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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
  Posted: Since we're hitting all sorts of questions about the meaning of life, the universe, and politics... may as well go for one of the other sticky social issues. (now please don't kill me for the question, I'm just curious about social issues, don't take it too seriously!)

Do men actually ever really get into the warm fuzzies? Or is it all really just a big charade they've sortof been conned into because women FREAK at them if they don't at least pretend to play along?

There's so much that guys just do not seem to GET. Even when a girl explains in excruciating detail to them just how her feelings (god, in our culture just the word 'feelings' is practically a joke in of itself) are working on some issue or another-- ie, wanting him to remember an anniversary, being hurt when a long-distance lover won't hurry to her side, needing reassurance, romance, yadda yadda-- it just does not seem to sink in. Nothing gets DONE about any of it unless the man gets programmed ala Pavlov on pain of PMS Tantrums of Doom. As I've heard it said many times, "when a guy sees another guy carrying flowers somewhere, he immediately thinks, 'oops, he musta screwed up!"

Stories told from a male perspective tend to be full of humor regarding how crazy women are and how put-upon men feel whenever they're stuck in a situation where they have to deal with anything emotional. When they're dramatic or with action, the guy is careening all over the place screwing everything female in sight and flexing big muscles, ala Conan or 007.

Stories from a female perspective are full of men that don't act anything at all like any actual man alive that I've ever heard of-- wooing, outspokenly romantic, tender. Romance novel stuff.

The attitude each gender seems to have about sex is wildly different. As one buddy told me once, "women need all sorts of... emotional things. Men... well, we just need some friction. Could be the floor, the wall, doesn't matter." You never see anything on tv or in stories where a guy is worrying about his first time being 'special'.

In fact, men seem allergic to doing anything that women actually find attractive-- learning to dance, being thoughtful, being gentle and caring, it's all considered 'gay' like that's the most deplorable and silly thing on earth, a huge hassle or a joke... regardless of the well-known fact that women actually tend to admire and pine over the actual gay men who are happy to do such things. What is WITH that?

Now, these are all wild generalizations, of course... but I'm wondering, and a little alarmed by the widespread stereotypes. Maybe the types of men found here, doing Poi, have got to be a little different than the average male populace, since many of you actually bother to learn how to DANCE and do something artistic/spiritual. 95% of the men out there can't dance. They just can't. They jump up and down a little and that's it. That little difference means something big.

So how about it fellas? Candles, roses, the way moonlight shines in her eyes, trust and adoration and being with someone who understands you and values your inner soul? .....Any actual appeal there? Or would you just rather just get it on without the vulnerability and hassle?

And if the latter... why? Is it just cause society raised you to be emotionally stunted so that you twitch in instinctive fear and horror when you hear those words? Or is it just plain not even interesting?


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
  Posted:/me loves candles, roses, moonlight, and all of the above together

Nothing more fun for me and my girlfriend than a nice relaxing candlelit bath together with some soft music and some incense. Then dry off, go lay on the couch and watch some movies.

And darling, I think you're bang on when you said "Now, these are all wild generalizations, of course... but I'm wondering, and a little alarmed by the widespread stereotypes. Maybe the types of men found here, doing Poi, have got to be a little different than the average male populace, since many of you actually bother to learn how to DANCE and do something artistic/spiritual."
The people on HoP and in this scene in general are incredibly cool.

However, I'm reminded of all the locker room talk I've heard over the many years of many sports.
Guys talking about inviting girls to the party just so they can get them drunk and take advantage of them. About who they would like to bang. Etc...They talked with out regard of anyone's feelings (let alone theirs of the females named)


Although I do feel abit strange saying it, but I know just as many women who fit your "All play, no work" generalizations about romance. There are tons of women all of the world who do mindlessy go after sex like the men you're thinking of. I doubt there is as many as there are men, simply because of the repression women are only now coming out of (after thousands of years of being sexually repressed), but on the most basic level, BOTH sexes feel the need to reproduce, it's not just guys.

And are you ok dear? You seem a bit bitter with your last few posts, mainly in here and in the evolution thread...


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
  Posted:I've loved and lost, been head over heels and fell on my ass. But yes, I agree with Angel in most things. A lot of guys just have a hard time admitting their feelings about things...

