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Forums > Social Discussion > Is Michael jackson a Threat to world peace?

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Total posts: 146
Posted:sorry to go into this but it is a subject i feel need to be discused it is one of the last great taboos and that which is bottled up festers.
soapbox
in todays news Michael Jacksons defence lawers have cross examined one of his chief wittnesses and discredited the kids testimonial. now i have no idea weither Michael Jackson is guilty or not i have only the slanted veiws offered by the meidia to draw from. but maybe he is giving a get out of jail free card to the conscience of paedophile in a "im not molesting i am just expressing my love" kind of way.

how does this pertain to world peace? well i think we know that there are socio-economic-political threats out there but i beleave this one is very danferrose because of its far reaching long lasting affects on the human psyche.

one in three women are reputed to have been abused/raped or had an atempt to do likewise traumatic,while one in five males have admitted to this we know that men find it hard to express these thing and thi figue could easily be understated.

survivours of child abuse commonly suffer greatly as teens an adults and can become easily trapped in negative cycles i.e substance-abuse, self harm, poor self esteem, become abusive themselves to others or be eternal victims. trapped by thre anger at the injustice of it all the abused has an affect on everyone that they come in contact with and thus the peace of both inner space and this world at large

a lucky few of the abused later beome Survivors, that is they gorw from the ashes to become the beautiful-free-happy people that they were meant to be.

our media in the u.k like to focus on the monstrosty of paedophiles, the paedophile is given a sentance and with it the possibillity of reform and freedom, the many unheard of victims are left carring a life sentance and in many cases no help is sought for it little is offered publicly

many paedophiles were once abused themselves yet most of the help is geared towards female surviors and is totally aplicible to male surviours, REALITY CHECK men and women handle sexuality in very different ways and if more men are likly to continue the cycle of abuse then society need to help heal them.
there is a helpline called survivoruk
that has been specifficly set up to help male victims of rae/abuse yet it is only open 7pm to 10 pm on a tuesday as it cannot afford to man the telephones. these sort of helplines should have government funding, in fact any thearpy pertaining to the abused should be free to access by victims
-if we do not provide a safe enviorment for healing these hurts our whole world will feel the pain.

i hope not to have set off a negative reaction but would like to know what you all think.


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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:For those who haven't seen the news... this was the late PA story tonight:

ACCUSERS BROTHER CHALLENGED OVER JACKO MOLESTATION EVIDENCE
The brother of Michael Jacksons molestation accuser was today confronted by the singers lawyer with a statement he made to investigators showing he gave a different account of the alleged incidents than the one he told to jurors.
Star Arvizo, 14, testified this week that he twice saw his sleeping brother being molested by Jackson, both times by walking up stairs into the stars bedroom in the master bedroom suite at the singers Neverland ranch.
Defence lawyer Thomas Mesereau produced an interview Star gave to sheriffs deputies in which he said he was lying on a couch pretending to be asleep when he witnessed the second molestation.
I was pretending like I was sleeping. I was in his couch, the little couch, Mesereau quoted from a transcript.
Mesereau asked Star whether his account of the second molestation had changed.
It was actually three times, Star replied from the witness box in the court in Santa Maria, California.
Mesereau also asked him about what exactly Jackson was doing to his brother, Gavin, in the second incident and how he was touching him.
I was nervous when I did the interview, said Star.
So because you were nervous you didnt get the facts right, the lawyer asked.
Yes, the boy said.
On Tuesday, Mesereau produced a transcript of grand jury testimony by a psychologist who interviewed Star and reported yet another description of the second molestation with fundamentally different physical details.
Mesereau today also challenged prosecutors claims that the boys family was held against their will at Neverland for nearly a month, getting the boy to acknowledge that the family left three times.
How many times do you think your family escaped from Neverland and then went back so they could escape again? Mesereau asked.
I dont get the question, Star said.
The boy later said he only considered the third departure from Neverland to be an escape.
Jackson, 46, is accused of molesting the then 13-year-old cancer survivor Gavin Arvizo at Neverland in 2003, giving him alcohol and conspiring to hold the boys family captive to get them to rebut a damaging TV documentary in which Jackson said he allowed children to sleep in his bedroom.
AP


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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:I think you need to realize first why the kids testimony was dismissed...it was because he lied about what he said. Thus, dismissal. So, please don't convict someone just because of that. Everyone in this country (the US) is deserving of a fair trial.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:"A threat to world peace"??

I can see why. Mr. Jackson might be helping the minds of paedophiles, but I doubt we'll see any more of them _because_ of him.

