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Havokist
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Havokist


Location: Manchester

Total posts: 2530
Posted:has anyone else noticed that time seems to be just about the only thing that can't be controlled? it's been proved that weather can be controlled, but only recently, and that free will can be influenced greatly, by some extremes of actions, yet time seems to be the one remaining hurdle in man's 110m run towards total dominance. some theories on time control were put forward, yet none have proven to work, and even if we knew how, life could actually stop existing as we know it. deadlines could last forever, people wouldn't have an excuse to be late for work, and death could be temporarily halted.

what i mean by this post is, has anyone else got any views over the problem of time? and possibly that there is never enough of it?


We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Aside from the scientific answer, do you really think people would want to do it?!!?

Let me put it this way:

We know how to add some features of one organic life form to another. For example adding the anti-freeze part some of polar fish to plants to stop them getting frost damage as easily, but people hate the idea of it so much that they will destroy property and openly break the law over it. Its the same with cloning.

Scientists get accused of playing god when they try to do things like that, so how would people react if we could control time?

Supposing for a moment that we could change time (AFIK its not even theoretically possible) there is a massive social moral point to it.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Burning Brain


Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones

Total posts: 321
Posted:you can only travel to the future if you forget about the past.

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Written by: Burning Brain

you can only travel to the future if you forget about the past.



or if you own a Delorean and put in a flux capacitor


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Burning Brain


Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones

Total posts: 321
Posted:flux capacitor...ubblol

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Time can't be controlled in the sense that you mean because time doesn't exist in the way that we believe it to.

The theory of Cause and Effect happening sequentially has been blown out of the water within recent years. i.e science used to believe that first something happens, the cause, then afterwards something else happens, the effect.

However there is now scientific 'proof' which says that the effect can happen before the cause and that time should no longer be seen as a line from past to future.

As for Time Machines, well I have 1, so do you. It's inside your head and you call it your Brain. It can percieve Now as the present and it can dip into the past and future at will with equal accuracy. (IMO)

Also it's really important to point out that in many ancient cultures there was no word for past, present or future and no tenses at all in the language. They effective lived in an eternal Now.

Anyhoo, time flies by when you're having fun, and goes remarkably slowly when you sit and watch the hands of a clock for 60 seconds, or in some emergency situation. I'd say that we have a fair degree of control over time.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Havokist
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Havokist


Location: Manchester

Total posts: 2530
Posted:but as you say, scientists proved that time isn't a continuous line, so it must be a line that overlaps itself, so why shouldn't it be possible to make a 'jump' at one of these overlaps? but then it would leave the problem of being able to re-live certain moments over and over again, yet you may still age.

We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:humans do control time in a way - by inventing it... If there was no such thing as three o'clock, then you wouldn't be in a hurry to get there, or be worried about getting there too early..... in which case you would sort of jump time... except in a biological sense... i don't know, that probably doesn't make sense, it's all a bit hypothetical/philosophical/Non's mental rubbish....

Although there is a paper that i read for my dissertation that talked about different types of time - organic space time - and these differen types of time had different measures.... it was a thermodynamics paper, not that i know a damn thing about thermodynamics, it will still quite interesting, maybe i'll see if i can find the ref.


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Havokist
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Havokist


Location: Manchester

Total posts: 2530
Posted:that would be an interesting read...

We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:all depends on how you mesure time

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:How has cause-effect been blown out of the water "scientifically"? I am not privy to any such experimental 'proofs' of such, unless by "modern" you mean the last couple hundred years and by "proof" you mean logical deductions in philosophy by Kant and others...

I subscribe to the idea that cause-effect is just the human way of perceiving and not really part of the universe, but I've not heard of any evidence to such a conclusion... please enlighten me.

As for time being the "last hurdle" I disagree. We still don't even have a reasonable explanation for "forces" let alone anything else. There was a book put out a while ago, and I forget what it was, but it had an analogy that went something like this: "God" said "let there be light" and the Big Bang happened. Evolution, blah, blah, blah, man is here and starts messin with science. Now as man's scientific knowledge increases and gets more and more advanced, so does the level of energy (all of existence is energy) that we can control and use. So we start getting into higher dimensions, and build this self evolving computer to help us figure out everything about existence. The problem is it needs to observe everything up until the end of the universe (everything collapses in on itself, let's leave out modern findings about continuous expansion for now) in order to accuratly learn everything. However by that time "man" is long since extinct, and so having no one to print out it's answer for, and with the universe collapsing in on itself, the extra-dimensional computer gathers as much matter as possible together to save itself, and creates a huge Bang that starts the universe over again. And it said unto thee, let there be light.

