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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:I've been hunting around the forums for info on what sorts of things are helpfully fire resistant, but I've got a few questions still. (not that I'm going to be using any fire myself for a loooong time, just starting out)

Hair seems to be a difficulty sometimes for those working with fire. Wetting it only works for so long, and wet cloth is apparently not a good option with the risk of steam burns. I keep remembering the shots of Rammstein concerts I've seen-- they always have themselves slathered in some kind of fire-resistant goop that actually looks pretty nifty and spiky in their hair. What IS that stuff, and is there some form of it that's easy to get / nontoxic?


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:...........many people seem to think that vasoline is fire resistant but in fact any petrol derived chem. is most def. not......

theres supposedly 2 things that help but dont ask me where to find them...i havnt been able to...

a burn cream called "barrier cream" for skin and whatnot...

for clothing biofax 2000

neither have i been able to find but who knows...you might have more luck


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Flame resistant gel isnt really necessary when spinning fire. Its overkill really. Of course, you dont want to burn your hair but its harder to do than it may sound. Oddly enough, of all the fire spinners on this site, I dont think any of them are bald due to fire related accidents. Tieing your hair up/wetting it/covering it is more precaution than is really required.

I remember the Burning Man decompression party in NY... My second spin on stage wasnt going too well, just wasnt feeling it. My hair wasnt covered or protected in any way and somehow, I went and clocked myself right in the side of the head with a brightly burning wick. Sure enough, I had a nice size patch of burnt hair on the side of my head... But in the end it wasnt really too noticable and looked just fine when I got my hair cut the next week.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:Still curious as to what it is, it looks pretty nifty-- although if it's toxic it's not worth it, and it probably wouldn't be great on long hair.

Just what sorts of substances ARE fire-resistant? If it's oil-based in any way (like you say about vaseline), it's outright flammable. If it's water based it'll dry up pretty quick and may cause steam burns anyway.

What else is there?? I can't think of any other type of substance that's liquid at room temperature (cept mercury, which doesn't even remotely qualify)


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:oil as in petrol...what about a lotion??
or maybe the guy was just plain greasy...


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:Lotions are primarily made of oil.

Grease also = oil.

Whatever goo the Rammstein guys is using is white-- sometimes it looks almost bluish or silver. It's VERY flame-resistant, those people douse themselves in crazy pyrotechnics for hours.


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:what about a metal paste??? like a heat reflective paste....like how we use metal tape on our staff to ensure that the tips dont burn

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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fiyr
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

newbie
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 6
Posted:I know what you are talking about.

They've used this stuff for ages. It's called "Zel Gel", named after it's creator, Gary Zeller.

http://www.zeller-int.com
br>
-Brian


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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:WOW is that stuff ever obscure... for something that's won an academy award it sure is practically nonexistent. There's only that one page of info and it doesn't say what's in it. Just that it's water-based and comes in liquid and solid forms. Wonder what the heck it really is.

How'd you hear about it?


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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fiyr
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

newbie
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 6
Posted:It's hard to find mostly because they don't want to sell it to just anyone. Imagine the kinds of havoc that would ensue if teenagers across america got a hold of this stuff. People would be unsuccessfully trying to do full body burns like in the movies, and ending up hospitalized. I think to buy it from Zeller, you have to sign a disclaimer. It apparently comes in 2 or 5 gallon buckets.

I spend about 30 minutes using Google to search for it. There's some obscure reference to "Zel Jel" but I think it's also known as "Stunt Gel". Make sure you stay away from "Fire Gel", as I believe the words "Fire Gel" are now used to describe a highly flammable Fire Gel used in candles and other applications.

I've seen this stuff when watching behind-the-scenes documentaries on stunt work. Usually you see it used not only for the hair, but the whole burn stunt suit is soaked in this stuff before a stunt.

-Brian


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Fire Gel for spinners can actually cause more harm than good.
It causes the skin to be slippery, and leads to a false sense of security. It still warms up and you can still be burned, which is why it is usually slathered over kevlar clothing (such as the types stunt men/race car drivers wear).

These are usually only available to licensed Pyrotechnics anyway.

Biofax and other dips are just that. They are theatrical or upholstery dips that are used for curtains and carpets.
www.theaterhouse.com sells them. Again, they tend to be overkill for those who do not spin often or are not professional.

They leave a white-ish film on fabric, and everytime the fabric is washed it must be redipped, so it is not cost effective for the backyard spinner.

In the HoP articles there is one about fabrics and their burn times, and relative safety. Check it out.
Stick to heavy-ish natural materials and do not put on lotions, sunscreens, bugsprays, etc. before spinning.

As for hair, I have been doing this for years. I have always had longish hair and I have never done anything but pull it back and make sure it is damp (not soaked, just damp). I don't even cover my head.

I appreciate your level of concern though. smile

Hope this helps!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:so...what about barrier cream?

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Written by: darkpoet

so...what about barrier cream?



Same effect as the gel. It is overkill and in the end doesn't prevent burns.

I knew someone who used a barrier cream once, it's base was wax...it melted. The burn made a pretty pattern on his chest but he said hot showers were a literal pain for awhile.

Be careful and sensible. That is your *best* protection.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia

Total posts: 475
Posted:

before i start gnarly i am not taking a shot at you so dont take this wrong.

Most of the people who throw up a crap and go overboard about safety are people who either havent spun fire yet or are still relatively un-experianced in it.

After a while you realise that as long as you are sensible. Fire poi, Staff, Meteor and various other toys are quite safe as long as you know what the hell to do if the unlucky event of clothing catching fire does happen.

really all you need to stay safe while spinning is the proper extinguishing materials (a small fire extinguisher and fire blanket)
and the correct type of clothes. Throw a hat on your head (i prefer a jamaican style tam) and i predict you will have a safe and long happy life spinning your favourite fire toy. If you go too far worrying about safety your just not going to have any fun.

Now i am just as much as a safety nazi as your regular pele.
But i remember that poi and staff are about one thing. good safe fun

oh yeah. and dont fire breath. it kills people


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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Carisa


stranger


Total posts: 1
Posted:I would actually not use Barrier Cream in combination with fire.

The SDS Sheet for Barrier Cream states "Hazardous decomposition products: If this product is involved in a fire, toxic products of combustion could be liberated. Use selfcontained breathing equipment anduse fire fighting equipment to suit the source of the fire."

http://www.e-hygienesystems.com/coshh/sheets/Barrier%20Cream.pdf


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