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Forums > Social Discussion > Bad news for cannabis smokers

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4363075.stm
br>
frown

What are your opinions on what has been done?


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:"cigarette smoke has a much less noticable effect than the person next to the smoker becoming stoned."

Cannabis affects you more than tobacco does....


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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:That was my point... did I word it badly? Sowwy smile

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Mentally..

so even if you passivly smoke the same ammount of tobacco as weed, you would only notice the weed.

Comprende?


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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:Yes, because that was my point! That cannabis smoking allowed in bars/cafes would be a trickier issue than passive ordinary smoking because of the effects.

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Exactly!!!!

wink


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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:Oo, I hate it when you're obviously bored tongue

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Its my thread.. I can drag it off topic and shout at people when they do..

smile


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house_of_mill
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

house_of_mill

old hand
Location: Manchester England

Total posts: 896
Posted:Very True Ucof

(Waiting for a shouting)

Do you live on line?


*Thats one of my favourite Nurseries over there,*

Roman, Trippie Hippie,On the way back from Play Festival

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Any ideas what the LibDems said about looking into the possibility of allowing people to grow cannabis at home for personal use?

House: No. I live at home but im on line all day every day at my computer. wink


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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:ubblol

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:have to agree with the LB they should be focusing on the worser things out there that have been proven to be more harmful in more ways than 1.
as for the mental health issues they help mine and a hell of alot better than the chem's the docs try and shove me on. if it's a choice between popping sleeping pills or a happy stick before bed well it goes without saying hehehehehehe
all i can say is if it works for me then i am sorry but i am going to put the docs/government out of pocket i would rather pay for something that works.


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Oh..

apparently, the Government are set to change the laws on Mushrooms too now...

http://forums.virtualfestivals.com/forum...p;#entry1137599


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.oO*Sprout*Oo.
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

member
Location: Aarhus, Denmark

Total posts: 57
Posted:Woops *Post moved to the Pychedelic mushrooms..... thread* ..


EDITED_BY: .oO*Sprout*Oo. (1112975513)


ALL IS FULL OF LOVE

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:I can't give reference for the monkey study I'm afraid...

Go find a copy of the "Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herrar. Its the most common literary source for this kind of stuff against the propoghanda against marijuana, and all the source material is directly reprinted in the last half of the book for your own enjoyment. I've read it cover to cover, but someone stole it from me... too bad too... I had so much stuff highlighted...

And huffing doesnt effect you?! You are obviously misinformed my friend. The effects of longtime huffing will turn you into a shaking, disabled invalid, or worse. And huffing is becoming more and more of a problem now adays. Properly used, perhaps, they don't have this effect, but hemp properly used doesn't either. And hemp is far MORE useful than some of the things out there that are harmful that we allow on the market. That was what I was trying to say.

And if marijuana stops you from working, then it seems more like a personal problem to me. I work just fine when stoned. ESPECIALLY physical labor. Little side note, did you know that in Alaska, pipeline workers got the state government to decriminalize marijuana for their use because working in sub-0 weather made them want to go home after work and get messed up, but alcohol was causing a major decline in worker performance? The state decriminalized it for the oil companies because marijuana had little effect on worker performance, and far less of an effect than alcohol.


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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:Actually, I'd rather read the original study first, before the book of anti-propaganda propaganda.
If you can't reference the material you're quoting, where did you first read about it or read it referenced? Maybe I can source it that way.


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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loki.c1687
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

loki.c1687

addict
Location: Leeds

Total posts: 546
Posted:Like we'll remember the bad news anyway!!!
mike.c


Rules and responsibities:
These are the ties that bind us.
We do what we do,because of who we are.
If we did otherwise,we would not be ourselves.
I will do what i have to do
And i will do what i must..

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Im confused... Perhaps you did not see this part:

and all the source material is directly reprinted in the last half of the book for your own enjoyment

I mean that... Half the book is the book... the other half of the book are the articles, research abstracts and findings, propoghanda / anti-propghanda sources. It is all faithfully reprinted SPECIFICALLY so that you can read them and make your own judgements. If you really want to hunt down the original study, grab a copy of the book, look up the source in the back (which is reprinted there, but I suppose you could go find another copy elsewhere if you really wanted to... just seems redundant).

Admittedly there is a lot of silly stuff in there that is just anecdotal. But the actual research, etc. that is reprinted in the back is the gold that this book really contains. Im sure it wouldnt be too hard to find the sources on the internet... its a fairly popular book.

Heck, Jack Herer's website reprints the entire book on the internet: http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html
br>
The sources are imbedded and not reprinted on the internet version though...

The Monkey study was by Dr. Heath/Tulane, 1974. Its covered in chapter 15.

Cheers!


