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Forums > Social Discussion > Why Europe is better than the U.S.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:This line is from Europe's proposed Constitution:

1. Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.

biggrin


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Fair play Xopher... I applaud and salute you and wish you the best of luck.

Let the rest of us know if there's anything we can do to help... genuinely.

As an aside, and just to add fuel to an inferno, did anyone see the programme on torture, shown on Channel 4 last night? For those who didn't, it was basically an experiment using willing (if insane) volunteers to test the methods which have been sanctioned by the US government for use in Guantanamo Bay. Heartbreaking.


Getting to the other side smile

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I missed it cause I was out playing in the cold, but it was THE office talk today frown Unfortunately, the time of screening correlated perfectly well with a report published BY the US criticising other countries for torture! It really makes me sad frown

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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dafunkymahn


member


Total posts: 54
Posted:First off, let me quote Micah 6:8 (NIV) He has showed you, O man, what is god. And what does the Lord Require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

I am not going to judge someone based on what you have said Xopher, it is not my place and I will not tell you that your judgment is in error because you are using an OT scripture to judge the actions of a person called to be Christ-like because you very well do have a point. However who are you judge them? Have your opinion, you have the right to that, but since we are bringing up scripture Mathew 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Tell me, what is or who is a Bushie? Is that anyone who happens to support Bush? So if my Grandmother who is in her 80s supports Bush, is she responsible for putting people in jail indefinitely, torturing people? Did she suppress votes in minority areas? By the way, Bush had more minority votes the second time around than the first go figure!

I strongly suggest that your Christian friends read their Bible a bit more, because Jesus talks quite often on sexual morality or immorality and unless you are ignoring everything that is not red lettered then you will read where God (who is Jesus and visa versa) despises homosexuality and considers it to be sexually immoral. Does Jesus say Homos are bad? I have never read that, however nowhere does he say that homosexuality is a lifestyle accepted by God.

If you choose not to believe the Bible that is your call, I would never dream of forcing anyone to believe or say they believe in something they do not. I have not studied to be a doctor so I should not tell a doctor how to be a doctor, so unless you have studied the Bible, perhaps you should not tell people how to be a Christian.

Written by:
but my Christian friends have pointed out that Jesus talks much more about economics (in ways that Karl Marx would find radical) than about social issues



The majority of what Jesus talks about was social issues. The treatment of others, the paying of taxes (a social issue for a Jew to pay Roman taxes not economical), working on the Sabbath these are all social issues. He does speak a lot on money as well this is true, but I would not say more let alone much more.

The Christian Right is a group of people, from many religions not necessarily only Christian who have answered the agnostic/atheistic political movement by creating one of their own. You may not agree with this, but it is their right. http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us/tserve/twenty/tkeyinfo/chr_rght.htm
br>
Written by:
The "Christian" right advocate positions that are specifically denounced in the Gospels



Could you give me some specifics please?


Written by:
Gentlemen, we are not, nor have we ever been a Christian Nation ...
The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish
or Mohammedan nation.
John Adams, second President of the USA




I can not disagree with you, if Bush thinks the US is a Christian nation he is sadly mistaken. The US was founded on principles of peace, freedom and equality, three things that are very much Christian they are also principles found in many other religions as well. The US was also founded, though maybe not officially sanctioned, on a phrase Dont tread on me! biggrin


Written by:
reasons to stay in texas or new jersey or where ever? because a place is more than its politics. Becuase of friends, family, jobs, or a bazzilion other reasons.



Vanize you are very correct there.


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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:The version of Micah 6:8 that I got in church (I sing in a church choir) was "Do justice, and love kindness, and walk humbly with your God." In my opinion the Christian right is unjust; they certainly are unkind (as anyone who actually looks at the consequences of denying gay people our fundamental rights cannot deny), and they are arrogant and hubristic (prideful, in Christian terms) in that they profess to know the will of God, and that He's on their side in all things.

I'm not a Christian, and my religion has no prohibitions against judging others. A strong belief in personal choice and freedom, coupled with prohibitions against hubristic arrogance, takes its place. (By the way, we also don't have any sin or any redemption, only karma to be balanced. Forgiveness is something humans do for human reasons; the gods do not, nor do we ask them to.)

