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nearly_all_gone
nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2004
Total posts: 1626
Posted:Written by:
They have taken on Jerry Springer: The Opera, the BBC and are now are planning to tackle abortion clinics. So who are Christian Voice?

Plenty of people have things to say about Christian Voice. John Cryer, MP, called them "fundamentalist thugs". The moderator of the United Reformed church calls them "a disgrace".

Their controversial protests against the "blasphemy" of Jerry Springer: The Opera involved publishing the home phone numbers of BBC executives. They also persuaded cancer charity Maggie's Centres to turn down a 3,000 donation from the show, threatening demonstrations.

Now they are planning to take on abortion clinics. So who is behind this group?

They are a small protest network, led by Stephen Green who describes himself as ex-Anglican and ex-building trade.

The heart of his mission is to return Britain to the 1950s. Back then, he says, it was a Christian country. Ever since, it has been turning away from God and sinking into immorality. Mr Green says he can cite 57 laws that have corrupted Britain in that time.

The "blasphemy and profanity" exemplified by Jerry Springer: The Opera are only two of his concerns. Others include familiar evangelical targets such as divorce and homosexuality; he has a particular concern over gay police. Less obvious enemies include globalisation, GM crops and the EU ("an antichrist totalitarian regime").


This kind of treatment is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ said that those who follow him should expect
Stephen Green
He is currently angered by the royal wedding, which he condemns, whether in church or registry office.

"Colonel and Mrs Parker Bowles should have been divorced for adultery, but they weren't because that would have been too embarrassing," he says. "So in the eyes of God they are still married."

He likens Christian Voice to John the Baptist who preached against the incestuous marriage of King Herod.

"We're saying to the Prince of Wales: 'You cannot have your brother's wife.' This woman is still married to someone else."

Mr Green has been leading Christian Voice for more than a decade, without causing much of a stir, and became its first full-time employee only 15 months ago.

He is cagey about membership figures, but indicates that they are more than 600. By way of comparison, the Evangelical Alliance lobby group represents about a million Christians.

Notoriety

The new prominence of Christian Voice seems to be largely a matter of good luck and good timing, although depending on your position it may be the influence of the good Lord.

It had previously led anti-blasphemy campaigns targeting the BBC, the Sunday Mirror, Peter Tatchell, and the play Corpus Christi.

But in complaining about Jerry Springer, it had an enemy that caught the imaginations and consciences of a large number of Christians, so it was able - by a viral e-mail and letter campaign - to mobilise the phones of many people not usually connected with Christian Voice.

Mr Green has then multiplied the impact of that campaign through the offence caused by his choice of soft targets. First Christian Voice gained major media coverage when it was reported that BBC executives received death threats after he published their home numbers.

Now the cancer charity Maggie's Centres has turned down a donation from the opera, and Christian Voice is heard loud and clear again.

The publicity that came to Christian Voice over the reported death threats was obviously unintended, but Mr Green is clearly eager to capitalise on his notoriety, using it to get his anti-abortion protest on the front pages.

Yet, when I suggest to him that Springer has been good for Christian Voice, he is ambivalent. He does not seem to have been inundated with money and new members, but has had plenty of threats and abuse over the phone. (Mr Green's website is, to be fair, as free with his own phone number as he was with others'.)

"This kind of treatment is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ said that those who follow him should expect," he says.

On the other hand, when I tell him of John Cryer's statement that Christian Voice are "fundamentalist thugs", he seems rather to relish this kind of persecution.

'Disrepute'

"He ought to wash his mouth out with soap and water," he declares. "He should withdraw those comments or resign. He brings politics into disrepute."

But he talks neither in anger or sadness - he laughs heartily and seems to be enjoying himself.

Mr Green disapproves of teaching about other religions in school and especially the celebration of Diwali.

Nevertheless, he has some admiration for Sikh protests in Birmingham against the play Behzti, but says Christian Voice "don't throw stones through theatre windows".

