Forums > Social Discussion > Love of children in the modern world

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
well also as a lover of kids i know what you mean. i am lucky enough to have had police checks etc but after all they are only ok until they are broken....anyway
it drives me nuts, you are not alowed to:
take pictures of your children in the swimming pool
at school including sports day
coming out of school.
when working with children if you do not have written consent if a child falls over you can not pick them up and put them on your lap and hug them etc etc etc

but you know what i have lots of kinds in my house and all of them well the girls give me hugs. i take them round town etc...lol when i actually get out the house.
i am fed up with treding carfuly just incase.

i did write alot more on this but have just deleted it cause i went on way too much about stuff.

but the point was, if a person is going to take pics etc of children they will do it, no matter how many rules you put in. its not going to stop them.

as for the Men and children thing goes which does drive nut i think its a sad and sorry world if a dad feels uncomfy about bathing their child, if grown people can not interact without it being seen as wrong, ie huge street water fights involving kids and adults.
ok so i have lost my flow due to deleting bits but i think you get the idea.....
oh why i remember
we need more males in the system that deals with kids, in a possative way. unforutently the rest of the 'adult' population need to be re educated, because with thanks to the media a dad can feel guilty for wanting to bath their children/ have baths with them. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
I understand exactly what you're saying... i think it's terrible that men in western countries are finding it harder to form close relationships with children because of this fear of abuse.



It also has a worrying impact on the men who would like to spend more time with children, people like yourself, who are then restricted from expressing the caring part of their personalities.



When you travel to non Western countries it is often much easier to see the strong bond between men and children. It was one of the things I enjoyed seeing the most... especially in Laos, that men would take such pleasure in the innocence and play of children.



Please don't anyone reduce this thread to the whole 'you can't talk about this because there might be paedophiles around'... the point is that that kind of fear and hysteria is what is causing damage to our society in the first place.



Everyone using this site already knows the dangers that paedophiles pose... but the fear of them is also causing untold damage on how young girls and boys are growing up... without the male role models that generations past have been exposed to.

Getting to the other side

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
exactly as a parent of an almost teenager i do worry, with everything, him going out, going on the net etc. but i let him do these things non the less. including *Shock horror* letting him go swimming in the outside pool in his swimming shorts where people can just walk by and see him.
and yes i know lots of parents who do not let their kids go because "You never know who is watching them" in that case why let your kids out at all 'cause "You never know if they are going to get ran over"
Oh and when i finaly get my youth group up and running i will be after men to help.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
I have worked with kids in a number of different situations most of them physicaly or mentally ill. Its kills me when they reach out for human touch you have to say no.
a kid will come up and hug you cause its a natural thing for them to do.its a sign of trust but because of all these rules you have to give a quick one then stop. Granted these rules are necessary and should be enforced and I have had police background checks and I had to have at least four references to get my job. However when I work at camps i act like a child for 10days straight, camp over i go out into the real world where you forget you cant do these things. im am so tired of being on a bus and a kid likes at you and you stick out your tongue and every justs looks at you assuming male playing with kid=>must be peado!!

these people are sick and unfortunatly they will figure out a way of doing these things under the radar of the law. Western men have been keeping there emotions wrapped up for years and then society says we shouldnt do that, show them to the world but know that we have got to a stage were a lot of men are emotionally aware and you show this and people are weary.

I love my job, I couldnt live with out seeing a kid smile over something small or seeing them fill with pride after the achieve something they didnt think they could. I learn so much from them and I will never give that up.I just wish people would take it at face value and stop assumming.

Goth we definitly more men in the system and get over this fear associted with men working with kids.bit of a rant but I hope you get the idea

Grow old but never grow up

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Is there anything to show that paedophilia has become more common recently? Or have people just become more afraid of it? Older boardies - wisen me please!

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: Fear-Tine

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Goth we definitly more men in the system and get over this fear associted with men working with kids.bit of a rant but I hope you get the idea

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thats ok the first thing i was going to post was about 3 times longer and more rantier than yours.....lol.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
i was going to go on but I thought twice.

Grow old but never grow up

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: nearly_all_gone

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Is there anything to show that paedophilia has become more common recently? Or have people just become more afraid of it? Older boardies - wisen me please!