By "the Bushies" I meant the Bush Administration and their apologists, such as the entire staff of Fox News. But I'm afraid I do think that your grandmother, and indeed everyone who voted for Bush, bears some responsibility for the torture and indefinite detention. They knew or should have known that the Bush Administration was engaged in and/or supporting those things well prior to November 2. Therefore they made (or are to be held responsible for making) a conscious choice to support evil. This falls under "deliberate sins," if my outsider's understanding of Christianity is correct.

I am not telling you (or anyone) how to be a Christian. I AM saying that the definition I usually hear doesn't apply to the so-called "Christian Right" very well. But I do have to point out that if OT is out of the picture, then you have just thrown out Leviticus, which contains the strongest anti-gay prohibitions. (But of course if Christians believed in following Leviticus instead of just enforcing it against their (gay) neighbors, they wouldn't eat oysters or catfish or wear blended fabrics, all of which Leviticus prohibits.)

In fact you'd basically be left with Paul, and if you take him you have to take some of his odder prohibitions like wearing red, as well as some of his more liberal sentiments like "when in Rome, do as the Romans do," which is really an indictment of the kind of cultural imperialism the Bush Administration is currently engaged in.

I'll get back to you on the Gospel denunciations. I don't remember them off the top.

Finally, I take "don't tread on me" to be a fine sentiment, but I'm afraid I think it includes ME. I will allow no one to tread on me, my rights, or my neighbors' rights, even if my neighbors speak Arabic and wear headscarves.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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weeleigh


weeleigh

look a rainbow!
Location: Waterford, CT

Total posts: 237
Posted:First off, it's very true Lightning. My girlfriend and I are both very religious Christians, and it makes me sad that most places where we could go to church right now, we wouldn't be able to be open about our relationship.

It does make me sad to look at what some Christians are claiming is part of our belief. Especially since I agree that Jesus was one cool, hippie dude. peace

Also, as another note, this is a really interesting site which helped a lot in terms of my own reconciling of my faith and orientation, but it really has a lot of information, and if you're interested, you should definitely check it out. It basically goes over the six main bible passages used most often against homosexuality.

http://truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html


"Happiness is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth."

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:A bit of an aside, but as this thread was about religion and Europe I thought I'd share.

Today I was reading a site that's all about preparing for the Rapture (raptureready.com). For those that don't know the Rapture is when God will whisk up all the true believers from the world and leave the rest of us to the devil's devices. And the countdowns have begun so the sites recommend you start praying real hard!

Depending upon your opinions or beliefs these sites make you pray harder, laugh, or despair. Each to their own.

Amongst lots of great advice, including one of my favourite FAQs: 'Is it all right when mad to say "gosh" or "darn"?' I found out that people believe that the antichrist will be born in the EU. I heard this before but didn't know that so many people actually seem to believe it. No, really! Do a search on Google! And also note that he'll most likely be Jewish and gay. Er, Mike, where were you born?

So, whilst all of us in the UK thought that Kilroy Silk was just being a rather narrow minded and dim witted xenophobe, it transpires that he is, in fact, fighting the good fight against evil armed only with a hastily written political manifesto and a sun bed!


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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Kilroy Silk.

Yeush. Urgh. eek


Getting to the other side smile

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: Dom

And also note that he'll most likely be Jewish and gay. Er, Mike, where were you born?




Royal Oak, Michigan. Beaumont Hospital. ubblol

This keeps popping up from time to time. The Antichrist will be a Jewish male. Gay +/-. Now...

I personally believe the antichrist will be a woman in a red dress.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Written by: LLiigghhttnniinngg

I personally believe the antichrist will be a woman in a red dress.



How do you know that the dress I bought last month is red? *goes and checks for cameras...*
AND I was born in the EU and voted for the guy who told Dubbya off for Iraq!
I'm quite surprised they've not shifted to thinking the Antichrist is an Arab yet... maybe in the next 10 years that'll happen.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:didn't nostradamus say something about a man in a blue turban being anti-christish?

