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Forums > Social Discussion > Christian Voice - The most dangerous group in the UK?

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Written by:
They have taken on Jerry Springer: The Opera, the BBC and are now are planning to tackle abortion clinics. So who are Christian Voice?

Plenty of people have things to say about Christian Voice. John Cryer, MP, called them "fundamentalist thugs". The moderator of the United Reformed church calls them "a disgrace".

Their controversial protests against the "blasphemy" of Jerry Springer: The Opera involved publishing the home phone numbers of BBC executives. They also persuaded cancer charity Maggie's Centres to turn down a 3,000 donation from the show, threatening demonstrations.

Now they are planning to take on abortion clinics. So who is behind this group?

They are a small protest network, led by Stephen Green who describes himself as ex-Anglican and ex-building trade.

The heart of his mission is to return Britain to the 1950s. Back then, he says, it was a Christian country. Ever since, it has been turning away from God and sinking into immorality. Mr Green says he can cite 57 laws that have corrupted Britain in that time.

The "blasphemy and profanity" exemplified by Jerry Springer: The Opera are only two of his concerns. Others include familiar evangelical targets such as divorce and homosexuality; he has a particular concern over gay police. Less obvious enemies include globalisation, GM crops and the EU ("an antichrist totalitarian regime").


This kind of treatment is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ said that those who follow him should expect
Stephen Green
He is currently angered by the royal wedding, which he condemns, whether in church or registry office.

"Colonel and Mrs Parker Bowles should have been divorced for adultery, but they weren't because that would have been too embarrassing," he says. "So in the eyes of God they are still married."

He likens Christian Voice to John the Baptist who preached against the incestuous marriage of King Herod.

"We're saying to the Prince of Wales: 'You cannot have your brother's wife.' This woman is still married to someone else."

Mr Green has been leading Christian Voice for more than a decade, without causing much of a stir, and became its first full-time employee only 15 months ago.

He is cagey about membership figures, but indicates that they are more than 600. By way of comparison, the Evangelical Alliance lobby group represents about a million Christians.

Notoriety

The new prominence of Christian Voice seems to be largely a matter of good luck and good timing, although depending on your position it may be the influence of the good Lord.

It had previously led anti-blasphemy campaigns targeting the BBC, the Sunday Mirror, Peter Tatchell, and the play Corpus Christi.

But in complaining about Jerry Springer, it had an enemy that caught the imaginations and consciences of a large number of Christians, so it was able - by a viral e-mail and letter campaign - to mobilise the phones of many people not usually connected with Christian Voice.

Mr Green has then multiplied the impact of that campaign through the offence caused by his choice of soft targets. First Christian Voice gained major media coverage when it was reported that BBC executives received death threats after he published their home numbers.

Now the cancer charity Maggie's Centres has turned down a donation from the opera, and Christian Voice is heard loud and clear again.

The publicity that came to Christian Voice over the reported death threats was obviously unintended, but Mr Green is clearly eager to capitalise on his notoriety, using it to get his anti-abortion protest on the front pages.

Yet, when I suggest to him that Springer has been good for Christian Voice, he is ambivalent. He does not seem to have been inundated with money and new members, but has had plenty of threats and abuse over the phone. (Mr Green's website is, to be fair, as free with his own phone number as he was with others'.)

"This kind of treatment is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ said that those who follow him should expect," he says.

On the other hand, when I tell him of John Cryer's statement that Christian Voice are "fundamentalist thugs", he seems rather to relish this kind of persecution.

'Disrepute'

"He ought to wash his mouth out with soap and water," he declares. "He should withdraw those comments or resign. He brings politics into disrepute."

But he talks neither in anger or sadness - he laughs heartily and seems to be enjoying himself.

Mr Green disapproves of teaching about other religions in school and especially the celebration of Diwali.

Nevertheless, he has some admiration for Sikh protests in Birmingham against the play Behzti, but says Christian Voice "don't throw stones through theatre windows".

Would he draw the line at breaking the law? Green answers thoughtfully: "Yes... unless the law contravenes the law of God."



Any opinions? It seems religious fundamentalism and zealotry is gaining popularity daily..


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:*get's a shawl, gloves and warm shoes in Bangkok*



@MCP: If you think a post is inapropriate, you may report it to the mods, they will check and delete it. Period. You are just as much the ambassador of moral consciousness on this board as anyone else - yet the final executive... got my point?