But then I'll also admit that 90% of the guys out there are asses and don't take everything into consideration.. But there are girls that are the same way


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
  Posted:I don't think it's alot of guys who have problems admiting feelings.
I personally don't think it has anything to do with gender. I think it's an invididual thing, and should be treated as such. People who say things like "All men are pigs" or "Women are just after your seed" piss me off -.-
I think alot of people these days have problems admitting their feelings and emotions. I think alot of it spawns from how detached with our selves we've become. I blame this on things like TV and Video games and the computer...
Timothy Leary once said "I know mickey mouse better than I do George Bush. George Bush is just a clump of electrons on my TV screen, but Mickey Mouse I've seen in real life", or something of the sort. Idea is that we've become so detached from real people and so attached to unreal things.

Back on Topic...
Candle lit dinners, falling aslepe in each other's embraces and having someone to hold onto during movies are great things which this male loves.


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
  Posted:Oh is that what women want? Cause my experience, as one of those caring sensitive males, is that we get passed over for the bad boy on a fairly regular basis. The people I know who fit your description of a caring guy have the same feelings. Nice guys finish last. We're "boring".

That being said I'd still rather be a "nice guy".


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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
  Posted:Most nice guys are passed over because they're too shy. You can be nice and assertive too.

Most girls I know want a guy who can take care of them when they're down at the very lease.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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MissEgyptology
BRONZE Member since Feb 2005

MissEgyptology

officially expelled from BYU
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 195
  Posted:As for the "girls always skip the nice guy for the jerk" thing, I think that's untrue. If she does do that, she probably doesn't want a real relationship, or she may just be doing it to bother another guy. Kael makes a good point about nice guys being shy. So often nice girls are admiring nice guys and both admirers are too shy to act.

"So Miss, I think you win the prize... A mormon egyptologist in a firespinning chat room... that's gotta be a record of some kind"
-NYC

Thanks, NYC,but I quit mormonism now XD

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
  Posted:This is a 'large' topic, with ALOT of details which I have looked into a little bit, so i'll add my 2 cents...



Most guys out there want love, and to find a single partner to be with. Actually finding a guy that will show those feelings is harder. Yes, guys get those 'warm fuzzies' about women. BUT you have to know/remember that women's and man's brains function differently. It takes certain things for a man to feel that way about a woman, and something different for a woman to feel that way about a man.



They both have different needs and wants in life. I'll name a few as examples.

Women like drama, and talking about problems. You give a woman a problem, generally she will want to talk about it, discuss it, (depending on problem) make an issue & create lots of emotions about it. - creating drama.(please ladies, this is just a dodgy example) Most guy's don't get this.

Give a guy a problem & he will discuss how to solve it, then solve it. Drama is not a guy's need in life, and hence does not have a love for it & can find it bothersome.

Same goes oppositely. (that a word?)

Guys have a need for competition/challenge. eg: Watching sports on TV satisfies this. Women do't have this need, and hence many don't understand how a guy can sit infront of the TV & watch so much sport. (there are other emotions for this too).

Same applies in all aspects of life. You get two MoS who understand each other's needs & many things become much simpler.

Written by: Gnarly Cranium


There's so much that guys just do not seem to GET. Even when a girl explains in excruciating detail to them just how her feelings are working on some issue or another





Nail on the head - Most guys just don't 'GET' it. Finding a guy who does is hard. Sorry to break it to you. frown

Guys don't have any need to discuss feelings with each other - girls need to 'get' this. Men don't understand that girls do want to discuss feelings.

Sex - Both women and men like sex. Just as much as the other. Yes, it's true. It's just that men & women think about this topic differently, and slightly different things turn the MoS on. Find out what that is young padawan...

Written by: Gnarly Cranium


In fact, men seem allergic to doing anything that women actually find attractive-- learning to dance, being thoughtful, being gentle and caring, it's all considered 'gay' like that's the most deplorable and silly thing on earth, a huge hassle or a joke... regardless of the well-known fact that women actually tend to admire and pine over the actual gay men who are happy to do such things. What is WITH that?





Hold on...to something. There are many things that women find attractive. Much moreso than 'dancing' or being 'thoughtful'. These things are good, but very few women actually know what they find attractive. Deep down inside. Ask any woman why they're crazy about some guy & generally she'll not know. Outside of the superficial.

Yes, I did answer your question.