Would he draw the line at breaking the law? Green answers thoughtfully: "Yes... unless the law contravenes the law of God."



Any opinions? It seems religious fundamentalism and zealotry is gaining popularity daily..


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted: Written by: Joe

I dont like pircings or tatoos, they make me feel sick to think about them, and im totally against them, or anything that violates our bodys.



Define violate

I'm guessing that a person eating unhealthy foods makes you sick thinking about it?

I know for sure a lifetime of cream cakes and chocolate will do me far more damage than pierced ears.


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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:this crossed my mind the other night, aren't fundamentalists of ANY religion fashists??


telling us we are unbelievers for not thinking the same as them, we are infadels for not folloing their way of life etc................. i know i'm wrong on most of the stuff i post but this is just a question that cropped up in my mind.

how dare someone from half way across the globe tell me i am an infidel for not following THEIR way of life, following THEIR beliefs!!!!

i am my own person, i will choose to believe and follow my own choice and descisions.

in my books religion has a lot to answer for and i choose to follow my own morrals, teaching and guidance, not what some book or scripture tells me i should. people should learn to live and let live. i'm not apposed to jane doe in some far off land let alone down my street from having an abortion.........it's HER choice, it's HER body!

likewise i care not if someone follows another form of religion of belief as it's nothing to do with me the way another person thinks. if someone thinks that another person should believe the same as them, think the same etc they are nothing short of trying to controll another person.


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Mr_Joe
Mr_Joe

Part-time genius

Member Since: 27th Aug 2008
Total posts: 59
Posted: Written by: ado-p


I believe Jesus was one of the greatest people who ever lived, along with moses, buddha, mohammed and a few others. I imagine he is turning in his grave when he beholds the hatred and disrespect some of his followers of today are propagating in his name.



Jesus, yeah top bloke. Moses, brought social justice, good work. Buddha (my personal favourite) is almost impossible to fault.

Now, I disagree with this Muhammed guy. He actively advocated the killing of those who insulted him. In enlightenment terms he had a long way to go. So I'll not listen to him too closely smile

Joe


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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted: Written by: biggins



brit - joe. i dont mind you having problems with other ppl and their actions so long as you do it in the privacy of youor own home.



seriously dude, some of the things you say i interpret as borderline homophobia and bigotry. if ppl are kissing in public then donot look and wanna go dogging or whatever in the car parks at night thwn why should you care? do you live in that car park? why does it bother you when its their choice. be thankful u live in the UK and you are allowed the freedom (at the momoent) to do what yoou wanna do and other ppl have that right too. plenty of ppl in this world dont.





I wish it was a case of that, but it isnt. People go dogging (and everything else) as early as one o'clock in the afternoon around the area im in, and if it goes on this early in one place it will go on that earlyer in many many others. Its disgusting that people up and down the country think that its ok to do things like that. Infact whats worse is dogging and all that is even seen as ok in the first place.



I stand by what I said in that its disgusting to do, not only that but its public indecency. There are laws against it (all be it unclear laws), to try and prevent it. What kind of society do we live in, that people decide flippently which laws they want to follow and what laws they want to egnore. Its sick, theres children going into parks when there off school at those times, there are people who have actuall dogs to walk, or people who want to use them to do a little running and so on. Its not ok for two people to be at it in the bushes when they can expose that sort of thing on people who do not want to see it, or should not in the case of youngsters.



I think i should have made my previouse point a little clearer. I dont thnk we should revert back to thw 1900's completly, but we should take the better points of attitudes and social acceptabilty and go back to those



For instance, what do you think would have happend if a victorian school boy had told his Maths teacher to go and censored himself? Now think what happens now. Did they get away with that unacceptable behavior 100 years ago? No. Do they now? Yes they do! And to add insult to injury they accuse the teacher of sexual harrasment or assault if they try to lead them out of the classroom, and ruin the life and reputation of that fellow human being, for what? The fun of it? Its shocking the way people behave, what with children as young as 11 braking into cars, joy ridding, asbos, spitting at people, spitting on the streets (oh my god thats just foul!)...god I could go on and write a list as long as your arm and not run out of things to put.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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spinningstarlet
spinningstarlet

enthusiast
Location: Bradford *rolls eyes*
Member Since: 29th Aug 2006
Total posts: 271
Posted: Written by: Brit_Joe


For instance, what do you think would have happend if a victorian school boy had told his Maths teacher to go and censored himself? Now think what happens now. Did they get away with that unacceptable behavior 100 years ago? No. Do they now? Yes they do




So bring back corpreal punisment? do you think Parents back Then would tell the child "thats right don't take no censored from them? because they do now.

 Written by: Brit_Joe


A!nd to add insult to injury they accuse the teacher of sexual harrasment or assault if they try to lead them out of the classroom, and ruin the life and reputation of that fellow human being, for what? The fun of it?



But were it so widely known then? was there so much money to be made from it?

 Written by: Brit_Joe


what with children as young as 11 braking into cars, joy ridding, asbos, spitting at people, spitting on the streets (oh my god thats just foul!)...god I could go on and write a list as long as your arm and not run out of things to put.



and who's fault is it that they got away with it?

Times change, and, while i agree there is little respect left, so you really think the "1900'" way of dealing with it wuld work? where the death penalty still stood? where the whole country was governed by one set of morals and belifes? and one faith - with percecution for those who would not follow it?? that sounds pretty extreem to me.



ubbrollsmile


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burningbreeze
Member
Location: Newfoundland
Member Since: 6th Jul 2006
Total posts: 7
Posted:"Why is this little fucker in your belly so much MORE special than you and your life? You're an adult already, you can change the world for the better RIGHT NOW. YOU. Not someone else you happened to give birth to."



"No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for one's friends" (John 15:13)



See a little bit of contradiction here?



Jesus gave the greatest example, and that was laying down His life for others.

when you choose to abort a child, your not thinking of the life of the child, your only thinking about yourself.



How this baby will inconvenience YOUR life, YOUR ego, how the pregnancy will Embarrass YOU,





It's hard to make the abortion decision, but it's even harder to face up to the Consequences of your actions, and take responsibility for them.



we live in a society where everyone wants to shift the blame to someone else, why do you think there are so many lawsuit cases, or divorce? It's all too often people try to take the easy way out, regardless of the Consequences to themselves and others.

Life isn't just molecules and cells, life is a precious gift given to us, to snuff one out because it happens to be an "inconvenience" is more disgusting then using tampons as body bags.



I'm not here to condemn, that is not my place, I'm not perfect, but we do have to live with the decisions we make in life, and eventually be held accountable for them. If you've made a mistake in the past, it's OK



"Now God says He will accept us and acquit us - declare us not guilty - if we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, by coming to Christ, no matter who we are of what we have been like." (Romans 3:22)



I've done my fair share of not so nice things, but in the end I always have someone I can rely on to pick me up when I fall

It's good to be alive

EDITED_BY: upandover (1160095568)


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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted: Written by:

 Written by: toobie


 Written by: Brit_Joe


For instance, what do you think would have happend if a victorian school boy had told his Maths teacher to go and censored himself? Now think what happens now. Did they get away with that unacceptable behavior 100 years ago? No. Do they now? Yes they do




So bring back corpreal punisment? do you think Parents back Then would tell the child "thats right don't take no censored from them? because they do now.




I doubt it. Do you think that its ok for them to do now? In most cases the teachers arnt giving them '[censored]', but thats the reason they think its ok to take a mans livleyhood away from him. Teachers are here to do a job, to help us, and only us, but children these days are taught to 'not take [censored] from them'. Its not [censored], they are providing you with an education, and as such demand respect. They are (or more the case now) should be seen as authority figures, allthough there arnt anymore. Not door mats to step on, because they are the ones who are giving you the skills to function as an adult.