But if you dare to predicate that I'd HATE Muslims and Chinese, etc. I have the right to set the record straight and I may point on evidence to back this up, no?



So much for that.... wink



Sure we do not have to tolerate mistakes that are likely to inflict on childrens rights, "just because they are human" but what does any of this has to do with Brit_Joe disliking ppl kissing in public?



It sounds awfully conservative to me: Just because s/o posted something in the past, he's forfeited his right to word his opinion - on another subject - that might appear contradictory. At least if he does so, he's got to accept that everyone starts yelling at him and everybody else has to stand aside and watch... sorry dude, this is not how MY world works shrug



*gives up on put the worms back in the can* meditate



UCOF, Maus - you wouldn't want to pass me some too? I guess I've made my point and do not see much reason to expand this, exept some blind ox mixes me up with a red silk towel...

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1160744745)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: FireTom


@MCP: If you think a post is inapropriate, you may report it to the mods, they will check and delete it. Period. You are just as much the ambassador of moral consciousness on this board as anyone else - yet the final executive... got my point?




No but then I didn't really care in the beginning. I'm intolerant. I don't care.

 Written by: FireTom


But if you dare to predicate that I'd HATE Muslims and Chinese, etc. I have the right to set the record straight and I may point on evidence to back this up, no?




I don't care. I had no idea about that argument till NYC mentioned it. I don't care about it now, it was NYC that brough it up. Why are you replying it to me?

 Written by: FireTom


Sure we do not have to tolerate mistakes that are likely to inflict on childrens rights, "just because they are human" but what does any of this has to do with Brit_Joe disliking ppl kissing in public?




You brought it up, you tell me!

I'll tell you my opinion: There is one moral standard for human behaviour. (Whether we or me have reached that standard is another issue, and whether what that standard is, is another issue, as well as whether it is complete or allows for variations is another issue.) Letting things slide that are 'wrong' is not right. Like hypocracy.

 Written by: FireTom


It sounds awfully conservative to me: Just because s/o posted something in the past, he's forfeited his right to word his opinion - on another subject - that might appear contradictory. At least if he does so, he's got to accept that everyone starts yelling at him and everybody else has to stand aside and watch... sorry dude, this is not how MY world works shrug




Is this still on the thing NYC brought up? You've got a bit of an ego complex don't you?

I'm still talking about brit-joe. Not you. What are you on?


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Tom, Me doth think you protest too much. And at the wrong people.

I still have a copy of your bigoted post. I knew someday you'd come back with a "never said it". I certainly won't post the entire thing since it got deleted but here are a few choice sentences. Your words, not mine:

 Written by:

...I neither respect them, nor their point of view. Their idoelogy goes completely against anything that I consider OK and therefore I personally find it totally OK to rant and dump on people who are:
.
h) Muslims
.
n) people who believe in different faiths, scientific theories or lifestyle, or ideologies in general than my own

q) Chinese...

The list goes on...

Let's pick... Muslims: If their view of the world prevails and conquers the planet, I will loose a lot of freedom and be engaged in numerous religious duties and such...

Let's pick... Chinese: If they continue to work for no money, I will loose any reasonable way of income, if they continue to demand more resources as they currently are, there will be none left soon and if they continue to exploit the planet as they are, it will get destroyed...

Therefore I think they all should be put into madhouses and cured from their mental illness. There is no justification for being (part of) any of the above...



I'm NOT going to rehash old arguements. I did want to remind you of your intolerant words since you seem to have forgotten them.

Again, this started out of folks commenting on Joe's intolerance. If you're not being intolerant then there's no reason to continue in this thread.

But I like the whole "Yelling at MCP for stuff that I said"... mostly cuz it's funny to have people yell at MCP for stuff she didn't do.

And meg, I'm sure you did something to deserve being yelled at and weren't. Now the universe is even. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:"I'm sure you did something to deserve being yelled at"

That'd be the hair wouldnt it? wink ubblol


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:".I neither respect them, nor their point of view. Their idoelogy goes completely against anything that I consider OK and therefore I personally find it totally OK to rant and dump on people who are:..."

ZOMG! eek

I give up. You win. I can never be this intolerant! frown


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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maus
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia

Total posts: 4191
Posted:*munch munch*

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:*puts aside the popcorn*



@MCP: See IMO there are loads of moral standards, however.



This is what I am talking about: It may be okay for someone to write about anal sex in a PG forum and yet dislike to watch two ppl kissing in front of him. Maybe he's not making the connection, maybe he's self centered, maybe he simply changed in the meantime............ and a million more reasons beyond and below. What the censored do I know?



