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Page: 12
fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:Preface:
Ok, so I did a Durbs, and have found nothing satisfactory.
I know there are tid-bits out there, but I am seeking to make a thread for easy searching/ reference on Wire Wool

(inspired by reading the Fire Breathing glamourization thread)

I'm fairly certain that many people aren't completely aware of the dangers of spinning steel wool, especially those new to HoP. Like Fire Breathing, spinning steel wool is extremely dangerous, particurlarly for the careless. For those that choose to spin fire, most know to have a SAFETY, fire extinguisher, blanket, first aid equipment, covered fuel cans, etc. But basic fire safety will only take you so far.

As part of a performing troupe at my uni, I spin quite a bit. Sometimes when we feel the conditions are right, and the mood warrants it, we will spin steel wool. This is undertaken in a parking lot with no cars around. Even still, accidents can occur.

One time, during a filming shoot in the late winter/early spring, a member was spinning wool and some embers that flew off happened to land in the dry leaves/brambles next to the lot. Had someone not noticed that there was light where it should be dark, it was quite possible that there could have been uncontrollable flames.

Full clothing cover is so extraordinarily important I cannot begin to stress it. Most fire spinners know, or should know, that natural fibers are better to where while twirling. This extends even more so for steel wool, as you have embers that burn hotter flying all over the place, some that land places you don't expect, and leave singe marks. My advice...if you're going to do it, cover as much skin as possible...most importantly your hair.

The intensity of the light is another thing to watch out for. Having spun several wire wools myself, even with my eyes shut, and a beanie over my head extending down to my neck and over my eyes, the light was brilliant. Even taking pictures of it leaves the eyes dazzled.

If you're not the one spinning, and are the safety, be ready to douse anything right away, but be sure you're way out of the way of the sparks, because once they start going, they fly extremely far.

And there are of course people that think you can do it anywhere, even in a small courtyard surrounded by buildings, grass, trees and the audience.

I know that it is a spectacle that is amazing to see, but even so, I fear that there are too many people that will simply go and attempt it without stopping to think what they are doing.

Spin Safe hug


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Also very important, and so apparently obvious that it would seem not to need saying, is-

make absolutely sure that you're well away from people when spinning wire wool

(I bring up this point because I have seen someone walk into the middle of a group of spinners and lit up wire wool poi; no one got hit by sparks, but it was mainly down to good luck).

---------

Having been around on one of the occasions where the infamous 'Black Bush' poi where being tested (these where long-burning wire wool poi using very large amounts of wool) I very much felt that if I'd been using them (I was offered a go, but refused for reasons of self-preservation) I would have wanted to be wearing safety goggles.

A burn to the body can be very serious indeed, but, in all likelihood you will recover- damaging an eye (or eyes) is far, far worse.

(In the UK industrial style eye protectors can often be found in 'Pound Shops', so there's no excuse for not owning a pair or two, it's surprising how useful they come in for other stuff as well, once you've got some).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:it really pissed me off at Sheffield when people starting spinning wire wool too close to people.

Its not only disrespectful, but also rediculously dangerous.

and if you're not careful, you'll have someone's eye out.

Im still to spin wire wool actually. smile


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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Wire wool was amazing to do but I feel it is an accident waiting to happen and often the users just dont get far enough away or warn ppl that they are starting up.

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:I haven't been back to the juggling club in town since I witnessed a guy doing wirewool in a residential area, at the end of a street with cars parked at the side, and most of the sparks going over the wall onto a motorway. At one point a lady walked straight passed behind where he was spinning. The guy doing it couldn't spin 3 beat weave. His friends thought it was great, but I thought it was horrific. I was waiting for someone to call the police. Personally I've only ever done wirewool once, and that was after a couple of years wanting to, in a big field with damp grass and lots of other HoPpers.



I'm all for more education on safety of it.


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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Another note, make sure you are spinning WELL away from your fuel depot. It's a bigger deal for folks who spin with Coleman's camp fuel since it is much more volitile than lamp oil or parafin.

I know the advice I offer probably seems obvious, but...it never hurts to cover all the bases...even the obvious ones.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:just measure out a 75-100ft radius that NOBODY except your safeties are allowed into, and you should be fine...granted wind conditions are good...

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:out of interest, as this is a safety thread, does anyone actually have a 'safety' person(s)? having met well over 100 HoP people now it seems a bit like an urban legend to me

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Actually, yes.

The groups I spin with always have someone with a wet towel as safety.

My experience while visiting the UK? I didn't see anyone on safety, but parafin isn't nearly as dangerous as Coleman's camp fuel, so a safety person isn't as critical.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hmmm. I think it is a particularly US thing, as Colemans is used much more readily there... but even at the irish fire gatherings we always try to stay alert.

We don't have a safety person, per se, but the core members of the group try to look out for newbies, ensure people with cigarettes aren't standing over the bucket. Common sense stuff, really. And we tend to have a fire blanket and burn cream at gatherings.