 Written by:

 Written by: Brit_Joe


A!nd to add insult to injury they accuse the teacher of sexual harrasment or assault if they try to lead them out of the classroom, and ruin the life and reputation of that fellow human being, for what? The fun of it?



But were it so widely known then? was there so much money to be made from it?




Thats just another instance of how low we have sunk in society. There wasnt any money to be made from it in the 1900's, if you would have acted like that at school you would first of all gotten punishment from the school masters, then more than likley a clip round the earhole of your parents...or the nanny tongue


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted: Written by: mcp





You know jack about prince charles and the pressures of being in the royal family. The queen has been training and groomed from birth to be queen. She's queen for the rest of her life. You got to choose your job and your interests and your clothes and what you do on your days off. She didn't. Not only did she have to grow up like that, but it's continued her ENTIRE adult life. Prince charles has no doubt felt that same enormous pressure. So he made one mistake under it, that he thought was the right one at the time? And you crucify the man for it. I can't and probably don't want to imagine what it's like to be in the royal family.





I do know that Prince Charles has certain obligations, that he has always known that he has to follow, as a result of him being so privliged to be a part of an institution that has made this country what it is. Which has bloodlines going from Queen Elizabeth II which can be traced back to the 6th century.



But a part of the royal familly or not, if you make vowes to honour, and to respect the woman you enter marrage with, (even if they where false in his circumstance), you keep those vowes. Its an insult to the sanctity of marriage, and the woman you enter it with to do otherwise.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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burningbreeze
Member
Location: Newfoundland
Member Since: 6th Jul 2006
Total posts: 7
Posted: Written by: Brit_Joe











But a part of the royal familly or not, if you make vowes to honour, and to respect the woman you enter marrage with, (even if they where false in his circumstance), you keep those vowes. Its an insult to the sanctity of marriage, and the woman you enter it with to do otherwise.





Amen, well at least the entire world hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket

EDITED_BY: upandover (1160098929)


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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:So what happens if the person you marry changes into something you dont like over time? umm
What happens if they are no longer the person you married?

Are you still forced to stay with them even if they no longer have the qualities that you first saw in them, just because you said "I do" instead of "I dont"?

 Written by: Upandover

Amen, well at least the entire world hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket


ubblol
You havent read many of Brit_Joes other posts have you?
You do know that he should actually be cast into the seventh circle of hell according to Christianity as he is gay?


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: UmbiliciformCraterOnFace



 Written by: Upandover

Amen, well at least the entire world hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket


ubblol
You havent read many of Brit_Joes other posts have you?
You do know that he should actually be cast into the seventh circle of hell according to Christianity as he is gay?



I'm actually quite certain that Brit Joe's posts are a sign of the apocalypse. And his sexuality has nothing to do with it.

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: mcp


is it gross because you mentioned used tampons?

Shouldn't it be: used condoms are bodybags for unconceived children?

Is it wrong that I think none of the above particularly gross?



No, you're wrong for lots of other reasons. wink

And condoms would technically be genocide no? Millions of lives killed in a short period of time, all of the same race, nationality and religion?


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:Flippin' Heck. How can someone that posted up a detailed discription of the aftermath Anal sex on a PG public forum be complaining about peoples public shows of affection such as kissing in public? That whiffs of double standards to me.
EDITED_BY: Skulduggery (1160135955)


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Is eating Caviar or Cod Roe considered genocide since that is eating thousands of eggs in a single mouthful?

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted: Written by: upandover



Jesus gave the greatest example, and that was laying down His life for others.
when you choose to abort a child, your not thinking of the life of the child, your only thinking about yourself.

How this baby will inconvenience YOUR life, YOUR ego, how the pregnancy will Embarrass YOU,



Yes, when I made that decision all those years ago I did do it for myself, and if you had actually read my first post properly you would read that. It was the right decision for me. However it had nothing to do with ego or embarassment, I have never hidden the fact they I had an abortion to anybody. I see no need to. My family knows and so do my friends, and have done for as long as I've known.