Maybe you met B_J personally and you can well say that he's a bigot and hippocrate. I don't know him outside this board and I have my own "moral standards".



I simply disliked the way you were acting up against him. He may be a complete jerk. I am not drawing too many conclusions about ppl out of their posts - at least I'm trying.



Maybe you're just looking for a punching ball, or someone to hurt his/ her feelings? Maybe you're frustrated that this or that move didn't work or that it's turning winter?



I am no shrink either, so I also don't know whether or not I got an "ego-complex".... you tell me. Maybe I should think about it?



You involved yourself into what I was telling NYC - nothing more, nothing less. Besides: sometimes I also call girls "dudes"... depends on the situation.



[edited for completeness] NYC you may even post it on Empire State I don't care... scroll up and read what I got to say about it. I have the feeling that there are other ppl on this board who understand what I was saying and trying to point out.



For further completion: At this time there was quite a significant number of posts on this board that IMHO were so censored intolerant that I got sick.. physically. It made me sick to read them. Ppl who hide their ugly ugly faces behind social games, fake smiles, who pretend to be tolerant and open minded and have as much (self) reflection as a black hole, who act out and simply wait for others to do a wrong move to tare them apart.



You will never find me claiming that it was not my thread - trust me on this one.

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1160748425)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:<nips off the screen, grabs some popcorn, laughs at meg, and runs back onto the screen.>

ucof: ubblol


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Then again: by re-reading my above post I become aware that by far I am not halfway as tolerant as I would love to be.



*is that sweet or salty?* umm



But thanks for bringing this up again NYC - makes me reconsider, whom to call when biting the big apple wink tongue

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1160749560)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:We're all not as tolerant as we'd like to be, but where better a place to start a discussion on tolerance than by examining our own intolerances?

Unless you prefer to get your opinions from a script.


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: FireTom


*puts aside the popcorn*

@MCP: See IMO there are loads of moral standards, however.




That's cool. It's not my view but I can see why people would think that way.

 Written by: FireTom


This is what I am talking about: It may be okay for someone to write about anal sex in a PG forum and yet dislike to watch two ppl kissing in front of him. Maybe he's not making the connection, maybe he's self centered, maybe he simply changed in the meantime............ and a million more reasons beyond and below. What the censored do I know?




That's also a fair point. Maybe he is those things, maybe not. That doesn't really make any difference to me thou, as I would still feel it necessary to point out his failings in that particular post. Maybe he doesn't know? Maybe what I say will help him? (Not likely, considering my tone) maybe it will at least make him think about and question his own principles / values?

These are good things, in my book.

 Written by: FireTom


Maybe you met B_J personally and you can well say that he's a bigot and hippocrate.





Nope. But the point is still that his post is bigoted and hypocritical, and I can only assume that the person who made it has the same qualities.

 Written by: FireTom


Maybe you're just looking for a punching ball, or someone to hurt his/ her feelings? Maybe you're frustrated that this or that move didn't work or that it's turning winter?




not particularly, thou many things descend into that, and it is coming up to winter... wink His post just hit me square in the face, I felt obliged to reply.

 Written by: FireTom


You involved yourself into what I was telling NYC - nothing more, nothing less. Besides: sometimes I also call girls "dudes"... depends on the situation.




Then you should use @NYC to tell me it's not directed at me...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted: Written by: Brit_Joe



That and I noticed you where in that thread aswell skully, where is your comdemnation to everyone else who posted about sexual activitys? Oh thats right you wont bother writting any up because you like to stick your claws in one person at a time, witch.



Do me a favour and actually put me on ignore instead of throwing punches about it with your comments. I like the piece and quite I get from it.







I'm not here calling any of the others out that posted in that (now deleted thread) thread because they are not in here now complaining about the lowering of moral standards in our community today and saying that they feel we should go back to the moral standards of the 1900's. If we did go back to those moral standards you can be sure that you wouldn't be posting in an open forum about anal sex or how you enjoy certain aspects of it as that would surely get you into huge trouble as sodomy was illegal (see criminal law ammendment act 1885 ) Famously Oscar Wilde fell fowl of this law.



I for one would not want to go back to those days. If you really researched it and looked at the facts of what it was like back then, I'd like to hope that you really wouldn't either.