---

its not that its more common, just more in the public eye with thanks to the internet among other things. also more cases have been put in the public eye and of casue scare mongering occured. lets face it the only things they had before the internet was catolouges etc.
but you know one thing that drives me completely insain.
If i want to ake any pics of my kids in the summer, my youngest hates clothes, i have to do it on a digi cam cause they refuse to develop naked picks of kids.
this really me off as its taken the innocence out of childhood. and its not the perves who have done it, its the ones who do the "You never know what could happen crew"
BTW where do people stand on letting paedophils list be public? nearly_all_gone if you don't want this on the thread let me know it was just a ponder, not trying to turn the thread around.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: nearly_all_gone

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Is there anything to show that paedophilia has become more common recently? Or have people just become more afraid of it? Older boardies - wisen me please!

---

great point nearly_all_gone - the media question.



back in 2001 chris morris tried to point out that this would happen but people just shouted louder at him.



i worked at a school just for one day and while i was there, i hugged loads of kids that i didn't know - generally, if someone near me wants a hug, i'll give it to them



i didn't think too much about what it meant at the time as i don't regularly work with kids and i've never had a police check.



its sad that thinking about it now, rather than thinking "how cute were those kids?" and remembering how much fun we all had, i'm thinking "was i stupid to put myself in that position?".





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: coleman

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i worked a school for a day and while i was there, i hugged kids that i didn't know - generally, if someone wants a hug, i'll give it to them

i didn't think too much about what it meant at the time as i don't regularly work with kids and i've never had a police check.

its sad that thinking about it now, rather than thinking "how cute were those kids?" and remembering how much fun we all had, i'm thinking "was i stupid to put myself in that position?".


cole. x

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ya know what please try and remember how great it feels to hug kids, lets face it its a fantasic feeling.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
i love just helping kids learn new stuff. even if its just how to tie thier laces or even kick a football. but if i go over the field and start kicking a ball around with the kids then i get some dirty looks which i think is not right!

also i love taking out my little cousins to the beach and to wildlife parks but that is different as thier apart of my family!

I'm going to leave the army and run away to the circus

if not i will just become a MI5 agent !!!

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: coleman

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back in 2001 chris morris tried to point out that this would happen but people just shouted louder at him.

---

I'm a huge fan, actually



GF, that's a really difficult issue but it's fine if you want to bring it onto the thread! I'm not sure where I stand on it.. on the one hand I believe paedophilia is one of the worst things a human being can do, and that no amount of time in prison or therapy is really going to "reform" a paedophile.



At the same time I'm not sure I can condone something which means that certain people are simply going to be made more afraid for the safety of their kids, as paedophiles are going to have to live somewhere once released and people will have to live near them. Although they should be aware of the dangers their kids may face... it's too hard to slove.



Also all the horrible business of vigilante gangs going and trashing houses and beating people up when they've wrongly believed them to be paedophiles from their "information".. things like that are inevitable because if Joe Public decides to go and break someone's head he doesn't have to follow guidelines to do it, and will end up getting it wrong.



What I want to say is let them burn for what they've done and are still doing, lock them up and throw away the key. But that's not workable, obviously.



There really is no good solution. I do think that crimes such as these are unforgivable, and those who commit them should have no right to complain about whatever treatment they recieve after doing such absolutely horrible things. At the same time, there's always the possibility of a misscarriage of justice. I don't know how easy it is to do, but I guess that people with certain fetishes/whatever would find it all too easy to stumble across horrible things like this on the net without meaning to.



The whole issue is just so sad.
EDITED_BY: nearly_all_gone (1109087384)

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Well, i think the rules are pretty extreme. I had a need to grab a child when i was working in the shop a few months back.
A fan was on at the back of the till, the person on the till didnt see this little kis poking its fingers through the bars, almost touching the spinning blades inside, the parents werent anywhere near either, my instinct was to rush over pick the kid up and take them to safety, if i hadnt done, who knows what that kid would have gone through, i felt frightened for the kid first, but after my first thought was 'oh god! the parents are gonna go mad at me for handling their child. The parents couldnt be bothered, just told him off and took him out of the shop with no thanks you's headed my way, im just glad i didnt get into trouble.

My parents are both teachers and the rules in place, although made for the kids protection, actually make the teachers life a lot more hazardous and worrying.

Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
see i am not sure if i would want to know or not.
i know how i feel about them and also know i would go round and kill them, but at the same time they do tend to rehouse them in cheaper accomodation which unfortuently is council housing or housing association. which are where alot of kids are.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: ASTRO FAERIE

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Well, i think the rules are pretty extreme. .......

My parents are both teachers and the rules in place, although made for the kids protection, actually make the teachers life a lot more hazardous and worrying.

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exactly all these rules so called protecting the kids isn't. if a child doesn't feel they can trust a teacher or adult it puts them at a higher risk should they become in a situation where they need to be able to trust an adult. the main ways children gain trust is through interaction, and if an adult backs off when a child needs them they will remember this and keep things bottled up.
the NSPCC are pushing school councelors into schools which i agree with but they wouldn't be needed if the teachers were alowed to make bonds with the kids.
this can also be seen as the reason of the increase of disruption in class, and the ever expanding gap between generations.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Written by: GothFrogette

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this can also be seen as the reason of the increase of disruption in class

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That's such a good point, I hadn't thought of that connection. From a young age all the kids around me seemed to start hating their teachers for one reason or another - probably the fact there was only ever detached praise or punishment at the very most - and by the time we'd reached upper school this was pretty extreme in a lot of cases.

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
well i have not researched it yet, kinda came into my head while typing, but its going to be researched..... i should get paid for this sort of thing

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Cool discussion...

This topic is close to my heart, not because I work at a school or with kids but because I'm a parent of 2 boys. This isn't necessarily right on topic but an offshoot from a diferent perspective I suppose...

I get afraid of other's warped sense of what is decent or not to impact on how I interact with my kids. An example of what I'm getting at is...

My partner and I sleep naked in bed. Both my boys (4.5 and 2.5 yr olds) sleep in bunk beds in our room. This works for them and us until they reach a point where they start to desire their own sanctuary. (a whole other debate)

My eldest son has ALWAYS taken his clothes off in bed (and even during the day as well). It's just an idiosincracy he has. He loves being nude. We tell him he has to put clothes on if he wants to go out the front because I honestly think he just doesn't care. I'll be really sad if/when he loses that innocent enjoyment. Bt as far as I'm concerned this is A-OK in our house.

The thing here is....let's say it's 2 am. He has a bad dream and comes and jumps in to bed with us. All 3 of us are then naked and in a bed together. There is NO (and I can't emphasise this enough) sexual overtone at all in this scenario. Yet it could easily be construed in a negative way in the hands of the media or an overbearing "do-gooder". Especially if we were reported for it.

My father was naked around me and I'm naked around my kids. This to me is no big deal. We're all naked underneath clothes anyway. I want them to be comfy with themselves and others bodies. There ain't no need to be shy and I hated nothing more than being with a birl who couldn't just be free - in other words unhealthy body image. There of course may be a point where it isn't really appropriate anymore but it will have nothing to do with paedophilea but more about it being uncool for them to have a fat 40 year old playing PS2 with them

Another example is the first footage of my older boy hitting his brand new trampoline, he's naked. It's funny as hell footage because he is soooo stoked about it. I tried to show this to a friend and they became instantly uneasy and told me they didn't want to watch it because he was naked. I respected their request but I just thought "Man! I KNOW you don't want to do anything untoward to him....why are you so afraid? I'm missing out on sharing a great moment as a parent with you because you've been brainwashed in to thinking seeing a kid nude and having a blast is somehow wrong."

It's that kind of uneasyness that spins me out. We're all being made to freak out about this kind of stuff. I encourage my boys to hug everyone we know when we're saying goodbye or hello. Show some affection and lay some skin on those you love! If my boys are misbehaving and in a place/doing something they shouldn't (especially to another kid) I'd EXPECT a teacher to grab them by the ear and pull them out. (figure of speech but I'm sure you understand what I mean)

I get scared that someone will find out about our relaxed attitude to this stuff, report us and then all of a sudden my whole family comes under the microscope. Then someone with NO CLUE could effectively accuse us of inappropriate treatment of children and break us apart against our wills.

Granted this is only a fear and POSSIBLY unlikely however in this day and age who the knows? I sometimes wonder about the cases you hear about through mainstream media. Yes some are clear cases of mistreatment...others blur the line IMO.


Can't stand the sanitised world in which we find ourselves in western culture at times.


There's my $0.02...

Great conversation to read. Hope I added rather than went off on a tangent (too much).