And contrary to what you may believe, although the initial thoughts are for yourself when something like this happens, most of your thoughts are for the life that you would be able to give this child.

 Written by: upandover

I'm not here to condemn, that is not my place, I'm not perfect, but we do have to live with the decisions we make in life, and eventually be held accountable for them. If you've made a mistake in the past, it's OK



No you're not here to condemn, or judge perhaps?

Getting pregnant at such a young age was a mistake.

Having an abortion was not.

 Written by: upandover

"Now God says He will accept us and acquit us - declare us not guilty - if we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, by coming to Christ, no matter who we are of what we have been like." (Romans 3:22)



You are entitled to your own beliefs and I very much respect that, but please also take into consideration, that other people have different beliefs/ morals and make different life choices and that they also deserve an equal amount of respect to yourself.


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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted: Written by: upandover


Amen, well at least the entire world hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket



do you not read the news?

;o)


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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted: Written by: upandover



"Why is this little fucker in your belly so much MORE special than you and your life? You're an adult already, you can change the world for the better RIGHT NOW. YOU. Not someone else you happened to give birth to."



"No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for one's friends" (John 15:13)



See a little bit of contradiction here?



Jesus gave the greatest example, and that was laying down His life for others.

when you choose to abort a child, your not thinking of the life of the child, your only thinking about yourself.



How this baby will inconvenience YOUR life, YOUR ego, how the pregnancy will Embarrass YOU,



It's hard to make the abortion decision, but it's even harder to face up to the Consequences of your actions, and take responsibility for them.



we live in a society where everyone wants to shift the blame to someone else, why do you think there are so many lawsuit cases, or divorce? It's all too often people try to take the easy way out, regardless of the Consequences to themselves and others.

Life isn't just molecules and cells, life is a precious gift given to us, to snuff one out because it happens to be an "inconvenience" is more disgusting then using tampons as body bags.



I'm not here to condemn, that is not my place, I'm not perfect, but we do have to live with the decisions we make in life, and eventually be held accountable for them. If you've made a mistake in the past, it's OK



"Now God says He will accept us and acquit us - declare us not guilty - if we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, by coming to Christ, no matter who we are of what we have been like." (Romans 3:22)



I've done my fair share of not so nice things, but in the end I always have someone I can rely on to pick me up when I fall

It's good to be alive





The last sentence may be the best of the entire thread.



Now it feels good to YOU to be alife, but have you ever met ppl who are not sharing this enthusiasm? Have you seen children dying from starvation? Who are forced into prostitution? Who have no direction, no aim, no hope? I tell you what: Change the current circumstances in a manner so we can guarantee that every baby will have a happy childhood and equal chances to get strong in life and I am likely to close shoulders with christians on abortion.



But most certainly abortion is not an easy decision for any halfway sane "gonna-be-mum".



Whilst the church is condemning birth control as well as sex before marriage, at the same time they are shutting their eyes to what is de facto going on in the world. Women are raped, forced into marriage, face domestic violence and sexual abuse inside marriage, plus child abuse and deriving pregnancy. There are pretty good reasons, why a woman does not want to carry a child in this framework and none has to do with "Ego"... Have you ever had friends who had to live in an orphanage? umm The world is not black and white!



If the decision to receive a child is not a happy one, coming from the heart - there is little benefit for life. I have seen parents abusing their child, simply because that little bugger changed their lives in a manner they couldn't possibly predict.



Certainly you may say that an abortion takes away all potential and that from misery, great things can derive - hence you have to accept that some ppl are not taking chances to that extend.



Christianity is so much about suffering. You will have to accept, that some ppl do not want to share this philosophy. And therefore: As much as you wish to be tolerated in your faith - practice tolerance on ppl with a different faith and a different outlook on life in general. "Judge not... for ye will be judged." I guess that's also one thing that Jesus said. Whilst so many are daring to quote him on various occasions, they completely disregard that he also said: "The one without sin, may throw the first stone..."