If you don't like things that go on around you and you know they are illegal (Dogging etc) then report it to the police and keep on reporting it until they do something about it. If it's something that is legal but you find it distasteful all I can suggest is that you don't look or try and get the law changed so it is illegal. Do you really think that people french kissing in public should be made illegal though?



Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hi guys,

I know I haven't been around here for aaages, so feel that I barely have grounds for this, but please be advised that we have received complaints about posts in this thread, and the hosility displayed by certain members towards others.

Please chill out. smile Other than that, there is some really well constructed debate here. smile


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yay! Our plan worked. Flashies back!

*High 5s everyone*

hug


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Awwww, so this whole "let's get angsty at each other" thing was all a ruse manufactured just for me? That's so NICE! I missed you guys smile

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Rehi Flash smile Good to have you back. Find me surprised and abused by this "conspiracy" too. Well disguised guys clap well done umm wink



[edited after charles' post] But this is a good reminder: Before seeing myself up the same gallowtree, I will notify the mod's... Thought I could well handle this, mainly 'cause I grew some additional skin since dealing with online hostility...[/edit]



I close shoulders with Skully on her last post: the moral standards of 1900 are not what I would like to go back to either - which is why I personally am NOT symphasizing with "Christian voice".



But I believe that they have the untouchable right to word their opinion and try to influence society in their interest and according to their belief. The same right applies to anyone else - usually most of the (smot poking) part of our society doesn't much bother to change anything, because everything is perfect already...



But why do I believe in this? Because I have no clue, what the ultimate truth is and all my so called "freethinking" "open mindedness" and "ideal of a tolerant society" may as well be bullscrap... or only applicable to me.



As to the guidelines:



Yes, I believe it's the truth that everyone in our world has the right to articulate their opinion, no matter whether they are right or left wing extremist, moderate, bigot or contradictory.



It's more than fair to practice the tolerance I would like to receive myself and by this we will build goodwill and better friendships.



As some seem not to share this view I like to change their angle of perspective and observe the topic from a different view - which will certainly be beneficial.



To the initial question of this thread: No, I do not think that "Christian Voice" is by any means the most dangerous group in the UK. The only danger that I sense here is that they trigger the intolerance and conservatism, that is present in every individual human being already.



"Maybe the most frightening thing is to completely and totally accept your self." (or similar by C.G.Jung)

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1160815962)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Don't forget the mods, who try to keep their opinions to themselves...But like to read these things from afar anyway...

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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston

Total posts: 2666
Posted: Written by:



So as long as someone else has already done something that others might find offensive it's ok to drop your morals and join in?

If you can't see how hypocritical that sounds then I'm with MCP

<ignores brit-joe some more because he still hasn't managed to read and understand...>



Skully, if your going to be in a thread, would you please just stick to your convictions, instead of pulling punches like this all the way through a topic multiple times, and then come back a day later and expect to be taken seriously with a question.

Im out of this thread, there are too many people who just want to use this section of the forums to agrovate people and flex there internet muscles behind the safty of a computer screen. This was a good topic until it descended into taunts and name calling.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Huh?

Where did I call any names?

Wasn't it you calling me a witch....?

I was just answering the question you asked me.....

shrug


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:stop it. naughty.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Skully check this out!!!! :::



 Written by: Brit_joe

*** You are ignoring this user ***



"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Whatever happened to te good old days.

See what happens when you dissappear flash....

ubblol

This was a great thread, its been aaaages since everyone threw in there 2c.


Love is the law.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted: Written by: various

"Ignorance is bliss" (Anonymous)



"Ignore it and it will go away" (Environmentalists quote under the image of planet earth)



The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about (Derek Bok)



If you think education is expensive, try ignorance (J.W. von Goethe)



He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. (A.Einstein)



He must be very ignorant for he answers every question he is asked (Voltaire - seems to apply to me)



The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge. (E.Hubbard)



Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. (Conficius)



Fear always springs from ignorance (R.W.Emerson)



Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. (M.L. King)



Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. (B. Franklin)







For more insights on ignorance clicketyclick...



*hopes to get ignored by MCP in the future, too* wink



[edit]And as to specify the above: MCP you're completely right that it's better to practice ignorance, as long as you're a) incapeable to handle the situation and b) cause you're convinced that the outcome will be destructive if you do otherwise. In this case ignorance is even necessary to keep at peace.



But IMHO this is about learning, experiencing ourselves, practicing tolerance. In my ideals we are building a world where people are able to live, work and walk together, regardless of their "levellage" intellectually or ideologically.



