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Page: 123
Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:The topic of Poi becoming mainstream, a form of competition or the connection between Poi and money seems to concern spinners. On the other hand some are dreaming of Poi becoming a recognised dance/art or even an olympic discipline.

My question: Where do you see Poi in the Future and what do you think would be the positive/negative characteristics of it?!?

Just some brainstorming . . .


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:So I take it we won't be seeing any " Who Makes Better Poi, Nike or Addidas?" threads anytime in the near future.

But I think PoiBox was more thinking along the terms of poi spinning in general, not specifically with fire. I don't know about you guys,,,but I figure only 5% ( maybe less) of my poi spinning is done with fire. It's winter in this part of the world, and we do try to get together once a week and practice with fire, but lately we've been rained out alot.

We're hosting a weekly practice session, indoors and nobody's showing up,hence my whiny post earlier. I know of at least 30 spinners in this city of 300 000 and I'm at a loss to figure out why. I've heard the " I don't want to pay five dollars......" excuse a few times, but hey, we do have to rent the room.

Any estimates as to what percentage of people start out learning poi, but quit within a month,,,six months? I think maybe 5% stay with it and as to that estimate concerning the number of spinners worldwide, I too think it's way off, way too low of the 30 spinners I mentioned above, I'm the only one on this site. PoiBox,,,how many Vancouverites on this site?

And Thor, I was one of those who lit up only knowing five moves, only I wasn't a kid, I was 40 and I feel you summed it up perfectly about confidence. I sure had fun doing the three beat weave and butterfly for a whole burn, so much fun that I practiced all the next day. I too never messed up with fire, I was thinking about what I was doing, so much that even forgot that I'd been sitting in a beach bar all evening.

I like the Riverdance meets Stomp with poi idea, if only I could talk my wife into moving to England........


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devkev
devkev

discoverer of phat and poigling
Location: North London.. England
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 292
Posted:go on then... have a chat with her and tell her how lovely it is here... when its not raining and grey... which is for about a week each year... ahem... anyway

With gettin more people to your indoor spinning space... maby set up some black lights (uv) and get some glowie stuff.. i would pay 5 dollars to go and play..

and maby i could convince my girl to come to canada... i here its beautifull... smile


its all about the fun fun fun fun and more fun...

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:or there's this crazy company in scotland.... wink

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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devkev
devkev

discoverer of phat and poigling
Location: North London.. England
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 292
Posted:thats very true... hows your irish dancing rob????

its all about the fun fun fun fun and more fun...

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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:I'm one of the only spinners in Dorking as I was introduced to it by a friend in Plymouth and so far I've taught a few friends things one bought a set but never uses them and the others are amazed and convinced they want to do it one minute... and lose interest as soon as they realise its not as easy as it looks!

So... to sum up.. I dont think it will become a craze and even if it does i'll stick with it!! biggrin


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Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:OK, many different ideas hopefully its not getting to mixed up (what actually would be original HOP style)

First of all: MAINSTREAM is a highly stigmatized word so its difficult to use it unbiassed...

Written by:
Which leads me to the point that the larger the fire community grows, the more it has to self regulate.



. . . tough thought. Who will make up the rules and who will control them?!? Different people have different standards and capabilities.

Written by:
now granted with it becoming more popular there will be problems, like the afore mentioned twits that will not take safty into consideration


I dont think there will be more problems - some spinners are nice and intelligent and some "not so" - like with everything else. To bigger community wouldnt change that imo, but a bigger fire community could create a bigger awareness of the dangers which would be a nice thing.

Written by:
You know, for at least the last 3 years or so that I've been on this site people have been talking about how poi is becoming more and more mainstream.

But, you know, not really that I've noticed


I have seen some parts of the community and got some ideas about its development. And I have met some spinners who are quite into it and I would say that the possibilities of Poi are just developing - which direction I dont really know (And to get some input I started this thread)

Written by:
But if a craze does take up, it will be just the same as every other craze, which is basically a company does what ever it can to get kids to buy their stuff, prices will go up, quality will go down and as with any craze, it will pretty much revert to what we have today,


a.) I dont think this can really happen to Poi. Worse Quality than Dog-Tennisballs in Old-Socks it cant get wink
b.) It is our "responisbility" to avoid it if we love this art ?!?