Now Christians ARE throwing stones, they kill doctors who performed abortions, they kill mothers who chose to terminate pregnancy... Tell you what: IMHO Best is to live up to your very own ideals and to act as an example to others.



Christians will definately have to accept that there are others on this planet who have a different philosophy and all those threats of "judgement", "eternal damnation" - keep them to yourself, please. Do not perform blasphemy by pretending you EXACTLY KNOW what god's will is and pressing this on others - or maybe you will have to suffer the consequences... wink



For example: Ppl. who naturally wouldn't be fertile, use artificial methods to get a child. Isn't that also disregarding god's will? He made them sterile - maybe he had a reason to? No, it's all "pro-life" "pro-baby"... Death is bad, killing is bad... tell me: Why do we have to die then? Some ppl strongly believe that GWBush is an ubbangel others oppose this and see a devil in him. Now who is right? I suppose you don't really know, you do not wish to judge... how on earth can anyone KNOW EXACTLY on other topics?



Beware of fumbling with ppls choices because YOUR god has told you to do so.



I am certain that he doesn't need anyone who pretends speaking on his behalf.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted: Written by: FireTom



Christianity is so much about suffering. You will have to accept, that some ppl do not want to share this philosophy. And therefore: As much as you wish to be tolerated in your faith - practice tolerance on ppl with a different faith and a different outlook on life in general. "Judge not... for ye will be judged." I guess that's also one thing that Jesus said. Whilst so many are daring to quote him on various occasions, they completely disregard that he also said: "The one without sin, may throw the first stone..."





clap


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:brit_joe: You obviously haven't thought about what I wrote. Do that and then I've respond to you.

upandover:

Life is not a precious gift. It's a specialised form of chemical reaction. Nonetheless, for some life is not the priviledged easy cruise it is for us "westerners.

"It's hard to make the abortion decision, but it's even harder to face up to the Consequences of your actions, and take responsibility for them."

People who make that decision HAVE faced up to their responsibilities. It's YOU who haven't. You're letting a book make your decisions for you. Everybody else is making their own decisions. Because we're ADULTS, and we let advice advise us, not tell us what to do.

You can't bring a general cultural problem to bear on this issue. It has nothing to do with it.

The easy way out? Which is easier, letting abook dictate your actions, or having to spend the time and energy to consider your decisions in the light of present circumstances everytime you have to make a decision. Never having the same set of circumstances each time, so you have to consider again and again. Cos I think it's fairly obvious that christianity is the easy way out. It's much easier to say that this book is right, than to take into account 1000 years of moral philosophy and human psychology and bring it to bear on your own problems with your own circumstances in mind.

MY life, MY ego, MY feelings. Well I should care about them shouldn't I? They are MINE? Nobody else is going to do it for me. And if I assume they are, that just makes be a dependant on somebody. I'm a young independent adult. I don't need to reply on others. I take responsiblity for MY own actions.

"If you've made a mistake in the past, it's OK"

It's NOT okay to have made a mistake in the past. How is it okay? It was a mistake. You should take responsibility for your mistakes, and try and learn from them and come to terms with them so you don't make them again in the future, instead of just dismissing them as going to be 'forgiven'.

firenice: +1 clap


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted: Written by: mcp





The easy way out? Which is easier, letting abook dictate your actions, or having to spend the time and energy to consider your decisions in the light of present circumstances everytime you have to make a decision. Never having the same set of circumstances each time, so you have to consider again and again. Cos I think it's fairly obvious that christianity is the easy way out. It's much easier to say that this book is right, than to take into account 1000 years of moral philosophy and human psychology and bring it to bear on your own problems with your own circumstances in mind.







Im sooooo glad you posted that Meg - i wrote something similar earlier but decided not to post it as i didnt want this to turn into an attack on someones beliefs......... but now your open it up a little..



