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Forums > Social Discussion > Bad news for cannabis smokers

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4363075.stm
br>
frown

What are your opinions on what has been done?


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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
Posted:well, i can see how pot could enhance already existing psychological problems in people.

but saying that it causes them, is a step to far.

*puff*


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Is it that people with predispotion to the problem tend to smoke rather than smoking itself being the cause. Would a few of these people have had episodes anyways?

We were discussing the use of cannibus in retirement homes to make the twilight years more interesting and make care of the elderly possibly easier. If you are 70 and knock 5 years off your life but are conten would it be worth it.
My inlaws worked in old age homes and she has independantly come to the conclusion that her senile retirement will have a bong and a verandah.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:I had been told that healthy people wernt affected much. Twas only the already mentally unstable who became worse. I dunno tho. Ive never met a stoner with psychosis shrug

The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:people who are already mentally unstable shudnt do weed, its just stupid, but if ur perfectly ok then its fine smile

Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:thats true all true but cannabis - when over used (not sure exact amounts but i think its about a few joints a day) can cause comas and serious health issues.



i think that while already being mentally unstable and smoking makes it worse i think if you smoke enough of it will start to have mental effects



that said i think it should stay were it is or be down graded again - its less dangerous that alcohol for instant affects and no worse than tobacco - if it was liscenced carefully it would work well



*searches google for relative info



ok didnt find what i was looking for BUT



cannabis does have a higher tar content so your more liekly to develop respiratory problems and induced psycosis can last a few days after heavy use

EDITED_BY: linden_rathen (1111263164)


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:And yet tobacco and alcohol are legal.

Mystifies me.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:alchahol is more dangerous than weed IMHO.


U r more likley to kill sum1 (in a car, fight etc) under the influence of booze than weed. I dunno, is that right.. it sounds right, but I may have made that up confused


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:weed is chillin, but beer can make sum peeps v aggressive so sounds right to me

Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:i'd argee with rabid

but the flip side is that people binge less on cannabis - too much cannabis can make you hallucinate and have VERY slow reactions which makes you just as unsafe. people have done lots of reallly nasty things while hallucinating


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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:bad trips. Ive heard alot of BS about Bad Trips. There are all kinda urban ledgends. Like the wasp one and so on. shrug mayb they were just made up 2 scare kids away from hallucogenics

The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Alfred
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

Alfred

Altyd Brandend
Location: Orange County, California, US...

Total posts: 149
Posted:People get drunk and rob liquerstores and pick fights...people get stoned and wont leave the couch and might raid the fridge.I think i should be clasified with unprescribed pain killers and anti-depro's (if they dont wanna legalize it) But to make it an arrestable offence just wastes the police's time.They should rather get the drunk people off the road and out of the bar fights.
*drops 2 cents*


Spinning makes my world go round

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Bad trips happen on alcohol, too. So do flashbacks.

See, they're caused by traumatic experiences, not by a given drug. My dad never did drugs other than very moderate alcohol consumption and had flashbacks from WWII all the time.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:*picks up 2 cents*
Totaly agree with alfred. Binge drinking has become a real problem in blighty. We r getting into all kinds of messes. we need 24hr pubs to prevent a drunk congestion in the streets at 2 in the morn.. screw what the daily mail thinks


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Moondance


member
Location: Haarlem,Netherlands

Total posts: 65
Posted:Hello people;

Let me help you out with some Marihuana info.

Marihuana does not cause anything mentally but it makes everything stronger, sight,thought,emotions,hearing,colours, feeling, you are more perceptive to the different kinds of energy.
So when you are not feeling well, you shouldn't use any drugs at all. So the same goes for Marihuana.

Linden Rathen: a few joints a day does not cause coma's or other deadly health issues than sigarettes.

BUT when smoked pure, people can have serious health improvements because they can use cannabis as a medicine against several illnesses, symptoms and pains. People do mostly forget that most medication is more poisonous than healthy...(Natural)

Offcourse there is a big difference between alcohol & Cannabis.
After vijf joints a person can still move through traffic, move your body properly, though sometimes feeling fysicly tired, or having the urge for sugar. Like alcohol, cannabis lowers the sugar-rate of the blood, but in a much slower way.
People get drunk because their sugar gets way too low.
But with cannabis you get hungry too and not just thirsty, so it is easier to control.
When people go wrong on marihuana just give them Sugarwater, same goes for many drugs (inc. mushrooms,
alcohol,mdma,speed,acid)

To Hallucinate is not a symptom of marihuana use, that has more to do with the persons view and sensebility for daydreams & trancendental travelling. Only when used in heavy forms, pure and with amounts of atleast 10 to 20 grams people can suffer from hallucinations caused by marihuana, but well that goes for every intoxication excl

Here in Holland the legal amount to carry around/buy every day is five grams, still i encounter a lot of people who use more than that daily, live their life and do not suffer from mental diseases or any other fysical problem then the usual ones of smoking.