Anyway, what I meant to get to was that as science advances we can control more and more of the energy that makes up reality. Our understanding of things right now is extremely limited at best. We say "There are forces" and yet we can't even tell what causes these forces, only that they are present. Like, gravity, the weak and strong forces of the atom, electromagnetism, etc. We USE these things, but we do not actually HARNESS them or control them by any means.


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Havokist
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Havokist


Location: Manchester

Total posts: 2530
Posted:but in use of them, we in some ways control them, as we use the fact that they're predicted to keep doing the same thing, so we take that, and see how it can be made to suit our needs. its like ceisium (not sure on spelling) it can be very dangerous, but it has the most reliable atom vibration and hence why it's used in an atomic clock.

We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:i8beefy2 , i figured i may as well put my reply to your pm in here too,

If you hit the link below and scroll down to "5. Entanglement in Practice" it's gives a Good introduction to the experiment Psi told me about.


Written by:
ello, it's all to do with 'quantum entanglement' and Causality ~ google found this link, i've not read it but it should put you on the right track. http://fergusmurray.members.beeb.net/Causality.html
br>
If you are particularly interested in this field then chat to Psi ~ he once told me, in detail, about an experiment which observes some crazy things to do with this. Do you remember pointing a laser through 2 thin slits in your school physics class? You end up with a pattern of light and dark bands of light on the wall. It turns out that this experiement, when studied at phd level shows direct links to quantum entanglement.

It's quite a mind bender

Have fun, i've also been hearing rumours that the speed of light isn't constant ~ that means a lot of modern physics could get blown out of the water.

matt



Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:But use is not control. Control would require an absolute knowledge of the actual underlying fabric of reality: which we do not have. We merely use our predictions of the effects of things, we do not control them. We never CHANGE them, which would constitute control, we USE them.

And that whole causality being disproved thing looks to be bunk. These experiments seem to say something about "action at a distance" but little about causality. Granted I havn't fully studied the things at work in them, and I will talk to some of my professors about them to clarify them a bit for myself before commenting further.


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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Hmm...

possibly totaly irrelevant speculation here... lets see how I do...

Space and Time appear to be effected equally by gravity.

The more the gravity, the more the curvature (giving rise to worm holes (space/time folds) at it's potential extreme (black holes)

We can't and won't for a long time be capable of testing this theory but it sounds plausable so far, right... wink

Now, lets assume Antimatter has the absolute opposite effect of gravity (antigravity, is this true anyone?)

So matter space/time could curve INTO antimatter concentrations.

Maybe an antimatter planet could, at its centre, be the extreme future of matter.

Maybe this could be harnessed in the distant future, or maybe it's total nonsence... wink

Jo.


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:I'm permanently living in the past...

It's the only explaination for my pay packet.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Matter! haha what a silly nonsense term. There is no definition of matter except as a concept and yet so many people still think of the world as having an underlying material substance.... Sillyness I tell you! Sillyness!

smile


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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:Time as it is can be controlled. My photography teacher explained to us last year that everything is really eternity and time is a measure of one part of eternity. for example, lets say one metre equals one hour, if i walk 8 metres i have just spent eight hours walking. i started walking at zero hours(where there was no time) and ended walking at eight hours(where time stops again) Time is only the interval between events that we remember, its all in our heads!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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_So_
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Skinny poi maker
Location: Moscow, Russia

Total posts: 313
Posted:mmm/// I just thought....

If we are talking about TIME as a naturan phenomenon... then yes, we can't control it..

But if we are talking about time as a concrete second/hour/day/year thing, then... hm... people invented the time counting things - calendars, watches and all that... thats how we tried to be in control of time. The word "time" itself was invented by human....


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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:But measuring DOES NOT CONSTITUTE CONTROL!!!!!! It might constitute use of effects, but not control.

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