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Forums > Social Discussion > Christian Voice - The most dangerous group in the UK?

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Written by:
They have taken on Jerry Springer: The Opera, the BBC and are now are planning to tackle abortion clinics. So who are Christian Voice?

Plenty of people have things to say about Christian Voice. John Cryer, MP, called them "fundamentalist thugs". The moderator of the United Reformed church calls them "a disgrace".

Their controversial protests against the "blasphemy" of Jerry Springer: The Opera involved publishing the home phone numbers of BBC executives. They also persuaded cancer charity Maggie's Centres to turn down a 3,000 donation from the show, threatening demonstrations.

Now they are planning to take on abortion clinics. So who is behind this group?

They are a small protest network, led by Stephen Green who describes himself as ex-Anglican and ex-building trade.

The heart of his mission is to return Britain to the 1950s. Back then, he says, it was a Christian country. Ever since, it has been turning away from God and sinking into immorality. Mr Green says he can cite 57 laws that have corrupted Britain in that time.

The "blasphemy and profanity" exemplified by Jerry Springer: The Opera are only two of his concerns. Others include familiar evangelical targets such as divorce and homosexuality; he has a particular concern over gay police. Less obvious enemies include globalisation, GM crops and the EU ("an antichrist totalitarian regime").


This kind of treatment is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ said that those who follow him should expect
Stephen Green
He is currently angered by the royal wedding, which he condemns, whether in church or registry office.

"Colonel and Mrs Parker Bowles should have been divorced for adultery, but they weren't because that would have been too embarrassing," he says. "So in the eyes of God they are still married."

He likens Christian Voice to John the Baptist who preached against the incestuous marriage of King Herod.

"We're saying to the Prince of Wales: 'You cannot have your brother's wife.' This woman is still married to someone else."

Mr Green has been leading Christian Voice for more than a decade, without causing much of a stir, and became its first full-time employee only 15 months ago.

He is cagey about membership figures, but indicates that they are more than 600. By way of comparison, the Evangelical Alliance lobby group represents about a million Christians.

Notoriety

The new prominence of Christian Voice seems to be largely a matter of good luck and good timing, although depending on your position it may be the influence of the good Lord.

It had previously led anti-blasphemy campaigns targeting the BBC, the Sunday Mirror, Peter Tatchell, and the play Corpus Christi.

But in complaining about Jerry Springer, it had an enemy that caught the imaginations and consciences of a large number of Christians, so it was able - by a viral e-mail and letter campaign - to mobilise the phones of many people not usually connected with Christian Voice.

Mr Green has then multiplied the impact of that campaign through the offence caused by his choice of soft targets. First Christian Voice gained major media coverage when it was reported that BBC executives received death threats after he published their home numbers.

Now the cancer charity Maggie's Centres has turned down a donation from the opera, and Christian Voice is heard loud and clear again.

The publicity that came to Christian Voice over the reported death threats was obviously unintended, but Mr Green is clearly eager to capitalise on his notoriety, using it to get his anti-abortion protest on the front pages.

Yet, when I suggest to him that Springer has been good for Christian Voice, he is ambivalent. He does not seem to have been inundated with money and new members, but has had plenty of threats and abuse over the phone. (Mr Green's website is, to be fair, as free with his own phone number as he was with others'.)

"This kind of treatment is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ said that those who follow him should expect," he says.

On the other hand, when I tell him of John Cryer's statement that Christian Voice are "fundamentalist thugs", he seems rather to relish this kind of persecution.

'Disrepute'

"He ought to wash his mouth out with soap and water," he declares. "He should withdraw those comments or resign. He brings politics into disrepute."

But he talks neither in anger or sadness - he laughs heartily and seems to be enjoying himself.

Mr Green disapproves of teaching about other religions in school and especially the celebration of Diwali.

Nevertheless, he has some admiration for Sikh protests in Birmingham against the play Behzti, but says Christian Voice "don't throw stones through theatre windows".

Would he draw the line at breaking the law? Green answers thoughtfully: "Yes... unless the law contravenes the law of God."



Any opinions? It seems religious fundamentalism and zealotry is gaining popularity daily..


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: toobie


Granted that the bible (oh no, not that book again!) tells people to go out and preach, but standing in the middle of the city centre, shouting at people that they will be damned to hell if they do not repent, is not really going to convince ANYONE.




Sure it will. It does all the time. You just need to target the right people.


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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:And at the right time and place. Which is not at Oxford Circus tube station in London at rush hour...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I don't think they'd be there if they weren't getting results or at least feeling like they're affecting people.

They've clearly affected you. You're not their target audience. If the message is getting to their target audience then the advert is effective, no matter how annoying it is to the non-target audience.