Why don't guys like dancing? Beats me, but I don't enjoy it all that much either. :P It just kinda happens when I play with my Fire Toys weavesmiley and i enjoy it.

but aren't I contradicting myself? eek



Everything I say above relate to 'most people'. There are exceptions. I don't claim to understand women at all, or men for that matter, but I hope I've helped a little bit! hug

EDITED_BY: raghkyre (1110179624)


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
  Posted:I know lots of girls who say they prefer a good-looking arrogant bastard to a nice less good-looking boy (or worse a nice geek), so why be surprised if men act along those lines when many girls expect them to? I think arrogance is attractive to lots of people. A lot of times, nice boys are quite insecure, and many girls can't be bothered to reassure their man about things all the time, partly because they feel it's their part to be reassured by a strong alpha-male.
(hahaha, just my little opinion from a girl's point of view!)
About dancing and remembering anniversaries, different kinds of people simply have different priorities. I've never expected a man to remember anniversaries, just to get it if I gave them a "subtle" hint a few days in advance wink And I myself can't dance much more than "jump up and down a little", my priorities are on making the music instead of moving along with it, though I wouldn't mind going to a dancing class if I was with a man who liked dancing. But if this is stuff you care about, make sure the man fits the criteria before seriously going out with him!!


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
  Posted:Post deleted by Konsti

"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
  Posted:ok, cranium
from my experince women are NOT attracted to a nice, caring, romantic kinda guy. I am a nice guy and apparently great "friends" material but not interesting for a relationship of any kind.

it seems that women are attracted to a more arrogant type, that is emotionally distanced, doesnt spend much time or effort on the relationship, and is generally useless.

as long as women ignore the guys that treat them nicely and embrace the guys that treat them badly, they are going to have to deal with them.

Cranium- i know plenty of guys that cared about their first time being special, and i know plenty of guys that regret their first time being a drunk hook up in a bars toilet.

i know plenty of guys (im one of them) that get a kick when they know that the woman they are with is fully satisfied; emotionally and physically.

so please stop talking abou men like we are dogs, just running ariund trying to spread our seed, theres more to us and if you havent found it, you havent been looking hard enough.

disclaimer: there are exceptions to everything


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
  Posted:Some fantastic responses goin on here people! Lot of stuff to think about!


Written by: ImmortalAngel

Nothing more fun for me and my girlfriend than a nice relaxing candlelit bath together with some soft music and some incense. Then dry off, go lay on the couch and watch some movies.

Awwwwwwww! ubblove

Written by: ImmortalAngel
The people on HoP and in this scene in general are incredibly cool.

Noticing that already!

Written by:
However, I'm reminded of all the locker room talk I've heard over the many years of many sports.
Guys talking about inviting girls to the party just so they can get them drunk and take advantage of them. About who they would like to bang. Etc...They talked with out regard of anyone's feelings (let alone theirs of the females named)

That's the kind of [censored] that just plain makes me want to go for some pruning shears, honestly. What the hell are they thinking???

Written by: ImmortalAngel
Although I do feel abit strange saying it, but I know just as many women who fit your "All play, no work" generalizations about romance. There are tons of women all of the world who do mindlessy go after sex like the men you're thinking of.

This is true. I don't know what the percentages are either... I was just trying to pin down why flowers-happy-ever-after-etc is always associated with women and why guys seem so totally revolted by it and if it was just a nasty joke blown out of proportion. Which seems to be the case. Phew. You have helped rekindle a bit of my hope for the human race on that score. I feel MUCH better.

Written by: ImmortalAngel
And are you ok dear? You seem a bit bitter with your last few posts, mainly in here and in the evolution thread...

What? Me? Bitter? .............Okay so maybe a little. ubblol Although really, who wouldn't be a little bitter about having to worry about choking on their food and not getting to play in sunny oceans all day?

Written by: ImmortalAngel

People who say things like "All men are pigs" or "Women are just after your seed" piss me off

God now I have this weird image in my head of some guy sitting around watching tv and munching on a pack of sunflower seeds.. then this crazed woman tears through the room, grabs them, and runs off. SEED SNATCHER STRIKES AGAIN!!

Written by: raghkyre

Give a guy a problem & he will discuss how to solve it, then solve it. Drama is not a guy's need in life, and hence does not have a love for it & can find it bothersome.