I know that abuse can lead on to a child (Or adult) being mssed up, but abusing? I can't see how that would happen! But then I'm not a paedophile so I guess I wouldn't.

I doubt the peace of the world is in danger, just maybe some more kids.


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Total posts: 146
Posted:Written by: Sym_



I can see why. Mr. Jackson might be helping the minds of paedophiles, but I doubt we'll see any more of them _because_ of him.

I know that abuse can lead on to a child (Or adult) being mssed up, but abusing? I can't see how that would happen! But then I'm not a paedophile so I guess I wouldn't.

I doubt the peace of the world is in danger, just maybe some more kids.



during early years children draw from their enviorment archtypes that they accept and can return to in later life if unchallenged
by no means everyone whos is abused will become an abuser however statistics gleaned from the net and the books on the subject do point out that many abuser are continuing on an abuse-cycle.


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Total posts: 146
Posted:as to the threat to peace if the statisics are true at least one fith of the world has beendirectly affected and then there are those whom the interact with

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:I know they do, but an abuser is an "archtypes that they accept"

Anyway, point taken, all I was saying is I can't imagion myself doing it.


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Zauberdach


Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 199
Posted:At least this kind of thing is out in the public eye. There some people, mostly in the Daily Mail, who think back to the good ol' "innocent" days when there was apparently no child abuse. Rubbish. There has always been child abuse. We today are able to talk about it and as a society are just beginning to face up to it.

I thank my luck stars every morning that I live in the current "moral vacuum" of our "corrupt" society where people can talk about and deal with these things rather than pretend that they don't exist.


IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Daily Mail.

yeush. shiver. eek


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Posted:yep the daily mail is probly the feul for much of middle englands ignorance mad2
i hope that with open debate suport can be gained for those affected and that the victims storie can be told without predjudice from society
healing happens internally but society has a moral obligation to address the issue rather than just sensationisle the crime


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mtbeer
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

mtbeer

ARRRR!
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 529
Posted:The kids friggin parents brought them to Jacksons house for the "sleepover"! They fully knew at the time what he had been accused of and yet they continued? WTF!? Aer they just trying to get on T.V.? It's like a bad episode of Jerry Springer.
If you ask me, the kids parents should also be on trial. mad2


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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hmmm. I would just like to say that today's media hype surrounding Michael Jackson's '3-minutes late' for court was shocking.

Who cares that he was late? Who cares if he has a sore back? The hype and circus that has grown around this is utterly sickening... (although with minute-by-minute breaking news - perfect for TV!)

Also in todays news... Tony Blair gets his terrorism bill forced through parliament. Or perhaps the fundraising efforts of Comic Relief tomorrow would be a more appropriate for these wasted column inches and airtime.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Is Jacko a threat to world peace??? no...Is he entitled to a competent defense?.. yes

I realize that the gist of the original post was to call attention to the lack of support for male survivors of child abuse, but the topic sure was a sensationalistic way of going about it....I can make an educated guess about what the Daily Mail is, and can't help but thinking that the title of the post might just serve as one of their headlines.

I'm wondering about the 1 in 3 women reporting some kind of sexual abuse statement too,,,where did this come from? and how does it relate to survivors of child abuse?
Was this statement a product of the victim focus mentality that was rampant in the mid 90s? A time when even looking at a woman the wrong way could be classed as sexual assault ( leering,,oogling) or when people were being convinced by their therapists that the reason their lives were so messed up was because they'd been sexually abused, but merely repressed the memories,,,,which of course called for more therapy.

Point is,, today's society is more than aware of child abuse issues and being a paedophile is about the worst thing you can be nowadays, what other members of a "group" can you openly discuss about wanting to murder??,,,yet still they persist.

Why do they exist,,nature vs nurture? I'm with the nature camp because if being a paedophile was a choice,,,who in their right mind would pick it??? really. It'll be interesting to see what the genetic engineering types do with this, if it is indeed genetic I'm figuring this will be one of the first behaviour traits they manage to wipe out.


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:AKIK, there is nothing to say that paedophilia is genitic. That would imply that it would 'run in the familly' (without getting in to genitic speak)

"who in their right mind would pick it?" I think you have it there, these people are not "in their right mind". They are twisted, sick and messed up people, IMHO.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:yep,,,they are,,,but why? what causes someone to not be in their right mind? Are you implying that chemical balances, that lead to irrational,,, or sick and twisted behavior don't exist? That somehow this is learned behaviour? If so,,,then can it be unlearned?

{ edit } I'd drawn some parallels here but while I was outside indulging in my own antisocial behaviour (smoking a cigarette) I chickened out and deleted them.