Most of all Marihuana is a pleasant natural drug which gives you a relaxed feeling and makes your mind think a little more about things. Next to that you won't find as much aggression when people use cannabis then people who use harddrugs...
(we still have our opium list with soft & harddrugs) peace

Hopefully i cleared some of your questions, when needing more info go to: www.hempcity.nl (site of local shop in my city)

Greetz Marihuana-Moondance


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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:I hate when people generalize and clump people and findings -.- Saying pot would make every mentally unstable person worse is like saying drinking alcohol will make anyone angry. It's simply not true for everyone.
I am considered by what ever classification system they use, by my psychiatrist and doctor to be 'mentally stable' in the sense being user here.
Smoking pot does not make me a nervous wreck. It doesn't make me paranoid or hear/see/feel more hallucinations than I would see or hear normally, which isn't that common anyways.
When I smoke weed I go very relaxed and often like to meditate or just lay down.
But that's just me smile


And if any of you don't know, vijf = five for the non dutch people out there (Moondance talked about how a person could still do everyday things after 5 joints).


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Moondance


member
Location: Haarlem,Netherlands

Total posts: 65
Posted:By the way I work in healthcare and i worked in houses/institutions for elderly,psychiatric and mentally&fysicly disabled people where in some cases people would smoke marihuana instead of heavy medication, without any problems.

So however you look at it marihuana is a natural medicine which can be used in a good way and in a bad way just like any other medicine. Because of its relaxing effect on the nerves and brainflow(Alpha, Beta,Delta and Tetra waves) it can be really nice to use it even when you are psychiatric...

Be Positive...


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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:moondance when i said several joints a day can cause serious health problems i mean every day over a long amount of time - im not sure exactly how many it is. i do agree that cannabis is no worse than alcohol. it just has different effects and heavy users of cannabis can end up with serous health issues. but so can alcoholics.
used in moderation i dont see why it shouldnt be legal and sold under a similar system as to Amsterdam - ie liscenced cafes can sell it but it must be smoked on site and with in certain limits


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_pOp_
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands

Total posts: 593
Posted:hmmm, i think to make people smoke it on site seems like a bad idea... that way you make it into a closed scene, you'll brand them as social outcasts. they should be free to use (not abuse) it where ever they feel comfortable to do so... just like alcohol or cigarettes. as long as it doesn't bother those around them (I don't like people smoking in public places).



*edit:

just for the record: I neither smoke, nor drink or use any kind of drugs.

EDITED_BY: Parliament Of Peace (1111275625)


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

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Moondance


member
Location: Haarlem,Netherlands

Total posts: 65
Posted:5 grams that was immortal, i mentioned it because that is just the legal carry around with amount daily. Linden rathen thought that about 5 joints a day would make people go in a coma, had to clear that. I didn't mean "the still being able to do stuff" after only vijf jointjes hahaha I smoke more daily myself! Work in a coffeeshop too smile

Every drugs has its own way of using and every person has its own way of experiencing things in life, when u know what it is and feel sure of taking it, you can't go down on your own mind. Pitty that in most cases people don't know what they take and because of that can't controll themselves and don't know how to achieve the same feelings without the use of drugs at all... (maybe that's something for a new thread smile Natural High )

Greetz Moon


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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:Linden, I only know of 1 recorded case where someone died directly from Cannabis, and that was after a dozen joints a day for over 50-60 years.
More people die from less cigarettes than that, in a shorter time span.
Point of the Matter is, Pot is less dangerous than alcohol and Cigarettes, if we were to find a way to limit weed, like we have the no driving with a BAC over (insert your local figure here).
And I agree with Linden, there is no real reason why it shouldn't be legal.
I believe the only reason why it isn't is because if they got rid of the laws against growing it and possession then everyone would be able to grow it, and they wouldn't be able to monitor and tax it.
It'd be pretty hard to grow enough tobacco for enough cigarettes, and equally if not even harder to make a home distillery to make your own booze. Pot would be easy to grow so alot more people would do it and the goverment couldn't tax the pants off it.