It does work... anytime I, or anyone else, have accidentally set themselves on fire, someone always rushes over immediately to sort it out biggrin


Getting to the other side smile

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darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:2 abc extinguishers manned and ready to go, a damp towel, and a hose on location
if the safeties cant make it to the event one of us will spin the other covers...


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:I have never, in all the meets I've been at seen anything like a 'safety person'.

I'm not saying they weren't there, simply that I wasn't aware of it (assuming that by 'safety' we mean someone keeping a good eye on the spinner, knowing what to do if something goes wrong).

The only time I've ever seen so much as a damp cloth at a spinning meet is when I've brought it myself.

I have heard people say, after a meet- 'Ah... you may not have known this, but all the time there was a damp cloth in my bag in case anything went wrong..'

at which I can't help feeling-

1. could you even find your bag in pitch black, in the panic of having to deal with an emergency

2. why's it in your bag, rather than in a specific, lit up area, that eveyone is fully aware of, in case of emergency

--------------

Personally, for a normal spin I don't feel in need of a constantly watching safety; however, if I'm doing something dodgy (new, giant wicks; moves at the edge of my ability etc) then I'll insist on one. If no-one (who I can trust and rely on) is around, then I won't do it.

For newbies, pretty much anything they do is at the edge of their abilities, so I'd urge them to arrange a reliable safety.

------------

Things to think about when being safety for someone-

1. People light up at dusk- remember that soon it gets very dark, especially when looking at fire stops your 'night vision'. Stuff you can see and know the location of when you start, soon becomes invisible.

Use a lamp, candles, LED light to have an area illuminated full time- that's where your safety stuff goes.

2. Heavy duty vinyl coated garden gloves are really useful if youre pulling burning wicks off someone- when acting as safety, wear some.

(get the largest size for ease of putting on and off, but, when spotting, have them on already). They're also useful for 'wringing' excess fuel from wicks (especially with fire ropes) thereby reducing 'spin-off' excess.

3. As safety- watch the spinner; don't get distracted by conversation etc

------------


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:In our group, we generally don't have a designate safety, but there is always someone, who, if not spinning, is ready to jump in. Rotating the duty works just fine. For more advanced spinners, it is still good to have a safety, as we do at all performances, but it is especially important for new spinners

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Mand
Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada
Member Since: 24th Oct 2003
Total posts: 2317
Posted:This might be a litlle offtopic on the wire wool subject, but on the subject of safety people...

I started spinning in the Uk, not really knowing about having specific safety people.

Then, when I started spinning in Houston I started to understand the need for them. As Spitfire says, coleman fuel (which most spinners here use) is a LOT more flamable than paraffin or lamp oil.

With all the people I've spun with over here, we have at least one safety person with a damp towel.
I've seen this person many times having to stop the spinner to smother small flames on their clothing (usually only with coleman fuel).
I've seen this person stopping random spectators (and dogs) from walking too close to the person spinning.
I've seen this person put out small fires on the ground (which could spread very quickly on dry ground).
And - in my eyes the most important one - this safety person has been there when a 7yr old boy managed to wrap a wick around his wrist. (But don't get me started on that!). angry

Really, it's just what's more appropriate for different fuels.


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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Amber Flames
Amber Flames

member
Location: Ardfern (Kind of near Oban). A...
Member Since: 25th Feb 2005
Total posts: 58
Posted:Again, possibly offtopic but does anyone know anything about firewater? I've heard that its the best poi fuel you can get but that its illegal in most countries.

They use it in Australia though and I'm going out there soon so I'd like to know a bit about it.

Anyone know anything?


Usually me on fire (rather than flames being amber coloured)

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Thing that ive noticed, is that generally when someone is spinning, there is usually a group of people watching.

Not only watching them spin, but also if they catch on fire.

smile

Ive seen someone run out and smack MarkP on the head at Reclaim the beach once as he set his hair on fire.
It was hilarious. And I stand by that. He carried on spinning not knowing his hair was on fire until he noticed the person running at him at full speed, that and he wasnt hurt. So I reckon its always funny as long as no one gets hurt.

smile


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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Amber Flames

Again, possibly offtopic but does anyone know anything about firewater? I've heard that its the best poi fuel you can get but that its illegal in most countries.

They use it in Australia though and I'm going out there soon so I'd like to know a bit about it.

Anyone know anything?



From what I've heard there was once a substance called 'fire water' used by jugglers who wanted to fire breathe but disliked the taste of paraffin.

'Fire water' had additives to kill the taste and was quite popular. However, it was banned due to people accidently mistaking it for a drink- it's lack of taste meant it could be accidently consumed by mistake.

In hindsight as well, I think it was established that it was less safe than normal fuel as the additives used to kill the taste where pretty toxic.