Abortion is so VERY much personal choice subject to circumstance and the individual or couple that are going through it..... thier "choice" should take into account thier own current feeling and judgment of what is best based on current life and not some apparant "guide book" written by who knows all those yeas ago.......



I appreciate belief often forms part of our decision making, however for a decision which is possibly the biggest one who will ever make and have to live with either way..... i believe that choice should not be based on "popular belief, or what is expected or the done thing by any relegion" that to me is short sightedness and is not actually making that choice "personal"



I had to make this choice myself ......



shrug



"If you've made a mistake in the past, it's OK"



Like the old saying goes - i prayed and prayed to god for a bike for xmas................ i never ever got it, so i stole the nextdoor nieghbours bike and asked for forgiveness smile



Mistaks are mistakes and dont become OK in time, your faith tells you it does, although the mistake is still there........ you just need telling its ok to make you feel better about it rolleyes



I wont get started on christianity......... as i do have some respect............ for people smile









"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:I'm really really glad this thread was started.

I know its mainly focused on the subject of abortion for a lot of it, which isn't exactly on topic, but I think a lot of good has come out of it and some very good points have been raised and discussed.

I came to terms with my choice a long time ago, dealt with it, dealt with a lot of criticism I received for it and have never hid it from anybody, even though sometimes it may have been an easier option.

I'm also so immensely proud of some of the honesty from people that this thread has provoked, from people who I didn't expect it from aswell. smile

I'm also proud to be able to call most of you my friends in one way or another, and am genuinely impressed by the amount of open minded discussion that has gone in here.

You all rock, you all know who you are.

Thankyou for being the people you are. smile


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: mcp


It's YOU who haven't. You're letting a book make your decisions for you. Everybody else is making their own decisions. Because we're ADULTS, and we let advice advise us, not tell us what to do.




Good sheep don't 'think' or 'make decisions'. They keep their head down and follow.

Baaaa.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:yeah, but I'm a crap goat too.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:I've always preferred cows to sheep anyway. tongue

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:gay.

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by: maus



Yes. I can actually. Its called science. And thats also why abortion is legal up to 20 weeks gestation. It isn't a life at that point.





Maus: I respect that as a true comment regarding yourself and others, but not regarding everyone.



I considered my son as a life from conception until birth, will consider any future children I concieve as lives and know that there are other people who feel the same as I do.



Similarly there will also be people who share your view.



Neither is wrong because the people best qualified to make judgements about ourselves are ourselves.



And, to remain back on topic, that's exactly what I think Christian Voice should respect smile



Just wanted to post the other side of the coin hug


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:Thanks Spanner, that perhaps wasn't worded in the best way. Again I was just trying to show the other side to the previous argument, but I can see how it may be perceived that I meant that it is that way for everybody.



My apologies, and consider it edited.



smile



 Written by: upandover



When you consider aborting a child, you can't just look at what the fetus is now , this "no heartbeat, no brain, no feeling" thing, your distroying a life that has so much potential,





 Written by: moi

Yes. I can actually. Its called science. And thats also why abortion is legal up to 20 weeks gestation. It isn't a life at that point.




EDITED_BY: maus (1160148373)


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: maus


 Written by: upandover

you could be aborting the next president, great inventor, musican... and the list goes on. ,



And what if I'm meant to be the next great president, but because I had a child at the age of 16, I've had to alter my life choices?




That would be a good point except.. c'mon... a female president?

God made you a woman so you can stay at home and have babies with men that would be president. Otherwise there'd be female popes and high ranking clergymen... clergywoman... whatever.

You're a rib. And not even a whole one.

You'll do what I want with your uterus and every other part of your body.

Now go make me some pie.

wink

/sarcasm


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:*phew* thanks for pointing that out NYC, almost got myself in trouble there!

I'll get straightback to my duties.

What is it exactly you have planned for my uterus? Well whatever it is I'm sure it will take you countless attempts and a long time to get done. After all, being a man thats how you're meant to be.

Any preference on pie flavour?

wink

/sarcybitchbackatya


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