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quiet


quiet

analytic
Location: bristol

Total posts: 503
Posted:linden [and others]:



'all true but cannabis - when over used (not sure exact amounts but i think its about a few joints a day) can cause comas'



no, this is wrong. it's really unhelpful to just go making stuff up, particularly where debates about drugs are concerned. including obviously false stuff will undermine your position.



PLEASE, if you're going to make strong, positive claims like that one ^^ [i don't know how many pot smokers you know, but it must be rather few if you find that claim plausible] then GIVE A REFERENCE



other debunking can procced as normal



incidentally, having smoked weed for a long time, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that it has the potential to do a lot of damage. I know several people who've smoked heavily for around 15 years and then regretted it; the problem is that, unlike alcohol, you can abuse weed [i.e. chain-smoke dawn to dusk] without immediate, tangible, ill-effects. It's pretty insidious stuff.



e



*edit*: re: pyrolific's claim: 'In my experience, almost every weed smoker has a relatively accurate opinion of the harm caused by weed*, whereas in comparison many tobacco smokers say 'it wont happen to me' or 'I'm not addicted' - a far less informed opinion. '



I dunno about you, but most of the tobacco smokers I know are fully aware that they are addicted and stand a 50% chance of dying of a smoking-related illness.



As far as stoners' opinions of the harm caused by weed goes, I know a large number of stoners who think it's basically harmless, apart from the slight intake of carcinogens. And it's this claim that I'm contesting: I think that weed can be [and often is] deleterious to one's quality of life, but you don't get the same warning signs as you do with tobacco [on the packaging, for instance] or alcohol [hangovers, etc.]

EDITED_BY: quiet (1113653853)


ture na sig

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I thing that normal is do not smoke.

POI THEO(R)IST

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.:star:.
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

.:star:.

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1785
Posted:There are good things about cannabis and there are bad things too...anyone on either side of the argument should be able to see that.

I used to smoke huge amounts of weed everyday because it seemed like the only way of coping at the time. I was using it as an escape instead of addressing the real problems in my life which is what i think many people do. I realised that it wasnt the solution and gave it up so that i could turn my life around. Once my life was back on track i went back to smoking but only recreationally, only once or twice a week. I eventually gave up because i got bored of the 'scene' that surrounded it

I have seen so many of my friends waste so much of their life because of weed. They have given up following their dreams and have become stuck in a cycle of

working crap job...getting fired because always late/off 'sick' etc....no money..no dope..get new crap job....and on and on

One of the reasons i chose to quit smoking it was because i could see myself turning into them and wasting my life the same way.
I am not saying that all tokers are wasting their life because some people can smoke it and not let it rule their life, and good on them.

I didn't smoke much for a few years until i got ill. I am in huge amounts of pain everyday and the doctors can't work out what is wrong. They think it is something like ME. I have been given various different pain-killing medication and none of it has really helped me. I cannot sleep properly because of the pain. It is on my doctors advice that i started smoking weed again. I only have one light spliff before i go to bed and it is all i need to numb the pain enough to get some sleep. It has made my life so much better.

Pain killers often have serious side-effects especially if taken daily for long periods of time. Many people on long courses of pain killers get ulcers and other intestinal problems. I only have one splif a day and i am in control of how much i use. I weighed up the pros and cons and i feel that for me, weed is the best pain killer.


People should be able to make an informed choice about wether they smoke it or nor, just like alcohol and cigarettes. I think it should be left as a category c drug and also should be allowed for medical reasons.


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Chi_Staff
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

member
Location: Stratford Upon Avon, Warwicksh...

Total posts: 35
Posted:Hey, for my 2pence worth, im with the great Bill hicks on this one..."i never heard one reson that rang true as to why Marijuana is against the law." but then i dont think any drug should be against the law.

Whatever it is, If it makes you happy and you're not hurting anybody then you are making the world a better place.

The world always looks nicer when you're spinning.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:My opinion it that its political point scoring, because they also said the review will not affect the decision on whether to give the go-ahead to a prescription form of the drug.



I agree i8beefy2: Written by:
Haha wow, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread, now isn't there? Lets see here...





Marijuana is a very powerful drug and ingesting high levels of marijuana will cause hallucinations, this happens when people have too many cookies. This has happened at at festivals and caused many problems.



spherculist, hemp oil (note, not hash oil) is very expensive. The thing with antibiotics is that we have abused them by overuse, and by not finishing the perspired treatments. This has led to bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics.



moondance, I dont see the difference between marijuana (herbal medicine) and chemical medications (whatever that means) as both are full of chemicals. And this assertion that its ok if its natural is rubbish. All the really dangerous and banned drugs have plant origins like heroin, cocaine etc. even the desigener family is semi synthetic, plant based.



Mr Clarke also asked for advice about the issue of high-strength cannabis, known as "skunk. Ok Mr Clarke and others. I blame the US Government. Following their prohibition policy, the US Gov, sprayed out the Mexican crops back in the 70s? and drove it underground. People crossed different strains to produce skunk so they could grew the stuff inside using hydro. Hydro is a growing system where nutrients are placed in the water, like hydro tomatoes. The genetics changed the potency. Many would agree that the old C. sativa varieties were better because they were less soporific, more trippy.



