Forums > Social Discussion > Drugs, ethics, spinners, jugglers!

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brodieman
brodieman

old hand
Location: london
Member Since: 11th Jul 2003
Total posts: 1024
Posted:
Okay, was reading the metro today, one of the articles was about a anti Cocaine drive within the middle classes, One of the main facts is that in colombia in the last couple of years, 5 000 or much more people have been killed in connection to coke. and it really made me think.

I have notised the spinning, raving, clubbing and young culture (and i can only comment on the uk) is very drug fuelled, but the same people promote, peace such as the strong out cry against the war in iraq, preservation of life such as veggies and vegans ie. if you look at the veggie arguement thread this holds some really strong political points of vies ie meat eaters being murderers etc!

Many people here boycot Mc donalds, Starbucks even Disney for their anti ethical behaviours.
But i have seen many of the same using some sort of stimulents ie coke etc.
Many people now see canabis as socially acceptable (my self included) but from what i have read about, people are practically inslaved in someplaces to cultivate it but yet we see this as okay?
The more i read the more it upsets me, children in afganistan used to traffic heroin. Babys stomaches filled with packets of narcs....:(

So if we really care about the world enough to protest against war animal cruelty, to boycot companys that polute the atmosphere, should we as a caring culture not boycot drugs mabie including canabis too?
soo many vunrable people in third world countrys, men-fathers, women- mothers kids-babys, are used and murdered by people that are driven by money and power, but yet we buy their goods and give them even more power and the same time we protest and boycot.

Do we choose to forget?

Thoughts?
frown


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Bram
member
Location: Vansterdam, playing with my Bu...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 28
Posted:sorry to hijack, but Josh, if u live where I am guessing you livee (Netherlands) then magic mushrooms, as well as Ayahuasca and Peyote (as well as other mescaline containing cacti) are sold openly in smart shops because they are spposed to make you smarter when you used in a proper fashion? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Its 4:19, do you know where your lighter is?

Never trust someone who says never trust a hippy!!!

When you do business with a Christian, get it in writing.

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Written by: Sprout

sorry to hijack, but Josh, if u live where I am guessing you livee (Netherlands) then magic mushrooms, as well as Ayahuasca and Peyote (as well as other mescaline containing cacti) are sold openly in smart shops because they are spposed to make you smarter when you used in a proper fashion? Please correct me if I am wrong.



wrong. He's from a 'progressive' state in Australia. I'm also from Australia, but some of those laws don't apply in the state I reside. We are allowed to grow San Pedro, but the extraction process is illegal. We are not permitted to grow marijuana. Can't remember the laws on schrooms, but I think it's illegal to cultivate them. Should look it up, really.

/end hijack.


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:
Here is a little anecdote from the dance world that made me think a bit more deeply about this topic.

{quote} Early in my dancing years, a friend of mine recounted an anecdote that poignantly encapsulates the spirit of salsa. At that time I was having trouble keeping rhythm because my steps were too big.

Salsa was described to me as being originally a slave's dance. They couldn't take large steps because of the short chains between their ankles that prevented them from running very far. So in the evenings when they came together to dance, they did the only thing they could do to keep the dance interesting - they increased the speed of the rhythm.

I was appalled. Until it was explained that we weren't parodying their misfortune, but celebrating a phenomenon that made great suffering bearable. For a slave, dance was a light in a very bleak existence.{quote}

(From the very generous people at the UK Salsa & Merengue Society, Sheffield.)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:on my first trip to camaiore in january i was very apauled buy the heavy usage of heroin by children the around the age of 14 and above.

there there are no nightclubs, no where to go dancing etcetera, children just mill around and get battered in what ever way possible and the social drug there is to smoke heroin, a lot also inject.

I wonder if those children will become educated enough in what they are doing to themselves, their minds and bodies and also to where those drugs come from and how many people die in the supply of those drugs.

Maybe these children will see juggling when im there on a permenent basis and will be able to find some thing like that more constructive for their time and i would be happy to give up my time to teach them in hope that they come to realise what they have been doing could result in another count in the death toll involved in world of drugs.



Drugs.... not a life style i wish to live out again, not in this life.



And as for weed being a recreational drug?, when your so battered from smoking an 8th.. the social conversations arn't exactly stimulating!... id rather have a conversation then sit monged out nodding in agreement with some one talking utter shite at me.





nice post brodie. hug


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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quiet
quiet

analytic
Location: bristol
Member Since: 15th Sep 2004
Total posts: 503
Posted:Some points which people have missed:

1. It's [censored] hard to be perfectly ethical. This shouldn't stop you from a) being as ethical as you can, and b) pointing out where people are going wrong, protesting, etc. Just because Jesus ate meat doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to what he's got to say. (contentious example. but you get the point)

2. There is a massive difference between a) deaths due to coke in columbia, and b) poor work conditions of people growing weed in morocco. In the first case, by buying coke you're implicating yourself in other people's deaths, and ceasing to buy the coke removes a prime cause (or part of the cause) of the conflict which kills them. In the second case, you may be supporting poor work conditions; but the alternative is for these people to go without food. Think about it: if your only way of making money was to grow and sell hash, would you want some high-minded western boycott of your product? There's a critical distinction between weed and coffee in relation to this: you can get fairtrade coffee, you can't get fairtrade weed. unless you grow it yrself smile

3. i know this is stating the obvious, but drugs only become problematic when they're done to excess (i think this is analytic: and maybe it's impossible to do smack recreationally without doing it excessively, i dunno). so sure, getting properly mashed is often a waste of time, and not a lifestyle i'd opt for. so moderate drug use is ok. the trouble is that as soon as you've gotten a handle on moderate drug use, excessive drug use starts to be waaaay to tempting.