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spinningstarlet
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

spinningstarlet

enthusiast
Location: Bradford *rolls eyes*

Total posts: 271
Posted:Hmmmm, i wonder how many people do "convert" via street preaching?

*runs off to google*


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I agree with NYC - it's not that they have 20 ppl/ a day converting to christianity, but that's not what it's about. They make people think and they are in training. As I stated before, I had a few encounters and one of them was in L.A./ Santa Monica. Man I was listening to what they had to say and it MADE ME think.

Maybe the only reason not to "convert" was the fact that the Hare Krishnians held a festival that weekend in Venice Beach. And they were asking ONE question that made me shrug it off: "What kind of a parent is it, who would give his children ONLY ONE chance (a lifetime) and then judge?" umm

I love religious diversity ubblol Since that day I am absolutely convinced that only "patchwork religion" works for me.... shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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robnunchucks
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk

Total posts: 363
Posted:we had a bunch of new born christians (literal bible types) come into our halls while i was at uni they were in the court yard. accosting people i ended up talking to them pointing out the normal stuff (such as if there had been a world wide flood around 2300bc-3000bc perhaps one of the many civilisations around might have made a note of it someware, etc) anyways they were shruging it off as usual, then one of my friends walks up been abit of a joker he came out with the only line i've seen to ever get a reaction out them them



"well the way i see it jesus was a trouble maker, the romans new he was a trouble maker so they crucifyed him for it. And you know in there position i would have done exacly the same thing"



and then he walks off to the sound of stunned silence. we never saw them at our halls again

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:ubblol Class! I'm always interested to chat to people with really extreme views, if only to try and understand what drives people to believe it. I remember a while ago having a long conversation with some Jehovah's witnesses who turned up at the door. These guys were convinced judgement day was coming.

Their argument? "Look at the news, there's wars everywhere, humanity is going down the pan, repent or be judged" Or some such.

My response was that there have always been wars, atrocities and general human nastiness and intolerance, and the only reason we hear about it now is because there IS news, and the internet, and our new global communications network. There is more general tolerance, understanding and charity now than there's been in the whole of human history. It's now polically correct to accept homosexuality, NOT accept racism and intolerance, and to celebrate diversity.

Their response? "errr...... have these pamphlets. Jesus loves you". Nice, effective, logical counter arguments there..... ubblol


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:I wish jesus would stop loving me. He's like a frickin' stalker, I can't get away from him...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Jesus loves you Meg. Everyone else thinks you're gay...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Can God see me when im on the toilet?
Sounds like a bit of a pervert to me. umm

Secondly, when you talk to God, its called praying, yet when God talks to you, you get locked up for being mental.
Whats with that? shrug


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:oh, hang on a second - the flooding thing also needs to be understood, even though this might be offtopicish:

It's not as if you can completely rule out that a flood happened. The Bible actually IS a record and there are theories who would for say proclaim that the street of Gibraltar once was a solid connection between Europe and Africa, broke and wasted all life that was present.

Not what I would put my hand into the fire for - but also not something I would call completely "off". Also Jesus feeding the masses with a few fish and bread is not necessarily completely "off"... But there is a difference between what I can accept (that everyone got fed by merely taking a crumb and scales) and what the Newbornies proclaim (that he initially had three or so fish and bread and after you could find loads of bones on the floor and thousands were rolling on their bellies)...

IMO It comes to a point where consistantly taking the Bible literally is like taking "Harry Potter" or "Lord of the Rings" for granted. Maybe ppl mystify events they can't explain, because they feel stranded and helpless in the face of natural powers. Hence they close the eyes to reality, living in a dream - making them happy, world all of a sudden works - the more share the same dream the better...

Just as a sidenote: US population hits the 300 Million mark... so much for masses sharing a dream... very powerful.

spank completely offtopic


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:The pamphlets those Jehocahs witnesses handed me were hysterical as well, one even had an artists impression of heaven with all these well dressed obviously middle class people with respectable granny knitted wool jumpers standing in a field, with lions and tiger and birds and other animals, and little children playing, all smiling and dancing joyously, with a pretty rainbow in the cloudless blue sky, by a stream.

Bwahahahaha! Rainbows can't form unless it's been raining you morons! Lions and tigers have evlolved as apex predators, they'll eat your kids! Wooly jumpers are SO last year. I also noticed nobody was spinning. Doesn't sound like heaven to me. wink ubblol

Not to disparage anyone's beliefs, but I'm with Bill Hicks on this one.


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Juxtaposeur


Jesus loves you Meg.



You wish jesus would love you. gaylord. wink


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Well there has to be something said about a long-haired hippy-ish guy who hangs around wearing nothing but a loincloth...