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:I always thought the only reason weed was illegal was becaause hemp is such an awsome crop (cord, fabric, plastic, paper, health food, ... can all be made form hemp) I heard that the cotton and petrochemical industry in america started up a propaganda campaign to make it illegal to grow hemp even tho the propaganda was centred on the effects of THC, of which hemp has very little or none.

I believe the first car engine was designed to run on hemp oil and that hemp was once the biggest cash crop on the planet. Diesel engines can certainly be run on hemp and you can even get better performance from it than with deisel.

I'm guessing that the government has been lobbied by the petrochemical and cotton industries again since the declassification. I'm willing to bet that the 'scientific body' which made these new findings is primarily funded by some big corporation that doesn't want hemp back on the market.

A couple years back i seem to remember that in america they banned all hemp products but i think people protested and sorted it out.

All just hear say of course, but i wouldn't put it past 'em.

As for canabis, sure there are bad sides to it, but worse than taking antibiotics? That sh1t could bring about a 'superbug' that wipes out the whole race. There have already been hospitals closed in england and demolished for being so badly contaminated. Personally i think news like this is only there for one perpose, to distract us from the atrosities our government are comitting, they don't care if you smoke weed because no stoner is ever gonna rise up against them. Taking pills on the other hand they don't like because it counters the divide and conquer technique.. anyhoo,


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Moondance


member
Location: Haarlem,Netherlands

Total posts: 65
Posted:The long use of cannabis has its effects(veins), but not more than a daily used unnatural product like food, chemical medicine and other things which most people do not consider being harmful, when they get cancer/diabetic for example from wrong food. Unnatural things manipulate the bodycells, like a microwave does with your food, changing the genetic structure.
But still every body has its own way of dealing with things and its own fysical weaknesses always depending on more than just one thing...

Enough for now, greetz


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: Moondance






BUT when smoked pure, people can have serious health improvements because they can use cannabis as a medicine against several illnesses, symptoms and pains. People do mostly forget that most medication is more poisonous than healthy...(Natural)





STOOOOOOOOOOOOP the presses!



Evidence for this huge blanket statement?



Or are you just towing another bandwagon line because it's cool to oppose modern medicine?



The original hippies were free thinkers. Too bad so many people follow blindly. frown



"All drugs are poisons. The dose determines the difference between a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsus, c. 2000 BC


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:lightening - anything is a poison in the wrong amounts but id agree with you cannabis is no wonder drug - just useful for helping people with certain nerver problems (like MS) and for pain relief.
and super bugs will arise with or without antibiotics - if we didnt use antibiotics youd just get killed by a weaker strain of the bug in question.


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Moondance


member
Location: Haarlem,Netherlands

Total posts: 65
Posted:Lightning, marihuana was originally a herbal medicine in the first place not a drug, by this i don't say it ain't poisonous. Nor that it is a wonder drug, but i know from experience that it can be beneficial in several medical cases, mostly instead of chemical medication or to solve symptoms people get from their medication. So the only point i tried to make with your copied piece was that there are as well good sides of marihuana, so please try to get your peace back and read it over what i wrote then you'll see that i consider all drugs to be poisonous when used wrongly.
Besides that i personally don't like chemical medications because my body can't take most of them, so i'm forced to use fytotherapy/homeotherapy when i get sick anyway. My reference to medication in a bad way is for chemical ones.
Personally i don't smoke cannabis as a medicine but i know enough people who do and are really helped by it even after so many centuries...

Greetz moon


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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Haha wow, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread, now isn't there? Lets see here...

Canibis does not have any deadly effects. There has never, EVER been a reported case of death due solely to canibis use. Never. Ever. Im willing to bet that you got that little foolish bit of information from the monkey study, where they strapped masks on them and pumped about the equivilent of 50 columbian strength joints into their lungs in about 5 minutes. When they eventually died and were examined, large amounts of tissue damage in the brain was cited as "proof" that it caused brain damage. Besides the issue of a completely insane amount used in the study, theres also the fact that smoke was ALL that was pumped into the masks. They died of lack of oxygen, much like smoke inhalation, not marijuana.