As Lightning reminds us:



All drugs are poisons. The dose determines the difference between a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsus, c. 2000 BC



cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:I agree that weed will cause hallucinations. Lots of things will do that with suceptable people though... I would say that my in my own experiences, I've "smoked myself tripping" a few times, though calling the feeling of disconnection / color morphs true hallucinations is another matter. Of course, even when Im tripping I've never gotten full blown hallucinations...

I too don't see the difference between pot and medications. In theory the only real difference is that medications are supposed to be purer, standardized dosages, etc...

But there is also the issue there with pharmecutical companies, namely that you CAN NOT patent a medication unless it contains some man made chemical. Of course there isnt much money in non-patented things for the company... so...

Im not sure why people like hydro... personally I think it tastes like chemicals... organics taste so much better.

And I like the quote...


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:i8beefy2, some truth there about synthetic drugs. I had a friend who studied Chinese medicine. She told me that Westerners tend to isolate what they think is the main active ingredient from a plant or herb, and then they synthesis that compound. In Chinese medicine, it is more important to use the whole plant, because often plants contain other compounds that act in synergy.

Dance Safe smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:*Is currently researching the research into long term effects of antidepressant usage and comparing it with the research from researches on long term effects of dope usage* biggrin

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Well done GothFrogette! Let me know how it goes.

"i never heard one reson that rang true as to why Marijuana is against the law." ... Good ole Bill.

I believe it was Machiavelli (can't spell it) who said that 'unjust laws are there to be broken, and it is your duty to break them'.

I'm not going to get too involved in this debate, I've seen both sides of the coin. I've had friends who smoked pot long term and it did their mental health no favours, but they were a little predisposed to psychosis before they smoked (the LSD did not help with this either!). It does seem to make some people lazy, too.

I started smoking when I was 13. It did become a coping mechanism when I'd had some bad experiences, and I do recognise that now. However, it's never really made me paranoid or lethargic as it seems to in a lot of people. It worked quite well for me as an anti-depressant.

I do still like to smoke every evening, I know that's probably not good but I do enjoy it. I don't smoke anywhere near as much as I used to and I refuse to let it become something that gets in the way of things for me.

I would like to see a government that gives more respect to freedom of choice and individual rights, while putting more emphasis on the need to educate people and encourage them to make responsible decisions about their own health and lifestyle. smile

p.s. Even my friend who had the worst drug-induced schizophrenia i've ever come across, who gave up weed because it made things worse, wouldn't dream of making cannabis illegal and stopping everyone else from smoking it if they wanted to.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Just wondering what it is about laws that you don't like?

Is it all laws or mainly ones that prohibit drugs?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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eSC.dA3m0n


newbie
Location: Uk, England, Devon, Plymouth

Total posts: 13
Posted:Your fine as long as you use sensible amounts and dont smoke yourself stupid, maybe the two tier classification could work i guess but still, id be happy keeping it as C.

~^^Everyone has the right to be stupid, but your abusing the privaledge^^~

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Well said Tea Fairy

Written by:
I would like to see a government that gives more respect to freedom of choice and individual rights, while putting more emphasis on the need to educate people and encourage them to make responsible decisions about their own health and lifestyle



clap

Dave, many of the laws passed are band-aid solutions, and often legislation is the last resort of poor government ie. many stupid laws are passed, and people resent being treated like sheep.

We could talk about the Patriot act, but that would be ot. As far a probihition goes, there are many examples where a law introduced to curbe a drug problem has actually increased the problem either by driving it underground or substition or a number of factors.

IMO, education and fixing the social problems that lead to drug abuse in the first place, are the best long-term solutions.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I just see on this board a lot of 'laws that prohibit drugs are bad because it should be down to adult personal choice etc' and I really do think that people often haven't thought through what they're saying.

My own view, as I've often said in these threads, is that I don't really have an opinion on the rights/wrongs of drug legislation- when it comes to whether cannabis should be legal or illegal, I have no view on that; if only because I don't know what the effects of such laws would be on the problem.

However, to say that drug laws are bad on the grounds that the govt should not be allowed to restrict personal choice is, I feel, a bit dubious.

As an example of a law which impinges on the individuals right to choose, and yet which is, IMO, justified; would be seat belt laws.

Prior to the law, people could choose to belt up, but many didn't, and many died/were maimed unnecessarily because of that.

The seat belt laws changed that and saved many lives.

Because of that, and other examples of laws that impinge on personal choice, yet are, IMO, good, and have good cosequences, I dispute the blanket assertion that drug laws are unjustified on the grounds that they impinge upon the right to choose (whilst acknowledging that such laws may be bad for other reasons).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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