Things got confusing when, after the ban, a sheffielder decided to bring in a substitute by buying a large quantitiy of what I believe was pure paraffin. This was paraffin but without additives and therefore is actually safer (less toxic) than other fuels.

Despite the fact that it was not really anything like the original 'fire water' (being less toxic and also having a paraffin taste), he decided to market it under the name 'fire water'.

As for the stuff in Australia- I don't know what that is; it could be the original stuff that was banned everywhere else, it could be 'pure' paraffin, or it could be something else entirely.

You should get a msds sheet for it, then we'd know.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:How pure is Aviation fuel??

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:supposidly pure kerosene

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Thats what I heard. I also heard that the airlines have to run off the first part of the fuel each time and throw it away. Havent any contacts in the industry though to try and access it.

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

Delete

mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted::off topic:

but as this is pretty much the only sparkler poi thread on hop

if you uppsed the size of teh wire wool container, gave it a restriced exit poit, would teh burn last longer or a shorter amount of time


Step (el-nombrie)

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Come to South Perth this Wednesday and bring some fine wire wool and you might luck in.

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:South Perth this Wednesday and if you ask around for me I will be able to help you with anything you want to know about wire wool.

I'm one of the regulars who use it all the time.


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BurningByron
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 10th May 2002
Total posts: 340
Posted:Fire water
aka pegasol 3440, shellsol T, isopar G... there are a few different chemicals which are essentially the same stuff but made by a different oil companys. Fire water is one of those specific chemicals but re-bottled and priced at about 500% the cost... easy money. The stuff is pretty much aorund about as toxic and carciogenic as kerosene, there havent been enough studies to show that one is more dangerous than the other... both will harm you. They are not solvents but are classified as light oils which do not get broken down or easily removed by the lungs, or so I've been led to believe. If you can get any of the above chemicals for a reasonable cost go for it, sure as hell beats kero (parrafin).


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:I saw that somebody wanted something on 'sparkly poi', so I'm bumping this

*BUMP*


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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* felicidade *
* felicidade *

newbie
Location: Vitoria, ES - BRASIL
Member Since: 4th Aug 2005
Total posts: 1
Posted:ok... i'm from brasil... and I want to know more details about this wire wool, 'cause i didnt find a "translation" to this word, so im having difficults to find out what it is. i thought about a similar thing we use to clean saucepans, is it???
im a real newbie, and i havent fire spinning yet, im practicing fot that, and ive already got my fire poi. im just not confident enough to light it up!!! ill wait... ill practice...

thanx!!!


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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:wire wool is the same as steel wool, and can be used to clean things: however, they can also be lit and when spun in cages, create a fireworks-type effect. In my gallery, there's a pic of 2 ppl spinning at the same time.


However, I don't recommend it if you're not confident, especially if you're inexperienced.


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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aka rita queen of cheese
aka rita queen of cheese

member

Member Since: 20th Aug 2005
Total posts: 80
Posted:i love wire wool, esp when getting rust off things it's funny. i never thought of spinning with it before though,it sounds extremely fun, but dangerous
biggrin


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JayKitty
JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey
Member Since: 7th Nov 2004
Total posts: 534
Posted:I'm proud to say that my girlfriend and I both spin poi and we always spot for each other. Saftey first.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

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Juzblan
Juzblan

newbie
Location: Australia
Member Since: 29th Nov 2004
Total posts: 2
Posted:fire water is great, the flame is alot brighter than most fuels and is also alot bigger, the other bonus is that it is odouless. Way worth picking some up from juggle art... im not sure other places stock it. It is more expencive than kero and campers tho.

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Neser
Neser

member
Location: North Queensland
Member Since: 27th Dec 2005
Total posts: 63
Posted:Written by: flid

out of interest, as this is a safety thread, does anyone actually have a 'safety' person(s)? having met well over 100 HoP people now it seems a bit like an urban legend to me



I have two safeties. tongue A really good friend of mine, she's pretty well educated about fire safety, know's what to do in an emergency, etc plus she's been trained in first aid as well.

The other is actually my father, he's apart of an emergency rescue team, has done a TON of safety courses, both theory and pratical so I have a lot of faith in him. wink

Though, I'd like to point out that I normally have one or the other watching. Normally there's about two people watching (say another friend in addition to my 'safety' friend) and one person spinning. Or at the group we spin at, all the spinners pretty much look out for each other so its all good. smile

Anyway, back on topic with regards to the wire wool spinning eek

Talking with some other people who are planning to start spinning; they had absolutely NO idea about the dangers of spinning with wire wool.

They just saw it as a 'cool effect' and wanted to try it. I think there needs to be some way for them to be more aware of the dangers of spinning with the wool. I for one havent even dared to try it, for fear of my own safety and wekk being x_X

It's convincing other's the dangers behind it. =\

Anyway, good thread so I'm bumping this up. smile

~ Neser


Fuel your fascination, burn your desire and dance with flames

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Page: 12

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