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Thanks for that... really good to hear your views

Getting to the other side

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
I have a lot of respect for you, Berzerker. It takes a lot of guts to be that open with your family, and I'm sure you're very close because of it. It's sad that ion this world you have to feel bad about sleeping in the same bed as your own kids, naked or not.



In this day and age where people are supposed to be more open-minded and tolerant than ever it's sad to think that this only extends so far. A parents relationship with their children is beautiful, and it only takes a few sick s to ruin that for everyone else.
EDITED_BY: nearly_all_gone (1109097738)

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
i think it's a sign of the times, and a sad one, but i also agree with the logic of how we've gotten these laws. I think people are more aware of abuse now than there be an increase. Victims are more willing to come forward and people not so quick to dismiss it.



I remember when I was at school a boy complained that the deputy head teacher had trying touching him up. In the end the boy had to leave the school because of the reaction from the other teachers/governing body, who overwhelmingly sided with the teacher and dismissed it as attention seeking. The teacher in question has since been officially arrested for pedophillia over another case - people take more notice of it these days.



When I was at school myself I remember being made to change into swimming trunks in the swimming instructor's office whilst he watched. I've seen it all before he said when I asked him to leave the room first. I didn't say anything at the time because he was a well respected teacher and I would have been the one to loose out the most from doing so. I hope that kids today may act differently.



At least now there's rules against it, if a pedophile whose gotten themselves into the position of working with kids, if they try any form of physical contact it's in breach of rules.

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Agree that we are better placed for things like 'the Christian Brothers' (famous old child abuse case in Australia) to never happen.

And that is a very positive thing. I get sick when I think about what some kids have endured at the hands of people they are supposed to be able to trust.

I honestly don't know what I'd attempt to do to a person who harmed my kids....hell any kids that I was positioned to be involved with.

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
BEZERKER i agree and am too a naked parent...lol not all the time you know what i mean. the photo thing also gets me really wound up, my youngest painted his willy green which was funny as hell. of cause the photo place didn't develop it and it wasn't on the negatives, when i asked abou tit apparently if they find something 'that could be seen as offencive' doesn't get developed. its pics like these that us parents tresure, cause its just so damn funny and in the spirit of this thread am gonna show off said little man, although this pic too has been cut off at the bottom. i still will not put up naked picks of my kids into a public forum..lol.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/Gothfrogette/myboymorgan.jpg

and my oldest
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/Gothfrogette/punksam1.jpg

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Lovely kids Ms Frogette

Getting to the other side

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
well i love 'um. hehehe thanks

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Ok Here We Go....

I am in charge, at times of over 60 kids. I am not really a touchy feely person, very much so with people I dont know...
Although a hug is good.

I have a lad with ADHD in my group. He always tries to get a hug, i think he might have been abused, but still. I sometimes want to hug him back, cos god knows what the poor lad has gone through, but I have to say no.

Lots of my 6-9 year olds are needing contact. I cant give it to them, esp when theyre crying. A shoulder hug is OK though.
Ive been CRB'd as well...

It is written into every childs brain that contact is good. We are stepping further and further away from our humanity be denying it, especially when in caveman days, we used to have large social groups where the children were regularly suckled by many mothers. It was a way of binding social ties.

I hate having to think every second when I'm with my kids about the connotations that arise when a man works with children. I really hate it, I just want to be myself and throw them around (playfully!) in games and team bonding exercises. I am forced to oversee and not participate, which for a drama teacher trying to bond and get the best reactions from the group is bad

Hey ho there we go...

ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Nice punk children your raising there GothFrogette.......see what what all that nudity does. You're successfully turning them in to anarchists



These are old and caps from a video camera but at least gives you an idea of my boys...



https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/bezerker/Jaali.bmp



https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/bezerker/Neo.bmp



And for good measure....here is Neo with a bucket on his head just before walking straight in to a box



https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/bezerker/Neobuckethead.bmp

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
awwwwwwwwwwwwww makes ya just wanna squish 'em

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005
Yep. Plenty of squishing goes on around here.





That's pretty harsh flashpoint.



I once considered getting in to teaching (albeit more highschool aged) and be someone the pupils could trust/rely on. Not sure I was cut out for it and if those are the rules (no consoling, no stopping violence) then I'd DEFINATELY not be the one for the job.

Posted: 22nd Feb 2005

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows