; something to do with the fact that it entertains all the senses - the brightness, the heat, the sound, and the smell.

I wouldn't care if everyone in the world did poi. There would still be performers who completely took my breath away.


Magnus... pay it forward

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:the smell, ahh the smell...
yeah i too only did fire a couple times at BM, in the morning, as the sun came up, as i came down, out on the playa, when the music was just soooooooooooooooooooooooo good i couldn't EVEN stand it for another second... that was it. i do fire all the time, i was ready to see somebody else do all the work. it was nice.
man dj freaqnasty rocks the party.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Huia
member
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 20th Sep 2002
Total posts: 61
Posted:Hey!Im rather new here and would love to say hey to some one...so hey!

Loving your life...loving your planet...loving yourself.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:and i can see this is getting bigger than i can feasably handle. we're just gonna haveta "settle" for a bathtub full of nutella ice cream with cherries and 300 little wooden cutout spoons...

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:To all the people, especially newbies, who are getting offended...don't. I think you missed the point of the article. The author never said "Don't Spin", she is saying to leave performances up to those who are experienced in them, and if you want to perform, approach someone who is experienced and learn how to put on a show to engage an oversaturated audience. In summary it was mainly spin to your hearts content, just stop trying to get attention for it.

The more I think about it, the more I realise how important this article is. This is an audience member. Someone who has witnessed the evolution and growth of a subculture enough to be able to determine what is good and what is not from an audience viewpoint. If you take that lesson, and push your creativity harder, then you become better than you are now and you can offer that something more she was talking about wanting to see. Listening to things from the audience, good or bad, is never bad. It's all how you use the opinions of her (and people like her) to improve your own performance that will eventually get her eyes to open a bit more welcoming towards us.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:I agree with you Pele ( ) that it is very important to listen to the audience and do agree on many valid points of this article... I however do not like her tone of speech at all and find it fairly non constructive and self centered whereas she could have made a better point not trying to sound so clever ... just my opinion though

shine on
cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Ignis Devoco
member
Location: Prato, Italy
Member Since: 14th Dec 2000
Total posts: 67
Posted:Although I think this article may have had some valid points...Having had a private conversation with the author and done my own research on her, I have found that this person in some cases does not know what she is talking about.

She no longer lives in Seattle and wrote the article three months before it was printed and did not bother to do any research further on the scene. The only group she mentions (pyrosutra) just happens to be the group she was assigned to do an article about previously for an online mag and interestingly enough happen to be the kind of group that writhes around on the floor with there tops off and accentuates the more sensual sexula and sometimes ritualistic side of fiore..the same reasons she points out in the article as negative...and Pyrosutra is great. She mentioned that she finds hoola hooping to be a cool trick becasue she herself is a hulahooper.

I agree that newbies shouldn't be gettin oput there and charging for their services but I am afraid that this article might keep people from exploring their creative side through fire...

We have 65 students in our class...for some it is jut sa hobby but for others it's their art....

I do not think this article ws done well.. She did not do her homework and did not research all aspects of fire art...Seattle has a rick fire arts scene and it has it's negatives...but this woman is obvious in her ignorance...

For a fabulous article on fire art in Seattle read
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/29710_firespinning.shtml
br>
Love & Light,

Donia


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aimeceleste
member
Location: Seattle
Member Since: 10th Jul 2002
Total posts: 19
Posted:Speaking as a Seattleite, there are a lot of really bad people out there who do go and spin at parties. People you just want to smack and tell them to go home and practice. I don't perform publicly because I don't feel I am good enough to really WOW people. And I could empathize with this author a little. However, she didn't mention all of the great troupes we have here...Ignis Devoco and Pyrosutra being two...but there are several other really great groups in the area, who consistently do really great shows. Who knows? She didn't do her research, and the end product came out, well, unbalanced.

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Nephtys
Nephtys

resident fridge magnet
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2002
Total posts: 835
Posted:Hey Cass, I guess you and I are just lucky to be living in continental Europe which is, as ever, behind on all the trends, so we can still be hip and cool and avant-garde I'm a newbie myself, still haven't tried fire but am having heaps of fun with glowy and flappy poi, and I can't say i'm discouraged by the article. The effect the author talks about is what always happens when a subculture becomes mainstream, be it in music or sport or art or whatever - and this too, shall pass (how many people out there are still doing Tae Bo? ) As someone here already mentioned, when the fad passes, the people who were there from the start and who truly love firedancing will still be doing it - I intend to be one of them! (ok, even if i can't quite claim to have been there from the start )

everyone's unique except me

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I think it's all already been said. Generally I agree with the article. It was a little harsh but points out the truth that just spinning fire doesn't make you an exciting pro performer.

Because it's a pet peeve of mine I like the quote "Taking off your shirt does not make your show better. It doesn't make you look more talented."