Written by:
To be honest, i like poi how it is now, with still only a few people who do it (few as in compared to the population of the world) I think its great that we can do soemthing that so many people cant or have even heard of


Written by:
If alot of people start spinning it will lose some of the novelty which does appeal to me


And I would consider ourselves extremely lucky in this posititon - e.g. show people Poi for the first time is always great, but this will definitely change. And it can change to something even better imo ... which would be our job.

Written by:
Sure some people would end up loving it and become life long poi people. On the other hand there would be alot of idiots learning to spin who don't respect what we do especially when it comes to spinning fire


If they are idiots and they dont respect what you are doing - dont care about them. If they burn themselves - theyll stop it. If they burn others (and so far I havent heard from a bad Poispinning accident but some WILL happen) they will be in trouble, not you. I have been a careless gasoline spinner myself, and falling in love with Poi it changed my attitude towards it. And so did most of the Poi lovers I know. All we can do is try to promote a sane approach, nothing more, the rest is up to the individual.

Written by:
I don't think poi should be competetive either. I feel its more of an art and should be used to entertain and for your own personal growth. Spinning poi just to beat people in comptetion doesn't sound right to me.



Shouldnt be - probably. Will be/ is already - certainly. Its a human thing to compare and only the wise know how to appretiate the beauty of everything hug

Written by:
I guess that's why some people do have their opinions about not teaching just anyone poi, and trying to keep it a selective art


IMO misleading approach. A "selective art" - Makes me shudder when I think about it.

Written by:
I find it just this side of impossible to find anyone to teach me, or it's horrifically expensive,, but that's the commercial aspect of it,,,, such is life


I am on beautiful Saltspring at the moment, and Vancouver isnt to far away - Viva la Canada

beerchug to Thor - nicely said

Written by:
many don't realise how hard it is to learn & then don't practice at all & have quit a month later


You dont have to learn/practice at all.
All you have to do is play, but it takes some practice to learn that wink

Written by:
I think maybe 5% stay with it


The bad news - you cant quit. Once you played an instrument for example you will always have the idea within you and probably pick it up at a later point in time

Written by:
PoiBox,,,how many Vancouverites on this site?


To be honest - no idea. But I guess only a very few.

Written by:
and maby i could convince my girl to come to canada... i here its beautifull...


Do it! Canada (or what I have seen of this tiny country) definitely IS beautiful ubblove

And to end with a quote Ill follow the words of devkev
Written by:
keep playing, sharing and inspiring



To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:Wow, a really nicely written post there! But I can't resist adding my tuppence...

Poi is somthing that everyone wants to learn because it looks cool. I find it great exercise and very relaxing, and even have short socks for practising indoors. I still remember the first few weeks though, learning the weave in the park and just not caring about looking like a muppet cos I knew that if I practised I would get past the phase of hitting myself in the nuts and get to enjoy the ability to bend the poi to my will: when I listen to music poi is a form of expression of what I'm hearing, and I like to have as much variety as the music I listen to.
However, many people don't have the will to get past the initial phase of looking like a muppet while they're practising. Either they get put off by too many bruises, or they feel selfconscious about practising in public. Some people just don't have the dedication to learn as has already been stated. At the start of this term I was teaching the basics to about 10 people: now only 2 of them still turn up and only one of them with any regularity. But if you want to make any real fast progress with poi you *have* to practise. A lot. just like any other skill involving co-ordination.
I think what will stop poi from becoming mainstream is that although it does look cool, not many people have the patience to keep practising and building on what they know. The best example was at a juggling club at another uni I went to. This one guy picked up my poi, seemed really keen to learn.... until he hit himself in the balls. Then he lost interest shrug wink what can you do? when i hit myself I just want to learn better so I do it less often. The one thing that's good about poi, is that you can practise anywhere there's enough space, as long as you don't mind the weather!
Oops, went a bit long there.... rolleyes


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Orbit
Orbit

enthusiast

Member Since: 17th Dec 2003
Total posts: 270
Posted:Great thread! I don't think we really have any control over whether it becomes a big fad or not... so why worry about it? I know many people who think that this would be a good thing and are working towards it. As you may recall, Zuni poi were sold in just about every toy store in America 5 years ago... but it never caught on.

I for one would like to see it grow more, but not become an out-of-control fad. I think it would be nice if we could have a big enough community that people accept fire spinning, for instance, the way they accept skateboarding and surfing. It's just a matter of setting up common-sense rules that will work for everyone involved.

A lot of people have mentioned that most people never learn more than the basic tricks. Those people, though, still understand at least some aspect of poi, and probably appreciate how much skill/practice it takes to get good. So rather than look down on them, you should really embrace them as your biggest allies.

If we do head in the direction of competitions, I certainly hope we can develop a culture of cooperative, friendly competition rather than back-stabbing. Frankly I think most good spinners can watch a move and learn it themselves pretty quickly, so being secretive about your amazing trick is kind of counter-productive. I feel there's no hope of it ever going Olympic, thank goodness, because that would involve an international governing body, and all sorts of ridiculous rules and standards, when we should just be spinning and enjoying ourselves.

See the spinning magazine thread for more of my random thoughts.

Orbit


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nearly_all_gone
nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2004
Total posts: 1626
Posted:Personally, I'm not really keen on the concept of competitive spinning.. it just seems a bit empty and pointless like any kind of art competition. Some things will be great to some, rubbish to others.

I'm all for becoming more wide-spread and popular though, I think I kind of rode into it on the start of this new wave so I haven't really got any right to comment!


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:It will never become out of control. Its simple; it takes a long time to get real good and alot of people give up. I know tons of good spinners who gave up.

Just take a look at the board, alot of the old school guys dont even post any more, it just get stale when uv been doing it for 10+years. Thats why i say "its not how good you are, its how long you can stay in the game"

Personally i think people will come and go, its a kids game, the young guys own.


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Orbit
Orbit

enthusiast

Member Since: 17th Dec 2003
Total posts: 270
Posted:It's much easier these days to learn moves quickly though... there are more resources out there these days -- especially more inspirational videos with interesting styles and moves. I know tons of youngsters who've learned in a few months what took me years to learn. But then those are the fanatical ones that practice ALL the time to get to that point (or those that have a natural talent for it).

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:*Bump for the hard of searching*

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:kiss

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misscorinthian
misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 27th Sep 2005
Total posts: 784
Posted:Well yeah. That's what I meant really. Thanks UCOF smile

XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Hmm? I would say poi IS mainstream, the same way gymnastics is. Not many people do it but plenty still do, and no matter what it will allways look hella wicked and will be everyones regret for not doing when they where younger...or is that just me? lol



I would love to see poi in the olympics, or at elast be a recognised sport, we need something interesting and new, instead of all the other generic boring time wasting sports such as football. BLEH!


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Sporky
Sporky

addict
Location: Glasgow
Member Since: 25th Jul 2005
Total posts: 663
Posted:the future of poi is... "LASER" POI!!!!!!! Frickin evil poi that will floor the audience literally by cutting them into tiny little pieces... ubbloco wink

Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:Poi in the olympics, oh god no, please no

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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misscorinthian
misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 27th Sep 2005
Total posts: 784
Posted:Well me mam always says "ooh it's like that thing they do with ribbons in gymnastics" when she sees me do poi....although the other day she said "oh my god are you okay?" as I whacked myself square in the eyes...grrr btb...grr....so anyway, gymnastics is in the olympics so maybe you could say poi is sorta in the olympics already in a rather obscure way.....no? shrug

XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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SunnySammy
SunnySammy

Watching the Sky
Location: Cambridge(ish)/Bath Spa Uni
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2005
Total posts: 453
Posted:ooooh! know how that feels!
i hope they do like one-off workshops in primary schools more often. I remember lovin it, but i only ever got to do 1!!! it makes school more fun when you get one-off stuff.


sunny
I jumped into the river, what did i see?
Black-eyed angels swam with me. wink

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misscorinthian
misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 27th Sep 2005
Total posts: 784
Posted:You had a school workshop on poi??

XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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The Misguided Oracle
The Misguided Oracle

the floor is a sea of tigers...
Location: Brisvegas
Member Since: 31st Aug 2005
Total posts: 404
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men

i hope that poi extends into schools as i think it would be great for kids for getting better hand eye coordination

that's what computer games are for smile


"My body is a well tuned machine... It just needs a competent driver." - ?

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SunnySammy
SunnySammy

Watching the Sky
Location: Cambridge(ish)/Bath Spa Uni
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2005
Total posts: 453
Posted:twas on circus arts in general but there was a bit of staff and poi put in, primary school so its was at least 8 years ago, but was a great day! biggrin
(of what i can remember anyway)


sunny
I jumped into the river, what did i see?
Black-eyed angels swam with me. wink

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misscorinthian
misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 27th Sep 2005
Total posts: 784
Posted:You had a school workshop on circus arts with a bit of staff and poi??!!
*huff* I aint jealous. But then, If they had done that at my school I prob wouldn't have done it on principle...going back to the fashion/craze thing as well as being told what to do..

The question is, where is the line between beneficial expansion of the art form, and a new craze..because it seems although people are divided on this topic as a whole, there is unity in the view that a degree of expansion is good, and yet a fashion or phase is bad....

Ark at me, when I read that out loud I sound right poshe!


XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I don't know. I think the "craze" phase of inflationary expansion is over.

I think it's more onto a "steady growth" phase now.

I think that some people who discover poi feel that it should be "nostra cosa," and that only "certain types" of people should do it. Whether it should only be a hippie thing or a raver thing or whatever...

We need to remember that the Maori have been doing poi for hundreds, maybe thousands of years and that to them, we are all a bunch of fresh-faced newcomers who practice an art that is nothing like what they do.

We also need to remember that all of us started somewhere and that no matter how senior we might be at poi spinning, there is always someone senior to us.

Poi is an art. It is not a competition in "funkier than thou."


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:hmmm...

There's been a lot of discussion on gs.c about this.

Mainly that some poi/glowstringers/glowstickers go off thinking that it should be okay to promote it in a bboy fashion. We had some Texans leave glowsticking.com to start their own site where they turned poi with glowsticks into something antagonistic and showy- dance battling other people at clubs and parties, which is the opposite of the rave scene promotes. There was an explosion of guys putting glowsticks on strings and coming up with crazier and crazier displays of flexibility and timing. The webforums they had was illegible to me as it was all flames and 1337speak, people calling other people out to fight or who was the better spinner.

And after a year of this, they all basically quit. Clubs in San Antonio erupted in brawls. Spinners got thrown out of clubs. Their spinning was all for flash and show. Most of them didn't actually have the control for fire poi. Spinning poi for them wasn't "fun" anymore. So they moved into other showy things like bboying itself, and whatever egotistical little kids use to compare their epenis and squabble online.

And they were really good. I remembered a lot of people on HoP were impressed by TT2 and other texas glowstringer videos, but I thought how it was a shame that HoPers were just feeding their e-penis/egos. I posted about it and got repremanded by Josh for thread-jacking.

But I think it is IMPORTANT to learn something from this, and how it can be prevented. Poi should never emphasize flash and "coolness" over beauty and grace and love of the art. And that's why I'm here on HoP.

And now the glowstick poi scene in texas is all but dead with a few left. Really a shame.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:-To discover, explore and provide world of Poi

-To fillfull universal picture of Poi;

-To set place for disscussions;

-To serve and solve situations;

-To organise and share our love;



Poi is life,



light,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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pablito
pablito

member
Location: liverpool
Member Since: 8th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6
Posted:man that is so elequently put.
i dont want to compete i want to learn and teach. make that human bond of sharing with people. see the joy in peoples faces when they master new tricks. with competition we would just loose community.

"you show me yours and I'll show you mine"


pablito_tours can not be held responsible for any loss or damage to neurons.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:The true future of poi is so obvious, I'm amazed no-one has brought it up yet...

Poi will become longer, and less flexible, finally mutating into a long pole, with wick on each end.

At which point, they will have reached the perfect evolutionary point, a STAFF angel angel


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:clap clap clap clap

for charles!

ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Angel_Ali
Angel_Ali

newbie
Location: Hampshire
Member Since: 16th Dec 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:Written by: Facelessjoker

^ditto.
purely coz i hated school and being forced to learn topics i hated.
Learning in school tends to have a negative light seeing as alot of kids would rather being doing something else.



I disagree!

I run after school clubs and I do workshops within the national curriculum. On the whole kids love having someone knowlegable about their art to come along and share it with them.

I think that the problem with learning any art in school is that quite often a teacher with very little knowlege of dance/drama/poi learns the basics and then attempts to teach children. Bless them for trying but art is also about passion and if they do not have the passion or enough knowlege this can put the children off.

The importaint thing is if poi is introduced to schools it needs to be as an extra curricular option and the only people teaching it should be the people who know what they are doing.

IMHO

smile Ali angel


As Frankenfurter said "Don't Dream It Be It"

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