[and three years of it made me very ill. but i suppose that's to be expected. and booze has a lot to answer for]

e


ture na sig

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:

Written by: pk ....:


on my first trip to camaiore in january i was very apauled buy the heavy usage of heroin by children the around the age of 14 and above.those drugs....

Maybe these children will see juggling when im there on a permenent basis and will be able to find some thing like that more constructive for their time and i would be happy to give up my time to teach them ...









Maybe you should try and get into some youth work when you move over there. Lots of potential for bringing unicycling into it as well (did the first session of my community unicycling project this Tuesday, it went well).



I think with your skills and life experience you'd be pretty good at it.





Written by: pk ....:






And as for weed being a recreational drug?......... id rather have a conversation then sit monged out nodding in agreement with some one talking utter shite at me.









That brought back memories of my student years smile



As far as I'm concerned that's a pretty accurate summing up of marijuana.



Thing about hash is that, if people just did it for a while and quit it when it loses its point, it'd be OK.



For some reason though, it tends to drag on for years and years, and becomes just a really entrenched habit.



Having said that, I pretty much feel the same about all drugs now, including booze and cigarettes.



Written by: v quiet




2. .........Think about it: if your only way of making money was to grow and sell hash, would you want some high-minded western boycott of your product?





in response to your second point; my feeling is that if we in the west got over our substance use (tobacco, hash, booze, heroin etc), peasants everywhere would benefit purely because the west would quite simply start to get it's act together for once, and also be able to set a genuine example to the rest of the world based on something other than financial/technical superiority.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

in response to your second point; my feeling is that if we in the west got over our substance use (tobacco, hash, booze, heroin etc), peasants everywhere would benefit purely because the west would quite simply start to get it's act together for once, and also be able to set a genuine example to the rest of the world based on something other than financial/technical superiority.



Im not sure how these peasants are going to benefit from us setting a higher moral standard. Or do you mean that if all the stoners get off their asses and become productive members of society that something will finally be done to release the peasants from poverty and the need to grow weed and coca? I dont doubt that they would find another way to survive if the drugs market suddenly dried up. I honestly dont know what though.

Written by:

2. There is a massive difference between a) deaths due to coke in columbia, and b) poor work conditions of people growing weed in morocco. In the first case, by buying coke you're implicating yourself in other people's deaths, and ceasing to buy the coke removes a prime cause (or part of the cause) of the conflict which kills them



So peasants growing coca for food are bad and peasants growing weed are ok?

I think its a bit naive to think that the people importing our weed are not just as dangerous as the people importing our coke. I dont think howard marks is in the game anymore.

Its a known fact that in ireland the drugs trade is controlled significantly by subversives and terrorist organisations.


Love is the law.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: ado-p

Or do you mean that if all the stoners get off their asses and become productive members of society that something will finally be done to release the peasants from poverty and the need to grow weed and coca?



Hrmmm... or maybe another way of saying that is...

"If the politically active liberals gave the same level of critique to the drugs that they use that they ALREADY GIVE to the fast food they eat, drinks that they drink or clothes they wear, they could make a difference in that area as well."

*Shrugs* I dunno, but it's an interesting question.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:your right, and i shouldnt post on bad days (two more weeks of no spinning)

where does it go from there though

people are not going to stop smokin it up

make it legal?

nestle would just start buying marijuana fields

confused


Love is the law.

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:so would you rather have taxable mega-corparations who have to disclose things like the ingredients of the things they are selling you growing your weed (and at least having to report how much money they used to buy off a president), or some drug lord earning just as much or more off your from it and who is completely unaccountable to anyone at all?



lessor of two evils - make it legal, make it taxable, bring the pot economy above board.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:its not a question of which i'd rather

i'd rather it was fair trade.

all im saying that one way or the other, as a politically active liberal who speaks out againts the fast food/coffee etc mega industrys... it wouldnt take long for recreational drugs to become a part of that system. My own values would still require me to speak out against the same corporations.

I think its irony.

i really dont eat mc donalds, but i wouldnt give up smoking.


Love is the law.

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:stoner wink

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:hippy smile

Love is the law.

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:irish people smile

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:American smile

Getting to the other side smile

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:earthling smile

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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babajaga
babajaga

old hand
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Since: 25th Aug 2004
Total posts: 863
Posted:umm grouphug

What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Muh! tongue

hug for babjaga


Getting to the other side smile

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