I've definitely noticed that. Guys have to fix things. Fixfixfix. They see something wrong they try to fix it. Even if trying makes it worse. And if it ain't fixable, then they get confused and frustrated and majorly pissed. I think you're dead on with the drama/solving thing. (while of course generalizing, since everybody's different and so on)

Written by: raghkyre
very few women actually know what they find attractive. Deep down inside. Ask any woman why they're crazy about some guy & generally she'll not know.


Amen to THAT. Regarding the entire nice guy/bad boy issue and all things in that area... I think 90% of women are completely and totally clueless and just winging it with no real reasoning. They have all these expectations, all these ideas of what a relationship is supposed to be like, and in searching for that, totally miss what's really right and under their noses. Then again, I won't claim to understand what most women are thinking. Okay so I am one, but I am by no means a normal one-- I'm that one 6' tomboy who's always in the middle of a big group of totally geeky guys, playing computer games and watching horrifically gory movies. In general, women totally mystify me.

Me, I luvvs mah geeks. Okay so I don't have one of my very own yet, but geeks is my peoples. *pats them*

Written by: Konsti

please stop talking abou men like we are dogs, just running ariund trying to spread our seed, theres more to us and if you havent found it, you havent been looking hard enough.


But dood-- this is why I had that warning in my post, don't take it so seriously. I was just rattling off stereotypes and behavior I've seen a lot of that worries me, and posing a general inquiry-- this IS me looking harder.

And now I'm confused, are the damn seeds being spread around, or stolen? biggrin



I was totally not expecting so many all-out rational and clear and open answers on this. You guys rock.


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
  Posted:Some guys are out to hurt you, others are out to make you happy. Sometimes i cant tell the differnce cos the nasty ones play games. Long games that seem okay until they rip your heart out.

Ive grown bitter and amazon-ish because of this...

I feel sorry for the women who ahve had only bad guys with their brain in their d**ks because they will never trust men again.

But when you find someone genuinely nice, its the best feeling. The hard part is finding them because the ones that wanna hurt you, always seem okay at first...


.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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Nucleopoi
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Nucleopoi

chemical attraction
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England

Total posts: 1097
  Posted:men generally find love hard to grasp due to the prospects of long tern commitment and feeling tied down.women like commitment most of the time so fall in love easier than men seem to

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babajaga
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

babajaga

old hand
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 863
  Posted:I never was with guys like you describe here just spreading something.... the guys I know just have problems with commitment and being nailed down on something what maybe isnt the right thing... but I have to admit I have the same fear so are there really such big differences... I mean everybody is dealing his fears in his own way and if it goes over your limits just stay away from it anyway maybe I'm different cos I'm still friend with almost all guys I was with it just didnt work out as a serious relationship

What I want to say we have all feelings, positive or negative, let people show or not show like they want but they still have them


What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.

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babajaga
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

babajaga

old hand
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 863
  Posted:and in the end everybody is interested in love in being connected somehow...

What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.

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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
  Posted:no worries cranium....

this has been p!ss!ng me off for years



i just cant listen to women b!tch!ng about the @rseholes that they deliberatly are going for, most of those guys have a reputation for doing horrible things.



for example if i know that some woman is known for not taking comitment serious, im not going to want a lasting commited relationship with her cos its obviously not what she wants/ needs at this point in her life. And pressing her to behave the way I want is NOT going to work out.



Everyting has to work on a voluntary level....



i think that girls have to understand with guys. You cant force him to be nice and romantic and so on, unless he wants to. If a guy has only experiences where being nice and romantic is not necessary to get what they need (having a girlfriend, or plain sex), they wont be nice and romantic in the future.



if women woud only go for those nice and romantic guys, all guys would be nice and romantic because its simply part of having a relationship of any kind.



am i making sense?


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Adya Miriyana
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Adya Miriyana

*slou?
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 6554
  Posted:Written by: Sakura_moon

Some guys are out to hurt you, others are out to make you happy. Sometimes i cant tell the differnce cos the nasty ones play games. Long games that seem okay until they rip your heart out.



Too True..

Though I've found that, i've been lucky enough to find that there are nice ones. who really care, so it can be said there is no lack of emotion in all males, as some say.