As long as you're not deliberately trying to hurt me and inflict on my personal rights (of freedom, physical and mental inviolability for example), you're free to do whatever pleases you... This is how my world works - exclusively valid in my space, so to say.



Please excuse me, if my words may have appeared offensive in any respect...

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1161002916)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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robnunchucks
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk

Total posts: 363
Posted:it always annoys me when people use religous belefes in serious debates e.g. abortion, euthanasa, stemcells murder etc if everyone beleaved the same religion i would understand and that would be fair enough but they dont, it baffles me. they fail to realise that my perception of there religion exacly the same as there perception of every other religion on the planet. Debates should be based on reason and fact not religous beleaf. if i were to quote from The Parable of Hank as evidence in a serious debate people at best would ignore me and at worse think i was mad/unstable i dont understand why people like this seem to expect people to responde any diffrently confused

My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:firetom: I don't really believe anymore that anything I say will have any visible effect on brit_joe, and I know that many things he could say will draw me into further pointless posts. You can't win an argument with a rock after all. You can only look stupid, cos you're talking to a rock.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:You also can't win a staring contest with a rock. Or a game of bloody knuckles. But I'm pretty sure I could beat one in a bike race. If I had a good bike.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Aeori


Aeori

member
Location: Dorking(home), Sunderland(uni)

Total posts: 77
Posted:I hate christians like that...

Fear my wrath and call me muffin for I am the muffin of doom!!

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robnunchucks
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk

Total posts: 363
Posted:i learnt that lesson from my high school RE teacher after he tryed to tell me that noahs arch was a litteraly true story that happend word for word as writen in the bible. this resulted in a month long running argument before he finaly refused to talk to me about it any more on the basis that i was just a kid and there for didn't know what i was talking about.

of course now im not a kid and i still think he was delusional smile


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:So we're back on topic, are we? Thks to Rob who is putting his efforts in getting the discussion back on track...

 Written by: www.gotquestions.org

Question: "Can / Should we interpret the Bible as literal?"

Answer: Not only CAN we take the Bible literally, but we MUST take the Bible literally. This is the only way to determine what God really is trying to communicate to us. When we read any piece of literature, but especially the Bible, we must determine what the author intended to communicate. Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture, and then will give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs. But, this is not what God intended. This is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). In order to understand the Bible, we must realize that it was written over a period of 1,500 years, and was finished over 1,900 years ago. We need to understand the culture in which it was written; we must also consider the context of words, phrases, and chapters. At the end, I will recommend a couple of books that will help in understanding Scripture.



THE "worst" christians I ever came across are those who - in order to counter ANY argument about the Bible or christianity - started to take the Bible absolutely literal. IMO this is so completely fanatic, that any kind of reason ceases. Your previous link is exactly that, rob: "Putting fingers in the ears, going: "lalalalala, I'm not listening"

Unfortunately I couldn't find a link for "the newborn christians"... If you meet any, talk to them - I find it quite amusing in the meantime (after having ceased to de-missionise them, ceased to bring them to reason - which is exactly the same as they are doing, vice versa)

Can't do anything, but appreciate them as for who they are shrug meditate

The problem with "X-tians" in general is, that most of the "serious" ones have the urge to missionise and convert people...

I had quite some encounters and most of them were everything, BUT pleasant... as you put it MCP (on B_J) - it's like argueing with a rock... you can't, except with a grindwheel on your side maybe...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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spinningstarlet
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

spinningstarlet

enthusiast
Location: Bradford *rolls eyes*

Total posts: 271
Posted:RE: new born christians.

I used to hang out at a coffee shop that was run by new born christians, who generally were pretty nice people, let us hang out there pretty much all day drinking latte's and stuff. I pretty much stopped going after i got sort of conned into attending a bible study - apparently it was the least we could do after sitting in the cafe spending money, and drinking coffee we had bought from there. At the time i was still a practicing Catholic - and made this known - but was put in such a position that i couldn't really say no. i stayed for 10 minutes before making my excuses (very politely of course) and leaving.

I've not really been back.

Granted that the bible (oh no, not that book again!) tells people to go out and preach, but standing in the middle of the city centre, shouting at people that they will be damned to hell if they do not repent, is not really going to convince ANYONE.

You can't force people to follow a set of belifes, and to keep on topic, that is what CV are ultimatly trying to do.

Imagine how boring life would be if everyone was the same!


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