In addition, numerous studies have shown that marijuana smokers (I think it was a canadian study) actually drive BETTER under the influence. The reason is that though the reaction time decreases, the amount of focus and precaution increases drastically to compensate, a nice little effect already cited (That it enhances focus, etc.)

In addition, people alweays say that marijuana has more tar in it, which may be true, however it is not the same case as tobacco. The difference between the two is that cigarettes absolutly destroy the small air pathways, where most of the respiration and oxygenation of the blood occurs... When those get blocked, you die. Marijuana on the other hand effects the LARGE pathways, to the effect of about 10x worse than cigarettes, which people love to cite. Cigarettes do next to nill damage in this area. Here's some math for you... what's 10x0? This "evidence" is bull as well. Marijuana does not damage the small air ways the same way tobacco does.

Hemp is an extremely useful product in its own right that would put the paper industry among several others out of business overnight if legalized for industrial purposes... but I digress as this isnt relavent.

As for the mental illness thing... corelation is not causation, for one thing. Marijuana is a psychoactive drug. So is prozac, and every other antidepresent, etc. They have their advantages and their problems depending on how someone reacts to it. If you start feeding psychoactive drugs to people who are unstable, of course they may get worse. This is like feeding antidepressents to someone without actually giving them any kind of therapy. Over long term use without addressing the underlying problems, they do more harm than good because the body begins reacting to dopamine and other chemicals differently. Marijuana is a dopamine stimulant as well, and in a lot of ways acts like an antidepressent. Smoking excessivly is like eating a bottle of prozac when you should only be taking a pill or two.

I know many potheads. Some of them do degenerate because they begin using it as an escape instead of recreation. Not that this is surprising though... redirecting emotions in order to surpress them instead of dealing with them is unhealthy no matter if you are using drugs, or something else. This is like saying that we should make something illegal, say video games, because someone (say a kid living in colorado) reacted poorly to it. And with all the beneficial industrial and health related things of marijuana alone makes it more usefull than video games... but then I digress....

If you have problems dealing with reality, something that makes reality better can easily help you become more deluded. Oh and I'd check who funded that study by the way. I find that you can predict fairly easily what a study is going to "find" depending on who is funding it. And statistics can say whatever you want...

Moderation is the key to everything. If a person doesn't know that, they are only going to hurt themselves no matter what (unintentionally). Don't categorize those that can do such things in moderation with those who can't.


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:"To Hallucinate is not a symptom of marihuana use"

Finally.

A refreshing breath of air from someone who knows what they are talking about.

smile

(Ive been getting pissed off with people saying weed is a hallucenogen, i was starting to think all the stuff I got was crap wink )


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Domino
SILVER Member since May 2004

UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK

Total posts: 757
Posted:Of the many points that bubbled to the surface of my mind when I read this thread, this is the only one I can remember : /

Prohibition -- There's other stuff on that site too if you scroll up


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:*wonders at what point he said cannabis kills* i said over use can cause coma's. which is true - and i still agree with you that it should be legalised. my point was that saying it has no mental effects is rubbish - any drug chemical or organic that affects the mind in the short term will affect it in the long term as well.



you affect the mind by changing what chemicals are released into it - these make different bits of the mind work in different ways - do this enough and you will change how the mind works permanently - and cannabis is a hallucinogenic but only in large amounts (as im pretty sure i said) and only in some people. like all drugs it affects different people in different ways.



and beefy you said it - look at who funded the reports - youll find a lot of the pro stuff id funded by pro campaigners and the anti by anti campaigners - i think you'll be VERY hard pressed to find an un biased large scale and accurate study of cannabis use and its affects. while correlation doesnt mean causation its still means its making something happen.



edit: ok ive searched WHO (world health organisation) and i retract the thing about coma's i think it may be rare cases or something

BUT i still think driving under influence of cannabis is a bad idea

but is should still be legalised

this is the link to the WHO site on cannabis

who cannabis site

EDITED_BY: linden_rathen (1111349783)


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mrFlibble
SILVER Member since Mar 2003

Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK

Total posts: 455
Posted:i was looking at wikipedia only the other day at its articles on cannabis. It was very interesting learning that the receptors that cannabinoid chemicals interact with are not spread evenly through the brain, and in the medulla oblongata, the part of the brain that is responsible for respiratory and cardiovascular functions, they are almost absent. This is why a relatively large amount of it wont kill you by interfering with your breathing or heart.

disclaimer: i'm lazy and take wikipedia at its word and dont check its facts before regurgitating them smile


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