They differ as much as females, in my experience.

be wary in the beginning, find out who you're dealing with . and that applies to either gender. it will take a while to "find the right one". that, my dears, is for a reason. smile


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Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
  Posted:ok, now i am a male and i am sensative. most males and females just think im gay. i get really pissed off about that. i mean hell, just coz i like to read Cleo, just coz i like to shave my legs, just coz i like to wear a headband, just coz i like to have deap and meaningfuls and just because i dont like to go [censored] any random chick any chance i get people think i must be gay. come on pplz, dont sterotype all men. there are decent guys out there as well. i like to think i am one of them.

soz, i got a lil bit aggressive there. he he he. but to tell all you girls the truth, most guys will just try to get into your pants as soon as he can. my suggestion is make hi wait the first date, dont kiss him until the end of the night, make it a real romantic kiss at the door after a really good night out. it also gives you a way out if its a really bad night, you dont have to kiss him if it was a bad night. but just try to hold off on the first date. it gives you a better idea of what sort of person he really is.

well that is my opinion anyway. call me old fashioned but thats the way i like it.............. .................. ................ soz, i was daydreaming. just thinking about my perfect women. i dunno, i just hope i meet her one day. biggrin

Peace out to all. peace

Jai.


I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
  Posted:I dont really know,

But sometimes it just seems like we are sending flowers to the wrong people ?


shrug


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
  Posted:Arguably, men feel more need for love than women.

That's quite possibly the root of their traditional 'bad behaviour' and insecurity.

I think that many women totally underestimate the amount of male hurt and confusion regarding how they perceive women see them.

I think most men would agree that the traditional 'insensitive/unfeeling' blokes have more success with women than the many of the 'nice, but maybe a little shy, guys'.

It's probably fair to say that around 50% of the problems are down to female attitudes.

If woman's priority for getting into a relationship is 'the chase', and they put that higher than understanding, security etc; then they shouldn't be too surprised to see what they get caught by smile

Most men don't take rejection well, it's at least as hurtful to men as it is to women, and, given the traditional view that men do the asking/chasing, they tend to experience a lot more rejection than women.

A combination of mild insecurity, shyness and a history of rejection is not conducive to nice-guys galloping around being romantic,or, in many cases, making any effort whatsoever- they've given up.

I fully understand that no woman would want a pathetic, weak and needy male for their life companion.

But there's a huge distinction between that and guys who are just a little shy and reluctant to make a move.

Best thing that women could do is be selective i.e. if you don't like what's chasing you then, to an extent, you start to get involved in the selection process.

Traditionaly, men are accused of thinking with their nuts; women are also heavily influenced by hormones/chemicals- they have nuts too.

Just as guys are supposed to overcome the 'blond, big tits, just for sex' cliches; so women whose nuts are telling them 'square jaw, super-confident, chase me etc' should maybe start reflecting on their attitudes.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
  Posted:im a dedicated romantic fool, im not sure i'd be happy with a girl that didnt enjoy a bit of romance a chivarly every now and again. most do seem to though smile

i reckon im happier seeing someone regularly also, it doesnt have to be a relationship but it helps if it has the potential. as for the old one night stand. i've got absolutely no interested in going out to the pub and trying to get some girl into bed, drunk or otherwise. in fact when im drunk i completly lose the abilty to maintain a interesting conversation if im talking to someone i like and im nervous.

im always up for a night of happy fun though i wouldnt bother if the feeling wasnt mutual though. its just not worth the drama that invairably ensues.

as for the 'nice guys finish last' idea. i dont buy it.

it might take a bit longer but if its without the drama i'll take it.

so i'd say yep, im defo one of the ones interested in love.

any takers?

smile


Love is the law.

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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
  Posted:Written by:
Most men don't take rejection well, it's at least as hurtful to men as it is to women, and, given the traditional view that men do the asking/chasing, they tend to experience a lot more rejection than women.

A combination of mild insecurity, shyness and a history of rejection is not conducive to nice-guys galloping around being romantic,or, in many cases, making any effort whatsoever- they've given up.

I fully understand that no woman would want a pathetic, weak and needy male for their life companion.

But there's a huge distinction between that and guys who are just a little shy and reluctant to make a move.

Best thing that women could do is be selective i.e. if you don't like what's chasing you then, to an extent, you start to get involved in the selection process.

Traditionaly, men are accused of thinking with their nuts; women are also heavily influenced by hormones/chemicals- they have nuts too.

