"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
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"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
Written by:
God
Originally I stated that-
Concerning God; I don't wish to criticise anyone’s religious beliefs, but this particular consequence of my theory is important and unusual. Most would agree I think, that one of the essential defining characteristics of God, is that of God being 'The Creator' (of everything). If that is the case, then the theory disproves the existence of God because it shows that all conscious beings are mathematical entities that have necessary existence i.e. that it is logically impossible for them not to be. They thus cannot have been created, by God or anything else. Consequently, God, as the 'creator of all', is disproven.
I now feel that this was not a particularly useful way to make the point and, given the importance of peoples religious views, needs further elaboration.
Where religion is concerned, I feel there are, broadly speaking, two varieties of views, those which are healthy and productive, based on unity and love and, those which are typically associated with fundamentalism, whose adherents seem to be more interested in rigid interpretations of religious texts and whose views seem to settle more on divisiveness and, ultimately, hatred.
Religious individuals of the first kind tend to be relatively happy, well-adjusted, tolerant and seem to derive considerable personal benefit from their beliefs. Their focus is generally on using the teachings to improve themselves and their relationship to God.
Individuals of the second kind, in contrast, tend to be more interested in (what they see as) the faults of others and tend to be not particularly happy or well-adjusted; their religious beliefs seem to be a source of anxiety and unhappiness. At its most extreme, in the form of fundamentalism, it can lead to hostility and violence towards others.
How does UTOR relate to these two different ways of belief in and experience of, God?
Where the second type of belief is concerned (the rigid, fundamentalist variety), UTOR does indeed undermine and disprove their notion of God. As fundamentalists believe that their God is the creator of everything, UTOR undermines this, by showing that some aspects of the world could not be created (conscious states of awareness/beings and mathematical objects) because there never was a time when they weren’t real.
I feel this is a good result, as it undermines a set of extremely destructive views, right at their root.
For those however, whose relationship with God is based on love, tolerance etc- who derive genuine benefit from their faith and whose faith, by making them better people, actually benefits humanity as a whole- where these are concerned, I don’t feel that UTOR in any way threatens their beliefs; indeed, arguably, it supports them.
Firstly, the fact that UTOR says that certain things (conscious states, mathematical objects etc) are uncreated, is not going to be a problem to the well-adjusted religious individual- compared to the far more important aspects of their faith, which are based on love, self-improvement etc.
Secondly, unlike the fundamentalists, whose view of God is one of a being with rigid characteristics (male, vengeful, having a plan for mankind and punishing those who don’t match up to that plan, etc), those with a healthy set of views are more likely to have a relationship with a God whose essence is pure, unconditional love.
What does UTOR say about such a being (one of pure, unconditional love)? It says that such a being exists- that such a being definitely, purely by the laws of logic, has to exist and has always done so.
Thus, UTOR disproves the God of the fundamentalists, whilst asserting and confirming the existence of the God whose essence is love.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by:
the the theory disproves the existence of God because it shows that all conscious beings are mathematical entities that have necessary existence i.e. that it is logically impossible for them not to be. They thus cannot have been created, by God or anything else. Consequently, God, as the 'creator of all', is disproven.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
Hi Dave, I don’t understand why you feel compelled to compromise such a great theory.
As they say there is only one god, not two as you now propose.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: jeff(fake)
Surely it also shows that in fact an infinite number of the fundamentalist type gods exist (as well)?
Written by: jeff(fake)
The important side note is that there is absolutely no reason to suppose that they have any contact with our region of reality.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
They thus cannot have been created, by God or anything else. Consequently, God, as the 'creator of all', is disproven
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
Dave you saidWritten by:
They thus cannot have been created, by God or anything else. Consequently, God, as the 'creator of all', is disproven
Dave your theory either proves or disproves the existence of God. You said “God, as the 'creator of all', is disproven.” Now, you say “UTOR disproves the God of the fundamentalists, whilst asserting and confirming the existence of the God whose essence is love. “
What a load of rubbish. War, terror, hostility and violence towards others will only cease when people understand that we come from nothing, and ultimately life has no meaning. It’s the meaning we put on everything, like what is written in books like the bible, that cause the conflicts. The other myth is that our ego or self can be made permanent and we succumb to the illusion of afterlife, reincarnation, heaven and all those stories.
So what you appear to be saying is that beings (ones of pure, unconditional love) exist, that such a beings definitely, purely by the laws of logic, have to exist and have always done so.” Which imo, has nothing to do with supernatural entities like God and more about amazing human beings like Buddha and Jesus.
So what do you think
cheers
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: simian
An important sense of 'exist' would be to have an effect on other entities, to cause them to be in a different state than they would otherwise be. Pi doesn't have that property. But our minds do.
Written by: simian
as a related criticism, i think you cannot seperate the human mind from the physical world, any more than a game of pacman exists without some medium to exist through (such as an arcade cabinet / board game / frenzied nightmare). Hmm, but i suppose UTOR would claim that all possible games of pacman exist, in exactly the same sense as my teapot exists...
i'm comforted that Kant reckons 'existence' can't be used as a logical property of things, and he were cleverer than me
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by:
We have one group of people who believe in a God who supports destructive fundamentalist views that encourage intolerance and hatred: and, another group who believe in a God which is a state of pure, unconditional love.
Clearly, those two 'Gods' are very different entities.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
No, sorry Dave they all believe in the same God. You already told me that.
Written by:
Furthermore, there are many groups not just one group of “destructive fundamentalist” and, and another group that believes in a God which is a state of pure, unconditional love. I’m sure all groups believe they are doing the right thing by their God, and it’s only an opinion or moral judgement on whether they are right or wrong.
I suggest sticking to your original conclusion that, “God, as the 'creator of all', is disproven”. Its becomes really messy when you pander to so called good religious believers. It just doesn’t work when you bring religion into it.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: simian
hmm, ok. the first point: the only things i think exist are things which, directly or indirectly, affect me. i reckon pluto probably exists because i've been told so by other people who found from other information sources that ultimately come from someone who spotted it, because of light bouncing off it. i only think pluto exists, because its had an effect on something.
that's why i think affecting other things is an important property. in what way can a thing be said to exist if it doesn't interact with other entities in any sense?
what does the word exist actually signify in the sense in which you're using it? how would something that exists differ from something that doesn't?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: onewheeldave
Generally, in the 'mathematical realm', as long as it's possible, it does exist.
Written by: owd
On your account of existence, presumably anything in the universe that is more than x light years away, where x=your lifespan, could not be said to exist, as, according to the laws of physics (specifically, einsteins relativity) it is physically impossible for them to directly affect you?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: onewheeldave
According to UToR 'our reality' is that of being states of consciousness that are no more connected than we are to Pi.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: simian
i disagree that my experience of reality is covered by UToR. By what agency do i seem to experience a consistent continuity of mind states (waiting for the tube, getting on the tube, going to work), as opposed to a random mess of possible concepts? (eggplant, one hundred and forty two, green shark). It seems to me that the simplest answer would be the relevance of physically existing entities to my mind state.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: simian
Pi can't talk to the concept of Justice. But i can talk to you. By what sense or agency can things be said to 'interact' if not physically?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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