From all the news reports I've seen, and having met one in person ( no, I wasn't a victim, almost but I was old enough to figure somthing was kinda strange going on) these are normal people with a serious problem. The guy I knew was a soccer coach, an engineer, a hobby boat builder, married with two grown children,,,,joe normal. He got busted, they tried the chemical castration thing on him, which apparently doesn't work, and sometimes ( even though that was 30 years ago ) I'm tempted to phone him up and ask him if he's still attracted to children. I know he's still alive, his numbers in the phone book, and he has to be close to 90 now,,but still I'm curious,


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myco
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

myco


Location: melbourne, victoria, australia

Total posts: 2084
Posted:i don't want to get too caught up in this, because i have a very strong viewpoint on the matter, and i know it'll get out of hand. i just want a little clarification where you got your info from
Written by: rikstik


one in three women are reputed to have been abused/raped or had an atempt to do likewise traumatic,while one in five males have admitted to this we know that men find it hard to express these thing and thi figue could easily be understated.




the last stats i heard was 1 in 4 women had been abused before the age of 18, but i find it unlikely that 1 in 5 males have admitted to abusing. it is known that many sexually abusive males (and females) reoffend, hurting more than one person, making the amount of abusers much less than the amount of abused. i haven't actually heard statistics on abusive males, because, as you say, it depends on the abuser being willing to admit it. i am, however, under the impression that the number of abusive males is much less than what you're stating. I got these numbers from CASA (centre against sexual assault), who have done extensive research, but i'm not sure whether these are specific to australia (although it's very likely).

i am sorry if this seems like an attack. i really don't mean it to come across that way.


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Posted:i got the info from:
The Courage to heal- by Laura Davis
www.havoca.org -an site set up to help survivors of abuse
www.namsas.org.uk
www.survivorsuk.co.uk

I know its a sticky subject, but I feel that it should be discussed.
society needs to tackle the problems that occur for survivors of all forms of abuse.

as to weither it is genetic I have doubts. what It seems is that many abusers have been victims of abuse themselfs but not all. the causes could be chemical in balances or social/cultual influences who can really say for sure.

this is a subject I feel stongly about and I have posted here to hear the veiws of my peers. i am new to this forum stuff but after reading the posts made by some of you I thought i'd take the risk of broaching the subject.

Over the last coupla months there has been a few things on u.k television about paedophiles and how they a professionally treated. In canada they have the "circle of accountablity" to help stop the reoffending of serial abusers upon their . the program about this was the first positve thing that the media has ever said on the subject, The media does sensationalise and promote hate yet refuses to promte healing and ignores the far reaching impacts on those who survive abuse.

many survivors are to ashamed to talk about these things and people often do not know how to respond when the do.

It might be that my thread was not thought out to clearly or tht i dont have the elloquence to express my veiw well enough.
but i do beleive that abuse in all its forms are a major threat to the peace of our world. and this has been playing on my mind for a while now.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Ok let's try this again, this time without the spell checker, as this will be the third time I've typed this.

Thanks for the links,,it's always irked me when sombody makes the statement " Studies show..........." and when I ask "what studies?" I get a vague answer like..."I read it somewhere,,or someone said". Call me a skeptic, but I don't always believe everything i hear or read.

I know what you mean about the eloquence thing, seems Myco and I read the phrase about males and abuse in two different ways. I took it to mean that 1 in 5 males had been abused, she reads 1 in 5 are abusers.

Strange thing,,,after I put up that post yesterday, I saw a front page article in out local paper abut a chil molester who had just been released from jail. He has a record dating back to 1957,,,and his last offence was in 2004...why was he released? That's what I want to know. is it part of the circle of accountability??


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Posted:I don't know if that is a part of the circle of accountability or not, and it worries me that i don't know what treatment if any these paedophiles get when in prison.

from what i remember about the Circle of acountability is that people from a a comunity get to know the offenders prior to release and learn about the situations in which they likly to reoffend, then when the peson is released they are a like a hybrid nehbourhood watch/suport-network/bible-studie group in the hope that if they can keep an eye on him they can then protect their community and their kids.

apart from the bible bashing this seems more positive than nameing and shaming paedophiles which would proboblly force them into hiding where it would by harder for anyone monitor their activities


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Zauberdach


Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 199
Posted:Is anyone willing to advance an informed view on why paedophiles actually go for children? I had kind of assumed it was people who for some reason can only relate to children but yet have adult level sexual urges.

However, I don't know anything about this really. Anyone educate me on the non-sensational academic theories?


IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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