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rftek
member
Location: college station, tx
Member Since: 26th Oct 2001
Total posts: 101
Posted:hi yall, just read everyones comments and the offending article. it [the article] wasn't as mean or critical as i thought it was going to be. the author did make some good points regarding safety and oversaturation of the "market" from a audience standpoint.

i was at a rennaisance festival this past weekend and talked for a bit to a vendor selling streaming poi (and contact juggling balls). they are pursuing the public school PE market to sell their poi. kids are getting awfully chubbily these days and if poi would help to get em moving around then thats a good thing.

i'm not worried about the fad stage of poi, the core will always be here. branch out into related things if you feel threatned by the influx of newbies. start a nunchuk or 3section fad and see how long the masses will hang with that.

i take it as a challenge for myself to keep chains interesting, develop your own style and you will stand out. you have to keep moving forward somewhat or you will undeniably stagnate.
don't be stale! the stench of moldy moves will corrode the nostrils of our audience to all of our detriment.

that being said, i love all of you! this fire community connects us to each other, to our ancestors, to the newbies,the oldies,the futurities. hell, the newborn can feel the flame too.

peace yall

matt


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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Because it came up a second time on here..March 2003---
*bump*


And my opinions stand now more than ever, actually. I think this article is awesome and actually serves to be quite positive for the serious performer who wants to listen to the desperate pleas of the audience for something fresh, and then works to deliver it.
Whether or not she did her research into the Seattle scene means little to me, as I know there are wonderful groups in Seattle. The bigger picture she was talking about it that this is something that is really global in scale and having just now re-read the article I will stand up and cheer for the author for bringing it to light..BRAVA!!! And for performers who don't take it to heart, well....*shrug*..to each their own but I feel that not listening to something like this is truly what causes the medium to no longer be an art but a stagnated fad.

[ 04. March 2003, 04:00: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Biomechanoid
member
Location: Tampa-ish, floorida
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 15
Posted:I'm wondering if I'm doing poi for the wrong reasons; I started it because it was fun, and looked cooler than hell, but that article is making it look like all poi performers are all about getting paid for shows...

Am I wrong approching poi from a hobbyists standpoint rather than a stage artist's?

Granted I'd kill to have someone help me with a one on one session, but I find that half the fun is discovering the "so THAT'S how its done!!!!!" of a hyperloop or backwards weave


off-topic.net > *.*

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:BM...I think you are coming at it from a perfect point of view. You are having fun. What the article, and many of us subsequently, were saying is that there is an over run of hobbyists who use poi as a gimmick to make a quick buck without substance to show. Being a hobbyist is fantastic, as long as you are doing it becuase you love it, then all is right in your poi world sweetie!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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aimeceleste
member
Location: Seattle
Member Since: 10th Jul 2002
Total posts: 19
Posted:"The author is most likely either an ex-spinner who was an attention hog and decided that having that many spinners around stole his/her thunder OR a non-spinner who is envious of spinners and is trying to compensate."

Somebody said this...Knowing OF the author, she's a hooper. Check out her weblog, www.electrolicious.com, and you will learn all about her obsession. I guess hooping is the new wave guys, we'll just have to give up poi, etc!

(okay, forgive me my sarcasm.) I do know of the bad performances she mentions, but she forgot to give props to the very good Seattle groups up here. I think her article, while true and well-thought-out, was too one-sided. Maybe it's because she doesn't love fire like we do...Maybe it's because she hoops, and maybe she just got mad after one party and wrote this down, then somehow managed to sell it.

Just my thoughts on the issue.


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poiaholic22
member

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 531
Posted:I think that the author of that article made a terribly good point that the more experienced spinners need to take into consideration.At a small event I went to recently there was some fire being spun and the only problem I had with that was that out of 7 or 8 spinners,there was only one spinner who really stood out from the rest.Not that there is anything wrong with spinning because you enjoy it or doing it for your own reasons but we have to bear in mind that when you spin poi or staff or juggle or whatever, you are performing.Or at least that is the way I feel. I spin because I love the art of poi but when I do in a place where people can come and watch I want to entertain them as well.

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BlackFireJack
member
Location: Bergen , Norway
Member Since: 16th Dec 2002
Total posts: 167
Posted:Funny article
Intelligently written and with a genuine respect for the poi-masters.....and I have to agree that it can be to much of bad fire-performances sometimes

If anyone is surrounded by other poi-folk's...come to Norway......A brand new almost untouched marked......just come in summertime
winter-spinning is not as fun as it sounds like...


I like Fire.. :)

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Fire By Riz tm
member
Location: tampa fl usa
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 212
Posted:She made one great point in her article."Take away the fire and what do you have ? " How many out there can do that and still have something people will watch ?let alone pay to watch.
She does need to get real though sex does sell just not in this arena but in every other arena.Is a sexy female barely dressed playing with fire art?I dont think so but I damn sure like watching them I say less clothes and more fire.

To be honest I think the chicky that wrote that article lost her boyfriend to the barely dressed sexy fire dancer and now her pantys are in a wad over it all.

BioMec
check out the group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlaFireArts/
br>most of us are around the tampa area we meet every now and then on clearwater beach. I am sure one of the master poi people out there will help you out ..


I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

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Sepa
member
Location: London
Member Since: 24th Apr 2002
Total posts: 184
Posted:I thought the article was great, too.

And it confirmed me in my amatuer status that I don't like performing and am not good at it, but it doesn't really matter because I poi becuase I love doing it.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:In my personal opinion, when you spin for anyone but yourself you have lost all self resepct.

Now understand that there is a difference between preforming as a job/carrer/hobby and preforming because it is the hip thing. I am refering to the hip thing, The new Yo-Yo BS. The look at me look what I can do attitude kills everything, music, sports, computers you name it.

You can still spin for youself when you do it as a job and what not, you can even still spin for yourself when you are with your friends in a public place spinning. If you and your lover decide to go spin and you spin for her/him even then you can spin for yourself.

However when all you want is someones attention, or just want to jump on the next cool band wagon then that is when your selfrespect is gone.


This writer, obviusly, doesnt know a thing about the tradition of Poi nor where it came from.


A good reporter will look at both sides of any story. Objective reporting is the key.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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