Just as guys are supposed to overcome the 'blond, big tits, just for sex' cliches; so women whose nuts are telling them 'square jaw, super-confident, chase me etc' should maybe start reflecting on their attitudes.



wow. i completely agree with this.


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
  Posted:Good post onewheeldave
Written by: onewheeldave

Most men don't take rejection well, it's at least as hurtful to men as it is to women, and, given the traditional view that men do the asking/chasing, they tend to experience a lot more rejection than women.



I know some guys who will ask a girl for her details, get rejected, then be unhappy for months about it before working up the courage to ask again. I also know of guys who will ask 10 times in a night, get rejected all 10, then go out the next night & do the same thing over.
Written by: onewheeldave

given the traditional view that men do the asking/chasing, they tend to experience a lot more rejection than women.



I wouldn't completely agree with this... Women tend to get rejected all the time, but by a more subtle means...
She's at a party, spots a guy she likes. Gives him a look . he takes no notice. Rejected.
She gives him a smile. He smiles back, but does nothing. Rejected.
She walks by him & brushes his arm. He looks back, but does nothing. Rejected.
So on & so forth. She gets rejected many times & ponders over it for a long time & figures something is wrong with her, never realising that women understand body language about 10 times better than men (That's a literal value, 10 whole times), and the guy just didn't realise she was interested. Then he may finally get the courage to go talk to her, comes across as insecure & unconfident & gets nowhere, or, doesn't pluck up the courage to take the next step. (I'm talking nice guys here).
Guy gets rejected once, gal many times.
Of course some guys are not like this at all, but hey, women do get rejected alot too.

And, for abit of fun, check out this website.
The Ladder Theory
"The ladder theory is a funny, scientific explanation of how men and women
are attracted to each other."


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
  Posted:It's tricky... you most often hear about the typical 'nice guy' who girls only want to be friends with. I'm the female equivalent, I suppose, a girl who has a lot of male friends, and most males only see her as a friend. I'm feminine, but I'm not a girly girl and have plenty of tomboyish hobbies. The guys that do decide to take an interest are often... undesirable. (See some of the previous arrogant male descriptions!)

Thing is, if all the guys you know/ date are like that, it's time to change your social circles, 'cos there are plenty of nice ones out there- sometimes (only sometimes! Not trying to overgeneralise) like attracts like and most of the males in a group can be of a similar mindset. If that's not a good mindset, move on!

I try and look for the nice guys. I'm not a particularly romantic person, but there's no way I'd want to date some of the pond scum you find out there, it's worth waiting for something good. I personally could never date someone I didn't already know at least a little; for me a boyfriend has to be a friend too. The guy I'm dating now was a friend first. Be wary of feeling flattered when an arrogant man shows you some attention- it's easy to feel special when someone treats you nicer than the other girls, but the worst of the worst can be nice to you when they want something! I like to see how a guy treats people whose pants he ISN'T trying to get into! smile


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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OrangeBobo
SILVER Member since Nov 2003

OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada

Total posts: 1389
  Posted:I suppose I shouldn't say much, as I'm currently in a great relationship with a guy who is... amazing. Honestly sometimes more romantic than I am... Sometimes more sensitive than I am. Sometimes more affectionate than I am. But me loves him like that ubblove



A major problem I see with people my age and relationships (that being said, I'm a teeeny-bopper. 16) is that the girls are generally (from what I can see) more mature emotionally than the boys at this age... While the girls will wait patiently and just simply chatter and not be completely immature like the boys while waiting for a teacher. The boys jump out the windows with a broom, and knock down the icicles outside, bring them in, throw them at eacother, getting water all over... (That was actually today...) And, that being said as well, my boy is 21 redface (That and I could get sent home to Canada if my organization found out we're together... oops!)



EDIT: Sometimes I really don't know what I'm going on about. Went for tea, and realized that this paragraoph I wrote isn't really what I thought. lalala... rolleyes *wanders out before more embarassment*



And I have no idea where I'm going with all of this, and wander off for some tea... ho hum!



~ Bobo

EDITED_BY: OrangeBobo (1110212915)


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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Sniper
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Sniper

Snoochie-boochie-noochies!
Location: United Kingdom

Total posts: 663
  Posted:Love - Emotion or tool?

similar-ish thread trying to find why women enjoy trying to use love as a tool to get what they want from men


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
  Posted:Written by: raghkyre

Women tend to get rejected all the time, but by a more subtle means...
She's at a party, spots a guy she likes. Gives him a look . he takes no notice. Rejected.
She gives him a smile. He smiles back, but does nothing. Rejected.



What I was saying above would tend to query this. She may feel rejected, but I'd want to point out that the bloke hasn't rejected her, as he's got no idea of what's going on.

Also, smiles could mean anything, from nervousness and politeness to wanting to be friends, to desire/romance etc.

Written by: raghkyre

..............
She walks by him & brushes his arm. He looks back, but does nothing. Rejected.


That's more like it smile

But, if she's serious, why doesn't she just do what she seems to be relying on the guy to do i.e. go over and start a conversation?

Some men do have a very good understanding of signals/body language- others don't.

Given that, from what the original posts said, women seem to feel dissatisfied by the men who do (ie the ones they generally end up with), I'm suggesting that they give the others a go, and that's going to involve communicating with them in a way that they understand, which may be plain old words, rather than subtle body language.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
  Posted:clap for OWD

Love is the law.

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
  Posted:Written by: Konsti

i think that girls have to understand with guys. You cant force him to be nice and romantic and so on, unless he wants to. If a guy has only experiences where being nice and romantic is not necessary to get what they need (having a girlfriend, or plain sex), they wont be nice and romantic in the future.

if women woud only go for those nice and romantic guys, all guys would be nice and romantic because its simply part of having a relationship of any kind.

am i making sense?


Uh.... no. Not really. You're making it sound like men would be nice only if they absolutely HAVE to be. Except in the first paragrah you say they'll only do it if they want to. Not getting it.


onewheeldave--
Some VERY good points there. I think you're probably dead right on most of it. Lot of stuff that hadn't occured to me before.

Men really are stuck in an awkward situation in our society. Women have all sorts of expectations adn wants from them (and then go around contradicting themselves in despicably confusing ways), and they never learn how to really deal with all that social/emotional stuff well. It's scary and confusing even before the women start bitching about things. Relationships aside, men probablyhave a tough time being happy, since in many cases it seems like they've been sortof pummeled into not ever showing their emotions and the only way they are allowed to have any fun is by putting others down. I think that's the real source of most of the all-out jerks.

And I really do keep forgetting just how STUPID women tend to be. I've only ever had one or two female friends my whole life, so I just don't deal with them much.

Then again. if all women were really after was the Dashing [censored], there wouldn't be so many popular movies about the sweet nice guys. Whole crowds of women in theaters wouldn't be making gleeful noises every time some guy in a movie says something romantic. So there's got to be SOME truth to that appeal.. maybe they're just forgetting about it and putting their heads back up their butts as soon as they put the book down or get out the theater door.


Written by: OrangeBobo

I suppose I shouldn't say much, as I'm currently in a great relationship with a guy who is... amazing. Honestly sometimes more romantic than I am... Sometimes more sensitive than I am. Sometimes more affectionate than I am. But me loves him like that ubblove

And, that being said as well, my boy is 21 redface (That and I could get sent home to Canada if my organization found out we're together... oops!)



Be reeeeeeeally careful here, hun. There are a lot of guys out there who will bend over backwards to put on an act for girls your age, and even more who will get really into it without any clue what they're really doing. People really gotta get into their mid-20s before they have much of any REAL idea of what a relationship should actually be like, and before that time, any romantic gushy stuff is downright dangerous. Romantic gushy stuff is for serious relationships, which take years to develop. Keep your eyes open, don't let yourself get totally drawn in, and please, please please do not sleep with him yet.


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13922
  Posted:I've noticed interesting trends in the Queer communities.

It's all summed up in a joke I once heard:
Q: What does a lesbian bring on a second date?
A: A U-Haul

Q: What does a gay man bring on a second date?
A: What's a second date?

It's interesting to see what happens when you simply remove one gender from the equation.

There are exceptions to any generalization, which is why we call them "generalizations." I have found that women can form strong relationships with each-other on very short notice and that men tend to bounce off each-other like they had the same charge. Gay men are NOTORIOUS for the random sex, the short relationships, etc. Whereas in the words of a friend of mine "single Lesbians have been created in the lab but their half-life is too short to observe them in nature."


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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