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Zauberdach


Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 199
Posted:hmmm.... somebody mentioned the whole weight thing. That's something I was just thinking about. One of my friends just set me some pictures of his American buddies and I was thinking 7 out of 10 of them were what I'd call clinically damaging their health by being wayyyyy over weight.

I think in Europe, picking numbers out of the air, in a similar photo of 10 people perhaps one would be seriously over-weight.

This is probably because our food is more expensive and comes in far small portions, but then this is helping our health....

Also I think, technically, we can include Canada as part of Europe rather than the U.S.


IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:There was a sharp rise in obesity in America after the US Department of Agriculture published the "Food Pyramid" in the late 80s or early 90s. It recommended eating more grain and pasta than anything else, by far.

Note this was NOT the US Department of Health. The USDA was doing its job - making sure that all that American grain got sold for the best price - even though they undermined the health of the American people severely by so doing.

Now, of course, we know two things: 1) too many carbs make you fat (and, if you're me, miserable and unpleasant) and 2) don't listen to the USDA - they are not your friends or the friends of good health.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Zauberdach


Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 199
Posted:wow, that's amazingly shallow thinking by the American Government... confused

IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Not so much shallow as narrow and cynical. The USDA has its mandate, and it fulfilled it. The bastids.

"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I recently found an article saying that in lots of countries there's a strong correlation between people getting nearly an hour less sleep on average than they used to and people getting fatter. Apparently two hormones get dysregulated when you don't sleep enough so you feel more hungry and you don't feel full when you should... can't find the article anymore, otherwise I'd tell you the names. The US seem to be the country where people have the biggest difference in how many hours per night they sleep compared to about 50 years ago, and lots of people don't reach the threshold hours sleep/night that is recommended.
I like this explanation far more than the carbs-one wink Though they're probably somewhat synergetic.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Yeah, people who eat a lot of carbs don't sleep well, either. And if you're on a sugar high you can have trouble sleeping.

Also, there's a vicious circle there, because obese people have more of a tendency to sleep apnia and snoring, both of which cut down the efficiency of sleep.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Zauberdach


Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 199
Posted:Ok this isn't actually related but I've run out of fat things to talk about.

Ever sice a child I've always had a cup of tea with lots of sugar before going to bed. It has always helped me sleep. Now someone a mentioned this too recently pointed out that this was completely wierd. That tea should wake you up. I think this is a classic case of psychological triggers overiding physiological stimulus. It's like Pavlovs dogs but with cups of tea. I wonder if I smell tea at around bedtime if it would make me sleepy?


IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:Written by: bonzai

Ever sice a child I've always had a cup of tea with lots of sugar before going to bed. It has always helped me sleep. Now someone a mentioned this too recently pointed out that this was completely wierd. That tea should wake you up. I think this is a classic case of psychological triggers overiding physiological stimulus.



offtopic

i don't drink tea or coffee, never did. but on very rare occasions when fighting insomnia, a cup of coffee in the middle of the night will put me to sleep....

but i'm an oddball ubbloco


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Zauberdach


Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 199
Posted:ha haaaa! I knew I wasn't the only one smile

IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:From what I know about tea, it depends on how long you leave the teabag/leaves in the water. If it's short it's supposed to wake you up, and if it's long (like 5 mins or so) apparently it doesn't... I couldn't say if that works or not though since I can have as much caffeine as I want and still sleep, unless it's early in the morning and I've had no food, then it makes me nervous.

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:The caffeine in tea peaks at around 4 minutes brewing time. Longer than that and the tannins in the tea start breaking down the caffeine. If you brew it from boiling hot to stone cold, you can use it to make leather, but it won't have enough caffeine to make a difference. If it keeps you awake it's because the tannic acid is eating a hole in your stomach!

"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)

There was a sharp rise in obesity in America after the US Department of Agriculture published the "Food Pyramid" in the late 80s or early 90s. It recommended eating more grain and pasta than anything else, by far.



And since when did Americans follow any dietary guideline put out by the USDA or DoA?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:We did. I changed my diet drastically based on that pyramid. And gained weight like crazy. So did a lot of my friends.

"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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