(#BlaspheMEEEE... BlaspheYOOOUU... BlaspheEVERYBODY IN THE ROOM...#)


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted: Written by: Sambo_Flux


The pamphlets those Jehocahs witnesses handed me were hysterical as well, one even had an artists impression of heaven with all these well dressed obviously middle class people with respectable granny knitted wool jumpers standing in a field, with lions and tiger and birds and other animals, and little children playing, all smiling and dancing joyously, with a pretty rainbow in the cloudless blue sky, by a stream.




Hey, I got the same paphlet when I was about 10! With the dude stroking the lion, yeah?

I used to get harassed by Jehovas Witnesses when I was about 9 or 10, they kept calling round for me all the time! Eventually my mum got p*ssed off with them and told me she'd get the door next time and get rid of them. She did, but then she kind of got sucked in, I went downstairs and found my mum having tea and biscuits with a bunch of them in the front room!

A friend of mine always says 'No thanks, I worship Satan'.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:One thing that pisses me off about these Christians.....

All those damn charities. Take homeless shelters for example. Lure the most vunerable members of our society in, give them a free meal and a bed for the night, then hit them with "The Word".

Dirty and underhanded,,, IMO.

We need to protest to our governments in order to have these "charities" shut down cold and replaced by,,well I dunno, but anybody but these evil Christians.

On the bright side though, at least the bible doesn't instruct the faithful to kill those who reject "conversion"


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Why do some have the natural instinct to rebel against such brainwashing methods? I think it's [energetically] not wise to use a phrase like "No thanks, I worship the other guy"... or to deliberately drag down the image of somebody I have never met, just to proove my point and to repel. (but then maybe I'm pathetically moderate)

As I din't invite any of them talking to me, I may aswell use my pristine right to blissfully ignore them - without hostility... without resentment.

Yet I like your comment(s) ubblol


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:I like arguing it with them because the way I see it, they don't need to save me, I need to save them. If they're going to try to imprint their views on me, I feel sorry for them, and will try to educate them with rational and logical reasoning.

Obviously it won't won't work on some of these blinkered fools (I'm talking mostly about fundamentalists here), but sometimes, it can lead to an extremely lively and occasionally enlightening debate.

My best friend, who I've known since I was 5 and played in a metal band with, did a degree in theology at Birmingham, and is currently training to be a vicar. He's one of the most sensible, intelligent and rational blokes I know, so naturally I had some very long conversations with him about his beliefs. Never once did he try to force me round to his way of thinking, and he also had a very logical view of the whole thing (i.e. the bible is metaphorical but it's kind of like the pirates code: less rules, more guidelines ubblol). He just felt that there was a god, and that the Christian faith fit his belief system. In fact, we once had a very enlightening discussion of how the multiple universe theory fit's into theology, and his explanation was that it's actually the only way you can have free will and fate at the same time (he went into very well thought out detail which I won't bore you with here).

That's the type of Christian there should be more of. So, I never resent people trying to brainwash me, I find it funny and a little sad. Like I said, if they're going to ask me questions about my beliefs, I'll give them honest and forthright answers. I myself am agnostic BTW.

The most dangerous groups are the ones that brainwash people to kill people of other beliefs from a very young age... frown


My Mind is a Ship
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Soul is the Ocean

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Juxtaposeur


Well there has to be something said about a long-haired hippy-ish guy who hangs around wearing nothing but a loincloth...




Who spent all his time hanging around with men?

ubbangel


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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:and promiscuous prostitutes (bit of a redundant phrase really!)

Mary Magdelene - The Ultimate Fag-hag if those 'Jesus was gay' theorists are to be believed...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:sloppy seconds thou, I mean 13 'disciples' bit much isn't it?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Hey! There already WERE 13 disciples! RUFUS!

I saw that documentary 'Dogma'! tongue


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Juxtaposeur


and promiscuous prostitutes (bit of a redundant phrase really!)

Mary Magdelene - The Ultimate F**-hag if those 'Jesus was gay' theorists are to be believed...



I think some of the actual information about Mary Magdelene is more interesting. Seems that her reputation as a prostitute was invented much later... once again suiting the church's sexist agenda.


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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:You mean the theory that Jesus and Mary Magdelene were married?

As Ian McKellen said, its absurd that they would think that as blasphemy since it'd be further proof that Jesus wasn't gay...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:immaculate conception... I mean, has any man been that dumb since then? No I never slept with another man! It was immaculate conception! It was an angel honestly!

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:juxtaposeur, is suspect what u mean by a promiscuous prostitutes being a bit of a redundant phrase, is that its a tautology.

There is no way in the world people can have good governance if they keep killing each over whos god and morals are the best . Good governance can only be achieved by agreement, not someones morals.

Simple really wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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